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  1. #1
    Was wondering what you guys do on static major 7th chords?

    I know what to do on min7, dom7, min7b5, dim7 ect

    But on major chords I'm lost it either sounds too hokey or too minor sounding and I'm especially talking about chord melody playing if I have a backing I can come up with goodish lines but if it's just solo guitar I just can't get a sound I like

    So was wondering what devices and approaches you guys take

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    On static Maj7 chords I'm usually thinking lydian. Paired triads can get you to a lot of cool sounds. 2 that I use a lot are the Maj 2 over 1 and the Maj 6 over 1. In C that would be a major D triad paired with C, and an A major triad paired with C. The maj 6 triad gives you a b9 which is pretty spicy, but the triad gives it some context and grounds it a bit.

    Another idea I like is playing some different pentatonics over top of it. A common one is the Major pentatonic based on the 5. The maj pentatonic based off of the 2 sounds pretty good as well.

    Lydian augmented is fairly common as well.

    One of my favorite sax players has some great tutorials of some pretty out there ideas. Super super melodic though. Here's one of em

    Lesson 11: Major b9, b13 - mattotto.org

  4. #3

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    Ah the infamous jazz kryptonite

    Here’s a good one - Blues on the third.

    So C major, play Em blues

  5. #4

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    Oh, chords!

    how about these?

    Soloing over static major 7th chords-06207291-deb8-4d0b-a15a-5d0f14438a6d-jpg

  6. #5

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    ok...experiment..over a GM7

    VII & bII..minor..major dom dim aug runs..scales fragments etc

    bV & bVII tri-tone scales..licks runs..treat them as maj min dom also

    III M7 & bVi arps scales runs--augmented scales

    V7 & V minor scales runs all the altered arps scales that would work with them

    hope this gives you some ideas

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Ah the infamous jazz kryptonite

    Here’s a good one - Blues on the third.

    So C major, play Em blues
    Yeah seriously it keeps me up at night lol

    But the minor pent from the 3rd sounds minor to me I kind of like the lydian sound but they all really sound minorish to me

    Does anyone have any examples of a strictly major sound I can't think of any

  8. #7

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    You need to apply static remover. Find more chords that work (this may depend on the tune) and listen to them to get melodic ideas.

    For example, Gmaj7...

    You start with

    x 10 12 11 12 x
    or
    x 10 9 7 7 x

    Try more chords - shift from the Gmaj7 and back, listening to if the new chord works with the tune. If so, use that to produce ideas. When you find some, try shifting from the Gmaj7 to a couple of new chords and back; see if more and longer pathways work. The idea is know which chords can do this from practicing, then play solo line ideas you get from these neighboring chords that work with the sense of the tune.

    Here are some chords that may help remove static for Gmaj7, for various kinds of tunes. If you have trouble finding new chords, make them up.

    x 6 7 7 8 x
    x 7 6 7 8 x
    x 7 7 7 8 x
    x 8 9 9 8 x
    x 8 9 10 11 x
    x 9 10 10 11 x
    x 10 11 10 13 x
    x 10 12 11 10 x
    x 11 11 11 12 x
    x 11 12 12 13 x
    x 12 13 12 12 x
    x 12 14 12 12 x
    x 13 14 14 15 x
    x 14 14 14 15 x
    x 15 16 15 18 x

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by wolflen
    ok...experiment..over a GM7

    VII & bII..minor..major dom dim aug runs..scales fragments etc

    bV & bVII tri-tone scales..licks runs..treat them as maj min dom also

    III M7 & bVi arps scales runs--augmented scales

    V7 & V minor scales runs all the altered arps scales that would work with them

    hope this gives you some ideas
    too much theory at once puts guitar down to think

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by pauln
    You need to apply static remover. Find more chords that work (this may depend on the tune) and listen to them to get melodic ideas.

    For example, Gmaj7...

    You start with

    x 10 12 11 12 x
    or
    x 10 9 7 7 x

    Try more chords - shift from the Gmaj7 and back, listening to if the new chord works with the tune. If so, use that to produce ideas. When you find some, try shifting from the Gmaj7 to a couple of new chords and back; see if more and longer pathways work. The idea is know which chords can do this from practicing, then play solo line ideas you get from these neighboring chords that work with the sense of the tune.

    Here are some chords that may help remove static for Gmaj7, for various kinds of tunes. If you have trouble finding new chords, make them up.

    x 6 7 7 8 x
    x 7 6 7 8 x
    x 7 7 7 8 x
    x 8 9 9 8 x
    x 8 9 10 11 x
    x 9 10 10 11 x
    x 10 11 10 13 x
    x 10 12 11 10 x
    x 11 11 11 12 x
    x 11 12 12 13 x
    x 12 13 12 12 x
    x 12 14 12 12 x
    x 13 14 14 15 x
    x 14 14 14 15 x
    x 15 16 15 18 x
    I'll try that but what if someone is just playing a vanilla GM7 do I shoot him?

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by xiv_R_A_I_D_E_R_
    I'll try that but what if someone is just playing a vanilla GM7 do I shoot him?

    If the bass player shows interest hearing that you are "playing around the GM7" to get some nice harmonic variation in your lines, shoot him a smiling nod as an encouragement. He might do a simple descending line, or play some 6th and 9th riffs, or he might just pedal the G and do something rhythmic to give you space. A pianist may hear you and lay back to avoid harmonic collisions, or he may hear and grasp what you are doing and select minimal things to accompany and support you.

    Playing is learning, for everyone - listening, invitation, and interaction.

  12. #11

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    I think the song matters. Most importantly, how long are you on the static maj7 and what happens afterward?

    What is the melody of the tune?

    Is there another chord instrument? (this impacts how much freedom you have).

    Can you come up with a good reharm which isn't simply a static chord and then solo on the reharm while the rhythm section plays the original changes?

    Mostly, I think a good way to start is by imagining a non-static chord sequence that fits the tune and then playing on that.

    Example: Samba De Orfeo. Starts with a Cmaj7 and goes, eventually to G7 - vanilla changes. But, you can voice lead into the G7 by playing Cmaj7 B7b13 Em7 A13b9 Dm7 G7. That works for comping and soloing.

    Chuck Wayne reharmonized every note of the tune, and then played on that.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Ah the infamous jazz kryptonite

    Here’s a good one - Blues on the third.

    So C major, play Em blues
    He mentioned it already, same as maj pent from the 5th.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    He mentioned it already, same as maj pent from the 5th.
    No worries, this was like my first or second post. It's early in the chain, but nobody could see it until it got approved by the mods, which happened a couple of hours ago, I think

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by xiv_R_A_I_D_E_R_
    Yeah seriously it keeps me up at night lol

    But the minor pent from the 3rd sounds minor to me I kind of like the lydian sound but they all really sound minorish to me

    Does anyone have any examples of a strictly major sound I can't think of any
    Well you are probably missing that bass G. So make sure you play it as well as whatever soloing you are doing. Thumbs are handy for this.

  16. #15

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    Some time ago I made this short video -- it is about chord voicing... but for me today there is not so much difference... these voicings allow to make some melodic idea.. it is not universal tool - just some minor idea which can be extended actually...

    the basic thing is that you go very far but you keep thiunking and realting it all to - un that case - C major chord..

    and it is not only absolute pitch but also the range, the colour, the dymanics


  17. #16
    Well I don't know what happened over night after I finished practicing but something did happen

    I was just brute forcing melodies over a GM7 shell voicing loop for 6 hours I think it helped lol

    But I definitely need to work on accepting new chords that aren't structurally correct like missing the root or 5 ect I just find it hard to not have all the notes it's more a mental road block though

  18. #17

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    To be honest the elephant in the room is always - if you play hip lines with hip rhythm, any mode or chord sounds hip.

    If you can’t sound good over a major chord, this is telling you something more general about your playing? Easier to hide in unfamiliar harmonic surroundings.

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by xiv_R_A_I_D_E_R_
    Well I don't know what happened over night after I finished practicing but something did happen

    I was just brute forcing melodies over a GM7 shell voicing loop for 6 hours I think it helped lol

    But I definitely need to work on accepting new chords that aren't structurally correct like missing the root or 5 ect I just find it hard to not have all the notes it's more a mental road block though
    This is a difficult "ear issue" in the beginning. It just takes time to learn to hear rootless chords, inversions, subs etc as the chord of the moment. One short-term help in this is to start or end on the easily-heard "home chord/voicing", while playing the "other" voicings/subs etc etc in between.

    So, vamp with strong Gmaj7 etc on beat one and others on other beats...

  20. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    This is a difficult "ear issue" in the beginning. It just takes time to learn to hear rootless chords, inversions, subs etc as the chord of the moment. One short-term help in this is to start or end on the easily-heard "home chord/voicing", while playing the "other" voicings/subs etc etc in between.

    So, vamp with strong Gmaj7 etc on beat one and others on other beats...
    Will do!!!

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Well you are probably missing that bass G. So make sure you play it as well as whatever soloing you are doing. Thumbs are handy for this.
    Did someone say Thumbs?


  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by xiv_R_A_I_D_E_R_
    Was wondering what you guys do on static major 7th chords?

    I know what to do on min7, dom7, min7b5, dim7 ect

    But on major chords I'm lost it either sounds too hokey or too minor sounding and I'm especially talking about chord melody playing if I have a backing I can come up with goodish lines but if it's just solo guitar I just can't get a sound I like

    So was wondering what devices and approaches you guys take
    I don't understand how playing chords within Major modes could sound minor ?

    But since you're doing something that works with a static min7, try playing the same chord melodies in the relative Major.

    i.e. CMaj7 - play Amin7 chord melodies.

    You'll end up with some 6th chords that can be changed to 7th by raising those notes a whole step. But the 6th chords will also work well. Also add some of those hip close voiced chords (with added sus4, 2nd etc.) and other quartal chords. Gotta stretch those fingers for some of those chords!