The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    ... I've often pondered this, but it entered my thoughts again recently. A colleague of mine who is quite well known in many parts of the world for his astonishing Jazz piano skills (gets hired by top tier artists etc) has been working on his scatting lately. He is easily the most gifted musician I've ever known and is blessed with an impossible ear, way beyond perfect pitch. By example, his bass player friend once found that his ears were so "big" that if he turned his back and someone played 10 notes within a one octave range on the piano, he could immediately tell you which 2 notes were omitted! I've seen him do this many times, it's no trick. His mother was a piano teacher and by the time he was 8 he had some serious repertoire under his fingers. But apparently he heard Oscar Peterson one day (age 9) and decided to work out those blistering jazz/blues runs by ear.

    This began his Jazz career and you can imagine how good he is by now (think a cross between OP, Jarret and Bill Evans, but across the ultra modern stuff as well). Anyhow, he sang for me the other night, a capella, improvising to Giant Steps because he had been doing it the car for "fun". I secretly recorded it on my phone. It was incredible, totally free wheeled, amazing complex chromatic lines and just endless perfect language. As I said to him, I liked his lines more than I liked Coltrane's! My wife was there too and she didn't think much of it.

    The next day I decided to comp along with the recording of the scatting, just to see if he actually was hitting all those changes. It was so quick I had to slow it down to half speed to hear it. Yep, the lines were perfect, almost as though they were composed (trust me, they weren't). Any great player would have been proud to have played those lines on their instrument, but to able to scat to GS and actually make the changes at 300+ bpm and still sound melodic.... well, let's just say that I doubt that anyone on this forum is able to do it

    Anyway, so my wife who has never improvised in her life (she sight reads classical flute moderately well) and can't really hear what goes on harmonically in Jazz , laughed at me incredulously after listening to me convey to a friend how amazed I was that someone can scat to GS so amazingly well. She said "that doesn't sound that hard, play the chords and I reckon I can do equally as well ! ". Obviously she couldn't, the nonsense she "scatted" over the top sounded equally as good to her, and she spent many years practicing the flute and playing a little guitar. But it was obviously gibberish and of course bore no resemblance to the chord progression at all! It was embarrassingly bad as you could well imagine, yet she still fails to see why her "performance" was was inferior to my friend's.

    And so to my point - only Jazz musicians (or at least aspiring jazz musicians) are able to fully appreciate the work it takes to be able to improvise at the highest level. Something that takes years of genius level commitment can come across to the untutored ear as indistinguishable from unskilled nonsense. At best, the uninitiated may be able to hear when one plays or sings "well", but will usually be more impressed with flashy scales/arps than by meaningful improv. In fact, I can't think of another art form that is more under appreciated than Jazz improvisation. It seems the skill required for high level visual arts (including dance) are more self evident, as is the case with the written word. Sure, anyone can hear how a pianist playing 6th grade classical pieces is not as advanced as the concert pianist, but the untutored listener would probably rate more highly the common cocktail piano player hack, over someone like, say, Thelonius Monk.

    Yep, we all know it, and we're all resigned to it, and we have been forever.

    Doesn't mean I'm fuckin' happy about it!

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  3. #2

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    Maybe it was something to do with it being scat singing? I suspect it often sounds a bit ‘random’ to most people (sometimes it is!).

    Maybe if she heard someone playing a brilliant jazz flute solo on Giant Steps she would not be so sure it was easy to do?

  4. #3

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    Maybe that’s a the best argument that a jazz musican could have for increasing the amount of jazz education haha.

    although I do feel there are some who enjoy being privy to a rarified artform. This is part of the reason I used to hate going to my local jazz club. ‘Who are these people?’ I used to think.

    We do to venerate craft in jazz. And that’s always going to be of interest to musicians only. Jazz can communicate but it’s not that side of it.

  5. #4

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    To be honest, and this is just an opinion, that's part of the problem with jazz...

    I don't think you needed to go anywhere near that far with the Giant Steps example either. I think the average musician has no idea how difficult it is to play the melody, and comp a chorus and play a good 3 chorus solo over Autumn Leaves in the traditional jazz idiom. At least 'good' to a pro jazz musician.

    I cannot do it and I've been playing forever.

    I'll mention something interesting to you. In my 20+ years of listening to jazz, I've never heard (on record) a bad jazz musician. I mean I have live and on Youtube sure, but I mean the stuff that gets played on the radio and the Blue Note label. stuff etc. I remember my teacher and I were listening this recording of Richie Powell and he told me Richie kind of stunk as a player. I was like really? Told me John Pizarelli has terrible singing intonation. I was like really? I like John a lot by the way.

    Anyway, I really didn't sign up for jazz as something that's a masturbatory skill kind of thing. I like the beautiful melodies of the songs and flowing lines. If I knew in the beginning what I know now though ...

  6. #5

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    Why should a listener of any genre of music give a shit about "how difficult" a piece of music or performance is? Lovers of music listen to music and enjoy it because it sounds good to them. Music is not a test, athletic achievement or swinging dicks contest. Everyone has known some idiot who goes to concerts to listen for and count "mistakes". Why don't they just become accountants and make pretty good bank for "looking for mistakes"; they're not missing anything by not going to concerts? If someone can't enjoy a piece of music without judging it's level of difficulty, I'd suspect they have few people who can stand to be around them in any aspect of their life. Judgemental tedious people are generally very lonely people. Music is about joy!

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Maybe it was something to do with it being scat singing? I suspect it often sounds a bit ‘random’ to most people (sometimes it is!).

    Maybe if she heard someone playing a brilliant jazz flute solo on Giant Steps she would not be so sure it was easy to do?
    You may be right. Still, to me, and I think to many of us here, singing perfect improv to difficult changes like GS is harder than playing them on an instrument, despite the converse being true (maybe) where singing against easier changes may yield superior melodies than our instrumental playing might.

    I often measure "musicianship" by how well we can audiate the music. This guy I'm talking about can tear you a new one improvising to anything at all on his piano. But I'm even more impressed that he sings anything he might play just as easily, because this shows me he really does play what he hears as opposed to sing what he plays. This is the highest level achievable in Jazz improv, in my view (playing what you sing- or even just singing it). To us players, the distinction is not subtle and is certainly acknowledged / appreciated, but the lay person has no way to fathom how much work that takes. If you put 10,000 hours into perfecting a magic act, people will appreciate it and possibly guess the preparation time required. Same goes for circus acts, snooker players, elite gymnasts, concert musicians etc etc.

    Ever wondered what non musicians think of your playing? If they heard you play at a club but couldn't tell how old you were, and if someone asked them how long they think it took to learn to improvise they way you do? How would you feel if they guess 4 years instead of the 40 years it may have taken?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by whiskey02
    Why should a listener of any genre of music give a shit about "how difficult" a piece of music or performance is? ...
    They shouldn't, obviously. Yet, once upon a time it seems that ordinary listeners had more of a clue about comparative "worthiness" with respect to Jazz playing. Great instrumentalists from Armstrong through to Coltrane were appreciated by music enthusiasts, most of whom were not musicians themselves. Even young women would make comments about players like Lester Young "His playing was to die for" , or Don Byas " we all thought he was the end!" etc.. Parker, Miles, Rollins, these people won listener polls! Common listeners knew wheat from chaff back then, what was popular was what was actually good! Compare that to now!, hehe...

    Let's face it, no one likes being misunderstood and no one likes being under appreciated. Rodney Dangerfield used to joke about it, but damn it, we don't get no respect!

  9. #8

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    The average person on the street doesn't know how hard it is to play jazz, and they don't care. It's not something that enters their minds. There are many things that are far harder to do than it seems to the uninitiated.

  10. #9

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    wow, how about some links to this guy ?

    yeah, its not about leval of dificulty, its actualy much harder to use simplicity . im also more impressed with the great improvisors who actualy brought you into their improvisation. they were so in control they could manipulate it. and do a solo that builds steadily and then crescendos and then get out , the rhythm section signitures the end of the solo and brings it way back down soft for the next soloist.

    their improvisation had a definite manipulation and control

    up bop is hard , but, its how incredible it makes me feel playing it that is why i do it , not because its dificult

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet

    And so to my point - only Jazz musicians (or at least aspiring jazz musicians) are able to fully appreciate the work it takes to be able to improvise at the highest level.
    That's probably true. Mind you, unless you're into it, there's no reason why it should be otherwise. Usually the response is either like or dislike.

  12. #11

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    Improvisation enjoys the curious distinction of being both the most widely practiced of all musical activities and the least acknowledged and understood. While it is today present in almost every area of music, there is an almost total absence of information about it. Perhaps this is inevitable, even appropriate. Improvisation is always changing and adjusting, never fixed, too elusive for analysis and precise description, essentially non-academic.
    Derek Bailey, Improvisation: its nature and practice in music, 1992, ix

    Bailey’s book looks at improvisation in flamenco, Indian music, baroque, organ music, rock and jazz, as well as the free improvisation he practised. Jazz cats cannot claim any exceptional or unique talent in this art.

  13. #12

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    Musicians being overly self absorbed with the difficulty of jazz has helped bring jazz to its knees. Like Whisky said, it shouldn't be about that. Any art that is too technical and admires its technicality is not long for the death heap. I think that in great art technique should be invisible. You should be transported beyond it.

    Yet I DO know what you mean. It's hard and I think doing it on guitar is particularly difficult. That this what is a fact to me, gets underappreciated, is sad. LOL.
    Last edited by henryrobinett; 05-10-2020 at 01:48 PM.

  14. #13

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    I don't think improvisation is that hard providing the work is put in beforehand. You need to know what works with what, what effects you want, the scales/modes/arpeggios/other tricks you need. Being able to analyse a tune is necessary, although that doesn't mean micro-analysing endlessly as an intellectual exercise. Also, you need to understand jazz language, normally got from listening and good practice. Add to that lots of experience and you're good to go.

    But any idea that it's some mystical art where somehow these geniuses pull brilliance out of the air is a myth. It's preparation + musical flair that does it. All of it can be learnt except the talent bit; that's mostly luck. And maybe genes - musical parents tend to have musical offspring.

    Which, of course, is asking a lot, which is why there are so few tip-top improvisers.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskey02
    Music is not a test, athletic achievement or swinging dicks contest. [snip] Music is about joy!
    Unfortunately, at the highest levels of proficiency, it often is exactly those things and not about joy, even though that is what it should be about. Cutting sessions, criticizing each other in the press, etc., all result from that tendency. Jazz musicians and orchestral musicians are often highly competitive individuals. That is what has motivated them to develop the extraordinary proficiency they have achieved. Those of us who are hobbyist musicians do so for the love of the art and the instrument; being a professional musician carries a requires that plus a different set of motivations. This is one of the reasons that hobbyists are almost never as proficient and skilled as professionals.

    In interviews, Pat Martino has talked about competitiveness. Prior to his aneurysm and neurosurgery, he was a very competitive person aiming at becoming "the best jazz guitarist." Afterwards, after he had a recovered to some extent and began playing again, his attention reverted to the joy of the music rather than a competitive motivation- indeed, back to what had interested him about playing music in the first place. George Benson has also talked about his competitive feelings as a young musician making the scene in New York. In both Martino's and Bensons cases, that drive pushed them to become amazing musicians and preeminent jazz guitarists of their generations.

    Personally I have found that while competitiveness pushes me to develop, it also has a tendency to ruin the enjoyment aspect of the activity.

  16. #15

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    One thought I've had is that great jazz needn't be difficult to play.

    But, then I read that an ordinary snowman is not sculpture.

    That is, that technique is a component of art, although I can't define the relationship clearly and I can think of exceptions.

    In my own listening, I don't gravitate towards speed, but the dimensions of music that do attract my attention are not so easy either. Clever harmony, for example. Some of Jim Hall's hippest sounds are made with this shape xxx232, but not against the same major chord. Great rhythmic feel, great ensemble play. The inchoate test of feeling something in response to a piece of music. In the guitar world, I get all that from Jim Hall and Wes Montgomery. BB King. Santana. Knopfler. They each have the technique they need.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    Unfortunately, at the highest levels of proficiency, it often is exactly those things and not about joy, even though that is what it should be about. Cutting sessions, criticizing each other in the press, etc., all result from that tendency. Jazz musicians and orchestral musicians are often highly competitive individuals. That is what has motivated them to develop the extraordinary proficiency they have achieved. Those of us who are hobbyist musicians do so for the love of the art and the instrument; being a professional musician carries a requires that plus a different set of motivations. This is one of the reasons that hobbyists are almost never as proficient and skilled as professionals.

    In interviews, Pat Martino has talked about competitiveness. Prior to his aneurysm and neurosurgery, he was a very competitive person aiming at becoming "the best jazz guitarist." Afterwards, after he had a recovered to some extent and began playing again, his attention reverted to the joy of the music rather than a competitive motivation- indeed, back to what had interested him about playing music in the first place. George Benson has also talked about his competitive feelings as a young musician making the scene in New York. In both Martino's and Bensons cases, that drive pushed them to become amazing musicians and preeminent jazz guitarists of their generations.

    Personally I have found that while competitiveness pushes me to develop, it also has a tendency to ruin the enjoyment aspect of the activity.
    I totally agree with this.

    Yesterday, I was listening to Bill Evan's Emily and how beautiful it is and how it would enjoyable to copy and play something like that. Spend weeks or months doing that.

    And then thought about if I tried to do a rendition and share it and have people tell me how bad it is, and how the melody is off, and the improvisation is shit, and I have no clue what I'm doing, etc, lol. I'm talking at the amateur level.

    That is the 'flipside' of a high level art I guess.

    I also think there's a certain irony because looking from the outside in, or as a beginner, it appears that jazz is 'free creative improvisation', but in reality in most forms of jazz, it's creative improvisation within a pretty strict framework.

  18. #17

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    this is the human condition...to the onlooker..that has no interest in the actual /training/study and ability level it takes to achieve a result..in ANY endever..may make one wonder..what skill do they have that they bring to their "work" in life...there are workers and there are craftspeople...some just get by with minimum effort and find no reason to go further...but others...even doing mundane tasks bring a certain shine to the work..and can be sensed if the observer know how to see it..

    In most of the "pay rent" jobs I have had .. I was placed in management positions because I just did a better/complete job than most others..when I managed resturants the staff worked with me not against me...I took time/energy to make that happen..now did the customers know this..some did...most did not..but their service/meals were good and many came back .. that was my "reward"..did I care if other managers worked as hard..did the owners see the difference..some did

    I have my father to thank for instilling a work ethic in me.."..if your going to do something..do it right or dont do it at all.."..this was a man who would make a tool if it did not exist in his tool box.. to do a good job rather than make the excuse of " I didnt have the right tools.."

    so it is with my music...I know a tune..but I hear othesr play it much better..and I want to do the same..it will take alot of work/practice and I may have to learn new techniques and study more about harmony or counterpoint or melodic development..the choice is mine..but I am driven on a certain level to do the best I can .. and if I dont..there is no one to blame..and I know it..
    Last edited by wolflen; 05-10-2020 at 10:00 PM.

  19. #18

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    Back when we were able to go to restaurants none of us ever considered what went into preparing an entree. We either liked it or we didn't.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskey02
    Why should a listener of any genre of music give a shit about "how difficult" a piece of music or performance is? Lovers of music listen to music and enjoy it because it sounds good to them. Music is not a test, athletic achievement or swinging dicks contest. Everyone has known some idiot who goes to concerts to listen for and count "mistakes". Why don't they just become accountants and make pretty good bank for "looking for mistakes"; they're not missing anything by not going to concerts? If someone can't enjoy a piece of music without judging it's level of difficulty, I'd suspect they have few people who can stand to be around them in any aspect of their life. Judgemental tedious people are generally very lonely people. Music is about joy!

    Bravo! Very well said.


    Doug

  21. #20

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    I have a theory of balancing technique, aesthetics and emotion. The thought is that for a piece of art to have a truly significant and lasting impact it should be balanced with all three. When i hear a musician who just has remarkable technical mastery but no heart or imagination it hits me in one area. I think DAMN that guy can play FAST. I file it away and probably never have the need to listen to it again. Same thing with each of the other categories. But if one serves the other, where your attention can go from aesthetic appeal, imaginative images for example, to emotion, either deeply sad or very happy and enthusiastic, to technical mastery, we have a winner. And people, non-musician people who are mildly interested that this person has great technique and plays very hard stuff, doesn’t have to think about it. He’s swept away by emotion or imaginary images, remembrances. He’s swept away by the song to the point where the musicians disappear.

    Music is all magic, or seems to be. The real problem artists get into, I THINK, is getting too sucked into the detail of the technology of playing hard stuff. I know I do. We forget the seemingly effortlessness of the art itself.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  22. #21
    Hmm, some of the comments seem to be mentioning that by "hard" I might have meant "difficult" or "fast". But as hard as it is to even have it together on the technical side, that's not what I'd like to see a greater appreciation for. What I meant was - it's hard to be good, as in "peer reviewed" good. Monk good, Miles good, Jim Hall good, as aspiring Jazz players, we acknowledge how special these players are and why. But try playing Jim Hall to someone that listens to people who play impressive sounding precomposed solos in any kind of music, and chances are the nuances and subtleties will go unappreciated.

    The piano player in my example was not just shredding fast scat lines to GS that hit the right notes, he was also creating compelling melodies, and that was the hard part!

    And hey, I get that daring to even start such a thread may come off as some kind of Elitism (my music is harder than yours but you're too stupid to know it), but really, it comes more out of Pride. When you stand up for something you feel proud about (civil rights, gay rights, gender rights, handicapped rights) you can usually count on full support from the community you speak for. But not Jazz. The Jazz community has learned to be comfortable with martyrdom (oh I'm a poor jazz musician and my axe is my cross to bear...).

    We don't win any admirers that way (except from each other). We don't dare to have an "attitude" (like many Jazz greats did from the past). No, just be humble bitch ... and speaking of HipHop, having an attitude certainly hasn't harmed their popularity, has it?. How many self proclaimed "geniuses" are getting all that money and attention out there these days? At least in Miles' heyday he had real substance to back up the hoopla ...

  23. #22

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    There's a relaxedness to the way great improvisers go about music.
    Italians would call it "sprezzatura": a certain nonchalance , so as to conceal all art and make whatever one does or plays appear to be without effort and almost without any thought about it.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
    There's a relaxedness to the way great improvisers go about music.
    Italians would call it "sprezzatura": a certain nonchalance , so as to conceal all art and make whatever one does or plays appear to be without effort and almost without any thought about it.
    Excellent. Relaxed. Stream. Unthinking flow. Effortlessness. That's mastery.

  25. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
    There's a relaxedness to the way great improvisers go about music.
    Italians would call it "sprezzatura": a certain nonchalance , so as to conceal all art and make whatever one does or plays appear to be without effort and almost without any thought about it.
    Yeah, it's easy, once you've put in between 10,000 to 50,000 hours of preparation!

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    Unfortunately, at the highest levels of proficiency, it often is exactly those things and not about joy, even though that is what it should be about. Cutting sessions, criticizing each other in the press, etc., all result from that tendency. Jazz musicians and orchestral musicians are often highly competitive individuals. That is what has motivated them to develop the extraordinary proficiency they have achieved. Those of us who are hobbyist musicians do so for the love of the art and the instrument; being a professional musician carries a requires that plus a different set of motivations. This is one of the reasons that hobbyists are almost never as proficient and skilled as professionals.

    In interviews, Pat Martino has talked about competitiveness. Prior to his aneurysm and neurosurgery, he was a very competitive person aiming at becoming "the best jazz guitarist." Afterwards, after he had a recovered to some extent and began playing again, his attention reverted to the joy of the music rather than a competitive motivation- indeed, back to what had interested him about playing music in the first place. George Benson has also talked about his competitive feelings as a young musician making the scene in New York. In both Martino's and Bensons cases, that drive pushed them to become amazing musicians and preeminent jazz guitarists of their generations.

    Personally I have found that while competitiveness pushes me to develop, it also has a tendency to ruin the enjoyment aspect of the activity.
    Was his goal to be the best he could be, or "the best"? The goal to be the best you can become is to be respected. If Pat worked to be "the best" in the world, I'm sure he realizes he failed. Pat is the best Pat Martino guitar player, and that will have to be enough of an accomplishment.