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  1. #1

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    This month we expand on what we learned in the previous chapter about how to approach dominant chords. In this chapter, Garrison provides us with a treasure trove of examples in the styles of Wes, Benson, Martino, Hall, and others.

    Finally, we get another standard to practice over: This time it is Wes Montgomery's classic,West Coast Blues (cleverly disguised as East Ghost Blues).

    Let's do this.
    Fewell's Melodic Approach - Ch. 5 (Stylistic Interpretation)-spck-thumb-nicholas-c-png

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I'm in! Thanks for keeping this going Jay.

  4. #3

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    How about that George Benson lick, eh? After some time I gave up trying to play it like the tab shows, and just slid into the double stop instead of hammering on.

  5. #4

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    I was looking at the Benson lick today as well. A month of drilling Chapter 4 made all the difference. I finally had a real aha! moment.

    GF has given me a way of thinking about and internalizing something I’ve heard but not understood for years. I worked through this book a few years ago, but without the discipline that sticking to a study group format has imposed. I liked it, but it didn’t move the dial much. This time through I’m definitely moving the dial!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo
    How about that George Benson lick, eh? After some time I gave up trying to play it like the tab shows, and just slid into the double stop instead of hammering on.
    Tough one getting your fingers sorted....

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    Tough one getting your fingers sorted....
    Exactly! Which is why after like 45mins of trying, I gave up and tried something else. GF's lick sounds *so* good tho, it's not the same the way I'm playing it.

  8. #7

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    Aside from the gymnastics, I have two observations I would like to share about that lick and to see if anyone agrees:

    1) I feel like the chord symbols don't reflect what GB is thinking in bar 3. It seems pretty obvious to me that he is thinking Bb7 for the first two measures and F6 for the next. The chords symbols seem to reflect what you might see in a Real Book, but don't seem to match the lines.

    2) A lot of these "minor" licks seem to start on the b7 of the dominant cord, not the 5. They really feel very "major" to my ears. I suspect GF is trying to keep things simple and not overwhelm with options, but it really is a different lick if you emphasize the "minor" of the 5th, the "diminished" of the 3rd, or the "major" of the 7th. I am sure there is even more to come, but I am noticing the different moods each triad/arp brings to the dominant chord. Anyone else hearing a big difference between licks using these different triads?

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    1) I feel like the chord symbols don't reflect what GB is thinking in bar 3. It seems pretty obvious to me that he is thinking Bb7 for the first two measures and F6 for the next. The chords symbols seem to reflect what you might see in a Real Book, but don't seem to match the lines.
    If we are talking about the George Benson lick, the chord symbols are simply that: the chords he's playing in the background.

    The first two bars are Gminor licks. That second bar is one he introduced almost right away (Ch 2?). I really don't know what bar 3 is, other than it's simply what I call a "Charlie Christian" lick. It's certainly a standard little blues lick, but I'm uncertain how it relates to his teachings thus far.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo
    If we are talking about the George Benson lick, the chord symbols are simply that: the chords he's playing in the background.
    Yes, that's what I'm referring to. For example, he never actually plays that D7. We get what might be called a Ab13 followed by a G-9 (or Bb^7) anticipating the G-/C7 by just a half beat*. D7 is a common substitution for a vi chord, by why write it into this example? It is not what he plays and doesn't advance the teaching any. Or am I missing a lesson here? Usually, if you want to emphasize that substitution you would play an F# somewhere in the lick. But he doesn't. Nor does he play a lick based on an A- triad. So is that a lazy editor or is there a lesson there I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo
    I really don't know what bar 3 is, other than it's simply what I call a "Charlie Christian" lick. It's certainly a standard little blues lick, but I'm uncertain how it relates to his teachings thus far.
    If we were to change the D to an Eb it would be one of those dim chords from the 3rd. Again, I don't know if GF means to teach us something by using the D. I agree that, at least this far, that is a move that hasn't been explained.

    None of this is me complaining. It actually makes me want to go out and get some of those "lick libraries" from TrueFire and others. GF has given me new eyes to see these licks over dominants differently and I am chomping at the bit to see more examples. I'm just trying to make sure I'm not glossing over some nugget.




    *To be fair, I don't think GF is thinking A13 to G- when he is comping. Throughout the example, he seems to be basically playing the 3/7 of the underlying dominant with one top note for color. Either the 13th or the #9. The brief move up a minor third from F7 to Ab7 before the G-/C7 is a common enough device that doesn't really change the thinking from F7.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    Yes, that's what I'm referring to. For example, he never actually plays that D7. We get what might be called a Ab13 followed by a G-9 (or Bb^7) anticipating the G-/C7 by just a half beat*. D7 is a common substitution for a vi chord, by why write it into this example? It is not what he plays and doesn't advance the teaching any. Or am I missing a lesson here? Usually, if you want to emphasize that substitution you would play an F# somewhere in the lick. But he doesn't. Nor does he play a lick based on an A- triad. So is that a lazy editor or is there a lesson there I am missing?
    I think you are over analyzing it. It's simply the turnaround/last 4 bars of a blues. He might be playing some sort of subs or altereds for the chords he's actually playing, but the chart is just keeping it simple.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo
    How about that George Benson lick, eh? After some time I gave up trying to play it like the tab shows, and just slid into the double stop instead of hammering on.
    Yeah, I really dig this one, it's one of my favourites of the chapter. That little double-stop is definitely tricky, but pretty cool once you get it under your fingers. Do you mean that you slide the whole double-stop?

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    Aside from the gymnastics, I have two observations I would like to share about that lick and to see if anyone agrees:

    1) I feel like the chord symbols don't reflect what GB is thinking in bar 3. It seems pretty obvious to me that he is thinking Bb7 for the first two measures and F6 for the next. The chords symbols seem to reflect what you might see in a Real Book, but don't seem to match the lines.
    No, as Bahnzo mentioned, the chords symbols are just laying down what the harmony is doing. He's showing us that you can simplify the whole thing by just playing Gm+ext over the first two bars and Cm/F7 over the whole 2-bar turnaround.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    *To be fair, I don't think GF is thinking A13 to G- when he is comping. Throughout the example, he seems to be basically playing the 3/7 of the underlying dominant with one top note for color. Either the 13th or the #9. The brief move up a minor third from F7 to Ab7 before the G-/C7 is a common enough device that doesn't really change the thinking from F7.
    Yep, you nailed it -- that's exactly what he's doing, and he teaches us how to do it ourselves in Ch. 7! (And that Ab13 you're seeing is a D7#9.)

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu
    Yeah, I really dig this one, it's one of my favourites of the chapter. That little double-stop is definitely tricky, but pretty cool once you get it under your fingers. Do you mean that you slide the whole double-stop?
    Yeah, I just slide into it. It's not the same, but I just can't get the grip fast enough to get that hammer on and then the slide.

    I also think the TAB is wrong there. It shows holding the double stop for a beat, but I hear it as holding the slide for a beat instead. Am I crazy?

  16. #15

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    Yeah, I find the notated rhythms to be approximations at best. I think it really helps to play along with Fewell and try to get the timings and articulations as close to his as possible. He also has a lot of subtle slides and things that don't make it into the notation.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu
    Yeah, I find the notated rhythms to be approximations at best. I think it really helps to play along with Fewell and try to get the timings and articulations as close to his as possible. He also has a lot of subtle slides and things that don't make it into the notation.
    If you could notate jazz correctly with all the minute details it would be impossible to read...

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    Tough one getting your fingers sorted....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo
    Exactly! Which is why after like 45mins of trying, I gave up and tried something else. GF's lick sounds *so* good tho, it's not the same the way I'm playing it.
    I changed the fingering for the second part of the phrase: I use my pinky for the Bb on the b string and my ringfinger for the D on the 1st string and it works well that way- try it.
    Last edited by TOMMO; 05-06-2020 at 02:47 PM.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo

    I also think the TAB is wrong there. It shows holding the double stop for a beat, but I hear it as holding the slide for a beat instead. Am I crazy?
    Just listened to it. What I seem to hear is a combined hammer-on / pull-off (g to g# and g# back to g) before sliding down from g to f.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    Just listened to it. What I seem to hear is a combined hammer-on / pull-off (g to g# and g# back to g) before sliding down from g to f.
    Ok, that's what I was hearing as well. I still can't play it that way, tho

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu
    Cm/F7 over the whole 2-bar turnaround.
    I'm actually seeming that last part as a Gm now. It's the Bb maj triad of the Gm. Ex 2.9 shows it. It's "hidden" because he's using the approach notes to outline it.

    I still think of it as a "Charlie Christian" lick.

  22. #21

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    Hey! I don't have a webcam, but I figured I could use my phone + reaper. After some experimentation, I now know why they use those "clapper boards" when they shoot video.

    The "George Benson" lick. With some bonus improv. I've never recorded myself on video, I'm equal parts amused and horrified at the faces I make.


  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo
    I'm actually seeming that last part as a Gm now. It's the Bb maj triad of the Gm. Ex 2.9 shows it. It's "hidden" because he's using the approach notes to outline it.

    I still think of it as a "Charlie Christian" lick.
    To me it's an F major pentatonic lick starting with an enclosure of the major third - yes: something that CC often employed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo
    Hey! I don't have a webcam, but I figured I could use my phone + reaper. After some experimentation, I now know why they use those "clapper boards" when they shoot video.

    The "George Benson" lick. With some bonus improv. I've never recorded myself on video, I'm equal parts amused and horrified at the faces I make.

    Very good! Thanks!

  24. #23

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    So how are you guys getting on with this stuff?

    I'm not sure whether I'll have a chance to record anything before the month is out, but I'm definitely still spending time each day working on this. There is a lot of material here, and I see this chapter as one to revisit as we continue through the book -- a well to come back to.

    It's interesting that after giving us so much material in 4/4, he has us apply it to a tune in 3/4. I feel like the lesson here is that we should be messing around with and adapting these lines to different situations, rather than just seeing them as examples to (possibly) memorize.

  25. #24

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    Very excited to stumble upon this group, having picked up this GF book again recently. I'm currently working through Ch. 3, which is as far as I ever got before, and looking forward to finally following through this time!

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaseyW
    Very excited to stumble upon this group, having picked up this GF book again recently. I'm currently working through Ch. 3, which is as far as I ever got before, and looking forward to finally following through this time!
    Welcome to the group!

    As for me: Lately I have been a little bit unmotivated re: playing the guitar but I still tried to get a grasp on the benson lick every now and then. I'll be back in the game though....