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  1. #1

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    Chapter 2 in my youtube series : KETU CANDOMBLE CODES in jazz evolution history , and this chapter is featuring the massivly powerful ILU . This incredible beat has treasure all inside out. You have to play it at its normal up speed, but,you can slow it down, look at the opisite hand, and it reveals some deep secrets of Brazilian music and American music.

    The more i delve into this, the more it just blows my mind . I cant stress enough that these are the foundations for groove, phrasing, phrasing in compositions, and improvising in jazz evolution history. The speed this one can get into is heavy duty, and i discovered making this, some secrets to the stride aproach , now i know what they are doing in the rhythm aproach. and that powerful stride led to up tempo aproaches that mixed with swing later (BRAVUM in Ketu Candomble )

    On one Loius Armstrong thing, you are going to see me crack a huge smile, its because this stuff is hooking up so hard , how can you deny it ? James P Johnson , Art Tatum, Prof Longhair are on here too

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Yoruba music - Wikipedia

    I think of it as like 12/8 over 4/4
    And triplet quarter notes over 4/4

    Also, tresillo the 3 side of the clave pattern
    Last edited by rintincop; 04-08-2020 at 07:39 PM.

  4. #3
    yeah , that is the spanish word that sometimes is used to describe the feel

    jelly roll mentioned the "spanish tinge"

    no doubt all the caribean cultures have a connection also to what was happening in the usa

    but, this ketu candomble seems much closer to what they were doing in jazz with it , maybe because the sticks bring it closer to drums

    they should have a yoroba description actualy , right ? haha

    and the left hand thing, that catches bossa nova , olodum, frevo , stride , that is something else .

  5. #4

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    Like Billie Holliday singing the triplet quarter notes against 4/4


  6. #5
    oh yeah, that is BRAVUM, ( the next chapter).

    actualy its the half note of the opisite hand in BRAVUM

    BRAVUM is like an art blakey / phillie jo jones lick playing the triplit on the rim click...play the triplit using every other beat and that is what barry is talking about, not about ketu bravum but the polyrhythm becomes that in BRAVUM

    2 against 3 is the serious ingrediant in all of it, every bar , its just that deepest part that goes back to the ancient african concepts

  7. #6
    ...its a ballad so its also got BATA in it, not bata from cuba which is their discription of the religious drumming like ketu describes

    the thing is, you can get implications of two or three of these ketu codes in one song.

    i have said what i see happening up in the states is mish mash using these codes, in ketu candomble from brazil , they are codified beats literaly trying to reach back to west african religious concepts, so they are preserved

    which makes it valuable to me, because now i can see codes in jazz like i didnt before. i understand so much now that i didnt before and im a seasoned jazz player , ive been around . ive listened to more armstrong the last 5 years than my whole life

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    Yoruba music - Wikipedia

    I think of it as like 12/8 over 4/4
    And triplet quarter notes over 4/4
    It can rock as well as swing:


  9. #8

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    Not sure if I quite understand what the ilu patterns are - seems very intricate!

  10. #9

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    I had a washing machine that used to play these rhythms.


  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    I had a washing machine that used to play these rhythms.
    LOL!!! No offense meant to OP, but that washing machine clip is hilarious.

  12. #11
    cunamara , ketu candomble absulutly rocks. for sure the dna is all up in rock . micky hart is flushing it out even more ,but, all over rock is ketu codes. rock comes from blues and its all up in there.

    rintincop, its definitly BATA, not cuban bata. BATA is alternating hands in 6, you can fit it over any decent ballad , check 8:15, with the flamingos, that is bata and if you only play the right hand on it, its exactly what barry harris is talking about

    christian , please ask me or tell me what is confusing to you, id love to break it down to you

    yes, cosmic gumbo , that is the famous "BOOGALOOZAK" beat , from the amazon interior , they use odd times

  13. #12
    bell : x.xx.xx./x.xx.xx./x.xx.xx./

    pi and le r l rlr l rlr l /r l rlr l rlr l /
    x. xx . xx ./

  14. #13
    pi and le r l rlr l rlr l /r l rlr l rlr l /
    x. xx . xx ./
    /. l .l. l .l. l/ ( the dots dont mean dotted quarters , just takin gout the "r"

    the opisite hand ( left hand for me) is the cadence that is the base for frevo , bossa nova, olodum , and the tiger rag figure in jazz

    nobody could speak to that firgure in bossa nova before, the real origins, but there it is. and there it is in louis armstrong and you could play the bass drum like that in a funk beat .

    it took me a lot of working with ilu to get this. i played right handed , left handed , slow it down, its a fast rhythm, and it just started to pop out at me.

    that little " r l rlr..) if you go " r rlr.." its the beginning of a rumba. the whole thing is almost like the first part of a 3/2 cascara.
    if you play the "rlr" seperated as its in the figure, its a kind of 3 against 2 patern , which is the whole ancient african concept the 3 against 2 pollyrhythm

    once you can get it going, play one hand on one surface and the other hand on another, and you will see it



  15. #14
    there is an extrodinary thing i discovered at :

    0:17-0:57-1:10 the part that im reffering to the last chapter "Opanije" using James P Johnson as a referance of opanije and at 0:57 , they go into a hard walking bass swing that for me is Bravum.

    if you are like i was before i became aware of these hook ups , and on a gig , whether a restaraunt , wedding, any standards gig, where you start two beat half time when you play the head and at a bridge or solo goes into walking bass splang a lang on the cymbal.

    i used to not love that two beat part, figure im suposed to be floaty , not defined , i just couldnt wait for the walking bass part.

    its amazing doing this youtube because i really am learning as i go and im barely scratching the surface and things just keep opening up in a powerful way to help me think like i havnt thought before.

    so i realised , this whole two beat thing is the tip of the hat to the old style of jazz , mainly louis armstrong , and louis was doing a whole lot of opanije sounding cadences . i knew it was an older style but i didnt hook it up with the whole louis armstrong hot fives aproach, which was the ground breaking record in jazz every one went for.

    and , i dont know when this james p johnson example was recorded, but, these are the earliar cats , and that has to be as solid an example of going from a popular style before into a hard swinging walk. i am so envious of that walk , its so simple and pure and swings so darn hard.

    the half time two beat that you play on the head that goes into swing , is an opanije type cadence going into a bravum like cadence. it should imply if not stated " oom pa oom pa oom rest boom ba boom " , and then go into the walk on the solo or bridge.

    ill never look on it the same again.....all those years not knowing this ......duh

  16. #15

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    Tuba

  17. #16

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    Paul Chambers would have been a great tuba player.

  18. #17
    Haha

    christian , yeah, it was right in front of my face all the time, the cadence that goes with early jazz, the groove they were feeling.

    it was in the bass drum,too, and that is what that whole two beat half time thing we play on standards relates to.

    even the most ethereal bill Evans rendition is tipping its hat to this past.

    ok, I know I shouldn't play it blatantly , but just knowing this now , from connecting it with opanije , I have a much better sence of how to approach it and play around with it...

    you got got to love this about jazz, you never stop learning something new to be able to swing harder

  19. #18
    ...and that James p Johnson example with Wardell Grey is probably one of the earlier examples of how that cadence like Opanije , would then go into walking bass.

    very hard hitting and defined, the one groove into another. And then how that comes down later to that bill Evans loose halftime in the head into walking bass into the solo

  20. #19

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    great stuff. keep it coming.



  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by bonsritmos
    Haha

    christian , yeah, it was right in front of my face all the time, the cadence that goes with early jazz, the groove they were feeling.

    it was in the bass drum,too, and that is what that whole two beat half time thing we play on standards relates to.

    even the most ethereal bill Evans rendition is tipping its hat to this past.

    ok, I know I shouldn't play it blatantly , but just knowing this now , from connecting it with opanije , I have a much better sence of how to approach it and play around with it...

    you got got to love this about jazz, you never stop learning something new to be able to swing harder
    two half notes and a Charleston...

  22. #21
    ha christian

    yeah, charlston is ilu , two half notes and an ilu , with that baboom at the end, and the beginning of the second half has that two 16 notes at the beginning of the phrase "baba" so its "baba.ba.baba"

    notice how the soloist lots of times implies the two half notes , leaves a space and ony hits the ".baba" at the end , but just that is enough to imply the "baba.ba.baba".

    for sure in a "splang a lang" swing, we dont expect the soloist to play every note "splang a lang" , they use it as a pivot , and actualy use the bell part of Bravum as the solo pivot point, that "jingle bell" figure that is in the head of "now's the time".

    christion one thing i forgot to mention to you about the Ilu figure in the left hand , the right hand is playing the exact bell part : / x.xx.xx / , so if you are trying to figure out what i meant about the left hand :
    pi and le r l rlr l rlr l /r l rlr l rlr l /
    x. xx . xx ./
    /. l .l. l .l. l/ ( the dots dont mean dotted quarters , just taking out the "r")

    what i forgot to mention is the right hand or strong hand is playing the exact bell pattern x.xx.xx

    so the r l rlr l rlr l the right hand should be playing the bell part
    x .xx . xx

    get it to flow and then play it on two surfaces and watch the left hand , or opisite hand

    just in case there was any confusion on your part

    please dont hesitate to clarify if things arnt getting across, ill do the best i can to break it down to you, your interest is genuine and with great curiosity , id do all i can for you to get it, and you already show you do, and you were into thinking about things like this before i ever came on this forum