The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Posts 126 to 150 of 172
  1. #126

    User Info Menu

    By the way - it's so cool I now have a language to talk about the changes in swing feel from the 1920s through to the 50s. It also helps me play that music!

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #127

    User Info Menu

    Hey Christian... OK sorry.

    Funny...that old modern thing you seems to be talking about always seems rather simple personally. I played Hotel Swing dance band gigs every weekend as a kid. Then back in the 80's, 90's would get great $ gigs in Vegas and other wealthy retirement folk gigs all over the states.... small and large BBs...

    Maybe some have trouble with that straight swing feel.... because you do need strong rhythmic articulation technique.

    I play some up tempo Blue Grass gigs, very similar kind of western swing feels. S-W-S-W.

    Good luck... your great player (maybe a little crazy), but it's catchy.

    Can you imply the feel... playing solo. That's always been my test.

    (blues influence camouflaged)

  4. #128

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77

    So: the 'behind the beat' stuff always sounds like modern jazz when done on guitar. (As I say, I don't think Prez really plays behind the beat.) But the guitar can't really do that... There is a job of work to be done.

    The fact that I give a shit about the second point AT ALL I suspect is probably why I continue to get calls for this music haha (and I know the rep.)

    In its own way modern jazz is much more forgiving.
    Can I get a Hallelujah!

  5. #129

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Hey Christian... OK sorry.

    Funny...that old modern thing you seems to be talking about always seems rather simple personally. I played Hotel Swing dance band gigs every weekend as a kid. Then back in the 80's, 90's would get great $ gigs in Vegas and other wealthy retirement folk gigs all over the states.... small and large BBs...

    Maybe some have trouble with that straight swing feel.... because you do need strong rhythmic articulation technique.

    I play some up tempo Blue Grass gigs, very similar kind of western swing feels. S-W-S-W.

    Good luck... your great player (maybe a little crazy), but it's catchy.

    Can you imply the feel... playing solo. That's always been my test.

    (blues influence camouflaged)
    Well thanks! means a lot.

    yes I get the Western Swing/Bluegrass connection. It can feel that way. that’s closer than modern jazz swing. They are similar - variants on a two feel with syncopation. It works well enough to be legitimate.

    there’s more to it. The real shit is funkier in a way it takes time to get into. And then there’s the Kansas City four feel... Lester was not playing with a band playing a two beat groove. But they weren’t the bop feel either...

    Bonsritmos is pointing to some very interesting stuff that has reignited my interest in it beyond it being just a gig. I can see ways I can develop it past the gypsy jazz or chord solos or having to imitate the past... we’ll see
    Last edited by christianm77; 04-14-2020 at 06:43 PM.

  6. #130

    User Info Menu

    [QUOTE=christianm77;1024090]This instantly triggered a couple of thoughts

    1) it’s always been a challenge to me as the usually sole guitar or sole comper in a swing band as a soloist I can’t take liberties with the time. So therefore I have to play, or feel I must, play very locked in, to keep the time going or the band is going to lose its groove.

    I've been looking for a way to do this without playing running 8ths. Or chords.

    A lot of the downstream discussion is over my head, but I'll venture a response to this particular point.

    If the bassist and the drummer are locked tight together with good feel, the two of them should provide ample rhythm and harmony. At that point, the soloist has a complete foundation and can take off (this has to be with good time feel, but not necessarily as the creator of it within the group).

    If you feel, as the soloist, or, for that matter, as the only comping instrument, that you're dragging the bass or drums along with you in a labored effort, then something's wrong.

    I've always assumed that a highly skilled musician could listen to the laboring group and diagnose the problem pretty quickly. But, I end up having to diagnose it the same way a non-techie figures out which tube is bad. You switch them out one at time with a tube that you know is good.

    So, at a point where I was starting to feel like I should give up guitar because my time feel was so bad, I invited some pros I knew over for a jam on the same material. Suddenly, my time feel was much better. Eventually tracked it down to the bassist. Better bassist and I played better. It's a hierarchy. I'm confident the pros wondered if I needed a few minutes on a tube-tester.

    Particularly in groove based music, the bass and the drums should be able to create a great groove by themselves. In fact, when you hear a good musician playing alone, you can feel groove.

    I did a trio gig last Christmas with some musicians that I think of as a good deal above my head. Guitar, horn and bass. So, a fair amount of it was guitar and bass. The bassist played very simply, but his time feel was so strong that playing over his bass lines was relaxing. I felt like I could do anything and it would land right in the groove. With a weaker bassist I can end up feeling like I have no sense of time at all.

    I think a reasonable comment would be that I should be able to create it and bring the others along with me. Great players can do that -- Reg certainly among them -- he has great time feel -- and it's something I aspire to.

    As far as working on it goes, the best thing I've found, so far, for improving time feel, is more hours playing with really great players. I've gotten nothing out of books and very little out of practicing with metronome or backing track. Playing along with recordings helps to a degree but live is better. Also, recording the sessions and critiqueing them. It's easier to be a critic than a player, meaning you can hear things on the recording that you thought, incorrectly, were good when you played them. Please don't ask how I know that.

  7. #131

    User Info Menu

    So about the time thing .....

    my my teacher once asked the class
    "who in the band is most responsible for the time"

    various answers were offered but his answer was

    _

    _

    _

    _

    _

    _

    "everyone"

    I liked that ......
    (i like a good aphorism)

  8. #132

    User Info Menu

    Yes. 100%. That's the basic bar..

    Now, for advanced applications ask yourself how time is from feel to feel and how you might be able to make that felt without any accompaniment.

    The problem I'm talking about is often manifested by musicians not quite playing the right feel for that specific style (usually out of habit), and how do I make up the ground to pull it more towards the area it needs to be in for the gig.

    people feel the same when playing some specific Brazilian feel as opposed to generic 'straight 8s/latin', right?

    Secondly, am I always limited by that obligation within the style, or is there a way of finding more freedom (maybe.)

  9. #133

    User Info Menu

    christian, you are hitting the nail on the head about going back to the early jazz and really hearing the groove they were coming from. for a long time i didnt get it, i heard the rhythm section playing ompa/ompa/ and thought that was the role back then.

    but, its the soloists who are laying down this monster groove . once i plugged into that groove, it all made sence.

    and this in many cases is with out drums. so many fundimentals of what we play in pre ornette / brubeck jazz , go back into early jazz phrasings and the tricks they were using. miles tipped his hat to armstrong in the A section of milestones with the cadence in the head. you heard how red garland was throwing in opanije type cadence in a solo over a swing bravum type style. you saw how the early jazz opanije like cadence was almost like two half notes and ilu, which has huge variations how to express that, like cascara surrounds clave or using less notes .

    its really great people like us can look back and start to see for the first time, the real groove and feeling they were shooting for and how that carries over into the modern jazz we are trying to play.im not going to do an armstrong revival band , but i sure have a renewed deep respect for what he was doing now , and it affects how i aproach what im playing now.i just picked up a thing from stride that helps me deal with practicing with mccoy records.

    rpjazz, you contributed greatly on the samba thread right ? you are so right, if one person is not sync, it really affects the whole thing, especialy the bass player . and it is up to each individual to compensate for any weak links . this is where this understanding of the origins in jazz, how much cadence phrase playing is going on. when they didnt have drums, they are playing huge amounts of these cadences that fit right with bell parts on ketu candomble. its like there is so much more pivot point phrasing going on. its more linear now.

    great for new directions , influences, but if people then want to funtion in a swinging jazz group especialy up tempo, you cant ignore the origins of where this all comes from.

    its the secret too, the tricks, play more firm rhythm cadences in your solos , and the band will swing harder , you will swing harder. you will be able to go faster

    fast 16 note runs that dont hook up the groove, will swim against the current.if you know the tricks, how cadences with the group help to swing harder and go faster if you want, its like putting english on the cue ball, with actualy less effort, you can cause more spin and torque on the groove and actualy take the rhythm section on your back and move it along

  10. #134

    User Info Menu

    I think that is what I am trying to say

  11. #135

    User Info Menu

    So really... it still comes down to technique on your instrument. Christian and bonsritmos are working on unexplained rhythmic secrets of getting that Feel.... Which is cool and and I'm trying to use my BS to theoretcially break it down.... Sorry, trying to keep it light. Personally... you just need to be able to walk and chew gum.

    *meaning if your technique on your instrument is good enough.... to not need to be "In the Moment" when performing, you can actually think about the music and the context.

    It's difficult to play what you don't have the technical skills to realize on your instrument. Like if you have trouble playing rhythm changes at 300mm while practicing or in a controlled setting. How can you expect to be able to play them live while interacting with other musicians. You need to be able to play much faster than 300mm to perform at 300mm. Or say 220mm...I'm just picking a tempo.

    So at any tempo.... to create different feels, swing, latin, funk whatever.... feels are created by accent patterns and subdividing. So at least... you need triplet subdivisions of beats. Which already adds one more attack to the time frame and brings the temp up by a 3rd, depending on the pulse.

    Or maybe... when I was a kid, I played the Villa-Lobos Preludes, they were short, cool and not too difficult, but there was always at least one difficult passage in each one, (or more). Anyway I remember learning that I really couldn't play any of the preludes until I could easy play the difficult passages. another lousy analogy

    Yea pingn... aphorisms are a way of life. Have you ever been in one of those setting at collage or private music seminar or festival where speaker asks all the musicians to keep time in their heads and clap on beat one of a 4 bar phrase.... then of 2 bar phrase.... then 1 bar. I've used that opening. Relaxes room instantly.

  12. #136

    User Info Menu

    reg

    i definitly think technique is important. the things i talk about are suposed to be added on to all the work you have to do about theory , harmony, scales, understanding form and the mechanics of playing the guitar . like they all have to be kind of mixed together. even if you dont go deep into the things im talking about, rhythm is part of technique . playing with dynamics is having control of rhythmic attack so well you can do it at any volume. so ,im with you about technique. i find practicing these ketu grooves right handed then left at differant tempos, gives me a lot of technique .

    im with you about if you cant execute some ideas at 300 , how can you go on the bandstand expecting to do it. for me , the banstand, studio, real time, playing with other people , playing to an audience, is the whole end game . what ever i do i want to be able to take it to the bandstand or i have to discard it. and we should challenge ourselves in practice to what we might meet on the bandstand

    so, im with you on a lot of things...there are a lot of ways to reach a certain leval , most important of all, the will of the individual to put in the time on it.

  13. #137

    User Info Menu

    This is some of the most high-level and intelligent conversation I've heard on the forum in a long time, and I have heard some good stuff here. I've learned so much from you all conversing like this. When solid players seriously talk about what they do in the way you all have, I just feel like I should sit down and take notes, which is pretty much what I'm doing.

    Thanks C77, bons, Reg, rp, everyone, for a really high-level seminar.

  14. #138

    User Info Menu

    hey bonsritmos... Cool, I'm always trying to keep things as simple as possible. Before you go to the moon, you need to learn how to travel. LOL I'm wacked, sorry.

    I keep skills in two categorizes... (and I always use the... Reference... Relationships.. Developments as organization of)

    1) technical skill
    2) performance skills

    So yes... all the skills your talking about... start in #1. And in #1, I've always pushed the physical technical skills on the instrument first, learning how the guitar works, and developing the physical skills from that perspective.

    Speed is a direct result from better understanding of the instrument, and developing playing skills that reflect those understanding of the instrument and our physical skills. (body etc.. how we are personally wired, what type of person we are). I agree with you about Rhythm, it's always the most important, the starting reference.

    yea then #2 the performance skills.... that's another story.

  15. #139

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by bonsritmos
    christian, you are hitting the nail on the head about going back to the early jazz and really hearing the groove they were coming from. for a long time i didnt get it, i heard the rhythm section playing ompa/ompa/ and thought that was the role back then.

    but, its the soloists who are laying down this monster groove . once i plugged into that groove, it all made sence.
    If going back to the those basics helps be able to play music you didn't grow up with - without an accent - that's a great contribution.

    One of the related issues is the degree to which you can even correctly perceive the feel of the music. For example, I recall a session with a good saxophonist who was swinging the 8th notes on a Brazilian tune. He could not perceive the difference. To his ear, those eighths were even.

    This is a huge challenge, I think, in playing groove based music that you didn't learn when you were young. It's comparable to speaking a new language without an accent. If you learn it before age 11 or so, you can sound like a native speaker. Learn it later than that and you have an accent for life.

    In my experience trying to overcome this obstacle, the best thing was to play with musicians who already had the feel and then record everything. I could hear things on playback which were not at all apparent to me in the actual session. I believe that sharpens one's ability to discern problems in rhythmic feel. You can't get this from a book or from a metronome. Maybe from recordings. Better live, I think.

  16. #140

    User Info Menu

    Tell me about it! I’ve been called out for the same thing with Brazilian music.

    So what do you do? Fire up the DAW and get it on the grid, perhaps. (I’ve done that just to get clear on basic distinctions between swing and straight upbeats. Embarrassing to confess, but you need an objective judge.) Record yourself and listen carefully. Whatever it takes. Retrain your ears.

    that’s the thing that aggravates me about so much of the advice that’s given - just transcribe, play with records, play with good drummers. Well, yes, but also - your ears and your innate rhythmic sense can lie to you. You often have to retrain your instincts.

    that’s scary. But it’s been the case for me time and time again. I think people are gaslighting me sometimes lol but I listen back and lo and behold it’s not how I thought it was.

    If you hear a samba fork as a quarter triplet, no amount of jamming with records is going to help you. You need to get specific. That might not be metronome or click stuff necessarily, but it needs specific educated attention.

    its like a language. You might hear a vowel with the wrong sound for instance. There’s a lilt or an accent on one hand, and there’s a basic mistake in the language that might impair communication. And beside accents are not bad things. I hear Brazilians rather like Portuguese spoken with an English accent lol.

    i can even tolerate American accents in my mother tongue ;-)

    drummers get it. They can’t afford to subscribe to comforting fantasies about intuition and rhythm if they want to work.

    OTOH my time is so innately bad (on the instrument in particular which is where Regs points about technique are important) I need all the help I can get haha. I think I’ve got better...

  17. #141

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Tell me about it! I’ve been called out for the same thing with Brazilian music.

    So what do you do? Fire up the DAW and get it on the grid, perhaps. (I’ve done that just to get clear on basic distinctions between swing and straight upbeats. Embarrassing to confess, but you need an objective judge.) Record yourself and listen carefully. Whatever it takes. Retrain your ears.

    that’s the thing that aggravates me about so much of the advice that’s given - just transcribe, play with records, play with good drummers. Well, yes, but also - your ears and your innate rhythmic sense can lie to you. You often have to retrain your instincts.

    that’s scary. But it’s been the case for me time and time again. I think people are gaslighting me sometimes lol but I listen back and lo and behold it’s not how I thought it was.

    If you hear a samba fork as a quarter triplet, no amount of jamming with records is going to help you. You need to get specific. That might not be metronome or click stuff necessarily, but it needs specific educated attention.

    its like a language. You might hear a vowel with the wrong sound for instance. There’s a lilt or an accent on one hand, and there’s a basic mistake in the language that might impair communication. And beside accents are not bad things. I hear Brazilians rather like Portuguese spoken with an English accent lol.

    i can even tolerate American accents in my mother tongue ;-)

    drummers get it. They can’t afford to subscribe to comforting fantasies about intuition and rhythm if they want to work.

    OTOH my time is so innately bad (on the instrument in particular which is where Regs points about technique are important) I need all the help I can get haha. I think I’ve got better...
    Celso Alberti - Brazilian Drums & Percussion Vol 1 – The Loop Loft

    This links to drum loops done by Celso Alberti, who, among other major credits, played with Airto and Flora.

    I have had an opportunity to study a bit with him. This memory sticks in mind. He was demonstrating how to play a 16th note pattern (well, give or take) on a simple egg shaker. When he did it, it felt like the room was transported to Brazil. Nobody else could get the same feel, including some Americans with a lot of experience playing samba.

    He did the drum loops live -- and the groove is exactly what it should be.

    Might be a worthwhile practice tool.

  18. #142

    User Info Menu

    Yea... again, I'm not Brazilian.... but I also play gigs with Brazilian musicians... ton's back in the 70's and 80's...toured... and never had and don't have problems... because I can subdivide and then mechanically get the attack patterns... and adjust as needed to the players. Same with Afro-Cuban or Afro-Caribbean.

    They can all be notated... with accents. So if there is a montuno or clave rhythmic pattern... I'll get it because I understand rhythmic patterns. I worked on my rhythmic chops as a kid, (or maybe it was drum lessons with Alan Dawson back in Boston) ... Again my point is ... I worked on physical rhythmic technique studies... It doesn't take that much time to have the "feel", because I understand... or at least have a mechanical system of breaking down feels rhythmically so I don't have to.... become something to.... perform something.

    I do get it... there are different approaches. I do also like to BS.

  19. #143

    User Info Menu

    lawson-stone , you are as important part of this discusion as anyone. just to feel your desire to get better is fantastic and i feel i could show you or anyone a lot of things that would help them on the bandstand

    reg, performance skills , you arnt kidding, i mean that is really why we are getting this all together , to go out and perform , right? ill tell you another thing to add to that, the next step after you get your playing to a point that you are comfortable playing with all kinds of other people and playing pretty good, is the question " what do my ideas and what im playing really sound like to other people, my bandmates and the audience ?" . which is imposable to really know, yet it is the big kahuna, "how are those ideas coming across?". i always told cats, wait until you listen to the tape before you criticize hahaha . we have no idea what we really sound like as we play.

    but, rp, you made a great point, about listening to yourself in the studio, and yes, playing with better cats . its after a huge amount of playing on the bandstand, listening to the gig tapes, recording , analysing that, over and over, you finaly start to get an idea, only an idea , of how you sound to other people, how you project. of course every accoustic is differant every gig , recording studio, differant. but over that span, you really start to get what you are projecting out there.

    christian, i dont hear weakness of touch in the things i checked out of you . i feel like what you want to cop you will .

    and rp , i hear what you are saying about if you speak a language at 8 you may not have the accent later. for sure authenticity is very valuable. and i can tell you , if someone is in love with brazilian music , to not be in brazil is achingly dificult, and sure was one factor in me making a desician to live in brazil. ive been here more than thirty years , ive also played with some of the top innovators in a few differant idioms in brazil and for sure, contributes to confidence. i am definitly dedicated to not having an accent ...only not in my portuguese speaking hahahaha i dance samba better than i speak portuguese, probably more important to be able to crack off some good samba steps than speak portuguese with out an accent hahaha , yes , my speaking accent is forever , ask my son , who is my biggest ridicular. but i dont have a complex around brazilian musicians like i cant play various brazilian styles . i paid my dues that i can hang , if they dont want me to play with their group , let me get my freinds and play against them .


    but, some of my earliest records in chicago, showed my great afinity for samba ( for sure that hybrid american jazz samba , but some cats like lennie white , alphonce , de johnette, gadd etc kind of make a jazz samba their own and it was pretty killer, not authentic though hahaha), clave, up bop modal swing . i worked a gig with manfredo fest in chicago ( one of the greats i wish i knew then what i know now), i worked in chicago with a dancer who really knew samba , and , while yes, i would never get the depth i know now, i still was burning and had the wild desire and fire in my heart. its not like i know everything in brazil now , there is always something new to blow my mind . these ketu candomble beats are in the last 6 years and its blown my mind, and , seriously , for you, who are obviously invested in learning brazilian music, this is the the stuff that tells you where all those hip brazilian grooves are coming from. that was my original motive of learning ketu condomble, to really tighten up my brazilian grooves to the max .

    in classical music , i think there are rigorous standards that are passed around the world so you get great classical music players all over. but , you can only get next to great brazilian players like you did with the drummer, its not a standard powerful full range study available abound with lots of experts not just a few. i think that is a big reason there is a line of authenticity that is a thin one , in the usa , or anywhere outside of brazil ,of great brazilian styles . but , even in brazil, there is a huge differance in styles and expertice in those styles . if you live one place you arnt going to get the same vantage point of certain styles as the person living where those styles originated from.

  20. #144

    User Info Menu

    Hey rp... you ever hear the Aebersold Brazilan Renato Vasconcellos samples. kind of pop... but fun.

    Years ago, back in the 70's, use to bump into this percussionist (drummer), Kim Plainfield, great gigs, anyway became friends... I went to berklee... He toured and didn't bum into him until late 70's he was really good, with latin/ brazilian feels. Toured with Tania Maria, (besides a ton of other good road gigs). he later hooked up at Berklee anyway he passed away back in 2017... hmmm But he has some good rhythmic books, which push same approach and philosophy I use but a little more modern. He was a technique freak..."technique gives us the tools to make our ideas come to life on our instrument." or something like that... And I still have my Duduka Da Fonseca studies.

    Anyway when we get back on the street... I'll book gig in your area with this latin/brazilian trio I work with Nord keys and kicks bass, a great percussionist and guitar. We can play anything.... we just play jazz tunes to keep audiences from dancing, calm them down...
    Best Reg

  21. #145

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Hey rp... you ever hear the Aebersold Brazilan Renato Vasconcellos samples. kind of pop... but fun.

    Years ago, back in the 70's, use to bump into this percussionist (drummer), Kim Plainfield, great gigs, anyway became friends... I went to berklee... He toured and didn't bum into him until late 70's he was really good, with latin/ brazilian feels. Toured with Tania Maria, (besides a ton of other good road gigs). he later hooked up at Berklee anyway he passed away back in 2017... hmmm But he has some good rhythmic books, which push same approach and philosophy I use but a little more modern. He was a technique freak..."technique gives us the tools to make our ideas come to life on our instrument." or something like that... And I still have my Duduka Da Fonseca studies.

    Anyway when we get back on the street... I'll book gig in your area with this latin/brazilian trio I work with Nord keys and kicks bass, a great percussionist and guitar. We can play anything.... we just play jazz tunes to keep audiences from dancing, calm them down...

    Best Reg
    Reg, I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to hearing your trio -- and just to have life back to normal.

    I have not heard that Aebersold material.

    I heard you play some really good samba comping at that gig. So, I know you know what you're talking about.

    How to develop it is an interesting question. I'd start with this ... why could Celso do something with an egg shaker that the other players couldn't do? We could all hear it, but none of us (all pro or semipro players) could reproduce the feel. Technical skills ... for an egg shaker? I haven't checked out Duduka's books. I've heard him live several times -- monster player. I'm a Trio Da Paz fan -- noting that the last time I heard them at Dizzy's they had 6 people, which is, you know, a little large for a trio. Harry Allen, Claudio Rotiti and Maucha (don't know the surname), so no complaints there.

    I'd say, based on my own and others' experience, that a lot of players have trouble getting the feel right. I guess there are some that can do it.

    Interestingly, I've heard Brazilians occasionally break into swing grooves as a kind of musical joke, and they have always sounded really good.

  22. #146

    User Info Menu



    this is good for the speed thread...just when i think i can hang on the forro thing here is micheal pipoqunho doing their thing from ceara . i mean this is like forro meets return to forever. i didnt want to know that this existed, mess with this rp haha , i dont want to either but i definitly am perked up. this makes the cats from sao paulo look slow hahaha ...but this is the thing in brazil, they have these heavy cats from each region that might not get the same recognition as the sao paulo cats , but forro is natural in ceara

    reg, i knew kim plainfeild, very good drummer. i met him because my first gig in new york was with mike wolff and alex foster . john scofeild was subbing for barry finnerty and kim knew mike and alex from san francisco /oakland , where i think he is from . and kim knew some other cats i was playing with , tony cimorosi , bass player. sorry he passed away , way too soon

  23. #147

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by bonsritmos


    this is good for the speed thread...just when i think i can hang on the forro thing here is micheal pipoqunho doing their thing from ceara . i mean this is like forro meets return to forever. i didnt want to know that this existed, mess with this rp haha , i dont want to either but i definitly am perked up. this makes the cats from sao paulo look slow hahaha ...but this is the thing in brazil, they have these heavy cats from each region that might not get the same recognition as the sao paulo cats , but forro is natural in ceara

    reg, i knew kim plainfeild, very good drummer. i met him because my first gig in new york was with mike wolff and alex foster . john scofeild was subbing for barry finnerty and kim knew mike and alex from san francisco /oakland , where i think he is from . and kim knew some other cats i was playing with , tony cimorosi , bass player. sorry he passed away , way too soon
    That's Pedro Martins on guitar with Michael P. I had a chance to hang a bit with them last summer. I have the impression that MP has extended the envelope on 6 string bass. He plays guitar too. He has, in part, a guitarist's ability on the bass, meaning he can play a bass line along with chords. But, he's added a third element. He can also do that percussive thing at the same time. So, you hear bass notes, chords and percussion all at once, just from the bass. And, he does it while looking completely relaxed, as if it's all pretty easy. I wouldn't be surprised if he plays a bunch of other instruments. I've heard Pedro on drums, keys and bass as well as guitar. Great player.

  24. #148

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Celso Alberti - Brazilian Drums & Percussion Vol 1 – The Loop Loft

    This links to drum loops done by Celso Alberti, who, among other major credits, played with Airto and Flora.

    I have had an opportunity to study a bit with him. This memory sticks in mind. He was demonstrating how to play a 16th note pattern (well, give or take) on a simple egg shaker. When he did it, it felt like the room was transported to Brazil. Nobody else could get the same feel, including some Americans with a lot of experience playing samba.

    He did the drum loops live -- and the groove is exactly what it should be.

    Might be a worthwhile practice tool.
    Thanks RP when I get some to time to actually play again as opposed to sit through lectures on music education theory I will def have a look at this.

  25. #149

    User Info Menu

    So, I'm going to inflict this diagram from a lecture this morning, that I thought was relevant to rp and my experiences. It's a Kolb cycle extended to involve the input of others - such as mentors.

    The really interesting thing is where outside mentorship etc can cause a conflict with someone's sense of self - it might seem like you have to almost stop being yourself until you assimilate this new understanding. It can be profoundly disturbing.

    This really chimes with my own experience esp with regard to rhythm.

    About the speed thing-screenshot-2020-04-16-11-04-58-jpg

  26. #150

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    So ironic. Guitarists and pianists ar e often criticized because we don't phrase like horn players,, allowing "breathing space" in our lines. And here you have horn players trying their best to eliminate the limits imposed by breathing....
    Hi, Lawson,
    I'd like to share something that is my experience with sax players based on my first-hand experience as a working saxophonist for many years: they just want to play. By that, I mean, it seems as if they do not intently listen to other soloists/accompanists when they play. They're just waiting for their turn to solo. Yes, of course, there are exceptions-- as always, but I believe this is a very fair statement. I believe it has to do with personality type--the majority of horn players(sax/trumpet) I know and played with were type A plus. Very few introverts among them . . . perhaps outwardly, but never when playing. One of my favorite Chicago tenor players was the late Von Freeman. He was a quiet man who was a great listener. But, when he put the horn to his lips, he was a dominant bull. This is the norm, not the exception. I believe, in our case, this is also the case with many guitarists who are hard boppers versus those who are chord/melody players or accompanists. Their concept of performance is very different. Good playing . . . Marinero
    Here's Von . . . who ,contrary to most horn players, was a listener.