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  1. #1

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    First lick...

    Chico Pinheiro Analysis thread-chico-lick-2-jpg

    From here (at 4:27)

    EDIT: should be F#, not F natural in bar 1.



    Analysis to follow! Post ideas below...

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  3. #2

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    a super standard bebop lick. honeysuckle rose with chromatic approach notes. appears in basically any pat martino or grant green solo.

  4. #3

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    Yes. It’s very straightforward if you’ve studied that music. You can dig deeper into it of course if you aren’t sure what that means exactly.

    So the whole thing is best understood as two phrases. One is leading in forward motion into beat one of the second bar, the other is leading into beat five of the second bar.

    It is also very similar to some of the more advanced added note scales you might find in Barry Harris’s teaching. (BH never uses the term Honeysuckle motif btw, to him it’s a pivot arpeggio)
    notice the notes on the beat.

    i want to take a look at what Chico plays on Arabesque because it sounds similar and it would be interesting to see how he uses bebop phrases over these more extended chords. He plays this type of figure quite a bit to my ears, obviously under his fingers.

    it’s also a classic example of how actual bop lines tend to mix diatonic and melodic minor options if you want to view it that way. You rarely get either/or. So we could say the line is Lydian dominant/mixo combination. Not the way BH would put it of course.

  5. #4

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    It’s also a 4/4 lick that’s been put into a 5/4 context. Which is slightly more interesting.

    I also like the rhythmic variation in bar 2

  6. #5

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    frans elsen would've called it honeysuckle rose. iirc jerry coker calls it the "gone but not forgotten" lick. you could also see it as a dominant-bebop scale or melodic minor lick with typical chromatic enclosures.

    if a student wanted to play in this style i'd recommend studying "linear expressions" (one of the few books i like) and learning a few pat martino mid 60s bebop solos, like airegin, donna lee or sandu. grant green's "miss ann's tempo" is also a variant of the gone but not forgotten/honeysuckle rose lick.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by djg
    frans elsen would've called it honeysuckle rose. iirc jerry coker calls it the "gone but not forgotten" lick. you could also see it as a dominant-bebop scale or melodic minor lick with typical chromatic enclosures.

    if a student wanted to play in this style i'd recommend studying "linear expressions" (one of the few books i like) and learning a few pat martino mid 60s bebop solos, like airegin, donna lee or sandu. grant green's "miss ann's tempo" is also a variant of the gone but not forgotten/honeysuckle rose lick.
    Interesting. I had no idea it was standard lick, but I haven't listened much to Martino or Green.

    Some observations.

    The third note is a Db, but the 5th note is a D. If that's a flat sign on the third note, it needs a natural sign on the fifth note. Otherwise, it's a good transcription, with the samba "fork" correctly notated in beats 3 and 4 of bar 2.

    Looks like Chico plays the E at the end of bar 1 with his pinkie. That makes a nice, seamless, position shift. Makes the phrase easier to play at that tempo.

    One of the things Chico does with this tune is not play the Dsus at some point during his solo. He'll play part of the solo in full chords and that Dsus will be replaced by xx4554 (among other things), which I'd label D9#11. I think that's a sound he hears and is reflected in this lick. So, one way to view it is "D mixo, some chromatics, and inclusion of the G# to nail the #11 sound against the Dsus in Bar 1 (that's the background chord) and against D9 in bar 2. His groups don't play the Dm during the solos, only during the head. Of course, someone else might say fourth mode A melodic minor and chromatics.

    In a way, it does seem like a 4 beat lick (starting on beat 3, bar 1), ending on the first half of beat 2, bar 2. Then he adds another reference to G# and does it in the Brazilian way with the 16th 8th 16th rhythmic pattern.

    Chico recorded a tune called Cinco on an Edu Ribeiro album. It's worth a listen. I'm struck by how comfortable they are in 5/4. Just a light year away from Brubeck in how free they are to vary the rhythms. It's hard to feel 5/4 like that.

    Any reference to where I can hear another player do this lick?

  8. #7

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    Darn missed another accidental. It is D natural.

  9. #8

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    Tbh I would play lines of this basic type against any D dominant type chord. Don’t discriminate between sus and ordinary. You can flip from one to the other. That distinction is really for the text books.

    STILL - it’s worth noting from a forward motion perspective that Chico does not at any time play into the F#. The one F# that appears is not placed on the beat but does appear on the ‘+’ which for the POV of double time could be thought as the beat. M

    However as the feel is very much half time Brazilian I think that’s really neither here nor there (and according to Hal Galper double time swing is a similar deal.) so we can discount that.

    the featured notes are - d, b, a and cto describe the G# as a #11 to me feels a little artificial. It’s clear as mentioned above it’s function as a lower neighbour in an enlcosure. There’s no more reason to look at them harmonically that the Dbs.

    This is very typical of a dominant/2-5 bebop type line. Think of Scrapple. Whatever way you choose to frame these accidentals they are very common in lines of this type. As I said you could think about combine D mixo/lyd Dom, or D dominant/A minor.

    more tomorrow if I have time.

    Exercise to the student - turn this into a minor ii-v-I lick...

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Tthe featured notes are - d, b, a and cto describe the G# as a #11 to me feels a little artificial. It’s clear as mentioned above it’s function as a lower neighbour in an enlcosure. There’s no more reason to look at them harmonically that the Dbs.

    This is very typical of a dominant/2-5 bebop type line. Think of Scrapple. Whatever way you choose to frame these accidentals they are very common in dominant lines. As I said you could think about combine D mixo/lyd Dom, or D dominant/A minor.

    more tomorrow if I have time .
    To my ear, there is background and foreground. The background is D dominant.

    The foreground is that G#.

    Take it out and the line is vanilla with a one passing chromatic. And, I know for a fact that he emphasizes the G# with the grip I mentioned when he solos in chords.

    I don't hear the G# in the way I hear the C#. (if we think of this as G tonal center, C# is the only other non-diatonic note).

    To me, the C# is connective tissue but the G# is bone. The reason it sounds that way is that both C#'s fall right between a D and C. Passing tone. The G# is the only note in the phrase which is as many as 4 half steps away from its immediate neighbors. That's one reason why it stands out. And, clearly, is intended to stand out. So, it's not just any G#. It's placed to have an impact.

    I can play Scrapple from memory -- I don't hear much similarity. But, I've never put much time into a careful study of bebop lines, except for learning the usual heads and fiddling with the omnibook a little. If you can link to a similar bebop line, I'd appreciate it.

  11. #10

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    Like the thread... seems like might take way too much time to notate out... Doesn't sound like Bebop licks to me... typical Funky... very straight playing. I like it.

    yea... 5/4 3-2 is pretty good groove. If you just lock into the bass line and think of as a melodic rhythmic ostinato.

    How about Jungle or Irrequieto.... I just dig Rafael Barata's playing, his articulations.

  12. #11

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    Jungle is doable.

    Irrequieto has a great line, but it's so fast!

  13. #12

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    Cafe Com Pao. Nova Album. First tune. On youtube at 2:17.

    The chord is Cmaj7.

    The line (I wrote it out in Musescore, saved to pdf and attached it, but it didn't work -- how do I get a picture into a post?) sounds like:

    Ab Bb (high E 16th and 18th)

    Eb Ab (B string then E string at 16th fret)

    Bb Eb (Bb on G string 15th to the same Eb)

    Ab Bb (G string 13th, the two frets higher)

    Eb Ab (D and G strings, 13th)

    Ab Db (11th fret A string to 11th fret D string)

    In C, but plays notes from Db. Adds structure with some fourths and seconds.

    Played in isolation (meaning no chords or reference to a key) it sounds like an inside sounding line that wants to resolve to Ab.

    I hear it as bold in context. This is basically the tail end of a ii V I in Cmajor. Twists your ear, but without breaking it.
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    Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 03-29-2020 at 11:54 PM.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    To my ear, there is background and foreground. The background is D dominant.

    The foreground is that G#.

    Take it out and the line is vanilla with a one passing chromatic. And, I know for a fact that he emphasizes the G# with the grip I mentioned when he solos in chords.

    I don't hear the G# in the way I hear the C#. (if we think of this as G tonal center, C# is the only other non-diatonic note).

    To me, the C# is connective tissue but the G# is bone. The reason it sounds that way is that both C#'s fall right between a D and C. Passing tone. The G# is the only note in the phrase which is as many as 4 half steps away from its immediate neighbors. That's one reason why it stands out. And, clearly, is intended to stand out. So, it's not just any G#. It's placed to have an impact.

    I can play Scrapple from memory -- I don't hear much similarity. But, I've never put much time into a careful study of bebop lines, except for learning the usual heads and fiddling with the omnibook a little. If you can link to a similar bebop line, I'd appreciate it.
    thats a fair point. The G# did jump out at me when I was taking it down. It is also a lower neighbour note in an enclosure. So you have to ask - when Mozart uses similar figures (kind of his thing) is he also using CST sounds? And if not, why not?

    (Or Django. Or Lester Young.)

    So that’s not a question I have a neat answer to. It’s not like people just view music through the original lens - Mozart didn’t know what harmonic functions were but people still analyse his music that way. But it interests me the way we analyse music can change the way we hear it. And CST books (and things like LCC) have classical musicians examples in them, so they are seen as perhaps not just applying to jazz.

    I would be surprised if Chico wasn’t all over the modes (well I think from other things in his playing and his background it’s obvious) but this is a line you could come up with if you didn’t know a Lydian Dominant from a hole in the road.

    Anyway in Scrapple you have the same (diminished) tetrachord (D7) G# A B C, right? The motif is differently arranged but you get that little scale-let an awful lot in bop lines. And then it goes to G just after, so you have that mixing of diatonic dominant and minor basically.

    Tritone subbed that tetrachord becomes one of the most common melodic devices on a resolving dominant.

    BTW when I first heard the line I heard it as an added note scale. More advanced versions of Barry’s scale rules create lines that are not dissimilar. In actual fact it’s not quite that.
    Last edited by christianm77; 03-30-2020 at 06:00 AM.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Cafe Com Pao. Nova Album. First tune. On youtube at 2:17.

    The chord is Cmaj7.

    The line (I wrote it out in Musescore, saved to pdf and attached it, but it didn't work -- how do I get a picture into a post?) sounds like:

    Ab Bb (high E 16th and 18th)

    Eb Ab (B string then E string at 16th fret)

    Bb Eb (Bb on G string 15th to the same Eb)

    Ab Bb (G string 13th, the two frets higher)

    Eb Ab (D and G strings, 13th)

    Ab Db (11th fret A string to 11th fret D string)

    In C, but plays notes from Db. Adds structure with some fourths and seconds.

    Played in isolation (meaning no chords or reference to a key) it sounds like an inside sounding line that wants to resolve to Ab.

    I hear it as bold in context. This is basically the tail end of a ii V I in Cmajor. Twists your ear, but without breaking it.
    OK so again I’m really struck by Chico’s use of rhythmically displaced octave transpositions of motives. We saw this in the first line too. We have that D Db C D cell on beat 3 of bar one and beat 1 of bar two... Also that C G# B A cell recurs, the second time with some variation.

    The first four notes are repeated down an octave as part of a six note phrase, and then the other two notes are different (Ab and Db as opposed to Bb and Eb say.)

    I would say in all the Chico licks I’ve looked at there’s some subtle rhythmic intrigue at work. but that’s where a lot of the jazz is of course.

    Tbh I’ve never found octave transpositions natural to the guitar. they are obvious for piano or Sax.

    So that makes me wonder if Chico practices his scales in octave cells.

  16. #15

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    Harmonically - is that the whole phrase? Can you attach a link to the track? Can’t seem to find it.

    You could stick an E on the end of this lol and stay on the Cmaj, or maybe the chord changes.

    phrases often resolve across the bar line

    EDIT, yes so this is no exception. You gotta tell me the ending. Or it just turns into fucking Lost.

    So this kind of outside playing really relies on skilful resolution. The first bar and half of notes could be complete random garbage, a 12 tone note row, notes selected by the iChing, it doesn't matter, but by resolving the thing to a chord tone by a half step you give it context - especially on beat 1 of the following bar. Now it doesn't resolve one note by half step (for instance E) but two - Ab Db, G D - so the effect is the same. Plus Chico runs the C6 arp for four notes just to make sure we are back home.

    Chico Pinheiro Analysis thread-chico-3-jpg

    Jazz is a bit like German where the end of the sentence makes the whole thing make sense. So you need to be thinking forward to the resolution ---->

    I learned this from Hal Galper's book, Forward Motion

    Here's a couple of Donny McCaslin licks on a Gmaj7 vamp that obey the same sort of logic:

    Chico Pinheiro Analysis thread-donny-mccaslin-line-p1_0001-jpgChico Pinheiro Analysis thread-donny-mccaslin-line-p2_0002-jpg

    Now, that's not to say that intervallic line is random bullshit (neither are the Donny licks). But it could be, and it would still work.

    Now the pitch set is Ab Bb Eb Db, so only four notes. It could relate to a couple of pentatonic scales, but the one that seems most sensible is Db/Bbm, because that relates to G altered scale. (Good trick if you don't know it. Everyone uses that. I think it comes from McCoy Tyner?)

    Db Eb (F) Ab Bb

    So it's G7alt into C major, simple, but done in a nicely modern way.

    Intervallic pentatonics are cool.
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    Last edited by christianm77; 03-30-2020 at 10:57 AM.

  17. #16

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    Chico graduated Berklee. I think he is interested in (and knowledgable about) theory and able to use it in a sophisticated way.

    This line picks a small pitch set, as you pointed out. Seems like a side-slip to me. The chord is C major and he plays, more or less, Db Pentatonic.

    Aside: I have seen him use pentatonics in picking chord voicings ... that is, when playing voicings through a scale, he'll focus on a pentatonic scale in the soprano voice.

    Back to Com Pao (with bread). He plays an interval of a second, followed by two intervals of fourths, and then resolves to C maj with another fourth. Clearly, if something works for him, he's perfectly willing to do it again in a different octave.

    What I've seen in some of the transcriptions is that his lines typically make sense from multiple perspectives. For example, if you look at pairs of adjacent notes you can see a pattern, for example, in the intervals used. Then, if you look at three notes at a time, you may see simple triads (although not necessarily triads in the chord-of-the-moment). And, if you look at the whole line, you may see a scale, mode or arp.

    In this case, the entire line could be conceptualized as a scale or chord (Bb7sus is close, although not the only option for naming it). You can think of it as a sideslip. Or, consided as two notes at a time, it is a second followed by two fourths. Twice.

    Considered three notes at a time, and neglecting the first note, you have three sequences of Bb Eb Ab.

    Considered four notes at a time, it's a pattern of up down up. That is, the second note is higher than the first (up), the third note is lower than the second (down) and the fourth note is up.

    It's as if he's applying multiple levels of organization at once -- thereby creating more structure and allowing the ear to accept some things that, done in a less sophisticated way, might sound un-musical.

    On top of it all, he does it at blazing speed.

    How does a player get there from here?
    Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 03-30-2020 at 04:43 PM.

  18. #17

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    Chick Corea and Dizzy are two good examples of players who play long highly chromatic lines that (go out) and don't seem to make sense but resolve nicely at the end of the line, mitigating the odd outness. They often follow such phrases with simpler shorter catchy melodic phrases that are almost like hooks. Then they go out again...

    In the music of composers such as Haydn and Mozart, the harmony they regularly used in their compositions is referred to as ‘functional'.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Chico graduated Berklee. I think he is interested in (and knowledgable about) theory and able to use it in a sophisticated way.
    Yes I knew that. But you don't have to go to Berklee to know that shit. Most people come to my lessons knowing that shit and they say that they can't play... so....

    Not all modal pitch sets are fungible, folks. At least you need a bit of rhythm. But in fact, rhythm and pitch selection are intimates, not strangers....

    This line picks a small pitch set, as you pointed out. Seems like a side-slip to me. The chord is C major and he plays, more or less, Db Pentatonic.
    It's such a common jazz school trope Db pent on G7alt, so that's probably the way he looks at it.

    Aside: I have seen him use pentatonics in picking chord voicings ... that is, when playing voicings through a scale, he'll focus on a pentatonic scale in the soprano voice.

    Back to Com Pao (with bread). He then plays intervals of 2nds and 4ths, more of the latter. And, if something works for him, he's perfectly willing to do it again in a different octave.

    What I've seen in some of the transcriptions is that his lines typically make sense from multiple perspectives. For example, if you look at pairs of adjacent notes you can see a pattern, for example, in the intervals used. Then, if you look at three notes at a time, you may see simple triads (although not necessarily triads in the chord-of-the-moment). And, if you look at the whole line, you may see a scale, mode or arp.
    Well, yes. So there's a lot to unpack, right? Fun! TBH I always find that with the players I study.

    It's as if he's applying multiple levels of organization at once -- thereby creating more structure and allowing the ear to accept some things that, done in a less sophisticated way, might sound un-musical.

    On top of it all, he does it at blazing speed.

    How does a player get there from here?
    A lot of it does sound like bop phraseology to me - but slightly oblique, modernised. That's interesting for me as a bop grounded player to check out.

    The blazing speed thing is based a lot around modules. That's the way Barry teaches it. At speed. Chain this to this. Like lego. I think that might offend your purist sensibilities, but as we dig into Chico's lines I suspect we'll see a lot of creatively reused material.

    You know the thing about never learn a phrase of more than seven notes? Good advice.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    Chick Corea and Dizzy are two good examples of players who play long highly chromatic lines that (go out) and don't seem to make sense but resolve nicely at the end of the line, mitigating the odd outness. They often follow such phrases with simpler shorter catchy melodic phrases that are almost like hooks. Then they go out again...
    TBH, I think learning how to come out of a phrase is far more important than any amount of vertical harmony. In fact, I think a lot of modern players pull their punches because they've been taught there's 'wrong' notes. Not Donny though! Maybe Chico.

    In the music of composers such as Haydn and Mozart, the harmony they regularly used in their compositions is referred to as ‘functional'.
    Duh.

    But that's 19th century reinterpretation of that music. That's not how they learned. The theory of functional harmony as we understand it today didn't really exist until the 19th century. Rameau had come up with the idea of theoretical roots for chords in the mid 18th century, but no professional composer used it, it was all 5 3, 6 3 and 6 4 chords, which they'd all internalised at the same time as learning the alphabet. It was seen as a theoretical thing, unconnected to the daily reality of composing and improvising music.

    And of course you have stuff like Schenker...

    So yeah, maybe doing a CST of analysis of Mozart is no less messed up :-)

    Does historicity matter? Dunno. I used to care more about it.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Yes I knew that. But you don't have to go to Berklee to know that shit. Most people come to my lessons knowing that shit A lot of it does sound like bop phraseology to me - but slightly oblique, modernised. That's interesting for me as a bop grounded player to check out.
    I edited post #16 to expand the point about multiple ways to view the structure of this line. Please have a look.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Yes I knew that. But you don't have to go to Berklee to know that shit. Most people come to my lessons knowing that shit and they say that they can't play... so....
    .
    My impression is that the more gifted players are better able to utilize theory to improve their music. No surprise there.

    Others, and I include myself, know more theory than they can effectively utilize and have to be judicious.

    It has occurred to me that a Japanese calligrapher, given the opportunity to use any product in a vast art supply store, might still stick to black ink for his art.

    Switching gears: how would a teacher (assuming the teacher could do this himself) help a student advance to the level of playing a line like this?
    If you say, play Db pentatonic, the student isn't going to play a line like this. If you say consider repeating a short phrase in a different octave, you might get closer. If you say, incorporate multiple structural views in 13 notes, what does the student do? And then, do it phrase after phrase at blinding speed.

    How do you approach teaching something like this?

    Aside: I have heard Chico repeat things before. He may very well have a vast repertoire of licks. But, I haven't heard him repeat himself all that often. I've never heard him play anything that didn't sound identifiably like himself. I can't explain how he does it, but I think that examining the placement of that G# is a clue.

  23. #22

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    Man Christian... without some major tonal establishment of Gmaj... those licks would suck... sound like C#maj7 to Ema7, second one C#ma7 to Ema7 to Dmaj7

    I thought this was going to be about Chico tunes... he's very tonal and uses standard out of tonal harmony to create Dominant like function.

  24. #23

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    Since you asked 'what would I do over this section of the tune' I thought I'd see what Chico thought.

    Apols for any errors. That smudge on the third best of bar 3 is meant to be F#. Last note is meant to be Bb lol.

    Chico Pinheiro Analysis thread-arabesca-line-jpg

    Make of this what you will. I have some ideas.

    Right I need to go bed. Maybe tomorrow Sibelius will work!

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Man Christian... without some major tonal establishment of Gmaj... those licks would suck... sound like C#maj7 to Ema7, second one C#ma7 to Ema7 to Dmaj7

    I thought this was going to be about Chico tunes... he's very tonal and uses standard out of tonal harmony to create Dominant like function.
    McCaslin is really OUT here, it's certainly quite arresting, although he does play a few much more 'in' lines before he goes off. Anyway I'm demonstrating the principle of - the end makes good. Yes Chico is much more conventional, but the principle is the same.

    Here's the context, 5:31, you can hear a few more conventional lines before this.


  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    My impression is that the more gifted players are better able to utilize theory to improve their music. No surprise there.
    You just have to practice. A lot. Technical skills as Reg always says.

    I'm not saying you get to play like CP, but that kind of speed and fluency is - pre baked. No one can play something at that speed they haven't played before. Adam Rogers would tell you that. (Even Holdsworth, a lot of familiar figures once you dig into his playing a bit. Digital patterns and so on for him.)


    Others, and I include myself, know more theory than they can effectively utilize and have to be judicious.
    Well isn't that the problem with theory full stop? Theory is, when the rubber hits the road, no longer theory. You have to have it internalised to use it. So any of these analyses could represent 100s of hours of fruitful practice.

    It has occurred to me that a Japanese calligrapher, given the opportunity to use any product in a vast art supply store, might still stick to black ink for his art.

    Switching gears: how would a teacher (assuming the teacher could do this himself) help a student advance to the level of playing a line like this?
    If you say, play Db pentatonic, the student isn't going to play a line like this.
    The first step I think is fairly obvious - teach them to connect - so any scale, line, arpeggio, pent, whatever, is joined up to the resolution. Remember- we play the changes, not chords. You have to connect with your target, and in general this is done through the bar line. (Hence the funky beaming in the McCaslin examples.) Using a slur from the upbeat into that resolving downbeat is not a bad idea.

    Don't teach them the altered scale. Teach them the altered scale resolving by step or half step into chord tones of C or Cm, right? Doing it with Db pentatonic would be a great start actually, familiar fingerings.

    Next, you have to teach them how to phrase in forward motion. One good exercise, work backwards. So take the last line I posted, start from the Bb, and work back one note at a time, until it joins together.

    Lastly, they have to practice constructing lines this way.

    If you say consider repeating a short phrase in a different octave, you might get closer. If you say, incorporate multiple structural views in 13 notes, what does the student do? And then, do it phrase after phrase at blinding speed.

    How do you approach teaching something like this?
    In terms of line construction - I don't know if Chico ever studied with Barry (I doubt it) but Barry's approach speaks to a psychological idea called chunking. Every fast player does it. So you construct a fast line in Barrry's class - at tempo - by combining chunks. A descending scale here, an arpeggio here, a little motif, and so, right? So each beat, or two beats can be thought of as the start of a separate chunk that can be joined together.

    Adam Rogers said 'if you can play something fast, you've played it before' so to avoid playing pre-baked licks all the time, this modular approach is the best way to go. Little phrase-lets you can chain together. You can see Chico doing this in the first line, right? Plain as anything.

    Now technically these are also things you can play AT SPEED. So you practice them to start with a downstroke and work on getting them nice and smooth when you repeat them, or whatever it is you need to do...

    You obviously need someone with their 'technical skills together and a good command of the fretboard to do this.

    The trick of it is - you also need to get good at joining them, because they are chunked together on the beat, and you need to phrase through to get it into forward motion. So you don't just have a set of unconnected chunks. Stuff like, if your last chunk ends on a G, your next chunk might start on an F, that sort of thing.

    With Barry we just kind of did it.

    Aside: I have heard Chico repeat things before. He may very well have a vast repertoire of licks. But, I haven't heard him repeat himself all that often. I've never heard him play anything that didn't sound identifiably like himself. I can't explain how he does it, but I think that examining the placement of that G# is a clue.
    It's all in the little motives and chunks. As Scott Henderson says 'don't learn anything that's more than 7 notes long.' That way you can improvise but you can do it fluidly rather than thinking/hearing every note.

    Definitely bed time now.
    Last edited by christianm77; 03-30-2020 at 06:35 PM.

  27. #26

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    So you construct a fast line in Barrry's class - at tempo - by combining chunks. A descending scale here, an arpeggio here, a little motif, and so, right? So each beat, or two beats can be thought of as the start of a separate chunk that can be joined together.”

    I like that description. And I think there is a big difference between knowing lots of theory and being able to play lots of theory. Being able to effortlessly apply theory in improvisation is when the the player’s creative process is partly directed by his concept of theory. Many aspiring players can’t do it.
    ”You play what you know” Chick Corea replied when asked how does a musician improvise.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    You just have to practice. A lot. Technical skills as Reg always says.

    I'm not saying you get to play like
    It's all in the little motives and chunks. As Scott Henderson says 'don't learn anything that's more than 7 notes long.' That way you can improvise but you can do it fluidly rather than thinking/hearing every note.

    Definitely bed time now.
    All of that makes perfect sense. All the tools.

    But, I confess to not quite believing it. I hear players who can do those things and they leave me cold. I hear other players who can do those things and I want to hear more. One prescription, presented multiple times by a teacher posting on another forum, is MORE THEORY!! But, his playing left me cold. I could hear the oddly shaped pegs being forced into the holes.

    I get the feeling that, after you've gone through all the didactics and practiced them for years, at that point the Almighty is supposed to infuse your playing with melodicism and emotion - but might not.

    Not that there's necessarily a short cut.

    My inclination is to include, in one's practice regimen, some time for scat-singing and putting the lines you like on the guitar. Also, for copying lines you like by both singing them and putting them on the guitar. But, that's just my taste. I often like to hear (and prefer to play, as best I can) a singable line. I tend to prefer players who play fewer notes with what strikes me as great melody and flowing harmony. Jim Hall's ballad playing. Wes. Vic Juris when I heard him live in the last few years (although he could burn too. RIP).
    Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 03-30-2020 at 08:07 PM.

  29. #28

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    Popo. Live. Bm7 E9 vamp.

    0:10.

    I'll figure out how to get a picture eventually.

    eighths. shown here even, but not. 6 beats shown

    xx xx ox xx / ox x

    G#3 D3
    D3 G#4
    D3 G#4
    D4 D4
    G#4.

    This one caught my ear. It's 3rds and 7ths. Two octaves.

    What about this makes it stand out? Two notes.

    I think it's a European police siren of a lick. It's the tritone interval. It's the rhythmic placement. It's the way he goes up an octave.

    What else?

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    So you construct a fast line in Barrry's class - at tempo - by combining chunks. A descending scale here, an arpeggio here, a little motif, and so, right? So each beat, or two beats can be thought of as the start of a separate chunk that can be joined together.”

    I like that description. And I think there is a big difference between knowing lots of theory and being able to play lots of theory. Being able to effortlessly apply theory in improvisation is when the the player’s creative process is partly directed by his concept of theory. Many aspiring players can’t do it.
    ”You play what you know” Chick Corea replied when asked how does a musician improvise.
    Well if I was going to be super pedantic about it (what me?) I would say it is of course impossible to play theory. I don’t think jazz musicians are really interested in theory in the academic sense; I think what they are interested in is resources.

    Secondly Chick Corea like Barry would advise you to compose your first chorus.

    when I heard that, along with other stuff I thought; you know great musicians don’t spend time worrying about if they are doing right do they? They just grab what they need and make music

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    All of that makes perfect sense. All the tools.

    But, I confess to not quite believing it. I hear players who can do those things and they leave me cold. I hear other players who can do those things and I want to hear more. One prescription, presented multiple times by a teacher posting on another forum, is MORE THEORY!! But, his playing left me cold. I could hear the oddly shaped pegs being forced into the holes.

    I get the feeling that, after you've gone through all the didactics and practiced them for years, at that point the Almighty is supposed to infuse your playing with melodicism and emotion - but might not.

    Not that there's necessarily a short cut.

    My inclination is to include, in one's practice regimen, some time for scat-singing and putting the lines you like on the guitar. Also, for copying lines you like by both singing them and putting them on the guitar. But, that's just my taste. I often like to hear (and prefer to play, as best I can) a singable line. I tend to prefer players who play fewer notes with what strikes me as great melody and flowing harmony. Jim Hall's ballad playing. Wes. Vic Juris when I heard him live in the last few years (although he could burn too. RIP).
    and I respect that enormously.

    But if you want to learn to spin out these double time prog bop lines, this is the way I’d go about working on it. Tbh I think this is one aspect of jazz guitar playing that is actually pretty nuts and bolts. If you do it enough it does become intuitive.

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar


    Popo. Live. Bm7 E9 vamp.

    0:10.

    I'll figure out how to get a picture eventually.

    eighths. shown here even, but not. 6 beats shown

    xx xx ox xx / ox x

    G#3 D3
    D3 G#4
    D3 G#4
    D4 D4
    G#4.

    This one caught my ear. It's 3rds and 7ths. Two octaves.

    What about this makes it stand out? Two notes.

    I think it's a European police siren of a lick. It's the tritone interval. It's the rhythmic placement. It's the way he goes up an octave.

    What else?
    to upload you have the comment editor open and you use the little thing that looks like a picture next to the world with an x on it on one side and the film strip on the other. Once you’ve done that you can use the options to upload a doc from your computer.

    it’s a bit annoying, but it does work.

  33. #32

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    You can upload a picture like this as Christian says. Use the 3rd icon from the right (lower row, you can just about see it highlighted in blue below), locate the file then select ‘upload file(s)’. Like this:

    Chico Pinheiro Analysis thread-816d50b3-be65-47dd-a53e-10acbcfd658a-jpg

  34. #33

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    So just from a performance point of view... the solo section is just a somewhat extended vamp.

    Again either soloing or comping... simple 16 bar form... An "A" section with a "B"

    their 4 bars each... so... A A A B and the B section functions as a turnaround.

    The "A" section uses simple melodic line, (or line cliche) of , G F# F F#. a variation of Minor 5 #5 6 #5... the old "Secret Agent Man" thing. But expanded to W. Shorter version from 80's to G F# F F# and instead of, (in Chico's tune) using Amin. he uses the relative V chord, so

    D9sus D9 D-9 D9. The modern application also expands the harmonic tonal targets,

    D9sus become "A-7 D7" with Adorian and Dmixo... with any typical expanded relationships, to

    D9 becomes "D9 D7#11" with Dmixo to D Lydian Dom, ( Amm), to

    D-9 with whatever expansion you want

    So the Line Cliche and harmony are basically Tonal Targets... expanded... The Targets become "chord patterns" with Tonics that have multiple chords or modes.

    The "B" section is also just a variation of the Line Cliche and harmony .... "take it to the IV chord", must be a James Brown fan.... This time he uses the Line Cliche as Root motion...

    G-9 ... Simple subdominant IV-, 1st note of line cliche

    Gb7#9 (Just Sub V of...II V right, G-7 to C7) 2nd note of L.C.

    Bb13 (optional #11) the Related V7 of F-7 or 3rd note of L.C. (typ. compositional rule of changing the 3rd version of anything. and then on to the rest of variation of Line Cliche....
    A7b13... with typical expanded Dominant harmonic and lick rhythmic kicks'

    The improve is again pretty typical.... good musicians using a Standard "Form" with expanded Tonal Target types of Tonics and interacting.... and yea the Brazilian folk roots don't hurt.( all the standard rhythm licks).

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar


    Popo. Live. Bm7 E9 vamp.

    0:10.

    I'll figure out how to get a picture eventually.

    eighths. shown here even, but not. 6 beats shown

    xx xx ox xx / ox x

    G#3 D3
    D3 G#4
    D3 G#4
    D4 D4
    G#4.

    This one caught my ear. It's 3rds and 7ths. Two octaves.

    What about this makes it stand out? Two notes.

    I think it's a European police siren of a lick. It's the tritone interval. It's the rhythmic placement. It's the way he goes up an octave.

    What else?
    btw if you are police siren, my last lick is ‘puppy power.’

    this is I think the secret to Chico. We’re getting there.

  36. #35

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    Sorry Reg, what example are you talking about?

  37. #36

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    Hey Christian... Tempestade, the 1st Vid

  38. #37

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    Isn't that lick just standard II V lick... harmonically... B-7 the 3rd or "D" to D9sus D7 or "A" to G# the sus resolve version of II V. (B-7 sus resolve... "E" to "D"). And you can move the lick up by tritone if you want to expand the lick

    So... E D / A G# / up 8va etc... there are some pretty standard licks that use same approach for implying 2 chord vamps.

    So B-11 B-7 ...E9sus E9 ... B E F#D / E A B G# / again up 8va

    I mean modern brazilian seems to like II V's, and uses the same Dorian/Mixo relationships with Dorian expansion to MM relationships for Vamps. (like to get funky)

  39. #38

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    Rp... I know more pop... but early Eliane with Steps Ahead was cool jazz and brazilian... well not that much brazilian, but 35+ years ago. Anyway the Brazilian Jazz fusion thing was great time to be giging.



  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Isn't that lick just standard II V lick... harmonically... B-7 the 3rd or "D" to D9sus D7 or "A" to G# the sus resolve version of II V. (B-7 sus resolve... "E" to "D"). And you can move the lick up by tritone if you want to expand the lick

    So... E D / A G# / up 8va etc... there are some pretty standard licks that use same approach for implying 2 chord vamps.

    So B-11 B-7 ...E9sus E9 ... B E F#D / E A B G# / again up 8va

    I mean modern brazilian seems to like II V's, and uses the same Dorian/Mixo relationships with Dorian expansion to MM relationships for Vamps. (like to get funky)
    Pretty much, but I wanted to dig into stuff beyond the harmony which is fairly obvious for all the examples so far. I mean it’s all undergraduate jazz school shit harmonically, but Chico makes it sound good.

    he is a linguistic player too. He sounds like he’s copped a lot of bop. Those linguistic touches, little half steps, changes of direction, use of repeated motifs, rhythmic interest all add a lot to me.

    ill post the open triad licks I did in my vid when I get a chance. Straightforward from an analysis perspective but I haven’t heard too many others use that sound.

  41. #40

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    Cool thanks... the linguistics sound like standard beginning composition basics. Back in the late 70's, and for a few years.... after. The same thing was going on... bring on the latest pop figure and your off running. Don't get me wrong... I love Brazilian pop. I'll keep watching maybe post some BS

  42. #41

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    The head to Tempestade uses that Dm. He doesn't use it in the solo section.

    After the repeated Dsus D9, I hear it as Gm9 C13 Ebmaj7#11 E7#9 Aalt. I usually play xx3335 and then slide the note on the D string down a half step, twice. Or, at the 8th fret, xx8 10 10 10, drop the F to an E and then play xx88 10 10.

    I think Christian said a lot when he wrote "he makes it sound good". The analysis shows that his note choices can be understood from common perspectives. But, the overall sound transcends that. He isn't just running Amelmin. He's finding a way to bring the sound of that G# into the foreground in a way that both surprises and pleases the ear. I think, to do him justice, you have to simultaneously analyze the melody, harmony and rhythmic placement. And, I don't have any tools for verbal analysis of melody, although I assume they must exist.

    And, it is quite remarkable how fast he can play this style, with every note pristene. We haven't even mentioned his ability to play cleanly articulated notes at breakneck speed.

  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Pretty much, but I wanted to dig into stuff beyond the harmony which is fairly obvious for all the examples so far. I mean it’s all undergraduate jazz school shit harmonically, but Chico makes it sound good.

    he is a linguistic player too. He sounds like he’s copped a lot of bop. Those linguistic touches, little half steps, changes of direction, use of repeated motifs, rhythmic interest all add a lot to me.

    ill post the open triad licks I did in my vid when I get a chance. Straightforward from an analysis perspective but I haven’t heard too many others use that sound.
    Are we talking about things like he did in Triades?

    I was surprised to find that he plays that with a pick, even though it's easier finger style -- and he has a great right hand for both pick and fingers.

    One reason we may not hear open triads so much is that they aren't easy to play.

  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    The head to Tempestade uses that Dm. He doesn't use it in the solo section.

    After the repeated Dsus D9, I hear it as Gm9 C13 Ebmaj7#11 E7#9 Aalt. I usually play xx3335 and then slide the note on the D string down a half step, twice. Or, at the 8th fret, xx8 10 10 10, drop the F to an E and then play xx88 10 10.

    I think Christian said a lot when he wrote "he makes it sound good". The analysis shows that his note choices can be understood from common perspectives. But, the overall sound transcends that. He isn't just running Amelmin. He's finding a way to bring the sound of that G# into the foreground in a way that both surprises and pleases the ear. I think, to do him justice, you have to simultaneously analyze the melody, harmony and rhythmic placement. And, I don't have any tools for verbal analysis of melody, although I assume they must exist.
    TBF that’s true of most jazz improvisers that we might deem worthy of transcription. I could do this with pretty much any prominent player and go as deep.

    I like Chico’s style though. It’s quite unpretentious and fiery. Strong rhythms. I like the no reverb thing as well, more of an acoustic tone.

    And, it is quite remarkable how fast he can play this style, with every note pristene. We haven't even mentioned his ability to play cleanly articulated notes at breakneck speed.
    Most guys in NYC can do this to be fair. Not that it isn’t impressive, because NYC = top of the tree, it’s just the bar of technique these days among jazz players in the way it want maybe 30 years ago. They all grew up on Vai.

    Kids even more so. Go hang out in Instagram and come back to me when your eyebrows have grown back haha

  45. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Are we talking about things like he did in Triades?

    I was surprised to find that he plays that with a pick, even though it's easier finger style -- and he has a great right hand for both pick and fingers.

    One reason we may not hear open triads so much is that they aren't easy to play.
    no, the lick was tempestade. Not too tough to play but very ear catching line.

    (secret of Triades is to do DDU. that’s how Chico seems to do it, and it is oddly easier than alternating. That’s the way Lage Lund does arps as well.)

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Since you asked 'what would I do over this section of the tune' I thought I'd see what Chico thought.

    Apols for any errors. That smudge on the third best of bar 3 is meant to be F#. Last note is meant to be Bb lol.

    Chico Pinheiro Analysis thread-arabesca-line-jpg

    Make of this what you will. I have some ideas.

    Right I need to go bed. Maybe tomorrow Sibelius will work!
    So anyway analysis of this bit.

    so RP posted the chords and said what would you play on these and I said something like bop if I was reading, but dim scales would be text book, although I’d be looking to put in some triads?

    well yeah. So we have a ‘puppy power’ style fanfare figure repeated twice. The first time it’s F7 on D7. Dim symmetry.

    then a descending chromatic that winds its way into Db half whole - heavily anticipated by about a beat.

    Notice that he uses chromatics to make it sound more interesting. Breaks up the stepwise movement with enclosures.

    He anticipates the next chord which is C alt. He uses the Ab major triad sound (actually 1-2-3-5) in this case which is a really good way of getting the altered scale sound without playing the scale. He then plays more fully on the scale breaking it up in an interesting way rhythmically and resolving chromatically to the F7sus chord.

    Useful line to study because I don’t use much half whole stuff. it’s all stock stuff tbh, well executed and conceived. Nothing you wouldn’t see in a Sax solo of the past 40 years or so.

  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    TBF that’s true of most jazz improvisers that we might deem worthy of transcription. I could do this with pretty much any prominent player and go as deep.

    I like Chico’s style though. It’s quite unpretentious and fiery. Strong rhythms. I like the no reverb thing as well, more of an acoustic tone.



    Most guys in NYC can do this to be fair. Not that it isn’t impressive, because NYC = top of the tree, it’s just the bar of technique these days among jazz players in the way it want maybe 30 years ago. They all grew up on Vai.

    Kids even more so. Go hang out in Instagram and come back to me when your eyebrows have grown back haha
    I've been going to NYC twice a year and hearing guitar players. Names you know. Some top players glitch notes in every solo. Well, maybe it's more the older guys.

    An aside: I attended a session a couple of months ago with a name drummer. One of the players insisted on talking through the charts in advance every time, mostly reviewing the roadmaps, which weren't all that straightforward, although the charts were correct. Eventually, the drummer's patience was exceeded. He said, "Let's just play it and make it sound good". This discussion reminds of that incident. We try to dissect the lines, but there is a level of making the music "sound good" which is difficult to appreciate in writing.

    For example, making that G# stand out. Strikes me as a significant thing to be able to do, but finding a way to incorporate that idea into one's playing seems elusive.

  48. #47

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    I would say there’s been a steep advance in technical ability. So a few things have come together for this to happen, but electric guitar technique is I think more differentiated from old school acoustic archtop guitar technique, and amount of info in this area is improving all the time. I don’t think it’s down to talent at all. I don’t think the younger players are more talented than the older ones, they just have that stuff dialled in because they knew how to break it down.

    things like using slurs in one’s articulation makes a big difference, for instance. Chico does this - you can hear it when you slow him down. Also economy picking... lighter strings, softer pick attack etc etc for many players, that direction started by Jim Hall but continued by early Metheny, Abercrombie etc

    None of which is to say Chico’s chops aren’t ridiculous it’s just - so are those of Jonathan Kreisberg, Lage Lund, Gilad Heckselman, Mike Moreno, Nir Felder, Pasquale Grasso, Charles Altura, Dan Wilson etc etc. They all have brutal chops. And I see so many players coming up... so this is more of an expectation in pro players.

    TBH my chops are pretty decent in that I understand how it works well enough to teach it as well. Chops are - one of the quantifiable bits. You don’t have to be talented to do that, just taught by someone who understands the mechanics and patient enough to do what they say.

    I don’t really see the G# as that big of a deal. Go look at some Cannonball for instance. It’s a real boppy thing to do.

    im not saying it isn’t cool, I just see it as fairly typical jazz language.
    Last edited by christianm77; 03-31-2020 at 05:03 PM.

  49. #48

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    Just to be clear - I don’t want to come across like I feel that Chico isn’t awesome badass and inspiring, because he is. I’m just aware there are aspects of his playing which I understand in that I know how to develop and hone them given time and focus.

    That doesn’t mean I will in fact develop them, but I get how a lot of it is worked on, and that’s pretty exciting in its own way.

    Because I’ll never play like him or any of the others I’ve mentioned - but I can use his playing to develop mine, if that makes sense. I think that’s something players have always done.

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    So anyway analysis of this bit.

    so RP posted the chords and said what would you play on these and I said something like bop if I was reading, but dim scales would be text book, although I’d be looking to put in some triads?

    well yeah. So we have a ‘puppy power’ style fanfare figure repeated twice. The first time it’s F7 on D7. Dim symmetry.

    then a descending chromatic that winds its way into Db half whole - heavily anticipated by about a beat.

    Notice that he uses chromatics to make it sound more interesting. Breaks up the stepwise movement with enclosures.

    He anticipates the next chord which is C alt. He uses the Ab major triad sound (actually 1-2-3-5) in this case which is a really good way of getting the altered scale sound without playing the scale. He then plays more fully on the scale breaking it up in an interesting way rhythmically and resolving chromatically to the F7sus chord.

    Useful line to study because I don’t use much half whole stuff. it’s all stock stuff tbh, well executed and conceived. Nothing you wouldn’t see in a Sax solo of the past 40 years or so.
    I hear those pickup notes as F Bb D. The chart says Eb lydian there.

    I don't hear the F E in beat 3, bar 1 except maybe faintly? Maybe if my speaker was bigger than 3/4 of an inch?

    I didn't verify the notes over the C.

    So, my take on this, subject to further analysis is ...

    The pickup notes are a Bb triad, right out of Eb lydian.

    He then plays D7 with altered ninths. That's beat 1.

    Beat 2, thankfully, is a rest.

    Beat 3, starts on the same note as beat 1 and is entirely chromatic.

    Beat 4, gets more interesting. First note continues the chromatic. It happens to be a Db. Against D7, Mark Levine might gag. But, Chico seems to anticipate the Db7 by playing root, 6, b7 root.

    Beat 5, stays interesting. Structurally, it's another chromatic with a switcharoo on the Gb and G. It mirrors, albeit not quite perfectly, the structure of Beat 4. Enough variation that you recognize it, but with a rise where there had been a fall (the Bb in Beat 6 compared to the Bb in Beat 4).

    Perhaps the most interesting thing is where he starts the chromatic line in Beat 5. Why Bb? One guess -- the chord in the chart is Db13#11. That's Db F G B Eb Bb. I think, he's thinking tritone. That is, he starts on F for the D7 in beat 1, the #9. Then, he does the exact same thing -- starting on the #9 of beat 5 -- except he's thinking Galt.

    Beat 6. continues the Galt idea while remaining structurally similar to the previous bar.

    Beat 7 has the altered ninths of the Galt and then repeats C and Eb. As we discussed before, Chico's lines can be analyzed n-notes at a time. If you consider Beat 7 as a 4 note phrase, it's in Ab. If you consider it two notes at a time, you get the altered ninths of Galt followed by a beat-and-a-half anticipation of the Calt.

    Beats 7 and 8 are, in the chart, listed as Db7#11b9, although it's not clear how much he's thinking about that.

    Beats 9-12 look like a Calt lick with #9 b13 b9 and #11. The first three notes are an Ab triad, but then he plays an E. It sounds augmented to me, which is a sound I hear a lot in his improvisation.

    To sum up. Gross structural consistency in overall melodic shape between bars 1 and 2. Chord changes are anticipated. A very good ear for using extensions to create melody. And, so quick that the ear doesn't have time to reject it.

  51. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    I hear those pickup notes as F Bb D. The chart says Eb lydian there.
    I think you might be right about the Bb, I wasn’t sure actually.

    it still does for both in fact. But the phrase is a pick up/anacrusis. You are a Brazilian music fan right? Things happen ahead of the beat. The new chord starts on the push, Gilberto sings half a bar ahead, etc. That type of thing.

    My guess Chico is DONE with Eb Lydian at that point. The anticipations on the other chords make that a reasonable assumption.

    I also get a strong impression from your comments you haven’t looked into much bop.

    I would recommend ‘Forward Motion’ for an alternative perspective. Actually changed my life. I remember reading that and transcribing Bud Powell at the same time and going ‘oh.’

    Music is not a set of vertical slices, but a narrative. Not that you give a shit about what I say lol.

    I don't hear the F E in beat 3, bar 1 except maybe faintly? Maybe if my speaker was bigger than 3/4 of an inch?

    I didn't verify the notes over the C.

    So, my take on this, subject to further analysis is ...

    The pickup notes are a Bb triad, right out of Eb lydian.

    He then plays D7 with altered ninths. That's beat 1.

    Beat 2, thankfully, is a rest.

    Beat 3, starts on the same note as beat 1 and is entirely chromatic.

    Beat 4, gets more interesting. First note continues the chromatic. It happens to be a Db. Against D7, Mark Levine might gag. But, Chico seems to anticipate the Db7 by playing root, 6, b7 root.

    Beat 5, stays interesting. Structurally, it's another chromatic with a switcharoo on the Gb and G. It mirrors, albeit not quite perfectly, the structure of Beat 4. Enough variation that you recognize it, but with a rise where there had been a fall (the Bb in Beat 6 compared to the Bb in Beat 4).

    Perhaps the most interesting thing is where he starts the chromatic line in Beat 5. Why Bb? One guess -- the chord in the chart is Db13#11. That's Db F G B Eb Bb. I think, he's thinking tritone. That is, he starts on F for the D7 in beat 1, the #9. Then, he does the exact same thing -- starting on the #9 of beat 5 -- except he's thinking Galt.
    Yes, I agree. Or, pretty much what I said haha. Good point on the motif.

    The start of the phrase is not always harmonically important. A phrase can start on any note - could be the maj 7 on a Dom or the 4 on a major, say- it’s how it moves that’s important.

    That said, I do agree that the Bb is kind of interesting. if you take this in combination with the previous four notes, it looks to me like Chico is sort of outlining a Go7 chord here (really just a triad)

    So I just kind of think Db half whole line, which is the obvious choice for that chord symbol (Db7b9#11 or whatever it was?) from CST. There’s more to it than that, but I reckon that’s what he was thinking.

    I think Chico is Very Levine-esque actually in his note choices. Anticipation and chromatic passing tones aren’t forbidden!

    Beat 6. continues the Galt idea while remaining structurally similar to the previous bar.

    Beat 7 has the altered ninths of the Galt and then repeats C and Eb. As we discussed before, Chico's lines can be analyzed n-notes at a time. If you consider Beat 7 as a 4 note phrase, it's in Ab. If you consider it two notes at a time, you get the altered ninths of Galt followed by a beat-and-a-half anticipation of the Calt.

    Beats 7 and 8 are, in the chart, listed as Db7#11b9, although it's not clear how much he's thinking about that.

    Beats 9-12 look like a Calt lick with #9 b13 b9 and #11. The first three notes are an Ab triad, but then he plays an E. It sounds augmented to me, which is a sound I hear a lot in his improvisation.
    Yes. He’s actually playing a descending Dbmin(maj)9 arp on it which is as obvious a thing to do on the melodic minor as you get... James Bond, right?

    Classic language...

    and it does have to be the Dbmel min and not C altered that is used as an arpeggio, right? Why’s that?

    To sum up. Gross structural consistency in overall melodic shape between bars 1 and 2. Chord changes are anticipated. A very good ear for using extensions to create melody. And, so quick that the ear doesn't have time to reject it.
    Again most post bop improvisers use these techniques a lot. It’s the toolkit you need for that music. It’s kind of bop rhythmic and melodic techniques applied to CST harmony.
    Last edited by christianm77; 04-01-2020 at 07:12 AM.