The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #101

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    Yea ... Warren type I chords are chords constructed on the "First Degree of the Major Scale"

    I Major Chordas
    Imaj7, Imaj6, Imaj9, Imaj69

    I Minor Chords
    Imin, Imin6, Imin7, Imin9

    His type I chords Function as "Tonic" or "home base", so if your into Function or Family type names...your in.
    Anyway... chords without a 11th

    He calls Major type chords constructed on the Fifth Degree of the Maj Scale ...Type V tonic chords... and they're all interchangeable and demand resolution to a Type I chord. (except when you get to his Jazz Blues) (again what a shock)

    Dom. 7th resolve to Type I Chords or move in cycles of 5ths and Dom.7th chords are also usually preceded by a Type II Chord.... (what a shock).

    Type II Chords
    Min chords constructed on the Second Degree of the Maj Scale , all of then, and as Warren states, In Jazz Type Two Chords .... Function as an alternate for the IV Chord. And again the normal progression of type II Chords is to the V Type Chord or the I Type Chord. (again what a shock)

    He also calls -7b5 chords either, 1) a Min 6th chord or a NR 7th chord A-7b5 is C-6 is NR F9 is A-7b5, and C-6 can be Type I Chord on 1st degree of minor scale or NR Type V chord.

    Dim. and Aug. (WT) are passing chords.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

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    Reading all of the comments and responses above it seems that somewhere along the line the idea of playing to the melody got lost and the theorists hijacked jazz. Nearly all of the comments have intellectualized the function of jazz and the function of improvisation. These are precisely the conversations and elitism that frighten new players away from jazz and away from wanting to learn to improvise. Theory is simply a tool, no player is thinking in terms of modes or scales when playing live, it's happening too fast.
    I read interviews in guitar publications that go something like "So, in the second verse you decided to go lydian instead of the more common ionian until the third measure when you shifted to locrian and then back to ionian, what was your thought process?"
    The artist, not having a clue what the interviewer was saying, answers with the ambiguous "Yeah, that's right, I mean like Dude, it's all about change, right?"
    But unfortunately thousands of budding guitarists are going to throw up their hands in frustration because we have over-intellectualized the process of MAKING MUSIC.
    I didn't see a single comment that said play to the melody, play to the song, all I read was theory and math, no chemistry.
    I read a story about a very famous jazz leader interviewing a young musician for his orchestra and at some point the young man said "I am a great sight reader" to which the leader said "Son, no one can hear you reading"

  4. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Wish people would stop saying Bach is jazz, or stop saying "triggered?"

    I dunno. Bach totally didn't swing, man.

    :-)

  5. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Wish people would stop saying Bach is jazz, or stop saying "triggered?"

    I dunno. Bach totally didn't swing, man.

    Let's see...





  6. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Let's see...




    HOLY FUCKING SHIT THAT WAS WHAT WAS SET ME OFF IT WAS ON THE RADIO EARLIER

    It still doesn’t swing

  7. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Let's see...

    Nice.

    Chopin swings too


  8. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundogg52
    Reading all of the comments and responses above it seems that somewhere along the line the idea of playing to the melody got lost and the theorists hijacked jazz. Nearly all of the comments have intellectualized the function of jazz and the function of improvisation. These are precisely the conversations and elitism that frighten new players away from jazz and away from wanting to learn to improvise. Theory is simply a tool, no player is thinking in terms of modes or scales when playing live, it's happening too fast.
    I read interviews in guitar publications that go something like "So, in the second verse you decided to go lydian instead of the more common ionian until the third measure when you shifted to locrian and then back to ionian, what was your thought process?"
    The artist, not having a clue what the interviewer was saying, answers with the ambiguous "Yeah, that's right, I mean like Dude, it's all about change, right?"
    But unfortunately thousands of budding guitarists are going to throw up their hands in frustration because we have over-intellectualized the process of MAKING MUSIC.
    I didn't see a single comment that said play to the melody, play to the song, all I read was theory and math, no chemistry.
    I read a story about a very famous jazz leader interviewing a young musician for his orchestra and at some point the young man said "I am a great sight reader" to which the leader said "Son, no one can hear you reading"
    So you’re not wrong lol, just got ‘nah don’t do theory dude’ from somebody who has decided I’m a theory dude. Don’t you just hate it when that happens especially when you’ve been doing the same thing? :-)

    Melodies are good.

    TBH if you learn enough songs with changes as, well standard, as .... er .... standards you are going to come up with a theory of how these chords move and how people soloing on them approach them anyway. Unless you are thick, of course. But actually capable jazz musicians tend not to be thick in my experience, probably for that reason.

  9. #108

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    It’s all going on all the time
    melody isn’t lost, we’re just talking about chord types. And when your actually performing, Rhythm will trump almost anything
    (no relationship to US F**** U* Pres

  10. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    HOLY FUCKING SHIT THAT WAS WHAT WAS SET ME OFF IT WAS ON THE RADIO EARLIER

    It still doesn’t swing
    My apologies for posting it. The forum is supposed to be a safe space.

  11. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    My apologies for posting it. The forum is supposed to be a safe space.
    Too late, I've cancelled you.

  12. #111

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    Some more Warren Nunes stuff.

    I have several of his books on my shelf, so I pulled them out for the first time in years.

    In "Rhythm and Background Chords", Warren described "I Type Chords" as Reg reported (page 8).
    He talks about "V Type Chords" on page 48. Again, as Reg described.

    On Page 78, he discusses "II Type Chords" and mentions that they function "as an alternative to the IV chord".

    There are lots of examples of progressions, including some very cool voicings.

    In the actual lessons (in person, the old-fashioned way), for soloing, he spoke of this differently. Only two types and interchangeable within a type.

    He taught tonal centers. In "Jazz Guitar Solos" he presents a bunch of standards with tonal centers sketched in. I still have my handwritten notes showing all the interchangeable chords (within a type) in the book.

    In "Jazz Guitar Chord Bible" there is a huge number of ii V Is and similar sequences using a lot of different voicings.

    BTW, he also wrote a bass book.

  13. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Too late, I've cancelled you.
    That is WAY beyond microaggressions

  14. #113

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    I got a comfy chair and some mandala coloring pages in my classroom, if anybody needs.

  15. #114
    The Mark Levine books chord/scale method for ii V I in minor is awkward. It consist of the scales: the Locian #2 scale on the ii, the Altered scale on the V7, and the "Minor Major" scale on the i.
    ii V in usually last for a measure (2 beats each chord) in minor and in major too, do you really think it's at all practical to think of two different scales for 2 beats each? Barry Harris has a better system for that. Harris basically thinks of a single scale for a ii V.

  16. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    The Mark Levine books chord/scale method for ii V I in minor is awkward. It consist of the scales: the Locian #2 scale on the ii, the Altered scale on the V7, and the "Minor Major" scale on the i.
    ii V in usually last for a measure (2 beats each chord) in minor and in major too, do you really think it's at all practical to think of two different scales for 2 beats each? Barry Harris has a better system for that. Harris basically thinks of a single scale for a ii V.
    I don't know if this is literally written out in Levine's books, but if chords are going by too fast to handle them individually, you can think V, instead of ii V.

  17. #116

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    Think diatonic —> connection —> destination chord

    this can all happen in the space of a few notes.

    So Barry might be thinking, for example

    V (or bVII) dominant —> diminished connection —> destination chord

  18. #117
    Of course, but Mr. Levine does not mention such a practical application.

  19. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Think diatonic —> connection —> destination chord

    this can all happen in the space of a few notes.

    So Barry might be thinking, for example

    V (or bVII) dominant —> diminished connection —> destination chord
    Barry Harris bVII theory.
    On D-7b5 G7 practice/play Bb7 for Ab down to B

  20. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    Of course, but Mr. Levine does not mention such a practical application.
    well, I suppose
    ii dorian
    V half-whole
    I ionian

    would be the same type of thing, but to be honest I find the system too.... choicey. Barry gives exact specific things to play that sound like jazz and Levine talks mostly about the harmonic implications of seven notes scale iirc (diminished and whole tone excepted)

    I find the seven note thing very arbitrary. Why not six, eight or nine? The half whole scale sits awkwardly here among the seven note modes.

  21. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    Please kindly explain the Barry Harris bVII theory. Thanks
    Thats what you play on a IIm7b5 right?

    you can always swap one of those in for a IIm7

  22. #121
    Yes, Levine's method is too cerebral.

  23. #122
    Barry Harris bVII method
    for | D-7b5 | G7b9 |
    Play Bb7 for Ab down to B... then maybe up the important diminished ... the maybe down the Augmented Arp

  24. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    Yes, Levine's method is too cerebral.
    It’s just the classic thing of having only a hammer and so everything looks like a nail.

    Levine teaches a harmonic theory, ultimately. Barry teaches phrases and ideas that sound legitimate and can be combined into longer statements. The harmony is sort of secondary.

    using Levine style CST to teach beginners to improvise is obviously never going to work very well. Everyone kind of knows this and yet they do it anyway.

  25. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    Barry Harris bVII method
    for | D-7b5 | G7b9 |
    Play Bb7 for Ab down to B... then maybe up the important diminished ... the maybe down the Augmented Arp
    You go down to the B which is diminished on the third of the dominant, connect to the I chord right?

    Thats the simplest. There are other connections you can make too, obviously. Tritone is a big one.

  26. #125
    I agree.
    The Mark Levine books will not much help a student to improvise melodically, but instead improvise mechanically. He does not really teach "improvisation" in a melodic sense. Voicings are what he lectures on. His chord/scale method for ii V I in minor is awkward. It consist of the scales: the Locian #2 scale on the ii, the Altered scale on the V7, and the "Minor Major" scale on the i.
    ii V in usually last for a measure (2 beats each chord) in minor and in major too, do you really think it's at all practical to think of two different scales for 2 beats each? Barry Harris has a better system for that. He think of single scales for ii V.