The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    A few notes on Exercise 3.1:
    1. The fingerings were new to me but I did my best to adhere to GF's format.
    2. I struggled mightily getting around the Circle.
    3. Lots of thinking required, which usually indicates the need for more practice.
    4. As a learning exercise, I stated the chords (Maj7/Min7) after each phrase.
    5. Backing Track: Band In A Box. BPM: 104
    6. Next Steps: I plan to review starting at Chapter 2 before diving into Exercise 3.2.


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  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by losaltosjoe
    A few notes on Exercise 3.1:
    1. The fingerings were new to me but I did my best to adhere to GF's format.
    2. I struggled mightily getting around the Circle.
    3. Lots of thinking required, which usually indicates the need for more practice.
    4. As a learning exercise, I stated the chords (Maj7/Min7) after each phrase.
    5. Backing Track: Band In A Box. BPM: 104
    6. Next Steps: I plan to review starting at Chapter 2 before diving into Exercise 3.2.

    Very good - you made an exercise sound like "real" music!

  4. #28

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    Lovely job, losaltosjo. Very well played indeed.

  5. #29

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    OK, here's my attempt at Ex. 3.1. I'm in two minds about how I'm doing. I think this sounds okay, but it's just a memory thing - a lick in different positions (and as my memory is so bad I still needed a hint sheet). I'm not applying any of the thinking that has been mentioned above in this thread. I'm not thinking major / minor triads, or anything other than this is a nice lick. So far, from this book, I've picked up that if I am faced with a Minor 7 chord I have a whole new way of playing over it that sounds really nice. And, of course, a way to do that playing. But it feels like I'm missing 99% of what I'm meant to be getting.

    On the other hand, my new approach to learning jazz is to keep it simple, just to enjoy the sounds, and not to worry about the theory and all the clever stuff (yet). I need to learn melodies and get some jazz articulation in my playing. And from that perspective this is good stuff.

    Maybe, in the future, a second go through the text will reveal all the stuff that I'm missing right now, and possibly then I'll be better positioned to understand and benefit from it.

    Anyway, here's 3.1:



    Cheers
    Derek

  6. #30

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    Well done, Derek!

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger

    On the other hand, my new approach to learning jazz is to keep it simple, just to enjoy the sounds, and not to worry about the theory and all the clever stuff (yet). I need to learn melodies and get some jazz articulation in my playing. And from that perspective this is good stuff.
    Somewhere, sometime, someone said, "make a pretty sound". ("somewhere, sometime, someone, said"... gotta remember that one for a future lyric)

    You certainly did that on that video. Great to hear the lines with the chords in the background, both coming thru really clear and pretty.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger
    OK, here's my attempt at Ex. 3.1.Derek
    Tasty playing Derek!

    Quote Originally Posted by digger
    ... as my memory is so bad I still needed a hint sheet.
    Been there, forgot that.

    Quote Originally Posted by digger
    On the other hand, my new approach to learning jazz is to keep it simple, just to enjoy the sounds, and not to worry about the theory and all the clever stuff (yet).
    I may have to post this quote on my music stand. :-)

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu
    For me, the instructions for Fig 3.5 are for the purpose of analysis and understanding. These are the triads, this is where they are coming from, and so on. But in terms of actual application, I think the point of pp. 28-29 is to show that to get the Dorian colour, you can use not only the minor family (triad+extensions) that we've been using, but also the minor family a 5th above (4th below). This expands your palette.

    So for the Dmin "pool", as I've been calling it, you can also dip into the Amin pool. If you're playing in the Fmin pool, you could also dip into the Cmin pool to get that Dorian sound. If you look at Fig 3.5 with that in mind, it's really just alternating between the Dmin pool and the Amin pool.

    Again, I think GF is trying to simplify our thinking in the moment, not complicate it. It's all a matter of perspective: To you, your brain hurts; but to me, it feels squishy and gelatinous.
    Just now looking at the anaylsis at the top of page 29. That exactly illustrates what I've said a couple of times previously, just play off of diatonic traids built from the chord tones of the parent chord. To me that is the simple way of thinking about it.

  10. #34

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    Not to beat a dead horse; but this was something I didn’t feel was clear when I worked through this material last time.

    In its basic form he suggests the collection of triads built on the vi chord over a tonic major and built on the ii chord over the subdominant/dominant. Right?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  11. #35

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    I'm a little confused (as you'll all have seen, this isn't unusual) by that page 28/29 explanation.

    If I'm not mistaken, the entire journey so far has been to show, theoretically and practically, how we can take (in this case) a D-7 triad, extend it diatonically upwards and find the D min7, F major, A minor, and then C major triads, and use these in our improvisations.

    So where on earth has A minor suddenly appeared from as the basic triad from which we can build some further triads that will also work over Dmin7?

    The text answers my question by, (I paraphrase) "Amin is one of the triads derived from the Dmin7, so that means you can use the extensions derived from Amin to play over Dmin7."

    Does this mean we can take any of the extensions, e.g. F maj / A min / C maj, derive a new set of triads from them and use those as well?

    Also, how does the 6th note fit in here? I understand that the 6th is the characteristic note of the Dorian mode (although what that phrase actually means in practice I have no idea). GF talks about accenting this sound by playing these Amin7 triads instead of the Dmin7th - but it still feels like we've gone off into a virtual book two by way of a minor comment.

    Confused of Gloucester!

  12. #36

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    Nice playing, digger!

    Quote Originally Posted by digger

    So where on earth has A minor suddenly appeared from as the basic triad from which we can build some further triads that will also work over Dmin7?
    I think it's just a rule of thumb to allow us to access the Doran sound using shapes and material we already know. We can't just keep extending the triads upward by thirds, because the basic form is based on the natural minor, so we'd run into that flat 6th. By subbing in the same shapes starting from the 5th, we avoid that (as well as the subsequent diminished triad) and hit a natural 6th instead.

    There will be more of these substitutions as we go through the book, giving us maximize mileage from the same basic material. That's the beauty.

  13. #37

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    Going back to the Gmin triad and its extensions it hasn't been specified that Gmin is the IImin of Fmaj but this will become clear when later in the book we will learn the extensions going down from Gmin - C7 and Emin7b5. In that context it makes perfect sense to play an Amin triad over a Dmin chord - same thing, just transposed up a perfect fifth. Hope that helps...

  14. #38

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    One of the reasons I wanted to (and did) get a 5 string bass was the lower notes. For example, if the tonic is Eb, or any Eb chord for that matter, on a four string bass the lowest Eb just isn't that low. On a 5 string you've got the Eb an octave lower, same with the D, Db, C, and B an octave lower than on a 4 string bass. Pushed this accompainment all the way down to the lower D and C. Not sure you can hear those notes unless using headphones or better speakers (better than computer or phone speakers for instance).


  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    Going back to the Gmin triad and its extensions it hasn't been specified that Gmin is the IImin of Fmaj but this will become clear when later in the book we will learn the extensions going down from Gmin - C7 and Emin7b5. In that context it makes perfect sense to play an Amin triad over a Dmin chord - same thing, just transposed up a perfect fifth. Hope that helps...
    Thanks Tommo, but I'm not sure. I think I'm suddenly way out of my depth here.

    Must confess, I'm struggling. I think the book is ahead of me. I thought it was building up to something, but more and more I'm thinking it is building on something. And the thing that it is building on, I don't yet have. Maybe I should have started my journey with a simpler book.

    Not bailing just yet, though:-)

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger
    Thanks Tommo, but I'm not sure. I think I'm suddenly way out of my depth here.

    Must confess, I'm struggling. I think the book is ahead of me. I thought it was building up to something, but more and more I'm thinking it is building on something. And the thing that it is building on, I don't yet have. Maybe I should have started my journey with a simpler book.

    Not bailing just yet, though:-)
    I don't know if you have read through chapter 1 which reviews basic diatonic harmony. Maybe reading through it again will clear up some things...

  17. #41

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    Yep, read through Chapter One. Still not making connections between the lower diatonic extensions of Dmin7 leading me to an Amin triad *. I'm getting Dmin7 then Bm7b5 then G7.

    No worries, I'll take it a page at a time and I'm sure it'll all become a little clearer as I progress.

    I think, overall, it's all about learning styles. I do prefer to learn from a book, but I'm also very logical and like to go A to B to C to D etc. The book, until page 28, does this really well. GF takes us by the hand and leads us through the theory and practicalities of these upper diatonic extensions. But suddenly, on page 28, he's adding in two extra things - one is the use of the extensions of an extension, and the other is the use of the Dorian mode in our solos. It just feels like we've gone A B C D G H I with an assumption that the student using the book is happy with steps E and F from previous studies.

    But this morning I've been soloing over Hot Saw using the Dorian and the pattern we learned earlier in Chapter 3 and it's sounding nice (although a long way from inflicting it upon you good people, yet!), so all is good. :-)

    * Edit - to the extensions of the Am triad I should say. I get where the Amin triad itself comes from.

    Cheers
    Derek
    Last edited by digger; 02-09-2020 at 11:50 AM.

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger
    Must confess, I'm struggling. I think the book is ahead of me. I thought it was building up to something, but more and more I'm thinking it is building on something. And the thing that it is building on, I don't yet have. Maybe I should have started my journey with a simpler book.

    Not bailing just yet, though:-)
    Struggling is a sign you're learning something new to you. That's a good thing. (You should hear me try and fingerpick--it's abominable, though what I'm doing isn't that hard and I will get it in time.) The main thing, I think, is to play the lines. If you can play them and play them a lot, you will make sense of them. (You may use Fewell's terms or other ones; whatever works for you.)

    I get a bit confused about this material too. I think this is because I've encountered many approaches to playing jazz and they all use some different terms. My job is to integrate the material into something suitable for me.

    The older I get the more I think 'finding one's voice' is a matter of cobbling together the bits and pieces of learning and experimenting and then getting them to (more or less) cohere. I'm not there yet but I'm far enough along to realize I can't start over with every new book: "Take what you need and leave the rest."

    What I really like about Fewell's book is that although the fingerings seem awkward at times, I sense that he's making it so one can generate a lot of material from a few basic triads and extensions. In other words, I think what he's teaching will seem a lot simpler on the back end than it does on the front end. My two cents.

    Don't bail! We need you.

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    S

    The older I get the more I think 'finding one's voice'
    Yeah, I'm 62, I think, all path's lead to... finding one's voice.

    I think the approach in this book gives one choices faciliating keeping it interesting as one takes a longer solo even over long streches of static chords like on So What. I really want to just be able to "go" and keep going, 5 minute solos?

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    What I really like about Fewell's book is that although the fingerings seem awkward at times, I sense that he's making it so one can generate a lot of material from a few basic triads and extensions.
    I always had the feeling that Fewell wants the reader/student to explore and find his own fingerings and ways to navigate the fretboard - often he writes that there are two possible fingerings when in fact there's a couple more (that he wants you to find out about for yourself). In the case of the sample solo for "Hot Saw" it seems to me the chosen fingerings are there to make the triad shapes easier to visualise.

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Yeah, I'm 62, I think, all path's lead to... finding one's voice.

    I think the approach in this book gives one choices faciliating keeping it interesting as one takes a longer solo even over long streches of static chords like on So What. I really want to just be able to "go" and keep going, 5 minute solos?
    I think that's what it's all about, finding a voice. I think a big step in that direction is songwriting. That and calming down---when nervous, I tend to ramble/ babble, and when playing, I don't know when to quit. I admire those players who move phrase to phrase, never rushing (even when playing fast) and always sounding like they're doing exactly what they want. O, and the third step: deciding what you are NOT going to make a priority. Charlie Christian, Wes, Django: great, distincitive, unmistakable, and they were limited in ways. (Not a criticism. There are people who can sing and make their living singing on demos because their voice isn't very distinctive. It's good, they're pros, but they don't limit the way a person hearing the demo might want to sing the song. Like some studio guitar players---they can play anything but nothing they play conveys a singular identity like Wes or Charlie or Django (or Chet or Merle or Jerry Reed)

    5 minute solos? Right now, getting off a solid chorus or two and ending well are where I've set my sights. ;o)

  22. #46

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    Here's my first attempt at something on Hot Saw. I've pretty much stuck to the shapes / triads / licks we learned in Chapter Two and the beginning of Chapter Three. I've dealt with the Amin thing that I don't understand by simply avoiding it (not the Amin triad, that's in there, but the triads built from Amin), and I've not really done anything from the Dorian mode as GF suggests (although as far as I can tell everything we're doing comes from that mode). Anyway, I think this proves that I don't know the four shapes / licks well enough yet, but hopefully it shows promise...



    For info, and credit where credit's due, the backing track comes from YouTube (Guitare Improvisation) with a few extra chords added.

    Cheers
    Derek

  23. #47

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    starting late but interested in joining this group - I have the book and have been re-visiting it

    the more i read along in this book I feel like I am getting slighly lost but after looking at it again - there really are not many concepts provided in the first 3 chapters, but I am just trying to keep them straight so I can use these in actual playing.

    1) over a minor chord play a minor triad from the root and from the seventh play a major triad
    example: Gmin can play a Gmin chord and Fmaj chord

    2) over a minor chord play a triad from each chord tone
    example: Gminor consisting of G, Bb, D, F (Gmin, Bb maj, Dmin, Fmaj)

    3) for a major chord you can apply these same concepts from the relative minor
    example: Gmin is the relative minor key to Bb maj, so over Bbmaj you can play the same chords from Gmin
    (Gmin, Bb maj, Dmin, Fmaj)

    4) for a dorian minor (ii chord) you can play either the same triads derived in example 2 (over Gmin, Gmin, Bb maj, Dmin, Fmaj) or you can play triads derived from the fifth of the chord. for example for Gmin the fifth would be Dmin (Dmin, Fmaj, Amin, Cmaj)

    5) Per page 33, over a dominant chord you can play a triad derived from the fifth of the dominant chord.
    example: over C7 play Gmin. C7 = CEGBb. Gmin triad gives G Bb D (C79)


    I only write this to see if I am interpreting all this information correctly and so I can keep everything straight. Of course the playing is what's important. Thanks all and I look forward to joining the group

  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiscart1900
    starting late but interested in joining this group - I have the book and have been re-visiting it

    the more i read along in this book I feel like I am getting slighly lost but after looking at it again - there really are not many concepts provided in the first 3 chapters, but I am just trying to keep them straight so I can use these in actual playing.

    1) over a minor chord play a minor triad from the root and from the seventh play a major triad
    example: Gmin can play a Gmin chord and Fmaj chord
    Glad you're interested. Welcome aboard.

    As for the minor chords, I think of it this way. (Not saying this is best or even that it's what GF is suggesting, but this is what seems most useful to me given what I've done before.)
    I think of a minor 7 as a ii chord. (That's the default.) So if Gm7 is a ii, the I is F Major. F Major is also D min. D min is the vi of F major. C Major is the IV of F. So the four triads we have are: F, Gm, C and Dm. (The minor triad is a whole step up from a major triad.)

    If that seems confusing, that's okay. There are other ways to internalize this and you will find one that suits you.

    What I'm getting from Fewell's book is a way to organize the fretboard. (I was used to playing all the triads and 7th arpeggios in one position, not along the fretboard.)

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger
    Here's my first attempt at something on Hot Saw.
    I think you're too hard on yourself Derek. I really enjoyed that! Thanks.

  26. #50

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    A quick run through Ex 3.1: