Fewell's Melodic Approach - Ch. 3

[Jehu]

I think you're too hard on yourself Derek. I really enjoyed that! Thanks.

Definitely too hard on yourself, digger -- from what I hear, you're killing it!

[Jehu]

starting late but interested in joining this group - I have the book and have been re-visiting it

the more i read along in this book I feel like I am getting slighly lost but after looking at it again - there really are not many concepts provided in the first 3 chapters, but I am just trying to keep them straight so I can use these in actual playing.

1) over a minor chord play a minor triad from the root and from the seventh play a major triad
example: Gmin can play a Gmin chord and Fmaj chord

2) over a minor chord play a triad from each chord tone
example: Gminor consisting of G, Bb, D, F (Gmin, Bb maj, Dmin, Fmaj)

3) for a major chord you can apply these same concepts from the relative minor
example: Gmin is the relative minor key to Bb maj, so over Bbmaj you can play the same chords from Gmin

(Gmin, Bb maj, Dmin, Fmaj)

4) for a dorian minor (ii chord) you can play either the same triads derived in example 2 (over Gmin, Gmin, Bb maj, Dmin, Fmaj) or you can play triads derived from the fifth of the chord. for example for Gmin the fifth would be Dmin (Dmin, Fmaj, Amin, Cmaj)

5) Per page 33, over a dominant chord you can play a triad derived from the fifth of the dominant chord.
example: over C7 play Gmin. C7 = CEGBb. Gmin triad gives G Bb D (C79)


I only write this to see if I am interpreting all this information correctly and so I can keep everything straight. Of course the playing is what's important. Thanks all and I look forward to joining the group

Yep, this is all my understanding. And welcome aboard, mate!

[fep]

starting late but interested in joining this group - I have the book and have been re-visiting it

the more i read along in this book I feel like I am getting slighly lost but after looking at it again - there really are not many concepts provided in the first 3 chapters, but I am just trying to keep them straight so I can use these in actual playing.

1) over a minor chord play a minor triad from the root and from the seventh play a major triad
example: Gmin can play a Gmin chord and Fmaj chord

2) over a minor chord play a triad from each chord tone
example: Gminor consisting of G, Bb, D, F (Gmin, Bb maj, Dmin, Fmaj)

3) for a major chord you can apply these same concepts from the relative minor
example: Gmin is the relative minor key to Bb maj, so over Bbmaj you can play the same chords from Gmin

(Gmin, Bb maj, Dmin, Fmaj)

4) for a dorian minor (ii chord) you can play either the same triads derived in example 2 (over Gmin, Gmin, Bb maj, Dmin, Fmaj) or you can play triads derived from the fifth of the chord. for example for Gmin the fifth would be Dmin (Dmin, Fmaj, Amin, Cmaj)

5) Per page 33, over a dominant chord you can play a triad derived from the fifth of the dominant chord.
example: over C7 play Gmin. C7 = CEGBb. Gmin triad gives G Bb D (C79)


I only write this to see if I am interpreting all this information correctly and so I can keep everything straight. Of course the playing is what's important. Thanks all and I look forward to joining the group

I haven't gotten to page 33 yet, but all the rest looks spot on to me. And, that is a very useful, simple and easy to understand summary of the book to that point, thanks for that.

[jaguarguitar]

is it too late for me to join!

[TOMMO]

is it too late for me to join!

Why is that? Are you ahead of us all?

[MarkRhodes]

is it too late for me to join!

No! Welcome aboard. The more the merrier.

[jaguarguitar]

No! Welcome aboard. The more the merrier.

Ordering the book, will update soon.

[TOMMO]

Ordering the book, will update soon.

Great!

[MarkRhodes]

Having trouble getting Fewell's "How Saw" solo down pat. (16 bars, track 6 on the CD) Maybe by tomorrow...

[losaltosjoe]

Hi Study Group. FYI. Work has me on the road and away from my recording setup. Luckily I do have access to a guitar. So I am continuing to work on Chapter 3 but won't be able to post videos for a couple of weeks. Keep up the good work! Cheers, Joe

[MarkRhodes]

The 16-bar "Hot Saw" solo from chapter 3. (CD track #6.) Better than yesterday and the day before but still not where it needs to be.
I like the phrases Fewell has chosen here.

[TOMMO]

Well done, Mark! I'm a bit behind proceedings re: posting clips, right now I feel like I have lost all my chops and can't even play the easiest ditty properly.... Some days are like that.

[MarkRhodes]

Well done, Mark! I'm a bit behind proceedings re: posting clips, right now I feel like I have lost all my chops and can't even play the easiest ditty properly.... Some days are like that.

Thanks, Tommo.

I know what you mean about "some days are like that." Troy Grady says in one of his videos that playing guitar is like going to the gym in that you just don't always have it. It's better to say "today is just not my day" than "I suck and should just quit." ;o) We all have bad days.

[digger]

The 16-bar "Hot Saw" solo from chapter 3. (CD track #6.)

Well done, Mark. Good work.

I've made a start on this, and unlike my effort on Hot Saw, I love the way these lines don't always start on the root, and they twist and turn and double back on themselves. Almost all of mine started on the root and went up or down (but, in my defence yer honour, I thought that's what the idea was!).

I see four stages to using these lines:

1. Learn them
2. Analyse them, for the triads, but also (as mentioned above) how they start and move and end.
3. Internalise the learning from (2)
4. Have another go at Hot Saw using (3)

That's February gone then...

Derek

[TOMMO]

That's February gone then...

Derek

The material is getting more complex chapter by chapter so it seems. Chapter 3 already has probably more than can be accomplished in one month so it seems to be necessary to go back and work some more on earlier chapters...

[digger]

You're not wrong, Tommo.

I find I have a really poor musical memory, too. In another world I'm working on a particular set of right hand exercises that have to repeated every day for 30 days. The text says (in regard to memorising the material):

After your first practice session, working for five to ten minutes at 60 bpm, you shouldn’t have to look at the paper again.

I'm on Day # 13 and I still need to look at the paper...

[digger]

Here's my attempt at the example lines that GF has provided for us. As Mark said above, they're really nice phrases. I can see clearly how he uses the shapes / triads he's taught us thus far, but also there's some really nice twists and turns and the way he moves from shape to shape is enlightening.

Regards
Derek

[TOMMO]

Here's my attempt at the example lines that GF has provided for us. As Mark said above, they're really nice phrases. I can see clearly how he uses the shapes / triads he's taught us thus far, but also there's some really nice twists and turns and the way he moves from shape to shape is enlightening.

Regards
Derek

Reason to smile at the end - well done, Derek!

[digger]

Spent an hour and a half before work this morning trying to come up with some lines of my own, inspired by GF's examples. I ended up with four two bar phrases. They're very basic, but it's a start, and the exercise certainly helps in connecting the four (six) triad shapes, rather than playing a whole phrase out of just one shape, which is what I did on my Hot Saw effort.

I'll try and post these lines up later, that is, if they don't sound too awful when left to stew for eight hours!

Cheers
Derek

[digger]

Okay, here they are. They seem a little simplistic and square when compared to GF's phrasing. But it's a start in trying to get a little of what he did into my own lines.

I focused on starting lines on notes other than the root and also on moving between shapes. I find that shifting between shapes adds a little of that twisting and turning, jumping up and down in both big and small steps, that good lines seem to possess, but without too much effort - the genius of the shapes is that they do some of this for us!

The first line can be played starting on the root, or the 5th if, as in this case, we're using the Dorian mode. I've played both. What I also tried to do here was to start on an off-beat, which I kind of liked in GF's examples.

My second line simply goes up the four triads, with absolutely nothing added - so simple, yet very nice.

The third one is again really about just going up the shapes, this time with the tiniest of extra notes. This one also uses the G triad so it will really only work where we're using the Dorian (I think...)

#4 was the same, but this time I ended with a few notes from the Dorian scale leading back into one of the triads.

Anyway, that's it for now. I will keep working on these and hopefully resubmit Hot Saw in a week or so.

Cheers
Derek

[TOMMO]

Here are two contributions from me:

Playing along with the sample solo on "Hot Saw":

and an attempt to solo over the backing track - not my best but the red light fever got the best of me again and I'm not exactly relaxed:

[digger]

Sounds good to me, Tommo! Lovely laid back groove and tone.

[TOMMO]

Sounds good to me, Tommo! Lovely laid back groove and tone.

Thank you!

[Jehu]

Sounding great, everybody!

The material is getting more complex chapter by chapter so it seems. Chapter 3 already has probably more than can be accomplished in one month so it seems to be necessary to go back and work some more on earlier chapters...

This seems to be a common sentiment as we close in on the last part of February. Do we want to think about breaking this chapter up into two months, with the goal of tackling Hot Saw this month and Three Bee's in March?

I've been away travelling in Australia for the past week without a guitar, so could use a bit of extra time on this chapter myself.

[digger]

I think that's a good idea, Jay. Tonight I've been working on composing a solo for Hot Saw as per GF's instructions. But I've also been going back over all the shapes and triads and lines learned so far. Can't believe how far we've all come so far. Be a shame to start rushing things so soon.

Derek

[fep]

and an attempt to solo over the backing track - not my best but the red light fever got the best of me again and I'm not exactly relaxed:

I think that was really well done... 2 minutes plus of soloing ain't easy. And you were able to keep track of the form, easy to get lost when you have 24 measures straight of Dm. Mostly, it sounded good.

[wzpgsr]

Sounding great, everybody!



This seems to be a common sentiment as we close in on the last part of February. Do we want to think about breaking this chapter up into two months, with the goal of tackling Hot Saw this month and Three Bee's in March?

I've been away travelling in Australia for the past week without a guitar, so could use a bit of extra time on this chapter myself.

Great idea. I have started taking lessons—encouraged if you have never done so, or if it's been a long while—so my practice time is now split between this and lesson material.

[TOMMO]

Thanks fep - appreciate it! Chapter 3 at least can take some more time if you really delve into it. I'm making it a point to take most of the exercises through cycle 5 even when it's not specified. Working longer with a certain amount of material (as per chapter) will pay off in the long run IMO.

[MarkRhodes]

Here are two contributions from me:

Playing along with the sample solo on "Hot Saw":
[/video]


and an attempt to solo over the backing track - not my best but the red light fever got the best of me again and I'm not exactly relaxed:

Sounds good, Tommo. Really like your guitar tone and time feel. This piece is an exercise in NOT playing changes---16 bars of D minor is a long haul. I think some of us are more at home with that than others. (I find it hard to remain focused---my mind wanders.) You're doing well. Wish I was doing so well!

[MarkRhodes]

This seems to be a common sentiment as we close in on the last part of February. Do we want to think about breaking this chapter up into two months, with the goal of tackling Hot Saw this month and Three Bee's in March?

Sounds good to me! I have other things I'm working on and need more time with this. It's important material, I think. Even if we move slow, six months of this will (I trust) provide great long-term benefits.

[TOMMO]

Sounds good, Tommo. Really like your guitar tone and time feel. This piece is an exercise in NOT playing changes---16 bars of D minor is a long haul. I think some of us are more at home with that than others. (I find it hard to remain focused---my mind wanders.) You're doing well. Wish I was doing so well!

Thanks Mark!

It's important material, I think. Even if we move slow, six months of this will (I trust) provide great long-term benefits.

+1! The first time I worked through the book a couple of years ago I was lacking in patience and moved too fast through it which inevitably resulted in me not having internalized enough of it.

(eta: I seem to see a sunburst Tele in your new avatar, Mark?)

[digger]

I swing from being really pleased - and not a little amazed - at my progress to thinking I'm not getting it at all. I think there's so much to internalise that for every really nice line that the triad shapes hand to me on a plate I realise that there's a massive amount that I'm missing. This is my first go through the book and I'm taking it a page at a time, but I can well imagine how it will repay multiple work-throughs. It really is like the ice-berg where 90% is hidden beneath the surface.

Currently enjoying starting my lines on the off-beat - just because GF did it on his example lines and it really adds a nice little push to the melody.

Cheers
Derek

[TOMMO]

I swing from being really pleased - and not a little amazed - at my progress to thinking I'm not getting it at all.

That's the story of my entire journey through trying to learn to play jazz guitar so far....

[digger]

Morning fellow GF's study-ers!

I've finally got round to completing Exercise 3.3 - the composed solo for Hot Saw. I've used a couple of the phrases that I came up with in the previous exercise, and I've taken inspiration from GF's example phrases so far as starting on notes other than the root, on the off-beat, and moving between triad shapes is concerned. I also tried to build the solo using space, repeated lines and motifs, and to try and get the chord change to slip in nicely.

Not sure I succeeded, but I'm reasonably happy with progress so far. I think it's about to get more difficult with future exercises where the chords change more frequently!

I go through the same solo twice, as GF's backing track is two choruses long:

Cheers
Derek

[TOMMO]

Very very nice, Derek! Excellent tone as well. What's that guitar you're using?

[digger]

Thanks Tommo

The guitar is an Aria FA71. A favourite player of mine - Jim Mullin uses one:

I set-up an eBay search for one a few years ago. They seem pretty rare, and the search never came up with anything until just before Xmas when one suddenly popped up - and lo and behold it was just ten miles away from home. Seemed a shame not to...

Derek

[grahambop]

I just put up some videos I took of Jim Mullen playing that guitar. These were originally posted on YouTube about ten years ago but YouTube weirdly screwed them up recently, so I’ve uploaded new copies:

Jim Mullen - YouTube

[TOMMO]

Thanks Tommo

The guitar is an Aria FA71. A favourite player of mine - Jim Mullin uses one:

I set-up an eBay search for one a few years ago. They seem pretty rare, and the search never came up with anything until just before Xmas when one suddenly popped up - and lo and behold it was just ten miles away from home. Seemed a shame not to...

Derek

Oh yes - I've watched that video before and noticed that beautiful guitar - happy for you that you found one.

I just put up some videos I took of Jim Mullen playing that guitar. These were originally posted on YouTube about ten years ago but YouTube weirdly screwed them up recently, so I’ve uploaded new copies:

Jim Mullen - YouTube

Thanks for the links!

[digger]

I just put up some videos I took of Jim Mullen playing that guitar. These were originally posted on YouTube about ten years ago but YouTube weirdly screwed them up recently, so I’ve uploaded new copies:

Jim Mullen - YouTube

Brilliant stuff. Thanks Graham.

I'm making the bold assumption that all that stuff is in Chapter Four of GF's book?

Derek

[fep]

Nice job Derek, inspired me to get going on this. I composed 16 bars this morning (I kept playing into the Ebm a bit but that wasn't composed). Not sure if I'll do the next 16 bars, this is labor intensive.

Edit: To eliminate duplication - I deleted the video and sheet music as I extended it and posted the revision at post #97

[Jehu]

Morning fellow GF's study-ers!

I've finally got round to completing Exercise 3.3 - the composed solo for Hot Saw. I've used a couple of the phrases that I came up with in the previous exercise, and I've taken inspiration from GF's example phrases so far as starting on notes other than the root, on the off-beat, and moving between triad shapes is concerned. I also tried to build the solo using space, repeated lines and motifs, and to try and get the chord change to slip in nicely.

Awesome, Derek... to me it has a Grant Green vibe.

[Jehu]

Nice job Derek, inspired me to get going on this. I composed 16 bars this morning (I kept playing into the Ebm a bit but that wasn't composed). Not sure if I'll do the next 16 bars, this is labor intensive.

Great as always, Frank, nice laid-back feel. It's amazing how much more effort it takes to actually compose something meaningful than to just noodle!

[digger]

Nice job Derek, inspired me to get going on this. I composed 16 bars this morning (I kept playing into the Ebm a bit but that wasn't composed). Not sure if I'll do the next 16 bars, this is labor intensive.

Good work, Fep. Very nice. Yes, it is labour intensive - took me a few days to get my chorus together. At least your manuscript looks nice - mine is done the old fashioned way and looks horrible!

[digger]

Awesome, Derek... to me it has a Grant Green vibe.

Thanks Jay. Spookily, I have been listening a lot to the Idle Moments album the last few weeks. Every one on the album locks into the groove so nicely I can just listen over and over focussing on all the different players. Maybe a little of it seeped into my ears...

Cheers
Derek

[TOMMO]

Thanks Jay. Spookily, I have been listening a lot to the Idle Moments album the last few weeks.
Cheers
Derek

A favourite of mine...

[fep]

Good work, Fep. Very nice. Yes, it is labour intensive - took me a few days to get my chorus together. At least your manuscript looks nice - mine is done the old fashioned way and looks horrible!

Thanks Derek,

My handwriting is terrible, that's part of what motivated me to use notation software.

I think tomorrow morning I'll take a stab at the next 16 bars. I'll use those 1st four bars over Ebm that I improvised, so I guess I now have 20 bars.

Listening back...

What I don't like, my low notes are too wolfy, I'm going to cut the bass on the amp and see if I can fix that. I think that's a problem with solid top guitars (mine is solid spruce).

What I like, I did some things rhythmically that I wasn't aware of... Mostly I'm playing swing but at measure 11 and 12 I'm so layed back that it floats, leaves the groove for a moment. Also the bit I did over the Ebm sounds like quarter note triplets and creates a duplet feel... completely unaware of doing that, just how I heard it. Funny thing about that, I have difficulty playing quarter note triplets when reading off a page, never seem to get them quite right. Here I got them right with no effort or quarter note thoughts. Like I said I wasn't aware of it until listening back.

[fep]

So here is all 32 measures composed for Ex 3.3:

[MarkRhodes]

(eta: I seem to see a sunburst Tele in your new avatar, Mark?)

It's the one I got for Christmas. The color is called butterscotch blonde. It looks lighter or darker depending on the surrounding light. Sure do love it!

[digger]

Very nice, Fep.

Beautiful tone on that guitar. Great solo, some really sweet phrases.

Edit: just had a few more listens. Love the line at bar 13. Really great.

Derek

[TOMMO]

Good job Frank!