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How do you all get in the mindset for really improvising and being creative?
I find that sometimes I'll sit down and play some really nice stuff, but often I start with the intent of playing some really nice stuff and nothing comes along! It just seems regurgitated and formulaic.
Plus, it doesn't seem to have much to do with how I'm feeling. I find I can't really predict if I'm going to be playing well or not based on mood or anything else.
So do any of you have any advice on how to approach improvisation mentally? Do you do anything to prepare yourself or do you just launch into it. And if you find you're sounding stale, do you persist until you start sounding good, or work on some other aspect of your playing for a while and leave the improv till another time, or put the guitar away for a week, or what?
Is there something that I should be doing before actually picking up the guitar in order to get the most out of playing?
(aside from making sure my hands are warmed-up from the frigid temperatures of late
)
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01-13-2010 03:18 PM
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I will give you my lame answer. First for me is to listen. If I can't hear it and feel it, I doubt I am going to be able to play anything worthwhile. Second is to use theme and variation. Arguably the most recognized peice in the history of mankind (besides the Sports Center theme
) is Beethoven's 5th. 4 notes, that's it. The rest is a demonstration of theme and variation that still reverberates.
So rather than an endless stream of 8th notes, I tend to default to the above. It might not be flashy, but at least it is easier not to get lost in all the notes.
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I used to ponder this question, and it always gets asked in some form or the other.
Im always interested to see what others have to say about it, especially from this forum.
What was really helpful for me was Kenny Werners Effortless Mastery, his meditations and his Aebersold playalong book, which has some great backings to be totally free with.
I may have plugged his book in a past thread, but, it really was a turning point for my improvisation. Im really thankful to the guy that recommended it to me. It made me realise how much i worried about how i sounded, even when there was noone else in earshot of me! Too much mental noise!
The clue is in the title
Maybe you already have it.
Hope it helps.
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my initial response was going to be "a little al green and a glass or two of pinot," but then i realized that's a different groove related question.
seriously though, it comes to me from relaxation, and part of that is being comfortable with the material i'm improvising over.
i like what derek says about thematic development--that's big for me as well. i need to get my ego out of the way, slow down, and work a motif--that's when the good stuff happens. If i'm tense, i know i still go back to "chops"playing, which might sound goo the first minute or so, until you realize it's full of crap licks playing.
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So, in case of sounding stale/playing pet-licks etc., go 'back' not forward in terms of complexity. Slow down, think of a theme and build on it. I like it.
This has been a very useful thread already!
Any other ideas? Do you avoid playing in certain situations/states of mind? I mean, like most people, I suppose, I get home from work and think I have to play guitar for a while, at some point, otherwise I won't have done anything productive, but then find that when I actually play I really don't produce very much.
So aside from the advice already given, before even picking up the instrument, do you decide 'I'm not going to play because it will be a waste of time', or 'I'm going to play anyway cause maybe I'll get a tiny bit out of it', or do you do something specific first to get 'in the mood'?
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honestly, i don't worry so much about not sounding good unless i'm playing live. at home is my chance to suck all i want. run changes like a directionless madman to get it out of my system. that kinda stuff.
when i play live, i like to make sure i'm relaxed. i like to get to the gig early. i like to warm up a little if i can, even if it's only looking over the sheet music for a tune i want to play but maybe haven't internalized like some others.
at places that serve alcohol, i don't object to a drink--something strong that i have to sip--the point is not to alter my conciousness, simply to calm down and reflect a little. I do not like to play intoxicated, and I will only play with others who are if I know they can keep their shit together. As an aside, Grass is a definite no-no if you want to play with me, cats who are high on grass only listen to themselves.
I try to set the mood when i play by doing a one-two punch of sorts--my first tune (if i'm calling the shots or playing solo, the latter of which is most of my gigs) is always soething i have DOWN COLD, a song i can play in my sleep, a song i can take a few choruses on and not worry about much of anything else aside from bing creative. That's my real warmer. Then, for the second tune, i like to play something I've been recently working on-- I find i'm usually in a good creative mindset by then, and that helps me keep the "flow" going.
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Good stuff, except for the alcohol thing. I just don't drink at all on the job. Not throwing darts, just my thing. I ALWAYS start out with a blues. Tough to jack up a blues. By the 3rd or 4th time thru, I am usually starting to get into it. Everything after that seems to work fine.
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
There are certainly nights where I am lamer than normal. Bad day, fingers just don't seem to be working, whatever. I just have to focus more, and see it as a process for improvement, trying to make it sound good even though you are off.
Playing the instrument never seems to be a waste of time. If I am not feeling it, often I begin to after playing a bit. I figure I need all the practice I can get, and how I feel has very little to do with that fact.
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no sweat, didn't take it that way. Originally Posted by derek
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Some great advice being mentioned here. I agree with it all, you need to feel relaxed and confident.
When I first started playing Jazz I was so worried about hitting every change and not loosing my place in the form... I used to start lots of phrases on the first beat of the bar, but after playing Jazz a while and learning a whole lot of tunes I feel I can play simpler stuff that goes with the moment more as opposed to 'chops' playing. As mentioned above motifs are everything, listen to Jim Hall!
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I'm with you on the alcohol Derek, I found out many years ago that I am not good at drinking alcohol. I like to play something very easy, maybe a jazzy blues in F or some else I know without thinking. I'm an old coot with some arthritis issues but a good warm-up tune usually works for me.
wiz
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I like to play something really easy (for me) to warm up - which takes considerably longer than it used to! If I try to go full tilt the minute I pick up the guitar, I'll play lousy all day. The key to warming up for me to to focus on solid syncronization between the two hands. A medium tempo swing blues in Bb is usually a good place to start. I, too, like to focus on creating motifs. I'm sort of a counter-puncher - I react to what I hear coming from the other players. I love it when somebody lays down a groove that exites me and then I can go for a ride on it. It's funny, though, when I'm playing poorly, I play way too many notes; it's like I'm randomly searching for the good ones! And sometimes, after I've played like crap on a given night, someone will come up to me and tell me how good I was ... reacting to quantity as opposed to quality. LOL!
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I have the same problem re: playing too many notes to cover blandness. Probably a common ailment. Originally Posted by Tom Karol
However, I also think that we are sometimes our own worst critics. I don't play live, and probably never will, but I suppose after all, at the end of the set, a live player's goal is to have entertained the audience. If you have done that, it doesn't really matter what you think of your playing, as your job is done.
Like I said, I'm no pro, but it seems like it is a pretty common thing to over-criticize your own work while others like it. I've often had the experience of playing what I would consider poor/stale stuff and someone listening to say some (unprompted!) nice things about it, and also for me to play something really cool which I think really works well, and then when I ask if they liked it they say 'yeah, I guess', or something like that, and don't sound as impressed as I think they should be!
Maybe the important thing is that as long as someone (us or a listener) likes it, then we should be satisfied.
And also, I suppose our mood affects our critical ability as much as our playing!
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I agree with pretty much everything that has been said so far. No Grass, minimal booze, rexalation, not trying to play too much, etc...
I find that thing that kills people (including myself sometimes) is tention, and trying to play beyond their abilities. a bad mixture. I personally play my best when I'm listening, and if I hear my chance, I stop listening for a minute and say something, but as soon as I've said it, I'm right back to listening.
This goes for on stage as well as in personal practice time. listen to the music and sounds around you while you practice, it may be silence that you hear, but you can still react to it, if the music is coming as a result of listening... it's honest. Try playing just one note and really listening too it. listen to where it is leading you, go there, listen some more, granted, you'll end up playing a bunch of long tones at first, but every note will have meaning, and isn't that really goal?
As a side note... Some of the best players I've ever listened too where high as a kite on the grass. I think as a general rule, it's not good for people's playing/listening, but I would never not play with someone just because they where high. They would have to prove that they couldn't handle it first.
Last edited by timscarey; 01-14-2010 at 06:17 PM.
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Although I'm quite new here and on jazzguitar, I've had similar problems from time to time. As for me, I found out that it has a lot to do with temperature. There's no such thing as playing with cold fingers on a cold instrument. It's just horrible. Even if you think you're warmed up well enough, this might be what's missing. These archtop guitars have a life of their own. They need the right conditions to vibrate. If things are all right after some playing, you will immediately realize it by the way they sound. It's a physical thing. At least, that's what I think.
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Man ain't that the truth. I have played outdoor rock gigs where we were wearing coats and hats, not because we looked cool, but because we were cold. I have some fingerless fishing gloves I have worn on those sorts of things. Originally Posted by Uli
Not bad if you are mainly banging out power chords, and simple pentatonic lead lines, but blowing jazz change? Fagetaboutit!
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When staleness sets in, most people cure it with a new guitar.
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All great points, and all will help... For me to get in the groove, pocket etc... what ever you want to call it, you need to be aware of the thythmic pulse, we are part of the rhythm section. When you play your molodic ideas in the the right places, even your not so great ideas will at least fit in the groove. Think of phrases of what ever length you can handle, 1 bar, 2 bars, 4 bars etc., typical grooves are even # of bars, and repeat it, like theme and variation but with rhythm. It's always great to play some R&B or funk tunes tunes, there all groove. I play live all the time, and when guys don't lock into the groove, it's a lot of work, rather than enjoyment to make music... Reg Originally Posted by abracadabra
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...So no booze or drugs.Hmmm. It makes players what?They seemed to help on most of the best recordings since the 50's or longer probably.
Not condoning just sayin'Last edited by Metal Fingers; 01-20-2010 at 01:35 PM.
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did they really? Originally Posted by Metal Fingers
i want you to dig up two records by chet baker-- stan meets chet (with stan getz) and "daybreak," with doug raney.
i've read several chet bios, and chet's using patterns were all over the place, but one thing seems to be certain--chet was high as a kite with stan, and going thru withdrawl when he recorded daybreak. tell me which album sounds good.
indeed this is only a slice, and i'm sure there's plenty of good records where the players were all stoned out of their minds. my point is not so much to say that "drugs hurt" as it is "drugs don't necessarily help."
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Urban legend. Have you ever seen an episode of VH1's Behind the Music? Originally Posted by Metal Fingers
I can think of so many players who have crashed or have been fired due to their use. Any benefit that might be derived is just not worth the risk. Everyone thinks they are in control...until they aren't. Nobody knows where that line is, but it exists in all of us. OF course, we are talking about more than just a couple of beers.
Want a recent example of a player who lost his great gig, and is just awful now, look no further than Dickie Betts. So sad. The best treatment of this dynamic was in the seminal rock movie Rock Hard.
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Originally Posted by Metal Fingers
I've got an album by Billie Holiday done in 1958. Compared to her early work before she started getting high it sounds like shit.
Look at Clapton after D&D. How long did it take him to get his mojo back? Besides do you think that he played better because he was high? I don't think that's the way he tells it these days.
Back in the late 70's I used to be a hired gun for a 50's doo wop band. We played the Jersey Shore, (Yes those very same clubs that you see on that silly MTV show) area ski resorts , what have you. Some well known clubs.
They were the biggest bunch of boozing misfits. They could never figure out why the agent stopped calling with gigs and they finally self destructed. It's because they partied too much at the gig and it showed in their playing. Sloppy.
I could go on for paragraphs about musicians I know that just fell apart because they liked the juice and the herb a bit too much. A drink or two at the gig. Ok. But to say someone played better.........I don't think so.
But please. Don't let me sway you in any way. If you feel that your playing is enhanced by booze/drugs, don't let me tell you otherwise. You'll have to decide that for yourself
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Isn't there a story with Roy Buchanan? He was supposed to record with John Lennon, but he passed out on the mixing board.
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On drugs and booze:
I think that substances makes a musician sound better to himself, but probably worse to the audience.
On creativity and being too hard on yourself:
It's an artist's greatest burden (any type of art) if you ask me. The public is oftentimes easily impressed by the decorative aspects of artistry - making easily recognized and "listenable" musical statements even if they are mainly cliches, making derivative music that is in vogue at the moment. Painting in a photorealistic style so that people say "wow, looks just like a photograph!" or rendering sentimental or salacious subjects to acheive a predictable emotional response. The lay person often likes things that the artist thinks is hackneyed in their own work after they've acheived a certain level of mastery. This often leads artists to do work they inwardly hate so they can be a commercial success.
But when an artist goes deep inside themselves to explore, and gets to the essence...the emotional content of the subject - that oftentimes meets with critical disdain or indifference. Because sometimes the essence of the subject, the true nature of it, and its relationship to everything else that witnesses it, isn't always pretty or easily understood or easily experienced.
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I guess drink helps you relax, so the first time you drink before playing, you find you're less self-conscious, so then you start drinking more, and down the slope you go.
Same with drugs. Getting high at first makes you either play things you didn't play before, so they sound more interesting, or you look at things differently, so they get more interesting, so you take more drugs, and down the slope you go.
My point is, I think the drug/alcohol addictions which follow are actually started by an addiction to the change you experience, either in yourself or in your playing, when you drink or do drugs initially. Unfortunately, replicating the transition from sober to not-sober means you have to be sober for a good length of time first, and the other effects of intoxicants don't lend themselves well to promoting long periods of soberness.
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Concerning Herb usage before playing,
Ehh, I don't know. I used to do so alot before jammin' with buddies and even a few times before shows. Definitely helps me relax and let the creativity flow, but I can't lie, I wouldn't do it again.
I like to be in a mindset where I'm fully in control, and the only high I'm experiencing is the music.
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