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  1. #101

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    Played it straight using the recommended fingerings from exercise 2.1. Backing track is via Band In A Box at 115 bpm with a click track in 3/4 time. Recording yourself is a humbling act...


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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

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    In defense of "Elle":

    there's more to it than meets the eye - having worked with the book before I always got the feeling that there are "hidden" lessons that don't get special mention in the text.

    - keep in mind that it's a practice progression to apply what we've just learned and practiced in the first few pages - nothing too complex so we can feel free to use our newly acquired knowledge.

    - The changes lend themselves to move from one chord to the next chromatically from one note to another note in the next chord (or its extensions).

    - introduction to a Bossa rhythm

    - phrasing: dotted notes, syncopation, quarter triplets and sixteenths.

    - try to imagine Miles Davis playing the tune - it has a lot of the features of a Miles tune: a simple slow moving melody with lots of space and a general overall modal feel.

  4. #103

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    Good call, Tommo. I will think Miles when I play this tomorrow.

    Quick question - what's the secret to playing quarter note triplets. I always struggle with these little devils!

  5. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    In defense of "Elle":

    there's more to it than meets the eye - having worked with the book before I always got the feeling that there are "hidden" lessons that don't get special mention in the text.

    - keep in mind that it's a practice progression to apply what we've just learned and practiced in the first few pages - nothing too complex so we can feel free to use our newly acquired knowledge.

    - The changes lend themselves to move from one chord to the next chromatically from one note to another note in the next chord (or its extensions).

    - introduction to a Bossa rhythm

    - phrasing: dotted notes, syncopation, quarter triplets and sixteenths.

    - try to imagine Miles Davis playing the tune - it has a lot of the features of a Miles tune: a simple slow moving melody with lots of space and a general overall modal feel.

    Great post TOMMO. And on point.

    Not to be preachy, but it's not really about Fewell's fingerings, original tunes, or melodies.

    Rather, it's about learning, assimilating, and applying the fundamentals of the jazz langage to the guitar. Fewell did the hard word in analyzing, breaking it down, applying it to the guitar, and explaining it so that students don't have to do all that research on their own. (The fact is that most people would never bother). As Fewell covers most concepts he advises the student to; (1) write their own solo, and (2) improvise their own solo - based upon those same concepts. That's where individual expression comes in.

    So:
    1. It's not about aping Fewell, or even Bird, Trane, Wes, Charlie, George, etc.
    2. Like many or most improv studies the material is largely about generating competent jazz lines, or "running the changes like an authentic jazzer".
    3. Despite that, many or most "real" solos aren't devoted 100% to line running, start to finish. They include space, motifs, melodic sequences, "licks", slides, shouts, shakes, doits, etc. But we need to know how to construct and render effective and authentic jazz lines in real time.
    4. Learning all this material and then applying it in our own way is where the real value comes in, IMO.

  6. #105

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    Had a few minutes (but only a few) this afternoon and thought I'd try this again. I played Em / D at the wrong place, which I sometimes do. But the main thing is that I have now posted something to this group. The ice is broken. Things should get much better from this day forward. ;o)


  7. #106

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    The benefit of Elle, I think, comes from playing it over and over again, ad nauseum. I’ve noticed my ear is starting to hear the somewhat odd changes ahead of time, and that I am finding more interesting ways to move from one chord to the next. Also: I think GF’s own line over the Bb-9 chord encourages our minds, ears, and fingers to be working towards a less position-oriented approach. Can you do a nice little melody line like GF’s on that Bb-9, on only two strings moving up and down through multiple positions on the neck? I think there’s a ton to work on here. Reminds me of the benefits of practicing Mick Goodrick’s single string “unitar” concept.

  8. #107

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    Was just going thru Elle identifying all the extensions as per the instructions and it is pretty straightforward until bar 10 where there is a C note between two Db/b7's is the C a simple passing/approach tone? everything else in the tune is from an appropriate major or minor triad or am I being dense ?

    Will

    ps - great to see folks plowing ahead and sounding so solid!!!.

  9. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by WillMbCdn5
    Was just going thru Elle identifying all the extensions as per the instructions and it is pretty straightforward until bar 10 where there is a C note between two Db/b7's is the C a simple passing/approach tone? everything else in the tune is from an appropriate major or minor triad or am I being dense ?

    Will

    ps - great to see folks plowing ahead and sounding so solid!!!.
    That's over the Eb-7 chord and c is the sixth. The way I perceive it: since this is not actual diatonoc harmony but more of a modal tune you have a choice of the minor or major sixth.

  10. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger
    Good call, Tommo. I will think Miles when I play this tomorrow.

    Quick question - what's the secret to playing quarter note triplets. I always struggle with these little devils!
    If you can feel eighth note triplets just slow them down to half time (count only beats one and three). That's how it seems to work for me.

  11. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by WillMbCdn5
    Was just going thru Elle identifying all the extensions as per the instructions and it is pretty straightforward until bar 10 where there is a C note between two Db/b7's is the C a simple passing/approach tone? everything else in the tune is from an appropriate major or minor triad or am I being dense ?
    I puzzled on that one, too. The C note doesn't feature in the triads for Eb-7(9) so I assume it is a passing note and is there to "give us permission" to do the same :-) It's a nice note to add in!

  12. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Thanks! Yes, you're right, I am getting comfortable with it. It feels like what I should have been playing all along. Live and learn. ;o)
    I got my first Tele style guitar a year ago (it is a Danocaster) and my only regret is that I did not have a Tele 30 years ago. I was a Strat guy...but I find the Tele to be so much more versatile and useful.
    I was always fumbling with the pick up selector on a Strat. Now the choices are easy

    I will get a Chapter 2 vid up as soon as I get some time. Enjoying everybody's posts and commitment to this great book.

  13. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger
    I puzzled on that one, too. The C note doesn't feature in the triads for Eb-7(9) so I assume it is a passing note and is there to "give us permission" to do the same :-) It's a nice note to add in!
    Yes, and the characteristic tone of the Dorian mode...

  14. #113

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    Well - here is my effort on EX 2.1 . First time I ever created a vid so hope this works ok



    Will

  15. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by WillMbCdn5
    Well - here is my effort on EX 2.1 . First time I ever created a vid so hope this works ok



    Will
    Works proper - you're on your way!

    p.s.: beautiful guitar.

  16. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    Today's offering: Exercise 2.3 "Elle":



    Well done !
    Nice Phrasing


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by WillMbCdn5
    Was just going thru Elle identifying all the extensions as per the instructions and it is pretty straightforward until bar 10 where there is a C note between two Db/b7's is the C a simple passing/approach tone? everything else in the tune is from an appropriate major or minor triad or am I being dense ?

    Will

    ps - great to see folks plowing ahead and sounding so solid!!!.
    I believe that you are talking about the phrase F - Eb - Db - C - Db - F - Ab.
    If you are, Eb-7 is the II chord of Db major. The C is the 7th note in Db major. I hope that answers your question.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #117

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    A little teaser and one of my favourite tracks by Mr. Montgomery. Listen and I'm sure you'll recognize a lot of the things we're working on already:




  19. #118

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    I got the book yesterday. Previously I only had a selection of pages in the amazon look inside feature and didn't realize it was missing page 13. So page 13...

    Last edited by fep; 01-04-2020 at 04:37 PM.

  20. #119

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    Goodness I knew I was out of my depth here to begin with !! But Fep has his own back up band !!!!

    Will

  21. #120

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    Guessin everyone has their heads down and fingers dancing across the fretboard aiming for some end of January " Elle" recordings . I'm working on pages 18-22. It has been mentioned before but it seems that Garrison liked to drop little nugget hints into things . He had that 6th in " Elle" that opened a door which he mentioned at the end of Ch1 .

    On page 20 he describes some voicings for Gm to use as accompaniment , all of which are spread style voicings . If you take the Gm/Fmaj combo and map it out as spread triads using strings D/B and E you get some beautiful, open airy sounds to work with .

    Will
    Last edited by WillMbCdn5; 01-07-2020 at 08:39 PM.

  22. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by WillMbCdn5
    Guessin everyone has their heads down and fingers dancing across the fretboard aiming for some end of January " Elle" recordings . I'm working on pages 18-22. It has been mentioned before but it seems that Garrison liked to drop little nugget hints into things . He had that 6th in " Elle" that opened a door which he mentioned at the end of Ch1 .

    On page 20 he describes some voicings for Gm to use as accompaniment , all of which are spread style voicings . If you take the Gm/Fmaj combo and map it out as spread triads using strings D/B and E you get some beautiful, open airy sounds to work with .

    Will
    You've probably figured out by now I'm not a jazz purist, for that matter jazz represents maybe 10% of my listening time. I looked ahead at the voicings you are refering to and tried them out. Hey, it's Eric Johnson, he uses these sounds a lot. Listen to first minute of this video for some spread voicing triad beauty (WARNING: if you go past 1 minute you will be bombarded by rock guitar)


  23. #122

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    Its all good! I'm not a jazz purist either!!! I hear lots of different players being reflected .
    Last edited by WillMbCdn5; 01-07-2020 at 10:54 PM.

  24. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by WillMbCdn5
    Guessin everyone has their heads down and fingers dancing across the fretboard aiming for some end of January " Elle" recordings
    Still working on playing the shapes through all keys, though I have had a couple of early bashes at Elle. The shapes are starting to get there, and I'll try and post a video soon - but as feared, the post Xmas return to work has scuppered things timewise.

    I must check out those chord shapes / voicings. I do like the openness in the Elle backing track.

    Derek

  25. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by WillMbCdn5
    Garrison liked to drop little nugget hints into things .

    Will
    That's exactly what I noticed the first time around - A little later in the book for example: a sample solo over "So What" with no tab, only standard notation, forcing the reader to read....I'm also sure that he wants the reader to take "Elle" through the keys to learn the fretboard.

  26. #125

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    Ok, here's my attempt at Exercise 2.2. Plenty of hesitations and flubs. But it is what it is. If this meets with the approval of the group I shall move on to Elle...



    Cheers
    Derek

  27. #126

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    Good job Derek, my vote, good to move on.
    Last edited by fep; 01-08-2020 at 02:00 PM.

  28. #127

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    Nice sounds...speaking of Elle...found this a while back on YT it's the backing track in case you don't have a CD player handy


  29. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger
    Ok, here's my attempt at Exercise 2.2. Plenty of hesitations and flubs. But it is what it is. If this meets with the approval of the group I shall move on to Elle...



    Cheers
    Derek
    The group approves, Derek! ;o)
    I found that exercise tricky but worthwhile. I suspect that later we will all appreciate the importance of learning those patterns and fingerings.

  30. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger
    Ok, here's my attempt at Exercise 2.2. Plenty of hesitations and flubs. But it is what it is. If this meets with the approval of the group I shall move on to Elle...



    Cheers
    Derek
    I think you've robbed yourself of some breathing space there (not that you need it mind - but I do!).

    Descending onto the full note in the third bar gives me time to set myself up for the chord and from there orientate myself for the next key. Just tried descending onto the chord and find that I get (even more) flustered and lose track of where I'm going next.

  31. #130

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    While the practice tune "Elle" may/may not send one's heart soaring, I can think of a few reasons why it's worthwhile to practice and play:


    1. It's really just a variant of "So What" harmonically speaking. Instead of two Dorian modes spaced 1/2 step apart (D and Eb) there are four - Bb and A, Eb and D.
    2. After 1959 all jazz musicians are expected to know how to effectively play a Dorian jam (So What, Impressions, etc).
    3. It's a slow Bossa. Jazz musicians are also expected to be able to play Bossa Nova tunes. Well, Latin rhythms can be very tricky but this one isn't very tough.
    4. Fewell has the student improvising using "chord tone soloing" over the Min7, Min9, Min11 chord, however you want to look at it. (Yes, you can also Dorian doodle if you want)
    5. Fewell has the student playing the fretboard vertically and horizontally while they Dorian jam/chord tone solo on Min7 harmony.


    So whether Elle trips your triggger or floats your boat - or not - these are all valuable and worthwhile skill sets, IMO.

  32. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
    While the practice tune "Elle" may/may not send one's heart soaring, I can think of a few reasons why it's worthwhile to practice and play:


    1. It's really just a variant of "So What" harmonically speaking. Instead of two Dorian modes spaced 1/2 step apart (D and Eb) there are four - Bb and A, Eb and D.
    2. After 1959 all jazz musicians are expected to know how to effectively play a Dorian jam (So What, Impressions, etc).
    3. It's a slow Bossa. Jazz musicians are also expected to be able to play Bossa Nova tunes. Well, Latin rhythms can be very tricky but this one isn't very tough.
    4. Fewell has the student improvising using "chord tone soloing" over the Min7, Min9, Min11 chord, however you want to look at it. (Yes, you can also Dorian doodle if you want)
    5. Fewell has the student playing the fretboard vertically and horizontally while they Dorian jam/chord tone solo on Min7 harmony.


    So whether Elle trips your triggger or floats your boat - or not - these are all valuable and worthwhile skill sets, IMO.
    Upfront I love gritty blues drenched jazz/messy swing stuff / hard bop with an attitude !!! modal or bossa stuff is a bit out of my wheelhouse, I don't mind it but don't gravite towards it . I love KOB Miles but have no need to emulate it. I am finding that for me the challenge is this !!!- ok says Garrison here are some basic tones and a useful way of organizing them . Try using them in the context of this simple tune " Elle" . It is after all a book about improv so improv away within this simple framework. Dang!!! Garrison now your making me actually work and think and imagine and create something!!!! I was fine with the exercises already ))

    Playing through the triad pairs against the context given has opened my ears massively already , I am discovering what I don't really care for and what I do . Who knew I also absolutely love huge open voicings , spread triads and lots of intervallic sounds.

    Will

  33. #132

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    Plugged-in time is pretty well nonexistent at the moment, but I managed to squeeze in a quick clip while my daughter was brushing her teeth.

    Here is the melody, followed by one chorus of the triads+extensions, and then two choruses of improv (i.e., sloppy noodling). I tried my best to stick to the triad/ext tones -- not easy! It kind of falls apart at the end, but I didn't have time for another take, so I'd advise stopping the video at exactly 2:14.


  34. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
    While the practice tune "Elle" may/may not send one's heart soaring, I can think of a few reasons why it's worthwhile to practice and play:


    1. It's really just a variant of "So What" harmonically speaking. Instead of two Dorian modes spaced 1/2 step apart (D and Eb) there are four - Bb and A, Eb and D.
    2. After 1959 all jazz musicians are expected to know how to effectively play a Dorian jam (So What, Impressions, etc).
    3. It's a slow Bossa. Jazz musicians are also expected to be able to play Bossa Nova tunes. Well, Latin rhythms can be very tricky but this one isn't very tough.
    4. Fewell has the student improvising using "chord tone soloing" over the Min7, Min9, Min11 chord, however you want to look at it. (Yes, you can also Dorian doodle if you want)
    5. Fewell has the student playing the fretboard vertically and horizontally while they Dorian jam/chord tone solo on Min7 harmony.


    So whether Elle trips your triggger or floats your boat - or not - these are all valuable and worthwhile skill sets, IMO.
    I totally agree with all of the above. "Elle" isn't the most inspiring tune of all time, but let's keep in mind that it is really just an exercise to get these minor arpeggios under the fingers, and get used to moving them around using small shifts.

    You'll also be heartened to hear that after "Elle", the rest of the practice progressions in the book are actual standards:
    Hot Saw = So What
    Three B's = Baubles, Bangles, and Beads
    Blues for Charlie = Um, Blues
    East Ghost Blues = West Coast Blues
    Lovers No More = Just Friends
    Rhythm Changes =
    Love Is Beautiful = Beautiful Love
    Tune It Up! = Tune Up
    Bossa Azure = Blue Bossa
    Falling Leaves = Autumn Leaves

  35. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu
    Plugged-in time is pretty well nonexistent at the moment, but I managed to squeeze in a quick clip while my daughter was brushing her teeth.

    Here is the melody, followed by one chorus of the triads+extensions, and then two choruses of improv (i.e., sloppy noodling). I tried my best to stick to the triad/ext tones -- not easy! It kind of falls apart at the end, but I didn't have time for another take, so I'd advise stopping the video at exactly 2:14.

    Nice job! I like what you did around 1:50 in particular.

  36. #135

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    I don't love Elle either, but I'm also scratching my head trying to find his triad pairs in the melody. Am I just too dense to see them? In fact, the only triad I see is in bar 10.

    I get that it is not reasonable to expect to make a melody only out of his triad pairs, and that this is a minor7(9) only progression to give us an exercise. But I feel I may be missing something in this exercise. Why give us the head and not just a backing track if the head doesn't relate to the chapter?

  37. #136

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    He suggests going through the melody provided and naming the intervals- which I found very helpful to be honest. So the notes in the tab are by my reading in relation to the tonic in the first few bars -

    bar 1/2/3 ...... bar 4 - b7/bar5- 5 / bar6 - 11,b3 9,b3/ bar7 - b3,b3,b3 /bar8 - b3 etc etc etc - happy to be corrected if I am wrong!!! So he is using just some bits and bobs

    Everything relates to the triad pairs, he is just using fragments /selected intervals/jumping around to create a melody , rather than creating a melody composed of lines that run up and down the 6 note grouping. I think he has also purposefuly created a very open melody rather than saying hey here is a melody using every single element of the triad pairs. . Try taking bars 4/5/6 and 7 and create a variation on that theme or idea using parts of the triad pairs he has provided in the previous exercises. He is after all trying to help us improvise

    hope that helps

    Will

  38. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    I don't love Elle either, but I'm also scratching my head trying to find his triad pairs in the melody. Am I just too dense to see them? In fact, the only triad I see is in bar 10.

    I get that it is not reasonable to expect to make a melody only out of his triad pairs, and that this is a minor7(9) only progression to give us an exercise. But I feel I may be missing something in this exercise. Why give us the head and not just a backing track if the head doesn't relate to the chapter?
    I would say - don't overestimate the melody content relative to your solo. It's important of course - but - realize that most jazz or standard tune melodies are relatively simple as compared to instrumental solos and are frequently to be sung, with some clever lyrics etc. etc.

    What the typical jazz musician does with the tune after that is order of magnitude more involved than what the singer sang.

    So, one discipline is to try to solo playing ONLY chord tones/arpeggios. That's basically what Fewell calls for here. Use rhythmic variation to try to make it sound musical. It can get tedious after a chorus - and especially two - but it's worth working on as a skill. Then maybe express yourself more liberally with extemporaneous Dorian "melodic improv" (hopefully).

    But that's just one approach....

  39. #138

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    Elle, I made an attempt at finding triads. I made the assumption that the whole triad was not always played. I think that over the Bb-7, triads are probably not the way to think of it as to me that seems to be more of a scale sequnce (but I took a stab at triads anyways. I think regarding triads, there is more in this melody than he has taught at this point of the book.

    And to simplify, I like to start on a chord tone, any chord tone and play thirds from there. For example, A-7, start on the root you get A C E = Am, start on 3rd you get C E G = CMaj, start on the 5th you get E G B = Em, start on the 7th you get G B D = Em. That way you don't even have to think of triad names or note names or scale degrees.
    Attached Images Attached Images Fewell's Melodic Approach - Ch. 1-2-elle-png 
    Last edited by fep; 01-09-2020 at 12:58 AM.

  40. #139

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    I've made an iReal Pro chart for Elle, for those who would like to transpose it to different keys... hopefully this works:

    Elle - Google Drive

  41. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    I don't love Elle either, but I'm also scratching my head trying to find his triad pairs in the melody. Am I just too dense to see them? In fact, the only triad I see is in bar 10.

    I get that it is not reasonable to expect to make a melody only out of his triad pairs, and that this is a minor7(9) only progression to give us an exercise. But I feel I may be missing something in this exercise. Why give us the head and not just a backing track if the head doesn't relate to the chapter?
    He might not be playing them as actual triads, but if you go through it, every note in the melody is part of the relevant triad+extension for the underlying chord (except for the C/6th in bar 10, as mentioned previously).

    I think the point he's making is: Here is a pool of notes that we can use to make melodic content, and a useful way of visualising them on the fretboard... not that we should necessarily be playing them in thirds or as triads.

    Does that help?

  42. #141

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    That's exactly how I see it, too, Jay.

    Derek

  43. #142

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    Good discussion here. Jay: well done - don't worry about any clams - we all produce them

  44. #143

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    First take on Elle. Trying to find my way. Trying to use the triads which goes out to extensions but then I get pulled back in which seems to be where I'm migrating too.


  45. #144

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    Here we go. Last take of the night, warts and all.



  46. #145

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    Here’s one more. Improvement I have noticed from a couple of weeks ago is ideas coming from my ear rather than the fingerings. I can see at times I am hearing something in my head that my fingers can’t grab quickly enough. I think that’s a good sign that I am absorbing some of this.



  47. #146

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    Nicely done wzpgsr!!!. I really enjoyed v2 lots of space and I think I hear in both of them lots of very deliberate phrasing and ideas that stay and work within the triads+extensions without being a slave to the fingering patterns.

    Will

  48. #147

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    Well done Fep and wzpgsr. Nicely done in both cases!

    Derek

  49. #148

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    I did a quick loop instead of using the backing track. My apologies if you wanted to hear the intro melody one more time Also I borrowed a few ideas from chapter 3 I think. I didn't do such a good job of connecting the lines from one chord to the next. But here goes:


  50. #149

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    Okay... here's my version warts (*) and all. I tried to do a couple of things - one develop (in my case this means "repeat") little fragments to at least give some semblance of logic, to find some melodies (not a strong point of mine...yet, anyway - hopefully "A Melodic Approach will help), to try and build up the feel/intensity as I progressed through the choruses, and - most of all - try and link the chords / shapes across the bar lines. I'm pretty happy with how this turned out (it was Take # 2) and how I managed the above. Apologies for the 1960's style TV zoom in / out of focus. I think the camera AF was too finely set and thus when I started grooving so the focus went.

    (*) My timing on the melody especially!

    Anyway, I can't wait to turn the page and move on! Still a few pages left in this chapter.



    Cheers
    Derek

  51. #150

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    Wow, awesome playing, folks! Cool to hear the different approaches that people are taking to this progression. I think Garrison would be proud. Derek, I dig the 60s special effects -- it adds to the groove!

    If anyone is after an extra challenge, a good exercise is to improvise through the progression using constant, steady 8ths with no rests. This is the approach taken in the Howard Roberts' Superchops course that wzpgsr and I did a while back (and an exercise that Bruce Forman highly recommends). I can't speak for wzpgsr, but I really got a lot out of it... definitely not exciting to listen to, but it really cements the changes in. Then once you play with more rhythmic freedom, you've got a much more solid foundation to stand on.