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  1. #1

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    Posting this here because I believe this is where the most experienced forum members visit the most. Legit question. Is learning and playing jazz as complicated as you all make it appear to be.

    Thanks,

    Greg

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnatola View Post
    Posting this here because I believe this is where the most experienced forum members visit the most. Legit question. Is learning and playing jazz as complicated as you all make it appear to be.

    Thanks,

    Greg
    Words are a really bad way of communicating about music?

    Learn jazz the way you would any music.

    Avoid this forum, it’s a time sink. (Although I did get my Es175 here)

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnatola View Post
    Posting this here because I believe this is where the most experienced forum members visit the most. Legit question. Is learning and playing jazz as complicated as you all make it appear to be.

    Thanks,

    Greg
    Good question. But there isn't one answer.

    At one extreme, I like to mention Andres Varady who is a great player, at a very young age, and knew absolutely no theory. Well, at least not in words. He knows plenty about the sounds. But would you call that "complicated"?

    Then, there are players who have the great ears as well as plenty of education and self-study. Apparently, some of them have developed their playing with copious amounts of theory and acquisition of jazz language -- and knowing a massive number of tunes -- and may have developed their ears with formal ear training or simply by listening and copying. For them, "complicated" is probably fair.

    For the solid, but maybe unspectacular, pro level player, s/he needs to know how to read, plenty about chord voicings, how to solo, plenty about different grooves and how to make them sound authentic, great time feel at all times, lots of tunes, enough gear-head knowledge to get a good sound in different sorts of venues etc etc. There's a lot of skill involved and it isn't easy to acquire. If your goal is to be that kind of player, well, yes, it's "complicated" or, at least, "demanding".

  5. #4

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    In what style do you want to play? Maybe list a few guitarists that you’d like like to emulate?

    What level of proficiency do you want to get to? I.e., do you want to be world class, or a first call musician in your town, or just be able to have fun at a neighborhood jam and maybe do a few casual gigs? (For me, I’m afraid it’s the latter.)

  6. #5

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    It wasn't complicated enough to keep beboppers in the late 40's from becoming experts at age 19-20......

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnatola View Post
    Is learning and playing jazz as complicated as you all make it appear to be.
    Yes, but there is hope. Not much, but some :-)

  8. #7

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    buy band in a box .head for JG solos folder...all are standards...enough material for years of practise..you have a headstart ..scales . nah .. never bothered.. good luck...

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    It wasn't complicated enough to keep beboppers in the late 40's from becoming experts at age 19-20......
    They practiced around 12 to 16 hours a day during years to learn their thing, at an age when learning is fast when compared to doing that at 50 or 60.
    and most of them ended up drug addicts, possibly starting that during their learning period.

    So may be that was somehow complicated :-)
    Perfection is in the Details, but Perfection isn't a Detail (Leonardo da Vinci)

  10. #9

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    How did we learn speak the language(s) we use every day?





  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnatola View Post
    Posting this here because I believe this is where the most experienced forum members visit the most. Legit question. Is learning and playing jazz as complicated as you all make it appear to be.

    Thanks,

    Greg
    I think this guy answers your question in this blog post I ran across.
    Learn Jazz Guitar: How to Get Started Now! | The Strugglin' Guitarist
    BTW, that video above that Christian made is great. Watch it. It's the best video on improvisation I've scene.

  12. #11

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    Christian -

    Good vid. You said at the end what I was thinking - exactly, you're 'improvising' when speaking. You don't sit down without any idea at all of what you're going to say. There's a rough plan, then you go from there.

    Mind you, one is surely constrained by one's knowledge. We can only come out with what's already in the brain, as it were, and I'm sure playing is just like that. There are various things one can do over a melody/progression and we play what we basically already know...

    Which makes it sound as if there's no creative spontaneity. But the odd thing is that there is. It can happen that one suddenly pulls something out the bag and wonders where it came from.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Neverisky View Post
    How did we learn speak the language(s) we use every day?





    Weinstein seems to be doing his best Woody Allen. That ship has sailed Aaron.

  14. #13

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    Woody Allen

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    Weinstein seems to be doing his best Woody Allen. That ship has sailed Aaron.
    Ship? What ship?

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnatola View Post
    Posting this here because I believe this is where the most experienced forum members visit the most. Legit question. Is learning and playing jazz as complicated as you all make it appear to be.

    Thanks,

    Greg
    Depends on what you consider complicated. Most things discussed in this forum are not complicated considering the topic is jazz performance. In fact I think it's rare that anything discussed here to be too complicated to be inaccessible to a typical jazz musician.
    Generally jazz guitarists need to know their instruments to a high degree compared to most other musical styles. Of course you can't know your instrument without understanding the relevant concepts of music. That may come across as complicated to people who come to jazz from mostly verbatim repertoire performance oriented styles. But the concepts are actually simple to understand, it just takes an awful lot of work to internalize them.

  17. #16

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    As jazz has evolved, players have looked for ways to extend the possibilities of (a) what could be played over a given chord or progression and (b) how a given chord or chord progression could be reharmonized while still maintaining its musical “sense”. Although this could possibly be done intuitively by ear, it also could be done, and perhaps more effectively, by applying theoretical ideas from classical music, world music, or other sources.

    Concepts that start out “intellectual” can eventually make their way into ones ear and become more intuitive. But it is often useful to apply rather dry concepts like pentatonics, hexatonics, complex rhythms, etc that start theoretically and make their way into your jazz language, eventually becoming raw material for ideas when improvising.

  18. #17

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    I can't guess what your perception of how complicated it seems is. Relatively speaking, though, it's more complicated than rock, folk, or bluegrass, as examples. Not that much more, though. In those styles, there's basically a few common keys (E, C, G, Am, etc.) and major, minor, dom 7, occasional dim chords, mostly I iv V.

    In jazz, add more keys, maj & min 7, m7b5, dim, 6/9/11/13 chords, scales beyond major & pentatonic (modes, if you will), and rhythmically, syncopation. Tunes may have more changes, but there's still AABA, turnarounds, etc.

    If you look at it as learning the whole guitar, without limitation, jazz is indeed like a language with a broader vocabulary

  19. #18

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    I don't know who "y'all" is, but I don't think jazz is complicated to learn.

    You have to be patient, that's all. But there's less than a dozen things to learn really, to be more than an adequate player. You just have to spend a few 1,000 hours on each
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington