The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I think of the charts I'd see high school "jazz band" kids bringing me, when I was teaching. Every chord was a combination of everything that was happening harmonically at the moment. Painful.
    I think the big band chart thing in the last few posts is probably a good observation. It's really a chicken /egg thing, a situation of it not mattering at all basically, by the time you're able to actually PLAY it with or without a chart anyway. So, those who need the chart the most in the beginning are gonna be the most confounded by it.

    A smoking pianist is going to probably appreciate the extra harmonic information, but he knows what to edit down from it.

    Reading a lot of reg's posts over the last few years , I've really come to see study of jazz harmony as a kind of tessellation. You can go either direction with it. You can generalize harmony more broadly , or you can go more microscopic , using larger harmonic movements in shorter timeframe etc.

    I think it's interesting that even players like Barry Harris utilize the both directions aspect. He's really all about boiling a blues down to very very simple changes for beginners , but he also teaches how to actually melodically outline more specific turnaround sections of that same blues later. so, you could be there at the same time: you can really generalize basic , or you can actually use the chord changes or what's played other instruments to "justify" melodic approaches etc.

    I don't know that there's anyway around the fact that you there's a big learning curve with knowing what to edit out of the chart in the beginning. There's simply too much variety in style of charts. Many are basically transcriptions of everything as you say.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #77

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    ‘Jazz is a decorative art’ Pete Bernstein

    you can’t decorate a baroque church.

    skilled jazz musicians also have to be handy with the paint stripper....

  4. #78

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    I've been writing a little more lately. Music, that is.

    I work out the tune, usually on guitar, and get chord sounds I like. If I distill them to chord symbols, the pianist interprets them his own way and my tune doesn't sound right. So, lately, I've been adding suggested voicings by spelling out the chord voicing I want at the beginning of the bar in x'ed noteheads. The chart includes a note that these are suggested. Then I introduce the tune by strumming my chords and singing the melody to the group so they hear the idea. I'm trying to find a middle ground between specifying every note and having it be so open the tune gets lost.

    When I think about a big band arranger, he's got the same problem but he's not in the room. The chart has to be specific enough to elicit the sounds he has in mind. For the chord instruments he will usually provide chord names that include all the alterations in the horns. If he doesn't do that, the chord player may play a note a half step off. When he does do it, the chord symbols are hard to read and may require the chord player to figure out what to omit. When I can nail the exact voicing on guitar it usually sounds good. If I strip out all the alterations and play, say, 3rds and 7ths, it also sounds good. But, were I to play a natural 5th at the top of a #11 chord, not so good.

  5. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    ‘Jazz is a decorative art’ Pete Bernstein

    you can’t decorate a baroque church.

    skilled jazz musicians also have to be handy with the paint stripper....
    I've been saying this a lot lately, but it seems my whole life now is looking at complicated tunes and trying to simply them, and looking at simple tunes and trying to add stuff.

  6. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    I've been writing a little more lately. Music, that is.

    I work out the tune, usually on guitar, and get chord sounds I like. If I distill them to chord symbols, the pianist interprets them his own way and my tune doesn't sound right. So, lately, I've been adding suggested voicings by spelling out the chord voicing I want at the beginning of the bar in x'ed noteheads. The chart includes a note that these are suggested. Then I introduce the tune by strumming my chords and singing the melody to the group so they hear the idea. I'm trying to find a middle ground between specifying every note and having it be so open the tune gets lost.

    When I think about a big band arranger, he's got the same problem but he's not in the room. The chart has to be specific enough to elicit the sounds he has in mind. For the chord instruments he will usually provide chord names that include all the alterations in the horns. If he doesn't do that, the chord player may play a note a half step off. When he does do it, the chord symbols are hard to read and may require the chord player to figure out what to omit. When I can nail the exact voicing on guitar it usually sounds good. If I strip out all the alterations and play, say, 3rds and 7ths, it also sounds good. But, were I to play a natural 5th at the top of a #11 chord, not so good.
    Context is king

    Also not being comped for by people with ears and not the type of plonker who feels it’s their job to painstakingly realise every voicing as written in the lead sheet.

    (seriously why do people like that bother paying jazz?)

  7. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I've been saying this a lot lately, but it seems my whole life now is looking at complicated tunes and trying to simply them, and looking at simple tunes and trying to add stuff.
    Yea that happens as you become a better player....

    I think the reason most have trouble with chord symbols, is because we like "simple"... with embellishments. And when more information becomes involved... ( more detailed harmonic references), we tend to overload, or maybe we just don't understand what's implied or what tends to be more important.... What's not implied.

    Eventually all tunes just become a blues. By that I mean... not literally, but they all become simple chord patterns and a melody. Or a Melody and simple chord patterns... I remember tunes by the melodies and also by chord patterns with target notes.

    So maybe that's why chord symbols have become the study of jazz. Most don't understand them in context(s), and think that CST is music theory.

    Or if it seems like a waste of time, or all BS... I realized when I was a kid... all or any theory, harmony or system of organized ideas based on principles was useless without ... just getting your technical skills together.... and just being able to play. Good players can make anything sound great. ( obviously ears are part of technical skills).

    Personally... I like it all, the playin and the BSin