The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26
    Reg's tldr is something like:

    Use all typical targeting type ideas , but deemphasize the tritone and tritone resolution... 3–7, 7–3 etc.

    Utilize "characteristic pitch" of the given mode to set up cadence patterns etc.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27
    they really tried, next time I'll write out my question before asking it. Still interesting stuff:


  4. #28
    I didn't want this thread to get buried, listen to what Adam and Peter had to say about all this--VERY INTERESTING
    Last edited by Irez87; 06-23-2019 at 08:42 PM.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    they really tried, next time I'll write out my question before asking it. Still interesting stuff:

    Great blog, I wanna check out their other ones now. Cheers!

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    bebop has a rhythmic foundation that classifies notes and note choice
    Is that true?

    It may be your question's wrongly posed. Why don't you just play it as you feel it?

  7. #31

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    I don’t think we need to worry about which note falls on which part of the beat in modal jazz.
    Last edited by rintincop; 07-30-2019 at 07:21 PM.

  8. #32
    did you both watch the youtube video or are we nitpicking something I said?

    Adam and Pete give the best explanation on modal playing that I've ever heard.

    Just watch the video...

  9. #33

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    In the video Adam and Peter agree we don’t need to worry about which note falls on which part of the beat... they even comment that we don't need to worry it in bebop either, unless you want to. I thought that was what the OP was talking about, maybe the thread morphed?

    In a word modal improv is (can be) “freedom”. You can do whatever you want, you can compliment the accompaniment, go against it, or do your own thing. As Chick Corea said about improvising: "We play what we know."
    Chick Corea or Herbie Hancock like to play long highly chromatic lines that seemingly have little relationship to the underlying harmony, but end on a “good note” (tonic for example) , that mitigates (resolves) what led up to the "punchline". They will then often times answer that line with a short simple highly melodic phrase or two.

    I also want to point out that the rules of tonal gravity still apply in modal improv. The Tonic is still the Tonic.
    Last edited by rintincop; 07-30-2019 at 10:22 PM.

  10. #34

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    Transcription: Herbie Hancock's solo on Maiden Voyage 1989:


  11. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    In the video Adam and Peter agree we don’t need to worry about which note falls on which part of the beat... they even comment that we don't need to worry it in bebop either, unless you want to. I thought that was what the OP was talking about, maybe the thread morphed?

    In a word modal improv is (can be) “freedom”. You can do whatever you want, you can compliment the accompaniment, go against it, or do your own thing. As Chick Corea said about improvising: "We play what we know."
    Chick Corea or Herbie Hancock like to play long highly chromatic lines that seemingly have little relationship to the underlying harmony, but end on a “good note” (tonic for example) , that mitigates (resolves) what led up to the "punchline". They will then often times answer that line with a short simple highly melodic phrase or two.

    I also want to point out that the rules of tonal gravity still apply in modal improv. The Tonic is still the Tonic.
    No, my OP didn't morph. I'm just used to posting these podcasts where I call in (and embarrass myself) and except for a select few on JGF, no one gives a rats patootie. Or, we go back to the humdrum of scale usage.

    Note that Pete and Adam say that they "never use a whole scale in it's entirety". And yet, most of the information about bebop--and especially modal--is about running scales and scale patterns. Pete and Adam suggest something deeper--I like that. What Adam said over "One Finger Snap" (I love Herbie from that period, btw. Your post on Orbits piqued my curiosity ) opened the box for me. It's about the strength of melody in modal playing--not the changes. Peter almost suggested that strong melodies supersede "outlining the changes" when playing bop--that got me to tilt my head.

    I just wish we'd talk about this kinda stuff more, the stuff that goes beyond the rote scale or the rote progression. I thought you and ragman were trying to close out my thread, because it's happened before (not from either of you, but many of my posts aren't about what is usually talked about here on JGF--for better or worse).

    The best part about Pete and Adam, is that when I call in--they can play what they mean fluently on the piano. Adam is a beast, but Peter... Look up "Peter Martin Piano" for a real wild ride. He's the real deal gives you the feels without a happy meal kinda musician.

    They know me as "Mr. Spaceman" on the podcast because my first call-in question was about the use of space and silence--that was a GREAT episode, by the way. That, and I tend to call in after a long night of staying up changing diapers. I sound tired and "spacey" and they think I'm flying high... Hey, if it gets them to answer my questions like they do--I'll play the fool, whatever.

    Definitely check out their podcast, "You'll Hear It". I've never heard anyone talk about playing music quite like Peter and Adam.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    No, my OP didn't morph. I'm just used to posting these podcasts where I call in (and embarrass myself) and except for a select few on JGF, no one gives a rats patootie. Or, we go back to the humdrum of scale usage.

    Note that Pete and Adam say that they "never use a whole scale in it's entirety". And yet, most of the information about bebop--and especially modal--is about running scales and scale patterns. Pete and Adam suggest something deeper--I like that. What Adam said over "One Finger Snap" (I love Herbie from that period, btw. Your post on Orbits piqued my curiosity ) opened the box for me. It's about the strength of melody in modal playing--not the changes. Peter almost suggested that strong melodies supersede "outlining the changes" when playing bop--that got me to tilt my head.
    Yes. These guys seem to be on the right track :-) Harmony in bop can be heavily blocked and abstracted, in fact simplified from the original songbook harmony, and the melody (which is of course a rhythmic expression) is foregrounded. Furthermore Parker and Powell's melodies are heavily ornamented - something that was lost with the second generation players.

    In this sense it has more in common with Modal jazz. A further aspect of bop is the irregularity of the phrase lengths... In a sense, bop is trying to burst out of the regular repeating structures of the boilerplate swing jam session material its based on.

    I believe I pointed this out above, but of course everyone still seems to think it's about upper structures or some such because of a 'quote' in a 40s issue of Downbeat that wasn't even from Parker....

    Here's a legit quote: "Quiet as it's kept, Parker's innovation was melody" Dizzy Gillespie.

    By the same token, modal techniques can be used on standards. I mean, what have we been hearing for the past 40 years?

    I just wish we'd talk about this kinda stuff more, the stuff that goes beyond the rote scale or the rote progression. I thought you and ragman were trying to close out my thread, because it's happened before (not from either of you, but many of my posts aren't about what is usually talked about here on JGF--for better or worse).

    The best part about Pete and Adam, is that when I call in--they can play what they mean fluently on the piano. Adam is a beast, but Peter... Look up "Peter Martin Piano" for a real wild ride. He's the real deal gives you the feels without a happy meal kinda musician.

    They know me as "Mr. Spaceman" on the podcast because my first call-in question was about the use of space and silence--that was a GREAT episode, by the way. That, and I tend to call in after a long night of staying up changing diapers. I sound tired and "spacey" and they think I'm flying high... Hey, if it gets them to answer my questions like they do--I'll play the fool, whatever.

    Definitely check out their podcast, "You'll Hear It". I've never heard anyone talk about playing music quite like Peter and Adam.
    I must get around to watching this when I done with my assignment.