1. #1

    User Info Menu

    Fluency: See a new chart, lotta fancy chords used atypically (more Wayne Shorter than Cole Porter) high tempo, your solo. Make it sound like jazz.

    Standard counsel applies. Know your chord tones, scales, arps and licks. Be able to identify which one of those devices applies at every point in the tune.

    I've been getting over my head in some situations recently. My practice approach is to pick a comparable tune in IRealPro, set it for 13 repeats and change the key by a 4th each chorus. I make sure that I can pick out the chord tones and underlying scales (which gives me the arps). Maybe a few licks.

    I'm just wondering -- am I missing something? Might there be a better way, or another way?

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    A friend of mine, an excellent NYC jazz guitarist who's been around the block, told me this story when he was young and starting out played a tune like that (I think it was a Wayne Shorter one, or Inner Urge, something like that) on a jam session. It was before iReal pro existed of course, and he didn't know the changes so for his solo he looked into sax player Real Book. After words the band guys told him his solo was one of the best they heard, really cool note choices etc.

    What he later realized it was Bb Real Book. Talkin about how to sound like jazz.

  4. #3

    User Info Menu

    Re: Wayne Shorter tunes.

    I think a lot of people miss out on these tunes because they go all CST on them. When you listen to Wayne play--he uses very few notes. Some of his vocabulary is pentatonic based from what I've heard when people talk about him. The man was a genius, just like Herbie.

    Anyway, what a lot of peeps miss out on is...and here we go with the "I dunno what I'm talking about"... is that all those "random chords" actually create a tonal area that holds the whole tune together. It's not "let's switch scales every second" type playing. It's a tonal center that moves around, kind of like a glorious and brilliant blob. I'm not talking key centers like C major or Dm. I'm talking tonal centers like C augmented, or Dsus7b9, or note collections like C Db and A.

    Wayne could tell these breadth taking stories on his tunes because he knew exactly how they worked--he knew where the "planet" of the tune was and how to orbit "moons" around it. There's a cohesion to Wayne's solos and Herbie's solos that is so much more than CST. It's hearing the big picture.

    I wanna be able to hear the big picture like these giants. Okay, maybe 10% like these giants. Then, I'll die happy

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    A friend of mine, an excellent NYC jazz guitarist who's been around the block, told me this story when he was young and starting out played a tune like that (I think it was a Wayne Shorter one, or Inner Urge, something like that) on a jam session. It was before iReal pro existed of course, and he didn't know the changes so for his solo he looked into sax player Real Book. After words the band guys told him his solo was one of the best they heard, really cool note choices etc.

    What he later realized it was Bb Real Book. Talkin about how to sound like jazz.
    I've had a similar experience. I think the tune was Desafinado. We get to a 4 bar section in the middle and suddenly I sound like an incredible jazz player for the first time.

    Turned out that everybody else was reading from a chart with a fancy reharm and I was playing the original vanilla changes.

    Moral: if you don't sound good, it's them.

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Re: Wayne Shorter tunes.

    I think a lot of people miss out on these tunes because they go all CST on them. When you listen to Wayne play--he uses very few notes. Some of his vocabulary is pentatonic based from what I've heard when people talk about him. The man was a genius, just like Herbie.

    Wayne could tell these breadth taking stories on his tunes because he knew exactly how they worked--he knew where the "planet" of the tune was and how to orbit "moons" around it. There's a cohesion to Wayne's solos and Herbie's solos that is so much more than CST. It's hearing the big picture.
    And the melody is always there, too!
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  7. #6

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar View Post
    Fluency: See a new chart, lotta fancy chords used atypically (more Wayne Shorter than Cole Porter) high tempo, your solo. Make it sound like jazz.

    Standard counsel applies. Know your chord tones, scales, arps and licks. Be able to identify which one of those devices applies at every point in the tune.

    I've been getting over my head in some situations recently. My practice approach is to pick a comparable tune in IRealPro, set it for 13 repeats and change the key by a 4th each chorus. I make sure that I can pick out the chord tones and underlying scales (which gives me the arps). Maybe a few licks.

    I'm just wondering -- am I missing something? Might there be a better way, or another way?
    Sounds good to me...

    I was doing something similar, but without the chart. For Wayne Shorter tunes this turns out to be quite hard to do. I'm not sure if I was getting any better at it TBH.

  8. #7

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Re: Wayne Shorter tunes.

    I think a lot of people miss out on these tunes because they go all CST on them. When you listen to Wayne play--he uses very few notes. Some of his vocabulary is pentatonic based from what I've heard when people talk about him. The man was a genius, just like Herbie.

    Anyway, what a lot of peeps miss out on is...and here we go with the "I dunno what I'm talking about"... is that all those "random chords" actually create a tonal area that holds the whole tune together. It's not "let's switch scales every second" type playing. It's a tonal center that moves around, kind of like a glorious and brilliant blob. I'm not talking key centers like C major or Dm. I'm talking tonal centers like C augmented, or Dsus7b9, or note collections like C Db and A.

    Wayne could tell these breadth taking stories on his tunes because he knew exactly how they worked--he knew where the "planet" of the tune was and how to orbit "moons" around it. There's a cohesion to Wayne's solos and Herbie's solos that is so much more than CST. It's hearing the big picture.

    I wanna be able to hear the big picture like these giants. Okay, maybe 10% like these giants. Then, I'll die happy
    I was going to say look through the chords for common tones and sort of make your own “scale” of notes to draw from and don’t worry about “playing the changes “ just make up melodies that work. But your post was more intelligently put together and articulate, so I’ll say nothing.
    Ignorance is agony.