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  1. #1

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    Steve seems best known here for his chord melody material. Our own Ducthbopper has a nice video compilation of himself playing (over a period of years) 7 Crowell arrangements . Good stuff, well worth checking out. Other threads have discussed Crowell's chord-melody material.

    But for now I am intrested in his single-line material. (Steve studied with Warren Nunes for a long time. They shared a house for a few years. Steve says Warren inspired this material.)

    So I got this book / CD / DVD. Came by mail today.

    84 is not scary: 7 x 12. 7 scale patterns in each of the 12 major keys.

    He's using 3 nps major scale fingerings and integrating arpeggio shapes into the practice of them. I think it will be good for my technique if nothing else. (Though I'm hoping for more than that. Time will tell.)

    Here's an excerpt from a review of the book. (It's on Steve's site and there will be a link below, so you can see the whole thing for yourself there, but I want to highlight a descriptive section so you can get some sense of what he's about in this book. (The bold print was for my own use in the copy I made to print out--there is no bold print in the review as posted on Steve's site.)

    >>>>Thefive CAGED forms sometimes have sometimes two, sometimes three notesper string, which generates complexity for the right hand and for theleft. The 84 EQs alwayshavethree notes per string, which enormously reduces the complexity forboth hands. All you have to decide is “which three notes?” It isnot difficult to intuit the answer.There'smore. Each scale form comes with four exercises in scales andarpeggios. In the scale exercises, the index finger anchors scalemovement, and the third or fourth finger anchors arpeggios(broken chords). The arpeggios move diagonally up and to the rightfrom the fourth finger, while the arpeggio roots jump across fouradjacent strings (6-5-4-3), which generates about half of a diatoniccircle of fifths (I-IV-vii-iii-vi-ii-V-I), a series that is basic tojazz progressions.
    Consistencyisa hallmark of the 84 EQ system: Youalwaysplaythree notes per string, alwaysanchorscales with the index finger, alwaysanchorarpeggios with the ring or pinky finger, and always march thearpeggio roots horizontally across four strings in a chordprogression that is highly likely to occur in real music. Also,the righthand alwaysplaysthe scale notes with alternating down-up strokes, and alwaysinitiatesarpeggios with a downward sweep across three strings. In 7th chords,the pinky alwaysplaysthe 7th of the chord on the same string as the chord 5th.<<<<


    I downloaded a free pdf from Steve's site that goes over what he calls "the harmonic telophone number." (I learned it as "Bach's phone number": 147-3625.)

    Here's a video of that. (Not from the 84 Equations book. But you immediately see how he integrates the arpeggios in sequences within fingering patterns.) This is a lot of notes but it's pretty easy to play because the fingerings are so consistent. (Consistent as the guitar allows...)

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    Here's a short intro to the 84 Equations book.



    Next would come taking these rudiments and making good jazz.

    I worked with 3 nps scales many years ago. (Think it was a Frank Gambale 'speed picking' book that introduced me to them.) But I didn't see the benefit OTHER THAN for "shredding" and that was only my thing for about 15 minutes, so I let it all go.

    What I like about Steve's approach is that it makes it easy to cycle the arpeggios of keys---there's a consistency to the fingering that I find useful now.

    Anyway, this is what I'm going to focus on until I work through this book and the companion one, "Formulas of Jazz Guitar Improvisation." After that, who knows?

    I would like to know if anyone here has worked through this material before, or is working through it now.

    Jazz Science Guitar Institute
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Mark,

    I'm working through the material now. I have the 84 Jazz Equations, Formulas for Jazz Guitar Improvisation and the Jazz Guitar Power Soloing books. I'm currently working through the Formulas book.

    Mike

  4. #3

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    I think the stuff is pretty good--I used it as a starting point and review. The harmonic telephone exercise is something I do a lot (daily) because is arps ascending in 4ths, But I do it starting and using every finger and go through the multiple cycles. I do not only major, but also melodic and harmonic minors. It is a great way to learn your way around through I do triad iterations using the phone number system and start on different fingers as well.

    Adam Rafferty (The finger style guy) wrote a book years ago that resulted in scales falling from my eyes--covers the same material in more depth using Hanon excerises adapted for guitar. Still available as PDF: How to Develop Virtuoso Technique for Jazz Guitar - Adam Rafferty

  5. #4

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    well book collectors..what do you think..we have come along way from basic Mickey Baker book I to a flood of information that can never be digested in one life time (or several) ....

    my main study guides now are information from:
    Ted Greene
    Bobby Stern
    Joe Diorio
    John Scofield
    Howard Roberts
    John McLaughlin
    Jeff Beck
    Eric Johnson
    and of course Jimi

    To fully digest any of this material ( in small amounts) in all keys and positions takes time and determination..and then review..and trying to create some tunes with it to keep it alive..

    while collecting another "book" seems tempting on the surface..I know I will not be able to access all of it and continue with my already full schedule of studies..

    Clint is right.."..A man has got to know his limitations.."
    play well ...
    wolf

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS View Post
    Mark,

    I'm working through the material now. I have the 84 Jazz Equations, Formulas for Jazz Guitar Improvisation and the Jazz Guitar Power Soloing books. I'm currently working through the Formulas book.

    Mike
    Great, Mike! Glad to hear it. I have the first two books you mentioned (offered together at a reduced price as the "Starter Special"). First things first: I have to learned the 3 nps fingerings and really get them down, then the 4 arpeggios that lie within each fingering. (Actually, more than 4 arps lie within the scale fingering but it's a group of four in a cycle sequence that he means.)

    Really enjoy playing the exercises. They will improve my technique and increse my fretboard awareness. So I'm happy but I realize I'm just getting my toe in the water here. ;o)
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolflen View Post
    well book collectors..what do you think..we have come along way from basic Mickey Baker book I to a flood of information that can never be digested in one life time (or several) ....

    Clint is right.."..A man has got to know his limitations.."
    I have an overwhelming amount of material. More than I need. Thing is, you don't know--up front--what you need! It takes making some mistakes, weeding some things out, and also realizing that some book is quite good in its way but you can only fit so much in to your schedule and you have to let some good things slide, at least for the present.

    But I'm doing this now. If nothing else, I'll get the 3 nps fingerings down cold in all keys and know how to cycle arps in all keys through 7 positions. A lot of people here already know all that. I don't. I was having trouble cycling arps in the "five fingerings" (or CAGED) approach. I could do it. But it never flowed to suit me. (Well, 3 fingerings flowed fine; 2, not so much.)

    What I like about THIS apporach is that the fingerings are consistent and my picking seems cleaner even though I haven't changed my picking. Not sure why that is----maybe uncertainty with my left hand caused my right hand to play unevenly to stay--or try to stay--in synch with it. Hmmm.

    Many paths lead up the mountain...
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  8. #7

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    Mark,

    Here's a video from Eddie Lastra who took lessons from Warren Nunes. He did a tutorial on Satin Doll and he applies a lot of Nunes and Crowell's techniques.



    The volume is a little low in the beginning, but gets louder when he starts the tutorial.

    Mike

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS View Post
    Mark,

    Here's a video from Eddie Lastra who took lessons from Warren Nunes. He did a tutorial on Satin Doll and he applies a lot of Nunes and Crowell's techniques.



    The volume is a little low in the beginning, but gets louder when he starts the tutorial.

    Mike
    I miss Eddie! Where did he go off to? He was a mainstay in the early period of the Jimmy Randy/Aebersold study group.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  10. #9

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    Lawson,

    I've read a lot of Eddie's earlier posts on the forum. I always looked forward to his videos.

    Mike

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS View Post
    Lawson,

    I've read a lot of Eddie's earlier posts on the forum. I always looked forward to his videos.

    Mike
    I sent Eddie a message at his YouTube channel but haven't heard back. He is a good player and a good guy. Perhaps he'll find his way back here. Hope so!
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  12. #11

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    I play the seven fingerings in one key each day. (Today was Db. Tomorrow will be Gb.) This requires starting on different patterns. Today, for example, the first available pattern was #3 (starting on F, the 3rd of Db.) Tomorrow, in Gb, pattern 7 will be the lowest available.

    Four arpeggios are lined with each pattern. They come from the sequence I IV vii iii ii vi V.

    Today, in Db, starting on pattern 3, the first arpeggio (low E string) is IV. Next is vii, then iii, then vi.

    It sounds cumbersome to think this way. It is a bit at first but in a short time I'm much better at mentally navigating the patterns when away from the guitar. I like that.

    So I'm sticking with this.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  13. #12

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    All I can say about this thread is:

    I don't think this guy knows what an equation is.

    People are always trying to make jazz guitar sound important and intellectual.

    Learn the songs, play good notes in time, and try not to eat too much lobster on the gig.

    It's not rocket science.

  14. #13

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    Equation:

    F Ionian = Am7, Dm7, Gm7 and C7

    By definition this meets the process of equating one thing with another.

    Not rocket science, but a method for using arpeggios in combination with scales to develop melodic lines.

    My assessment from purchasing the first three books of the course.

    Mike

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS View Post
    Equation:

    F Ionian = Am7, Dm7, Gm7 and C7

    By definition this meets the process of equating one thing with another.

    Not rocket science, but a method for using arpeggios in combination with scales to develop melodic lines.

    My assessment from purchasing the first three books of the course.

    Mike
    It’s not exactly a second order partial differential equation is it? I mean it’s pretty trivial in a mathematical sense... theory is never really difficult, it’s always application.

    One of the many annoying things about the internet is that the tone of wry amusement basically never comes off.

    I don’t really understand (or care) how this particular system works, but it does amuse me how these ‘concepts’ are marketed or described by their originators. That’s it really.

    I’m sure it’s great if you apply it consistently.

    It also says something about jazz guitarists that they are willing to not only tolerate by go for a system with the word ‘equation’ in. I think many find the idea that music can be ‘solved’ like an engineering problem is somehow comforting.

    I say this from a point of view of feeling that myself. I’ve come up with plenty of systems of my own over the years. In the end they are curiosities....

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    It's not rocket science.
    no it’s jazz science!

    Jazz Science Guitar Institute

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I don’t really understand (or care) how this particular system works...
    That's obvious from your posts. One wonders why you've bothered to make them.

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    It’s not exactly a second order partial differential equation is it?
    No, you are absolutely correct. If it were a second order partial differential equation, it would be rocket science.

    Mike

  19. #18

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    No doubt I’m being terribly unfair. Just that i found the title of the thread rather hilarious.

    There’s only eighty four of them.

  20. #19

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    I have a number of Steve Crowell books, good stuff! I started out with his 4 year course linked below but I haven't worked through the whole course yet because I found his Chord Melody books to be more in line with what I was looking for at the time. One of the last books I bought from him was "Formulas for Jazz Guitar Improvisation", great book with a ton of information and it's based on his 84 Equations system. Super informative stuff and I'm really happy to see that others are having as much fun and learning moments as I'm having!

    Self Development in Music - Jazz Science Guitar Institute

  21. #20

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    I've had the "84 Equations" book for a month now.
    I've learned them in all keys. They're not perfect yet, but I don't need to check the book when going over them. Instead, I "finger it out."

    I spend time daily away from the guitar going over these in my heads. Naming the notes in all keys, for all fingerings, is a chore but focusing on one key per day makes it manageable. Today is B (my least favorite key for this purpose). Yesterday was Gb (my second least favorite). Tomorrow is E, and "E" is for easier. ;o)

    My knowledge of the fretboard has increased. And because the fingerings are systematic, my hands know where to go quicker then my mind can name the destination.

    I'm glad I got this book and started working in it.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola