The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I have been playing for a while now and I have learnt a lot about using scales, arpeggios and various different soloing concepts.

    It's only now that I'm really starting to look into 'creative expression' when improvising. Singing along with my playing and trying to play what I hear in my head, trying to be honest with what I actually want to hear and not just trying to sound like someone else is surprisingly difficult.

    What is your single biggest frustration with improvisation on the guitar?

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  3. #2

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    That true inspiration is completely random. I never know ahead if I really "have it" or not.

  4. #3

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    It takes so long to master something -- so much practice -- that, by the time I can do it, I'm tired of it.

  5. #4

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    Not seeing the lay of harmony in a clear symmetrical way as on the piano.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by mascis2000
    I have been playing for a while now and I have learnt a lot about using scales, arpeggios and various different soloing concepts.

    It's only now that I'm really starting to look into 'creative expression' when improvising. Singing along with my playing and trying to play what I hear in my head, trying to be honest with what I actually want to hear and not just trying to sound like someone else is surprisingly difficult.

    What is your single biggest frustration with improvisation on the guitar?
    No offense, but it sounds like perhaps you may have stopped a bit short. You said "scales and arpeggios" and are now looking to sing great lines an find your own voice and all that - but - you didn't say anything about motives, phrases, approach notes, and chord outlines.

    Those last two are fundamental concepts - but are also a lot of work. How much have you invested in them and how easily can you express yourself freely with them?

    If the answer is "not much" and "not very easily at all" then it might be a bit too early to be looking for improvisational magic and individual artistic epiphanies.

    What do you think?

  7. #6

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    I know we've had this argument before, but my biggest frustration with improvising on the guitar is the visual aspect--sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I don't like relying on visual shapes to improvise, so I move around the neck by shifting and use different fingers to feel a phrase. I also improvise on piano, three finger style (because I don't have a pianist's technique). I find melodic content on the piano that I wouldn't realize by just playing a song on the guitar--and I transfer those piano lines back to the guitar. I'm really dedicated to the whole "ear training" thing, and I get frustrated that everything is related to shapes and not sounds in most guitar instruction. Other instruments have their own shapes, but I wish that I had an emphasis on sound from the very beginning.

    When I rely on shapes, I feel like I'm just wiggling my fingers. When I connect with my ear--I have a lot more fun. Then again, everyone has their own way to tame the beast that is jazz guitar.

  8. #7

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    For me improvisation itself is easy, I can noodle around to anything (TV commercials, radio, other songs) but as to do I know am I sitting exactly inside the proper harmonic structure and are actually "playing the changes" - nope. Most of the time still noodling and even though I feel I can create nice single note melodies on top of anything, trying to fit chords to anything more complex is hard, which itself tells me I'm not hearing the stuff correctly outside of simple major/minor/5th structures.

    But, noodling is still fun as it is. Luckily I don't count myself as an actual Jazz guitarist, merely an enthusiast.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
    No offense, but it sounds like perhaps you may have stopped a bit short. You said "scales and arpeggios" and are now looking to sing great lines an find your own voice and all that - but - you didn't say anything about motives, phrases, approach notes, and chord outlines.

    Those last two are fundamental concepts - but are also a lot of work. How much have you invested in them and how easily can you express yourself freely with them?

    If the answer is "not much" and "not very easily at all" then it might be a bit too early to be looking for improvisational magic and individual artistic epiphanies.

    What do you think?
    hm... That's a very good point and sounds logical but I think I disagree.

    My fundamentals are pretty good, but even if they weren't and I was a beginner with little experience in improvisation, I don't think it's a reason not to focus on trying to play the sounds that I like to hear that are going on in my head. I think when I was a beginner this was a focus I had subconsciously but somewhere in learning all those more advanced scales and soloing concepts I lost sight of the end goal.

    The more I focus on singing the lines that I'm hearing in my head when I solo, the less concerned I become about any kind of theoretical description of those sounds or whether or not I'm using a particular musical concept, I simply want to express the emotion in the sounds that I'm hearing. Technique, approach notes, target notes, keys, scales etc is all just happening in the background.

    However when I hear something in my head or sing something that I can't play very well it guides my practise and lets me know that I need to work on that particular concept, for example it's made me realise how much I like to hear long and fast chromatic lines to create tension, which to play fluently I find difficult so that's something I'm going to focus on in my practise time for the next few weeks and improve fluency in. Although it doesn't stop me from giving it a go when I hear those chromatic lines, I just have to use cruder methods and think creatively to get around my limitations but I'm only interested in the result, I don't really care how I get there.

    Or am I going mad? Not sure...The main challenge I find is making sure I don't drift off and just start rambling on with licks and unfocused random melodies, it's like I go into autopilot, it can be quite tiring.

  10. #9

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    Yes I understand. Short posts don't always serve us well in fully conveying a message/idea.

    So, to your point - I agree that ear training and singing lines can be very helpful from the beginning of the improvisational skill building journey until the end goal is reached (as much as it ever is).

    But listening, singing, and imagining alone aren't nearly enough for 99.99% of the population.

    Understanding, visualizing, and physically mastering the jazz language as laid down by the masters informs what we are capable of imagining and playing. For example, mastering 10-15 chord outlines each for typical "harmonic formulae" (i.e. blues, II-Vs in major and minor, rhythm changes, dominant cycles, Coltrane changes) in all keys around the circle of fifths, with 2-3 fingerings each and playing each non-stop without looking at the fret board very much - should build a very strong foundation to spring from. Trying to master those formulae from (almost) pure inspiration is a very tall order indeed, and to be honest is probably a impossible task for most.

    That said, I also understand how this can breed mental fog and fatique, especially if taken in too quickly for adequate digestion. :0
    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 04-30-2019 at 11:45 PM.

  11. #10

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    If we're talking about the jazz masters who translated the language of swing, bebop, and beyond

    they all said, almost in unison, we learned the language by ear.

    The shapes help execute the language, and certain fingerings will lend themselves better to the line that you want to express.

    But the key difference in how jazz is learned in most circles these days is that it is purely theoretical and visual. That's not just my opinion, that's what most of the masters lament about how most of us learn the guitar.

    I learned through visuals and theory until 11 years ago. After that, I used my ear to relearn my theory (because it was now connected to sound) and I used shapes to execute certain articulations. I still use the Contextual Ear Training method that Charlie Banacos started (and I learned through Bruce Arnold), and I'll continue to study if for the rest of my life.

    There's nothing wrong with shapes and theory. There is something tremendously wrong with shapes and theory with the absence of the ear--especially if you want to improvise. That's why I wish that ear training, as a life long process (and not just rote interval training), is stressed from the first day of jazz instruction.

    If you take the time to really work on your ear, through transcribing or contextual ear training or whatever works for you, you will have a lot more fun playing any music that makes your heart sing.

  12. #11

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    What frustrates me most is when I can have a great melodic idea to use in a solo when I’m miles away from my guitar. But when I get home and pick it up? Nothing... nada... zilch.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by dallasblues
    What frustrates me most is when I can have a great melodic idea to use in a solo when I’m miles away from my guitar. But when I get home and pick it up? Nothing... nada... zilch.
    Yes that happens to me. But if you develop your ear enough, it is possible to at least figure out the relative pitches of the notes in your head and scribble them down on a bit of paper, I have done that sometimes. One benefit of transcribing is that it trains your ear to be able to do things like this.

  14. #13

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    I can hear shit I can't play, I can play shit I can't hear.

    Not sure which is more frustrating.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    If we're talking about the jazz masters who translated the language of swing, bebop, and beyond

    they all said, almost in unison, we learned the language by ear.
    Well, they also said that they learned all their heroes' solos note for note, and others have spoken about their practice routines (I seem to recall Satchmo using that term).

    I think it's not one thing, not so much this vs. that, not either/or, but rather, all or almost all of it.
    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 04-30-2019 at 10:06 PM.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I can hear shit I can't play, I can play shit I can't hear.

    Not sure which is more frustrating.
    Well, between shitting and playing, probably playing :-)

  17. #16

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    If you can hear something that you can't play (yet), be grateful.

    When you no longer can, you're done.

  18. #17

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    The flipping articulation.

  19. #18
    I Studied for years with Barry Galbraith and published his Jazz Guitar Study Series. I should be the world's greatest jazz guitar player by this time, however I am the world's slowest learner!
    Here is a way to have a breakthrough on your improvising:
    There is an old joke: "Do you read music?"Ans: "Not enough to interfere with my playing."Lotta truth there! Improvising comes from the ears, not the eyes. I have been told by a number of great jazz players that you should keep in mind the melody of the song you are improvising on. Heres how to do it:
    The Great American Songbook (the standards written in the thirties and forties by Porter, Berlin, Gershwin, Carmichael, etc.) contain the most beautiful melodies the world has ever produced. This is why they are the training ground for jazz. Get CDs (or downloads) of these song performed by the great jazz singers: Ella Fitzgerald, Tony Bennett, Peggy Lee, Rosemary Clooney, Etc... and play along with them. Choose the songs that you are most familiar with. When you are doing this, you will have the melody right there at all times and those beautiful melodic concepts will inspire you own ideas! As you try to grab and execute these ideas on the neck, your fingers will learn where they are. . . muscle memory! The more you do this, the better you get. No thinking, no looking at lead sheets, just listening to the great melodies and to your own ideas and grabbing them. I guarantee a breakthrough.
    It helps to figure out the key of a song, and sometimes the changes (especially if they are difficult), before you start but don't look at anything while you are improvising. Just listen and improvise!

    Allen Johnson Jr.

    PS. This is really fun!!!!!

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I can hear shit I can't play, I can play shit I can't hear.

    Not sure which is more frustrating.
    ha ha .... true that !
    good man

  21. #20
    Wordiness obfuscates wisdom.

    love your response!

    Allen

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allenacreejr
    It helps to figure out the key of a song... before you start
    You definitely have a point there

  23. #22
    Yeah, nobody would've believed me, if you hadn't backed me up! :-)>

  24. #23

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    Allenacreejr,

    I think we had a thread on Barry Galbraith a while back, I just can't find it. Can you create a new thread and share your experiences working with Barry to publish all of his books. Did you work on his Study Series or his Chord Melody books?

    Galbraith's books taught me how to comp, and I still go back to them. I used to pour over the intro's to his Chord Melody books and imagine that I was studying with him.

    His work with Hank Jones, Hal McKusik, and his own album were all masterclasses in how to play in a group. His improvisations, when he took them, were also masterclasses in melodic development and composition ala spur of the moment.

    Please share, I'm waiting in anticipation.

  25. #24
    Howdy,
    You are right about Barry. He was the best, a great guy, too. I produced the Study Series. After Barry died, I realized that I couldn't do an adequate job distributing The series, so I sold it to Jamey Aebersold. My friend Jim Lichens did the chord solo books. (I did some fingerings editing on those.) One of those books has an article in it that I wrote titled My Friend Barry. If you email me, I will send you a copy of the article. My address is allenacreejr@gmail.com.

    When I was studying with Barry, we were both living in Vermont (me Middlebury, Barry Manchester).I would drive down for a 2-3 hour lesson and go home and work for a couple of months on what he had given me, then go back for more! I liked and admired him so much.

    Warm regards,

    Allen

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by mascis2000
    What is your single biggest frustration with improvisation on the guitar?
    Playing bad notes and bad chords