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  1. #51

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    Not sure if I quite understand what the ilu patterns are - seems very intricate!

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    I had a washing machine that used to play these rhythms.


  4. #53
    cunamara , ketu candomble absulutly rocks. for sure the dna is all up in rock . micky hart is flushing it out even more ,but, all over rock is ketu codes. rock comes from blues and its all up in there.

    rintincop, its definitly BATA, not cuban bata. BATA is alternating hands in 6, you can fit it over any decent ballad , check 8:15, with the flamingos, that is bata and if you only play the right hand on it, its exactly what barry harris is talking about

    christian , please ask me or tell me what is confusing to you, id love to break it down to you

    yes, cosmic gumbo , that is the famous "BOOGALOOZAK" beat , from the amazon interior , they use odd times

  5. #54
    bell : x.xx.xx./x.xx.xx./x.xx.xx./

    pi and le r l rlr l rlr l /r l rlr l rlr l /
    x. xx . xx ./

  6. #55
    pi and le r l rlr l rlr l /r l rlr l rlr l /
    x. xx . xx ./
    /. l .l. l .l. l/ ( the dots dont mean dotted quarters , just takin gout the "r"

    the opisite hand ( left hand for me) is the cadence that is the base for frevo , bossa nova, olodum , and the tiger rag figure in jazz

    nobody could speak to that firgure in bossa nova before, the real origins, but there it is. and there it is in louis armstrong and you could play the bass drum like that in a funk beat .

    it took me a lot of working with ilu to get this. i played right handed , left handed , slow it down, its a fast rhythm, and it just started to pop out at me.

    that little " r l rlr..) if you go " r rlr.." its the beginning of a rumba. the whole thing is almost like the first part of a 3/2 cascara.
    if you play the "rlr" seperated as its in the figure, its a kind of 3 against 2 patern , which is the whole ancient african concept the 3 against 2 pollyrhythm

    once you can get it going, play one hand on one surface and the other hand on another, and you will see it



  7. #56
    there is an extrodinary thing i discovered at :

    0:17-0:57-1:10 the part that im reffering to the last chapter "Opanije" using James P Johnson as a referance of opanije and at 0:57 , they go into a hard walking bass swing that for me is Bravum.

    if you are like i was before i became aware of these hook ups , and on a gig , whether a restaraunt , wedding, any standards gig, where you start two beat half time when you play the head and at a bridge or solo goes into walking bass splang a lang on the cymbal.

    i used to not love that two beat part, figure im suposed to be floaty , not defined , i just couldnt wait for the walking bass part.

    its amazing doing this youtube because i really am learning as i go and im barely scratching the surface and things just keep opening up in a powerful way to help me think like i havnt thought before.

    so i realised , this whole two beat thing is the tip of the hat to the old style of jazz , mainly louis armstrong , and louis was doing a whole lot of opanije sounding cadences . i knew it was an older style but i didnt hook it up with the whole louis armstrong hot fives aproach, which was the ground breaking record in jazz every one went for.

    and , i dont know when this james p johnson example was recorded, but, these are the earliar cats , and that has to be as solid an example of going from a popular style before into a hard swinging walk. i am so envious of that walk , its so simple and pure and swings so darn hard.

    the half time two beat that you play on the head that goes into swing , is an opanije type cadence going into a bravum like cadence. it should imply if not stated " oom pa oom pa oom rest boom ba boom " , and then go into the walk on the solo or bridge.

    ill never look on it the same again.....all those years not knowing this ......duh

  8. #57

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    Tuba

  9. #58

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    Paul Chambers would have been a great tuba player.

  10. #59
    Haha

    christian , yeah, it was right in front of my face all the time, the cadence that goes with early jazz, the groove they were feeling.

    it was in the bass drum,too, and that is what that whole two beat half time thing we play on standards relates to.

    even the most ethereal bill Evans rendition is tipping its hat to this past.

    ok, I know I shouldn't play it blatantly , but just knowing this now , from connecting it with opanije , I have a much better sence of how to approach it and play around with it...

    you got got to love this about jazz, you never stop learning something new to be able to swing harder

  11. #60
    ...and that James p Johnson example with Wardell Grey is probably one of the earlier examples of how that cadence like Opanije , would then go into walking bass.

    very hard hitting and defined, the one groove into another. And then how that comes down later to that bill Evans loose halftime in the head into walking bass into the solo

  12. #61

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    great stuff. keep it coming.



  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by bonsritmos
    Haha

    christian , yeah, it was right in front of my face all the time, the cadence that goes with early jazz, the groove they were feeling.

    it was in the bass drum,too, and that is what that whole two beat half time thing we play on standards relates to.

    even the most ethereal bill Evans rendition is tipping its hat to this past.

    ok, I know I shouldn't play it blatantly , but just knowing this now , from connecting it with opanije , I have a much better sence of how to approach it and play around with it...

    you got got to love this about jazz, you never stop learning something new to be able to swing harder
    two half notes and a Charleston...

  14. #63
    ha christian

    yeah, charlston is ilu , two half notes and an ilu , with that baboom at the end, and the beginning of the second half has that two 16 notes at the beginning of the phrase "baba" so its "baba.ba.baba"

    notice how the soloist lots of times implies the two half notes , leaves a space and ony hits the ".baba" at the end , but just that is enough to imply the "baba.ba.baba".

    for sure in a "splang a lang" swing, we dont expect the soloist to play every note "splang a lang" , they use it as a pivot , and actualy use the bell part of Bravum as the solo pivot point, that "jingle bell" figure that is in the head of "now's the time".

    christion one thing i forgot to mention to you about the Ilu figure in the left hand , the right hand is playing the exact bell part : / x.xx.xx / , so if you are trying to figure out what i meant about the left hand :
    pi and le r l rlr l rlr l /r l rlr l rlr l /
    x. xx . xx ./
    /. l .l. l .l. l/ ( the dots dont mean dotted quarters , just taking out the "r")

    what i forgot to mention is the right hand or strong hand is playing the exact bell pattern x.xx.xx

    so the r l rlr l rlr l the right hand should be playing the bell part
    x .xx . xx

    get it to flow and then play it on two surfaces and watch the left hand , or opisite hand

    just in case there was any confusion on your part

    please dont hesitate to clarify if things arnt getting across, ill do the best i can to break it down to you, your interest is genuine and with great curiosity , id do all i can for you to get it, and you already show you do, and you were into thinking about things like this before i ever came on this forum

  15. #64



    Here is chapter 3 in my series on Ketu Candomble codes in jazz evolution .

    How do you teach how to swing? How do you learn it ? Where does it come from?

    Let me say first, this is a jazz guitar forum , if you are playing jazz, you are already playing these concepts . This is not something so out of the norm of our regular comfort zone , it is the roots of our comfort zone and has a lot of the secrets in it , why its our comfort zone. Its something that all of us who are playing jazz, are using already, let alone blues, rock and roll, hip hop, funk , rhythm and blues, etc.

    I beleive it doesnt matter at all to what degree you care to absorb what these Jaztec youtubes are saying. On even the most basic leval, you can watch it and at least know there is a hook up, just like when my father played me some Bartok, i recognised right away he was using pentatonic and fourth chords that i loved hearing in Mccoy Tyner . It broadened my horizons to realise that , and noting Ketu Condomble code hook ups in jazz evolution , can do the same.

    It would take hours to cover all the great swing players using Bravum , on my original youtube i had Miles and So What, and Ellington. But, I used some of the best. I didnt do the Blues and Rock justice, and that is a whole youtube in itself .

  16. #65
    Christian, in case you see this, i know you have sharp ears and will proabably hear in the James P Johnson example of the last chapters , that , while i am showing what he does sometimes , using my left hand Ilu cadence, but, he sometimes is doing an Opanije cadence.

    It speaks to the thing i say that in America , its coming out mish mash , it can be Bravum in the bottom , and they are phrasing implying Armstrong Opanije like cadence.

    Or, like im discovered in stride, while i did this, that , while keeping an oompaoompa in the left hand, which became the comp on the one in later swing, his right hand is throwing out these rapid cadences , improvising , sometimes throwing that opanije pattern, sometimes the opisite hand pi le pattern.

    which in an improvisation thread , is interesting information to digest

  17. #66

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  18. #67

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    Ah of course, New Jack Swing

  19. #68
    yes , christian , that that cut by micheal is in Bravum style.

    ill tell you , im barely scratching the surface, i had to leave so much out, i could go a long time putting up jazz and funk and pop that has Bravum in it. that first youtube had miles davis kind of blue . i could have put in duke ellington, fats waller, red garland so many people i could have showed their Bravum influence . let alone blues and rock. but , it would cost a lot more

    jazzereh , haha well i dont know if you are cracking on my spelling, but, if you are, im investing in this and im not trying to sell it and make money on it. im giving it away. so , im not worrying about being perfect, it would cost too much money to spend more time in the studio , paying an editor to go over my spelling and other errors. ive got about 3 more chapters, all will be an inbestment, so, there are some rough edits, spelling errors, and i just couldnt complete all i wanted to. and , my mind sees things and has ideas what to do , but, getting the studio and editor to get it is another story and it means longer hours and more money.

    for anyone interested in the music at the end of the Jaztec youtubes , its from this cd , also open to the public at no cost :


  20. #69

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    Yea... I like it Andrew.... The code or clave of all...
    I worked with Alan Dawson back in the 70's on percussion, and he got into basic reference beats the clave and variations. But was more into technique.

    I'll keep paying attention, thanks. You know Bobby Sanabria, while I was at berklee, he got there in ? 75... anyway part of my scholarship was working in the ensemble office... I transcribed some of the latin books... I did the Machito Big band Book.... using a reel to reel. Was cool to watch working musicians stopping by and picking up young players who could cover. Anyway got some help from Copeland... and Alan with Drum parts. (I needed it).

    Thanks...

  21. #70
    you got good ears , christian

  22. #71
    reg, for sure dawson and bobby sanabria are great drummers, never met them but know who they are, that sounds like great work and im very interested what you are up to. machito transcriptions must have been great insights

    i did so me things in los angeles too, i bet we know some people in common .i went out called by the minnie ripperton tour,by odell brown of the organisers who later was musical director for marvin gaye. and co wrote sexual healing...we had a confrontation so that ended that gig...hahaha rocky djoneu the conga player for boogie on reggae woman was on that. one of my colleagues we released two records, david e tillman, brought in bradly bobo on bass for the records and justo almario .i also did some small things with larry klein who was a prodigy on accoustic bass at 19 back then. just to let you know some of the los angeles cats i hooked up with in case you know them

  23. #72


    Do any of you all recognise the guitar blues lick you might hear B.B.King do that has a cadence like "ta ta diggity / ta ta diggity" and they go down the scales. ive heard piano players do it also.

    its straigh out of "Jinka"

    This chapter is about Jinka and Sato, how Jinka has the same bell as Bravum and the same Pi and Le of Sato, that with the extra beat on the bell, becomes 3/4 Sato .

    These are powerful insights on how these beats are very intertwined and if you make a change , like and extra beat , slow it up, speed it up, look at the opisite hand , and it becomes a new feeling, new style, new dance.

    And, its all in the history of jazz and other American musics that share similar origins with Afro Brazilian cultures.

  24. #73


    After all the chapters Ive done up to now, its overwelming evidence that Ketu Candomble beats have huge parallel relationships to the developement of jazz and other American musics .

    It doesnt matter what leval you are on, advanced, develaping, profesional , amateur, just a music listener, you can gain great insight into the nature and fundimentals of these musics by checking these hookups out.

    There is nothing out here now that can give you these insights that I am talking about here, this just hasnt been addressed before at this depth and proof of hook ups. And, its just scratching the surface. Just the process of making these youtubes , insights kept piling in , and i will never listen to jazz the same way again.