The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 56789 LastLast
Posts 151 to 175 of 214
  1. #151

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by cophinos
    Thank you all for your help.

    They require a jazz standard and a blues. I have decided to prepare All the things you are as a standard, while for the blues I still don't know. If anyone could give some advice about it, I would ve very grateful!

    So: after thinking about what all of you have written, I came up with a six-hour practice routine:

    1 hour: Repertoire (starting with All the things you are and the blues; the long-term goal is to learn fifty tunes)
    1 hour: Technique (Scales*, chords**, arpeggios*** and drill exercises; fifteen minutes for each one)
    1 hour: Transcription (Starting with Hank Mobley and Paul Desmond)
    1 hour: Methods (Jody Fisher - Beginning Jazz Guitar; Bert Ligon - Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony; Mark Levine - Jazz Theory)
    30 minutes: Improvisation (Using IRealPro)
    30 minutes: Solfège (Required in italian conservatories)
    30 minutes: Sight reading (William Leavitt - Reading Studies for Guitar)
    30 minutes: Ear training (Perfect ear?)

    * Umberto Fiorentino - Scale!
    ** Rick Peckham - Berklee Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
    *** Mimi Fox - Guitar Arpeggio Studies on Jazz Standards

    I hope I covered everything you said. What do you think?
    It looks great. I'd offer some ideas ...

    IRealPro and repertoire can be the same thing. Here's one way: Pick a tune. Start with a tempo that's easy. Set IRealPro for 13 repeats changing the key by a 4th each chorus. First time through, play the melody in 12 keys. You repeat the starting key. Then, start all over and comp through every key.

    Now, transcription and repertoire also overlap. All the Things You Are is a great tune. Hank Mobley has a nice youtube video on it which is at a moderate tempo. And, youtube allows you to slow it down, just click on the gear icon. Or, strip the audio and put it into Transcribe or the Amazing Slow Downer.

    So, now you know the melody and the chords and can handle them in any key. You also know a Hank Mobley solo.

    Time to think about Levine's book (and Mimi's). The idea now is to figure out the scale and arp that apply to each chord. And, you may have an idea, from listening to a lot of jazz, what a jazz solo can sound like. Mark up a chart with your scale choices and go through 13 choruses with IRealPro. If you get stuck on a chord, slow the tempo of IRealPro down and try it again. Do it in multiple parts of the neck.

    Different players recommend different ways to do this. Some go with melodic cells. Others make a point of playing the same interval for each chord, like one chorus of 3rds, another of 5ths etc.

    I like the idea of playing a melodic idea out of a scale and, when it's time to change to the next scale, start with the note in the new scale that's closest to the last one you played in the old scale. That makes a really smooth transition.

    Mimi's book has some ideas on how to use an arp for one chord against a different chord -- which is a fundamental element of jazz.

    Then, if you have saved any time by putting transcription, repertoire and IrealPro together, I'd suggest playing with the best group of jazz players you can, and as often as possible. You might need to organize this yourself. My main tip is to make sure that the bassist and drummer like playing with each other.

    Record everything you play in a group setting and critique it. The first thing to focus on is time-feel. Even the simplest ideas can sound good if they're played with a good feel. But, no matter how great an idea might be potentially, it will not sound good if the time is bad.

    A thought about blues: for the audition, write your own. If you have to use somebody else's try Nana by Moacir Santos. Use a 12 bar blues for the solos.

    For learning scales and arps, apparently most people do this based on geometric patterns. An alternative is learning the fingerboard and learning the notes in the scales and arps you use, by name - and then finding them as you need them, without memorizing the dots on a grid diagrams. In the long run, both approaches have value and will eventually converge.

    If a year of doing this doesn't get you through the audition, well, it must be a tough room.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #152

    User Info Menu

    If you are concerned mostly about the audition, I recommend you give that the most attention.

    Some of us went through a study group of the book Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing by Joe Elliot and had good results. I've been at this for a long time, 40+ years; I have a lot of books on the topic, this was the most beneficial book I have gone through. And, it's completely on point of what you need for the audition.

    Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing - Thread Index

  4. #153

    User Info Menu

    Given that you only have one year, or even less, and specifically for Improv study, I wouldn't worry too much about all that building block stuff of guide tones and arpeggios etc. even though I recommended one book from Joseph Alexander that does a little bit of that.

    Why?

    Because if you are already practicing your basic arpeggios as I mentioned, Connecting Chords With Linear Harmony will take care of all of that with the "outlines". That book condenses repeatable, time tested, widely used and "embellishable" patterns extracted from a very broad variety of master jazz soloists (and a few classical masters like Bach for that matter) so that you don't have to do years of research to get to the same place. In that regard it is extremely efficient and effective. There are many jazz pattern books out there but they are based on the various author's individual ideas/preferences in most cases. ("learn how to play author XYZ's II-V-Is", in other words). It's not about playing just chord tones and arpeggios anyway. Those are the starting points from which you have to embellish. Ligon's book starts you out doing that from the get go. That can save you a lot of time.

    And remember, after you get some of these outlines into your DNA, force yourself to improvise frequently. Write or simply memorize your own solos. What are your best ideas? How can you get to the point where you don't have to generate those ideas by trial and error (composing). The answer is by having so much jazz vocabulary in your DNA (mind and hands) that you think in jazz, you breath in jazz. Drill the vocab to the point you can play it with your eyes closed, chewing gum and standing on your head, if you know what I mean. To the point it's reflexive, impulsive. Unless your a genius, it's the only way.

    And transcribing? At most do two solos, maybe 48 bars max in one year. There will be time for that later, for now you need to play. You might be better off transcribing one short solo, while playing a solo or two from existing transcriptions.

    One year is not very much time at all.
    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 10-18-2018 at 10:36 PM.

  5. #154

    User Info Menu

    Just yesterday an old friend who had been playing mandolin in bluegrass bands mentioned that he decided to learn jazz guitar.

    He signed up for lessons with a locally well known guitarist, but complained that the lessons seemed random, as if the teacher wasn't planning ahead and didn't really have a structured way of teaching.

    I imagine that there have been multiple threads on this ... is there a consensus about how to teach jazz guitar to someone who can already finger a fretted instrument?

    My own path to it is not all that helpful, because I never really was exposed to a structured program except as a beginner.

    I imagine that Berklee has a pretty good idea of how to do it, with ear training, theory and specific performance skills.

    I've had some teachers who started with techniques -- so, for example, I had to learn scales and arps. I can't say that I got a lot of detail on how to apply them though.

    I had other teachers who started with tunes. One began with Don't Blame Me. He taught me a nice chord melody. He wrote out all the chords on a grid, circled the root, and told me to learn all 12 keys. That was how I learned all but the basic chords. He never taught soloing, but I imagine that his approach would have been to point out that the tune started on a Cmaj7 and show me how to play over it, with scale(s), arps, pentatonics or whatever. Then, a couple of beats later, show me how to play over the next chord. And tell me to work out the same concepts in all keys.

    I think I'd probably have learned more efficiently with the second approach, but that doesn't make it best for others.

    I have never had a teacher assign a transcription task, although I think it would have been a good idea. Same for ear training.

    Thoughts?

  6. #155

    User Info Menu

    Yes of course it's relatively simple, you just have to separate some of those things. Ear training and theory are required - but are NOT instrumental studies. Before we focus on instrumental studies look at how the undergrad music topics are/were traditionally organized:


    1. Theory, harmony, ear training, sight singing
    2. keyboard proficiency
    3. compositional form
    4. counterpoint
    5. composition
    6. history
    7. acoustics
    8. music literature
    9. ensemble


    In a Jazz Studies program Arranging classes may substitute for Form and Music Literature, and Jazz History may be thrown in. Also, in more recent times technology has moved into even traditional studies: MIDI and recording techniques or example.
    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 10-20-2018 at 03:44 PM.

  7. #156

    User Info Menu

    So for instrumental studies it can break down like so:

    Technique
    Etudes and studies
    Repertoire
    Reading
    Transcription
    (ensemble - we covered that above)

    Throw in 3-5 levels of Improvisation plus 2-3 levels of Arranging and you have a Jazz studies program. Ta da!

    AND - Everything is leveled. Upper and lower division or Frosh through Senior. Just like it should be/is when you're in elementary, junior high and high school as you prepare for being a music major or professional. Every level is more challenging/advanced than the previous.

    And this extends into grad school for performance majors.


    Yeah, Berklee has it down, but doesn't do much post grad although they are starting to change that. So does UNT, which is a more traditional Jazz Studies program. Check out their course material on their website from Freshman through grad school for jazz studies performance majors.

  8. #157

    User Info Menu

    Do you know what Improvisation is ? Then take the next step, jazz improvisation.

    Your list and many of the posts have some good ideas for working on technique.... you need guitar technique and then jazz technique.

    It's not memorize and perform.

    You also need to know how to improvise when comping. Jazz guitarist spend most of their time... not soloing.

    Spend more time on rhythmic studies... good rhythmic skills and GOOD TIME ... will get you further than any melodic and harmonic skills.

    Improvisation has technical skills and performance skills.... they're different.

    coming from a classical background...

    40% rhythmic studies
    40% harmonic skills
    10% tunes (FORMS of tunes)
    10% melodic improv... or less

  9. #158

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Just yesterday an old friend who had been playing mandolin in bluegrass bands mentioned that he decided to learn jazz guitar.

    He signed up for lessons with a locally well known guitarist, but complained that the lessons seemed random, as if the teacher wasn't planning ahead and didn't really have a structured way of teaching.

    I imagine that there have been multiple threads on this ... is there a consensus about how to teach jazz guitar to someone who can already finger a fretted instrument?
    There seems to be some consistency, if not consensus. Imitate-Assimilate-Innovate is fairly universal although not everyone calls it that by a long shot. But when you stand back and look at what they're teaching...

    Yes it's difficult to teach because the music is not composed for the most part. Can you imagine how difficult other styles like classical would be to teach, if the teacher were required to compose it all himself? It's relatively easy to teach written music, as opposed to jazz - if you want real results for your jazz students that is.

    Another problem - the music isn't really leveled. The best solos were played by masters who were creating art without consideration as to how some student might approach it. There are some jazz etudes out there now which helps but...

    I have found jazz instructors to be all over the map, while jazz instruction materials have been more consistent. Kind of interesting.

  10. #159

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
    There seems to be some consistency, if not consensus. Imitate-Assimilate-Innovate is fairly universal although not everyone calls it that by a long shot. But when you stand back and look at what they're teaching...

    Yes it's difficult to teach because the music is not composed for the most part. Can you imagine how difficult other styles like classical would be to teach, if the teacher were required to compose it all himself? It's relatively easy to teach written music, as opposed to jazz - if you want real results for your jazz students that is.

    Another problem - the music isn't really leveled. The best solos were crated by masters who were creating art without consideration as to how some student might approach it. There are some jazz etudes out there now which helps but...

    I have found jazz instructors to be all over the map, while jazz instruction materials have been more consistent. Kind of interesting.
    Perhaps another point is that it has changed. When I was of college age around 1966, I didn't know of a single college jazz program. Maybe some existed, but I don't recall ever reading about one in the college guides I consulted in those pre-Internet years.

    So, at that point, the old system was still in place. You learned from records and from the instructional books of the time -- like Mel Bay and maybe Mickey Baker. After you knew some tunes, you could get in a band.

    Every time you didn't know a tune, you went home and figured it out from a record, sheet music or fake book. That wasn't so easy back then. Records cost about three times the hourly minimum wage and most people didn't have a great many. Sheet music wasn't cheap either. There was one fake book that I recall -- which is the one made from index cards, three to a page. That was helpful, at least if the tune you wanted was in there.

    Then, on the bandstand you either picked up on what other people were doing, or not.

    I grew up in NYC, so there were jazz teachers around. The one that the better guitarists in my area went to, some of them anyway, was Sal Salvador. I don't know how he approached teaching it.

    Carl Barry taught me something about Chuck Wayne's system -- which I think Chuck had written up, but I didn't know how to get a copy of Chuck's article. My local library did not have back issues of Downbeat, or anything else in which the article might have been published.

    Mostly it was listen, figure stuff out on your own, and sink or swim.

    Now, it's different. You can find almost anything you can think of on youtube and slow it down. There are a zillion methods -- and plenty of choices for a structured approach to learning. You can find just about anything written out for you. Colleges have codified how to learn and how to assess progress.

    This makes playing jazz guitar more accessible than ever. What has happened, I think, is that some less talented players can assemble the skills to play decent jazz guitar. At same time, it has accelerated the inevitable progress of the truly talented, with the result that there are some truly awesome, well educated, players making very sophisticated music.

  11. #160

    User Info Menu

    For learning to improvise, I recommend looking into Jimmy Bruno’s online school. If you do what he says, he will start getting you to connect your playing to your ears.

    There are other online alternatives available as well. I have done Bruno’s school for about a year and a half (and he was gone for about six months of that time, but is back and better than before). The change in my playing is remarkable.

    Also, if you have six hours a day to practice, I suggest you spend at least half of that seriously listening to stuff. Either just listening, or listening and learning to sing the lines you like.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  12. #161

    User Info Menu

    Right now I'm going through the Mickey Baker jazz book and I finding the chord ideas very helpful. The thing I have been trying to do is getting better at soloing. What are somethings I should do to get better. I have Charlie Parker Omnibook and learned 2 heads and some of the solo in one. But how do I transfer that to my own playing? I was told to look and analyze my favorite lick and transpose to different keys.
    Another idea I thought of was writing solos based on chord progressions for my favorite standards. For example I love how High the Moon, so with that I was thinking of just writing lines for those changes, would that be a good approach?
    All in all im looking for any tips that would help me getting better at soloing over jazz changes!

  13. #162

    User Info Menu

    You've started two threads on the same subject.

    All in all I'm looking for any tips that would help me getting better at soloing over jazz changes!
    That's what everybody wants, my friend :-)

    Listen to what jazz players do. But what you hear there is the result of years and years of dedicated practice, study and playing + talent.

    So start at the beginning and get into it. No other way.

  14. #163

    User Info Menu

    Here are a couple of ideas from someone who also struggles with progressing with improvisation. When I was in high school 50+ years ago (sheesh), my first guitar teacher was a jazz man. He tried to teach me to improvise. I wasn't anywhere near ready for that at that young age but the technique he used has value. Pick a song with an easy chord structure and a melody you can't get out of your head. How about "John Brown's Body"? Find or create a backing track with either a cheap looper pedal or Guitar Pro or whatever. Find a You Tube or CD example of a jazz version of the song (Oscar Peterson for JBB for example). Play the CD until it wears out. Take a section and find the notes. Write them down. Simplify it first just hitting a few tones in each chord. Find the groove. You can do that with really only a few notes either side of or in between the melody. Keep time after you can do that. Use the ideas in your instruction book (finding guide tones, chromatics, thirds etc) and just PLAY. It will sound really bad at first. Refine it using ideas from the CD. You don't have to find a guitar CD. Piano, sax, flute, violin, any instrument that plays an improvised melody line. Be patient.

    Another idea is to purchase a few Bob Conti video's. Bob's marketing pitch is to forget about scales and modes and just play. He walks through some notated improv selections and will help get you comfortable with the concept.

    There is no "best" way to do this. There is no advice that will cause a miracle to happen and you will become proficient over night. Keep plugging until you find something that works for you.

    Cincy

  15. #164

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Cincy2
    Another idea is to purchase a few Bob Conti video's. Bob's marketing pitch is to forget about scales and modes and just play. He walks through some notated improv selections and will help get you comfortable with the concept.Cincy
    That's an excellent suggestion!

    The name of the Robert Conti DVD series is "The Ticket To Improv" and if anything is going to get you to be able to start improvising solos over famous jazz standards that series will.

  16. #165

    User Info Menu

    The iconic figures of jazz, the canon of the artform, the language and attitude of soloing came to be from one place: the experience of playing with others in real time. The community of the big band still stands as unique in the musics of the world; the collective knowledge and experience of individuals shared with the individual through sharing. This is the important glue that holds together any other supplemental materials you can get through extrinsic sources (books, institutions, etc).
    There is an ephemeral process of self discovery that is the essence of the art of soloing. It's a real time process.
    Find others. Find a partner. Find a singer you can hold down the form for. Find a playing partner you can learn to listen to. Find a teacher and then ask him/her for the names of others who want to play.
    People can tell you all sorts of ways to solo, but you will never do it until you play with another, fail, assess your resources, play again, experience the discovery of what works and improve.

    Use the forum and see if there are others in your area who want to play.
    David

  17. #166

    User Info Menu

    As important as the chord changes are, don't overlook the value of the melody of the tune as a source of improvisation ideas. After all it will automatically contain a lot of useful information e.g. chord tones, rhythmic interest etc.

    Google 'Lee Konitz 10-step method' for some examples of how Lee Konitz (a brilliant improviser) gradually transforms the melody into an improvised solo.

  18. #167

    User Info Menu

    Writing a solo is great. Heck, write 3 solos over the same tune.

    OP, what are you doing now when you practice tunes?

  19. #168

    User Info Menu

    It depends on your current level.

    Basics:

    1. Play the melody/theme

    2. Improvise a variation of the melody
    • Play a melodic phrase.
    • Pay attention to rhythm, tempo and timing
    • Repeat the phrase with variation when the harmony changes
    • Pay attention to the end note of each phrase
    • Make use of long notes and pauses, double stops, octaves and bends.
    • Pay attention to your slots (when to play and when not to play)


    3. Practice

    • Train muscle memory

    Internalize a library of licks and patterns; building blocks when improvising phrases.
    Practice modes, scales and arpeggios to internalize intervals on the fretboard.
    Scat

    • Train your ears

    Internalize the sound of different modes and scales and arpeggios.
    Listen to music. Listen, listen. Break free from bonds of guitar oriented music.

    • Tips

    Copy an advanced solo, try to nail it, note by note.
    Write an advanced solo, internalize it.
    Copy a short lick, re-use it in different songs
    Play with eyes closed and ears open

    Advanced:

    1. Break free from your old licks and patterns.
    2. Play long notes to extend harmony
    3. Improvise over songs that modulate over different keys.
    4. Increase intervals between notes
    5. Alternate between chords and lines
    6. Move in and out from the scale
    7. Compose melodies

    Good luck

  20. #169

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    "It is not possible to improvise." I'm not making this up. Those aren't my words but I am quoting an unquestionable authority I read somewhere. So I stand by that. But don't quote me.
    David
    I think you jest, but I had a very interesting conversation last night with a piano player who is regarded as a monster improvisor. He tours the world and sits in with the very best. I have seen him live dozens of times, and every show is unique, even every solo is unique. Yet he confessed that he doesn't think he really improvises!

    Further, he's convinced that many of the great so called improvisors don't really improvise either! Heresy!!

    OK, what I think he means is that he learns dozens of jazz "words" and "sentences" that he strings together for certain chord types. It sure sounds like he's improvising because he's able to sound fresh continually, but he's just putting sentences together instead of individual letters together to form new words on the fly.

    Now, those of us who enjoy putting letters together to form new words each time are either playing slowly and targeting chord tones, or are able to apply chunks of CST derived cells for each chord type... neither of which sounds like the authentic language of the Boppers.

    Personally I enjoy trying to actually improvise, but that part of my playing is just me making up melodies that don't always land chord tones, but still sound resolved or right because I get ok at "making" it sound right by how I follow up on an idea that pops out (delayed resolution, or turning into a sequence etc etc).

    The other part of my playing comprises prefab fast lines that i learn in 5 positions, that are dropped in when I can think of them in time. I try to work a lot on starting them on different parts of the bar, or different strings. I don't think I'm yet good enough to sound like it's all improv, but it's the path i'm on. I'd like to be 50/50 when it comes to prefab lines vs 100% real improv, but I'd love to one day hide the seams well enough so that other players can't tell...

  21. #170

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot81
    Right now I'm going through the Mickey Baker jazz book and I finding the chord ideas very helpful. The thing I have been trying to do is getting better at soloing. What are somethings I should do to get better. I have Charlie Parker Omnibook and learned 2 heads and some of the solo in one. But how do I transfer that to my own playing? I was told to look and analyze my favorite lick and transpose to different keys.
    Another idea I thought of was writing solos based on chord progressions for my favorite standards. For example I love how High the Moon, so with that I was thinking of just writing lines for those changes, would that be a good approach?
    All in all im looking for any tips that would help me getting better at soloing over jazz changes!

    Where are you in your development? Do you play regularly with other people? Do you know many tunes? Are you pretty good, but somehow looking to go in another direction or break out of a rut, or are you a beginner who doesn't know how to get started with soloing yet? Somewhere in between? It's very hard to advise people on what to do without knowing what they can do.

    All that said, my advice is nearly always to learn tunes, and play with other people. The times in my life when I've made the most progress as a musician have been when I've done that. Practicing and studying is important, but to learn jazz, you have to play jazz, which requires repertoire and ensemble playing.

    John

  22. #171

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Google 'Lee Konitz 10-step method' for some examples of how Lee Konitz (a brilliant improviser) gradually transforms the melody into an improvised solo.
    'Konitz is a master of the art of jazz improvisation. The alto saxophonist on Miles Davis' historic Birth Of The Cool sessions'

    Shurly shome mishtake ?

  23. #172

    User Info Menu

    You know there is a gap between

    a) pesronal creative power on one side and
    b) tools and skills to embody this power

    There is always this gap... even the greatest, most talented musicians have this gap.

    Because you are are the source of what you are doing in music.

    I do not believe there is a really systematic way to become more creative, one either has or not (but there is chance it opens up later! There is always a chance).

    So developeing the "a" section is very individual if ever possible
    It is the mistery of human peronality and individuality.
    You know there is no progress in how tree grows or rain drops fall. It can be dofferent but there is no improvement.
    So are the artists - their maturity is mostly connected with long practical experience, with development of their techniques (''b'' section) in relation to more or less stable 'creative ideas'
    (ever trying to fill this gap)

    there is possibility to develope the ''b'' section. It can be better or wors organized. It can be described in clear terms
    It won't subsitute the lack of creativity but it can be a vehicle to support when the ''a'' thing does not work.

    So to say - it will let you sit on oars when the wind is gone.

    But where and why the vessel goes - no-can say except you...

  24. #173

    User Info Menu

    Some additional great advice.



    Cincy

  25. #174

    User Info Menu

    And another excellent lesson.



    Cincy

  26. #175

    User Info Menu

    Learn as many tunes as you can, listen to as much jazz as you can, and transcribe as much as you can!