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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by dot75 View Post
    Mimi Fox interview

    Mimi Fox Expands Jazz Guitar from the Inside Out - GuitarPlayer.com

    'As an educator, what is the most prevalent problem with jazz guitar students?
    For one thing, they don’t practice enough. They want it overnight, and they don’t work on essentials such as arpeggios. Also, I typically encounter two types of students: those that are devoted and put in the hours, but don’t have a good time feel or don’t swing or have some other serious issues musically; and those that have a lot of innate musical talent, but are lazy. The study of any art form requires tremendous discipline, and jazz is paradoxical in that all this discipline is so that when you get up on stage you can play freely.
    Another thing is that students don’t do enough transcribing. They think that somehow they’ll get their own sound by osmosis. And, although it is actually by osmosis—it’s an osmosis that has to happen from listening and working to acquire important harmonic and melodic data by really digging into the music. I can play dozens of solos note-for-note that are still in my head from the first transcriptions that I did, and that’s because I spent so much time listening and then writing those solos down and tapping out the rhythms. So, again, paradoxically you get your own sound by listening to other people. But you don’t get it by saying you are going to get it—you have to work at it.'

    I fall into a third category, talentless and lazy.
    Haha! Never mind, you still may be able to find some youngsters to play some one chord vampy Fusion with...

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    "When you can snatch the eighth-note from my hand, it will be time for you to go."

    How to get better at improvising?-61e3655180c627bb117631825787fd38-jpg
    "As for me, all I know is that I know nothing." - Socrates
    “Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun.” - Alan Wilson Watts

  4. #53

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    or maybe it will be time to start on 16ths?

  5. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Patriot81 -



    That's not what your post #1 indicated at all.



    Different styles are different styles. Technically-speaking what one can do on a guitar is the same, it's how the techniques are applied. R&B isn't jazz any more than, say, reggae or bluegrass is jazz. But the techniques are the same - scales, arpeggios, pentatonics, passing notes, etc etc. It's all in the delivery.
    my bad, nevermind what I said, basically I am a beginner at jazz style soloing

  6. #55
    So right now I'm going through the Mickey baker as my main course of study, and to implement those ideas, I have the CP onimibook and a book of Charlie Christian solo, I figure analyzing what that did and try to incorporate their ideas into my playing would help.

  7. #56
    https://www.amazon.com/Mel-Bay-Swing.../dp/0786673192
    I was able to get this Charlie Christian book that has a number of his solos and analyzed solos and the author went over a number of his ideas and techniques, been learning his Rose Room solo!
    So for I think I would want to base my style of Charlie Parker and Charlie Christian, it will a lot of studying and fun!.

  8. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    I think we all want to 'keep getting better at soloing over jazz changes', it's a lifelong process that never stops. Even Pat Metheny said he is an eternal student of the guitar. You've already started that process by learning some Parker phrases and thinking about writing your own solos. Keep doing stuff like that. Personally I always found this process to be interesting enough, even 'fun', to keep doing it, despite any frustration along the way.

    In my case, I suppose I followed princeplanet's approach i.e. mainly copying stuff off jazz records until I could make up my own lines. I also learned enough theory and technical stuff (scales, arps etc) to support that process, however that was not my primary focus.

    But I was able to play some decent lines over a simple tune like Autumn Leaves after a year or so, I don't think it needs to take years to get to a point like that.
    Im in the same place as well! I love theory and the more theoretical aspects of jazz, and looking at some of Charlie Parker's lines, it seems he's not doing any thing out of this world from a theory standpoint, but its the way he does of the changes that's awesome. Especially the blues.
    I need to learn autumn leaves as well

  9. #58

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    I’ve found that singing along with your soloing — like George Benson, for example — instantly makes it more musical and interesting. The act of vocalizing triggers something magical in the brain that translates to the fingers.

  10. #59

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    I'm learning to improvise also but my case there's a catch when trying to improve with practicing a lot.
    After a some days of all sorts of routines, the rhythm gets snappy, more confidence, you know all the technical shape gets better. But it tends to get automatic. "Better" but it's a little numb, a little predictable. Not fully satisfying. Recording my solo, seeing that it IS actually better now but not pleasing in the right way.. that's quite frustrating. And on top of that, I know bloody sure that I've done better with way less knowledge, skill etc.

    Now I'm after getting "emotionally" connected to the guitar, so that just about any note would make me feel good.. even the funky wrong ones

    *mini-compositions. Just pick a short chord progression and try create a good passage over it. "good" meaning a "lightbulb" moment.
    *playing lots of simple hit tunes by ear, connecting them always to my scale patterns that I use.
    *listen how a single long note FEELS against another(bass) note, or a chord.
    *listen before playing a thing. If doing that, I can start hearing the new note or chord in my mind. It's a real thing, this really happens

    Well, those are my mind games. Seems to be working, sometimes surprisingly well.

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot81 View Post
    https://www.amazon.com/Mel-Bay-Swing.../dp/0786673192
    I was able to get this Charlie Christian book that has a number of his solos and analyzed solos and the author went over a number of his ideas and techniques, been learning his Rose Room solo!
    So for I think I would want to base my style of Charlie Parker and Charlie Christian, it will a lot of studying and fun!.
    Great, just as long as you realize that Christian was a bit early. I would advise that you learn some of his stuff - for sure - but don't get stuck in the swing era for too long (unless that's your bag, baby ).

    If you want to align with Christian and Bird I would also recommend that you check out Joe Pass' books. He's fully steeped in bebop and swing and breaks down a lot for you. He lived longer than Charlie and Wes and made some time to produce some learning materials. There is also a Joe Pass Omnibook now. Learn some Wes solos, or portions thereof, as well!

  12. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    Great, just as long as you realize that Christian was a bit early. I would advise that you learn some of his stuff - for sure - but don't get stuck in the swing era for too long (unless that's your bag, baby ).

    If you want to align with Christian and Bird I would also recommend that you check out Joe Pass' books. He's fully steeped in bebop and swing and breaks down a lot for you. He lived longer than Charlie and Wes and made some time to produce some learning materials. There is also a Joe Pass Omnibook now. Learn some Wes solos, or portions thereof, as well!
    I love Joe Pass and Wes! i have heard of Joes guitar style books, so his books are not solo guitar based? Like could his ideas apply to group soloing?
    For Wes one solo I love is his for on six solo, but can't find sheet music for it online, so I might have to learn it by ear.

  13. #62
    Also when learning solos, what are somethings I should be doing to while learning the solos in order to be useful for my own playing outside of what im learning. I have heard things like find lines that I like and transpose them to every key and to make variations of those licks.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by dot75 View Post
    Mimi Fox interview

    Mimi Fox Expands Jazz Guitar from the Inside Out - GuitarPlayer.com

    'As an educator, what is the most prevalent problem with jazz guitar students?
    For one thing, they don’t practice enough. They want it overnight, and they don’t work on essentials such as arpeggios. Also, I typically encounter two types of students: those that are devoted and put in the hours, but don’t have a good time feel or don’t swing or have some other serious issues musically; and those that have a lot of innate musical talent, but are lazy. The study of any art form requires tremendous discipline, and jazz is paradoxical in that all this discipline is so that when you get up on stage you can play freely.
    Another thing is that students don’t do enough transcribing. They think that somehow they’ll get their own sound by osmosis. And, although it is actually by osmosis—it’s an osmosis that has to happen from listening and working to acquire important harmonic and melodic data by really digging into the music. I can play dozens of solos note-for-note that are still in my head from the first transcriptions that I did, and that’s because I spent so much time listening and then writing those solos down and tapping out the rhythms. So, again, paradoxically you get your own sound by listening to other people. But you don’t get it by saying you are going to get it—you have to work at it.'

    I fall into a third category, talentless and lazy.
    Mimi is an encyclopedia of jazz vocabulary. You can hear it when she solos. But, to me, the unique thing about her playing is her intense sense of time. She was a drummer first, and attributes it to that. The word crisp doesn't do her justice. Also, she has massive chops.

  15. #64
    Here a clip of me improvising on How High the Moon, I tried several things
    I tried to improvise based on the melody
    then I tried to solo on the big strings with a kind of figure I made up
    I was learning ornithology by Charlie Parker and found they are the same changes, so I used some ideas from the start of his solo on there.
    Feel free to destroy me on this solo lol. Im trying!
    Attached Files Attached Files

  16. #65

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    Patriot -

    Well done. It's so refreshing to find an enquirer on here who doesn't just ask a question and then disappears. Not only have you stuck at it but you've had the BALLS to show us a clip. Brilliant.

    Okay, here's my reaction. First, too fast for a starter. HHTM isn't a beginner's tune. So, slow it down a tad and take it easy with an easier tune and chord progression. Autumn Leaves sounds a good idea.

    Then notes. It's not bad but, as I say, at that speed you're going to sacrifice note choices. I think it was Joe Pass who said if the backing is removed you should be able to make out the chords by the notes. I don't know if I'm making that clear.

    I can hear what you're doing. On what basis are you playing those lines? I know you said Charlie Parker but he's an expert and you have to know why you're playing what you're playing. Is it basically scales or playing around the chord shapes? Those are the two main approaches before it gets far more advanced.

    That's enough destruction (!). What do you say?

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar View Post
    Mimi is an encyclopedia of jazz vocabulary. You can hear it when she solos. But, to me, the unique thing about her playing is her intense sense of time. She was a drummer first, and attributes it to that. The word crisp doesn't do her justice. Also, she has massive chops.
    She talks about still practising drums & transcribing Art Blakey solos...it shows in her playing

  18. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Patriot -

    Well done. It's so refreshing to find an enquirer on here who doesn't just ask a question and then disappears. Not only have you stuck at it but you've had the BALLS to show us a clip. Brilliant.

    Okay, here's my reaction. First, too fast for a starter. HHTM isn't a beginner's tune. So, slow it down a tad and take it easy with an easier tune and chord progression. Autumn Leaves sounds a good idea.

    Then notes. It's not bad but, as I say, at that speed you're going to sacrifice note choices. I think it was Joe Pass who said, if the backing is removed, you should be able to make out the chords by the notes. I don't know if I'm making that clear.

    I can hear what you're doing. On what basis are you playing those lines? Is it basically scales or playing around the chord shape? Those are the two main approaches before it gets far more advanced.

    That's enough destruction (!). What do you say?
    Yeah, im liking this site lots of resource, but more importantly a good community, so I get to actually have feedback from more experienced player, I love to learn!
    I love that observation about playing too fast, I was listening to a Charlie Christian soloing on blues song last night and the was he developed without playing fast was crazy.
    Autumn Leaves is one song I need to learn, I should make a list of easier standards to learn.
    For this I was thinking in terms of scales, and trying to hit chord tones, mainly the roots to start for now, but since I know the song's melody, I think I may be hitting other tones without thinking of it too much.

  19. #68

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    Why were you doubling up on so many notes? Nerves, or did you just run out of notes to continue the line? :-)

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    Great, just as long as you realize that Christian was a bit early.
    Ted Gioia, in his History of Jazz, talks of the "post-Christian period".

  21. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Why were you doubling up on so many notes? Nerves, or did you just run out of notes to continue the line? :-)
    Im so used to do that in some of my rock and blues improvising, so thats probably why im doing it lol
    So maybe a mixture of running out of and having a small number of solo ideas.
    I need to learn how to have lines. Would things like playing through arpeggios be considered a line? In the Rose Room solo by Charlie Christian im learning I like some of his arpeggio ideas.

  22. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick View Post
    Ted Gioia, in his History of Jazz, talks of the "post-Christian period".
    I love that book its a really great read!
    Im a book nerd btw for anyone here, so if there are any jazz related book, theory or just for reading wise, im super open for talking about that!

    On a similar note the book John Coltrane: His life and Music by Lewis Porter is a great read as well!

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot81 View Post
    Im so used to do that in some of my rock and blues improvising, so thats probably why im doing it lol
    So maybe a mixture of running out of and having a small number of solo ideas.
    I need to learn how to have lines. Would things like playing through arpeggios be considered a line? In the Rose Room solo by Charlie Christian I'm learning I like some of his arpeggio ideas.
    Yes, arpeggios are lines, especially when they connect with each other. But don't rely on them too much, times have changed since Charlie Christian.

    As a matter of fact the CP Omnibook would probably have good ideas for lines. I haven't seen that book but one problem could be that some bebop lines aren't at all obvious. Simple scale lines and arpeggios are usually simple to understand but bebop language isn't always. Like I said, it's essential that one knows why one is playing what one plays. Otherwise it becomes mere imitation.

    Another point is the thing about solo ideas. I feel it's a real mistake (in fact I know it is) to try to hold an idea in one's head and then try to approximate it musically. It stifles playing. It's far, far better to know the chords and what one's basically supposed to be playing over them and then just let rip. Improvisation is walking a high wire without a safety net. It won't always be brilliant but it's better than trying to copy something preconceived. Experiment with it and see.

    I suppose you've been on to YouTube and found the vids of Rose Room. There's a transcription if you read music but there are also versions by cover players that'll show you where to put the fingers. All good stuff.

  24. #73

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    Yeah, you should ignore what the greats did and noodle on 7 note scales. Be sure to chase every single chord.

    Jesus.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  25. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Yes, arpeggios are lines, especially when they connect with each other. But don't rely on them too much, times have changed since Charlie Christian.

    As a matter of fact the CP Omnibook would probably have good ideas for lines. I haven't seen that book but one problem could be that some bebop lines aren't at all obvious. Simple scale lines and arpeggios are usually simple to understand but bebop language isn't always. Like I said, it's essential that one knows why one is playing what one plays. Otherwise it becomes mere imitation.

    Another point is the thing about solo ideas. I feel it's a real mistake (in fact I know it is) to try to hold an idea in one's head and then try to approximate it musically. It stifles playing. It's far, far better to know the chords and what one's basically supposed to be playing over them and then just let rip. Improvisation is walking a high wire without a safety net. It won't always be brilliant but it's better than trying to copy something preconceived. Experiment with it and see.

    I suppose you've been on to YouTube and found the vids of Rose Room. There's a transcription if you read music but there are also versions by cover players that'll show you where to put the fingers. All good stuff.
    I was fortunate to run into this book of a bunch of Charlie Christian solo transcriptions.
    https://www.amazon.com/Mel-Bay-Swing.../dp/0786673192

    Not only does it have his solos written out but the author analyze it and the first few hundred pages he talks about the various chord and scale ideas he used

    This and the omnibook are going to my main tools as far as solo studying

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Yeah, you should ignore what the greats did and noodle on 7 note scales. Be sure to chase every single chord.

    Jesus.
    2 beers on an empty stomach!

    No-o-o-o, do NOT ignore what anyone does, do NOT noodle over anything, and do NOT do one chord at a time. A line is a line, a phrase, a sentence, a paragraph, a page.

    It's a sound and a feeling, not an exercise.

  27. #76

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    Lol...I'm just being crabby.

    But seriously, if your improv sucks, start with Charlie and Django.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  28. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot81 View Post
    I was fortunate to run into this book of a bunch of Charlie Christian solo transcriptions.
    https://www.amazon.com/Mel-Bay-Swing.../dp/0786673192

    Not only does it have his solos written out but the author analyze it and the first few hundred pages he talks about the various chord and scale ideas he used

    This and the omnibook are going to my main tools as far as solo studying
    I used to have that book, I may still have. I stopped using books :-)

    The thing about using arpeggios like that is that these days, frankly, they sound dated and a bit sparse. I doubt if anyone plays a solo like that now, at least I've never heard it. BUT - to learn arpeggios, yes. Good resource.

    But, look, you must start simply. I know you'll do it your way, and so you should, but you can't do the impossible. The CP stuff is highly advanced. You must know that. Especially on a guitar. It's much harder to finger than a saxophone.

  29. #78

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    Patriot -

    Now there's a thing. All this talk of Parker, Christian and Django...

    Can you post one vid from YouTube of a jazz guitar player whose style you really like? Not what would be easiest for you to copy and play, but the sort of style you'd like to sound like. What jazz sound really does it for you? Just out of interest.

  30. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    I used to have that book, I may still have. I stopped using books :-)

    The thing about using arpeggios like that is that these days, frankly, they sound dated and a bit sparse. I doubt if anyone plays a solo like that now, at least I've never heard it. BUT - to learn arpeggios, yes. Good resource.

    But, look, you must start simply. I know you'll do it your way, and so you should, but you can't do the impossible. The CP stuff is highly advanced. You must know that. Especially on a guitar. It's much harder to finger than a saxophone.
    From the fingering standpoint its not too much of a challenge, I play classical guitar as well so my fingers are pretty nimble. Like I already have some of his ornithology solo down.
    It the theoretical stuff and trying to understand what he, and other players, do in order to make their own solos sound great!

  31. #80

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    Cheer up Mr B, don't like to see you down

    He's a nice man, you know

  32. #81

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    Here's one I like. Walking the wire, no net. Really good solid jazz guitar playing. And guess what, he's a poster here. You can talk to him! He will talk to you!


  33. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot81 View Post
    From the fingering standpoint its not too much of a challenge, I play classical guitar as well so my fingers are pretty nimble. Like I already have some of his ornithology solo down.
    It the theoretical stuff and trying to understand what he, and other players, do in order to make their own solos sound great!
    I understand but, trust me, it's hard. It's also somewhat dependent on individual style. What they do is what they do.

    If you think of it, there's just the guitar, six strings and the same notes, same tunes, same chords, same 'rules', etc, etc. But what makes Joe Pass different from Wes Montgomery, different from Pat Martino, different from Ed Bickert, different from Jimmy Raney? That's the point, isn't it?

    It's because they're them. We'll never be someone else but we can always glean things from others. But in the end we come back to ourselves... :-)

  34. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    I understand but, trust me, it's hard. It's also somewhat dependent on individual style. What they do is what they do.

    If you think of it, there's just the guitar, six strings and the same notes, same tunes, same chords, same 'rules', etc, etc. But what makes Joe Pass different from Wes Montgomery, different from Pat Martino, different from Ed Bickert, different from Jimmy Raney? That's the point, isn't it?

    It's because they're them. We'll never be someone else but we can always glean things from others. But in the end we come back to ourselves... :-)
    I get what your saying. I really just need to play more and form my own style in the process

  35. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Here's one I like. Walking the wire, no net. Really good solid jazz guitar playing. And guess what, he's a poster here. You can talk to him! He will talk to you!

    Now thats what im talking about lol. Thats a really nice solo. Something im trying to aim for improvising wise. I will definitely reach out to him!

  36. #85

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    Reach, reach!

  37. #86
    Anyone could recommend a first rhythm changes song to really learn?

  38. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot81 View Post
    Anyone could recommend a first rhythm changes song to really learn?
    i got rhythm?
    White belt
    My Youtube

  39. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot81 View Post
    Now thats what im talking about lol. Thats a really nice solo. Something im trying to aim for improvising wise. I will definitely reach out to him!
    Hi, that’s my video. I would try and explain my approach like this. Bear in mind I had been playing jazz for about 25 years when I made that video, so not a quick process!

    When I started learning jazz I had some theory and scales from doing classical guitar, but no jazz knowledge. Also there was no internet then and I had no books. So I just copied bits of solos I liked off records and played around with them on different tunes and gradually built up some lines to use. I also learned a number of tunes by ear (I had no fakebooks then) and worked out the chord changes by ear. The only book I got then was the Joe Pass chord book as I wanted to know the common jazz chord shapes (I had been playing rock guitar so didn’t have a clue about jazz chords).

    So really I just kept on like that for years and eventually could play lines on different tunes. But I would say a lot of what I play is really made up of little bits and pieces of existing ideas which I just re-combine on the fly, as it were.

    Later on I learned more theory etc. but that always came second for me.

    The main players I copied stuff from were Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, Dexter Gordon and Chet Baker. Charlie Parker a bit less, simply because I found his solos a bit too fast and complicated to learn from. But I did steal some Parker ideas here and there.

    I must admit I find it difficult to explain this stuff because I just followed my ear and intuition really.

  40. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    i got rhythm?

  41. #90

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    That's how you get better ... excellent. Play, record and post it.

    I'd suggest working on your time first and foremost. Specifically, be as critical as you can be that those 1/8th notes fall exactly when and how you want them to. My advice is take your solo, slow it down by 50%, and play it over and over and over, being deliberately intentional to make the groove a little stronger.

    I think most time issues for most players are technical, rather than not hearing or feeling the time correctly. The only way to work through that is slowly. Exaggerate the evenness of every note in the line. Repeat. Repeat. Ad nauseum.

    You wont improve the things (I think) you need to improve on by playing at that tempo. Period.

    I'd second the idea that the CP omnibook isn't a great place to start ... unless you're simply a super talented mofo. It's like a calculus book when you're in the 3rd grade. Unless your name is Will Hunting, that won't be super useful. There are a LOT of more productive ways to approach jazz.

    Also, I'd suggest using any solo transcription book as a reference when you get stuck instead of as the source.

    Learning the scales and arps and voicings is useful, but not nearly as important as (a) playing with good feel, and (b) learning lines. The world's greatest writers rarely have the world's largest vocabulary. A dictionary isn't a lot of fun to read.

    I actually like the doubling up of notes. I think most jazz players don't do that enough. We move on to another note too soon. I might scale it down a little, but the idea of it isn't something to shy away from.

    I'm new here, but this forum seems pretty awesome. A superb resource with some super helpful folks.
    Make America Groove Again

  42. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    Hi, that’s my video. I would try and explain my approach like this. Bear in mind I had been playing jazz for about 25 years when I made that video, so not a quick process!

    When I started learning jazz I had some theory and scales from doing classical guitar, but no jazz knowledge. Also there was no internet then and I had no books. So I just copied bits of solos I liked off records and played around with them on different tunes and gradually built up some lines to use. I also learned a number of tunes by ear (I had no fakebooks then) and worked out the chord changes by ear. The only book I got then was the Joe Pass chord book as I wanted to know the common jazz chord shapes (I had been playing rock guitar so didn’t have a clue about jazz chords).

    So really I just kept on like that for years and eventually could play lines on different tunes. But I would say a lot of what I play is really made up of little bits and pieces of existing ideas which I just re-combine on the fly, as it were.

    Later on I learned more theory etc. but that always came second for me.

    The main players I copied stuff from were Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, Dexter Gordon and Chet Baker. Charlie Parker a bit less, simply because I found his solos a bit too fast and complicated to learn from. But I did steal some Parker ideas here and there.

    I must admit I find it difficult to explain this stuff because I just followed my ear and intuition really.
    So when soloing you don't really think in scales? or is it just might learn which notes work over each chord and just improvise without thinking too much about which notes fit?

  43. #92

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    The notes that work over each chord...are in the chords!
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  44. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot81 View Post
    So when soloing you don't really think in scales? or is it just might learn which notes work over each chord and just improvise without thinking too much about which notes fit?
    I don’t think about scales much when playing. It’s more like melodic lines that connect the chord tones. Everything we play should be a melody or melodic fragment.

    In my head, once I know a tune reasonably well, I can hear the sound of the chords (especially root, 3rd and 7th) and I know what lines and notes will fit. I can usually hear them without a guitar in my hands.

    One thing to work on is major and minor ii-V-I progressions, and the altered notes on the V (dominant) chord in those progressions. If you can play correctly on those, and recognise them wherever they occur, you can nail about 50% of what occurs in all jazz standards. Because they are everywhere in the tunes.

  45. #94

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    As above :-)

    Thinking only in scales is very, very limiting. But then so is thinking only in arpeggios. One needs everything, a bit of a scale here, an arpeggio there, an altered sound in the right place. And, as Mr. Beaumont said, the right notes are in the chords, or around them.

    Incidentally most of the great players did it the way grahambop described. They listened, wore out their old LPs, learned tunes by ear, and played with others. Playing with others is a hell of an instruction.

    I think you're having trouble settling on a tune. Rhythm changes, I'm afraid, is usually played fast in Bb and I wouldn't recommend it personally unless it was slowed down considerably.

    There's a tune on the Practical Standards thread at the moment called Satin Doll. It's medium swing, in C, and has pretty basic chord changes. You could give that a go, if you like, but it's just a suggestion.

    By the way, do you read music, even badly?

  46. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    As above :-)

    Thinking only in scales is very, very limiting. But then so is thinking only in arpeggios. One needs everything, a bit of a scale here, an arpeggio there, an altered sound in the right place. And, as Mr. Beaumont said, the right notes are in the chords, or around them.

    Incidentally most of the great players did it the way grahambop described. They listened, wore out their old LPs, learned tunes by ear, and played with others. Playing with others is a hell of an instruction.

    I think you're having trouble settling on a tune. Rhythm changes, I'm afraid, is usually played fast in Bb and I wouldn't recommend it personally unless it was slowed down considerably.

    There's a tune on the Practical Standards thread at the moment called Satin Doll. It's medium swing, in C, and has pretty basic chord changes. You could give that a go, if you like, but it's just a suggestion.

    By the way, do you read music, even badly?
    Yeah, I guess my main problem is choosing songs to learn and study. I guess at least 5 five to start would be cool in various key jazz styles would be a decent start?
    And yes I can read standard notation just fine!

  47. #96

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    Find one you really like. Never mind five or ten, just one that hits the spot for you. And get working on it. Don't be one of those people who are forever making plans and never quite get round to it.

    With me it was Summertime and then Georgia. With you, who knows? Find your fave, dive in, and it'll work. Obvious reason, because if you love that song it'll stick with very little effort.

  48. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Find one you really like. Never mind five or ten, just one that hits the spot for you. And get working on it. Don't be one of those people who are forever making plans and never quite get round to it.

    With me it was Summertime and then Georgia. With you, who knows? Find your fave, dive in, and it'll work. Obvious reason, because if you love that song it'll stick with very little effort.
    I think thats what I will do, just go after tunes I like!

    Right now I have been learning Take the A train, and using the idea of using different chords for the progressions that are laid out in the Mickey Baker jazz book!

  49. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot81 View Post
    I think thats what I will do, just go after tunes I like!

    Right now I have been learning Take the A train, and using the idea of using different chords for the progressions that are laid out in the Mickey Baker jazz book!
    Okay, it's a start. But why different chords? Why not the ordinary chords for that tune?

    Your emphasis here is on improvising. What are you going to play over these chords? Does the MB book give you any ideas for lines or is it just chords?

  50. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnatola View Post
    what's wrong with that?
    White belt
    My Youtube

  51. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    what's wrong with that?



    I'm not an emoji expert but I think poster may mean 'why didn't I think of that?'

    The thing about I Got is it has a turn around at the end that needs to be dropped for improv.

    32 bars
    AABA