improvising on rhythm changes

[pingu]

Does anyone else find rhythm changes tough to play on?

I’m meandering around bluesy riffs and noodling...

Any tips?

[Drumbler]

I've been working on it lately.

I've been following the chords with scales and arpeggios.

I'm learning a solo the past few days created by Impro-visor.

[jzucker]

copy some bird lines. Make sure you can make the transition from the Bb to the Bnatural and the A to the Ab when it goes down to the VI7 chord. Too many cats can't make that change and it's really important when you're first learning ... to nail that that.

[MarkRhodes]

There's good stuff here from Frank Vignola.

[grahambop]

This gives you a simple scale framework to work from:

[TOMMO]

Here's the first of five sample choruses that I've worked on when trying to learn rhythm changes - some fine phrases to be found:

[christianm77]

copy some bird lines. Make sure you can make the transition from the Bb to the Bnatural and the A to the Ab when it goes down to the VI7 chord. Too many cats can't make that change and it's really important when you're first learning ... to nail that that.

Yeah this is really good advice.

Rhythm changes is a what I call a turnaround tune - that is a set of turnarounds stuck together (4 in the first A with a 3 turnarounds with II-V-I cadence at the end of the 2nd and 3rd A's.) Other tunes like this include Bewitched, Ain't Misbehaving, One Note Samba (slower changes) and so on.

The challenge is to not let the changes boss you around, but get good at playing turnarounds at various levels of detail, for instance not always playing every chord, but sometimes playing simpler changes, or substituting the original changes for other turnarounds.

Don't be too wedded to chord scales relationships either, the chords on the third beat of each bar are very much passing chords. For instance, you'll hear people playing Eb7, Eo7, Ebm6, Ab7#11, all sorts of things in the second half of bar 6, and not all of these chords are very closely related... But they all do the same thing - get back to the Bb or Dm chord.

There are quite a few variations of the basic changes. Some are more swing era, some more bebop, some more modern. In this it is somewhat like the blues.... Best thing is to look at lots of charts, and listen to a lot of rhythm tunes.

So as a result (and also because I am influenced by Barry Harris) I use a somewhat generalised view of the progression, similar to the video above. The important thing is to create movement from I to II, and back, and I to IV and back. As II and IV are intimately connected, in practice you can chop and change once you are comfortable with the basics.

As Jack says it is more common to play the move B natural into the C on Cm and Ab into G (on Eb) but there are a few traditional line cliches it's good to know. They get used as bass lines etc. For starters:

I to II to I
Bb B | C C# | D
D Db | C B | Bb

I to IV to I
Bb Ab | G Gb | F
Bb D | Eb E | F

These might sound a bit corny at first, but they are super useful.

[christianm77]

Here's the first of five sample choruses that I've worked on when trying to learn rhythm changes - some fine phrases to be found:

If you are hardcore, shouldn't be G7 in bar 1 apparently (I always ignore this advice)

[TOMMO]

If you are hardcore, shouldn't be G7 in bar 1 apparently (I always ignore this advice)

G-7 as in I Got Rhythm - that's what you mean? G7 (b9/#9) leading to C-7 sounds more exciting (more tension) to me...

[David B]

Roni Ben-Hur (Inside Rhythm Changes) - Videos 1 & 2 Bundle - My Music Masterclass

^ Roni Ben-Hur has a great two part class on MyMusicMasterclass.

[jzucker]

If you are hardcore, shouldn't be G7 in bar 1 apparently (I always ignore this advice)

who says? There isn't a single bird recording where the G7 isn't used.

[MarkRhodes]

Here's the first of five sample choruses that I've worked on when trying to learn rhythm changes - some fine phrases to be found:

Really enjoyed that! Very tasty stuff there. Thank you.

[Doublea A]

We have a study group that is going (slowly) through the Frank Vignola Book in which he has written out 16 solos for RC. The solos get increasingly difficult but are still very approachable. I would encourage you to take a look at his book for some tasty improvisational ideas and if you like join the group.

[christianm77]

G-7 as in I Got Rhythm - that's what you mean? G7 (b9/#9) leading to C-7 sounds more exciting (more tension) to me...

Pretty much all of the Parker heads I know have a G7 only in bar 3.... would need to go through some solos as well.... it’s a thing Barry talks about

[pingu]

We have a study group that is going (slowly) through the Frank Vignola Book in which he has written out 16 solos for RC. The solos get increasingly difficult but are still very approachable. I would encourage you to take a look at his book for some tasty improvisational ideas and if you like join the group.

thanks for the invite Doub

and thanks everyone ,
i like the Roni BH vids too

[Pycroft]

who says? There isn't a single bird recording where the G7 isn't used.

Absolutely not true .e.g.

Christian is right when he says there are different levels of harmonic detail you can play over this and you need to master all of them and be able to switch between them effortlessly . It took me a long time to figure out that you don't have to resolve every line but that everything you play has to have a melodic and rhythmic intent .

Rhythm changes is tough but it's worth the effort .

[TOMMO]

Pretty much all of the Parker heads I know have a G7 only in bar 3.... would need to go through some solos as well.... it’s a thing Barry talks about

Are we talking the key of Bb?

[christianm77]

Are we talking the key of Bb?

Yes

[MarkRhodes]

We have a study group that is going (slowly) through the Frank Vignola Book in which he has written out 16 solos for RC. The solos get increasingly difficult but are still very approachable. I would encourage you to take a look at his book for some tasty improvisational ideas and if you like join the group.

I'm part of that study group and plan to get back to it. I've been working on a walking bass & comp chorus over rhythm changes and I'll play a chorus of that, then a solo chorus, then a walk / comp chorus, then another solo. Not art but my feel is improving. Lately I use some of Frank's etudes (they hang together well unaccompanied) in this practice. I like his stuff. His phrasing is definite (no noodling) and he combines phrases well. His solos do "tell a story."

[christianm77]

who says? There isn't a single bird recording where the G7 isn't used.

Barry Harris.... This is not something I've actually dug into myself, so I'm reporting what I remember him saying on the subject.

IIRC Barry also said that early in his career Parker tended not to play the G7 in the turnaround, but this became a feature of his later playing? Was a while ago, maybe Alan could tell you for sure.

As I mentioned, of the top of my head the note B tends to appear in bar 3 of his RC heads where it appears.

Would have to sit down and go through his stuff to see if that's generally true of his soloing. Do tend to take BH's word on these things though.

[jzucker]

Absolutely not true .e.g.

do 5 minutes of transcription and you'll hear that bird almost *NEVER* treated the IV chord as min7.

The melody doesn't matter. Unlike show tunes, the melody on bebop was just an excuse to get to the solos.

[christianm77]

Actually, having a quick cheeky scan through the Omnibook and yeah... Not many articulations of the G7 at all in his early stuff, more in his later, and I can't see any in bar 1 of the A section, probably will be some examples if you look properly.

Notice Aebersold's chords often written

| Bb | Cm7 F7 | Bb | Cm F7

Or

| Bb | Cm7 F7 | Bb G7 | Cm F7

Although, more often that G7 isn't actually articulated unambiguously in the line by using the B natural...

Interesting!

[christianm77]

do 5 minutes of transcription and you'll hear that bird almost *NEVER* treated the IV chord as min7.

Or Eo7 for that matter?

Something I'd noticed in the stuff I'd done, but interesting to hear someone else confirm it.

I think for fast tunes as well it's just a bit fiddly. Barry tends to teach Eb7 there.

[pingu]

Christian is right when he says there are different levels of harmonic detail you can play over this and you need to master all of them and be able to switch between them effortlessly .

Rhythm changes is tough but it's worth the effort .

i like that it's not only me that finds RC tough !

Frank Vignola said he finds it tough to play all the changes too
and tends to play bluesey things
That Is reassuring! Cos Frank is a great great player

is is there a good list of Rhythm Changes based tunes around somewhere ?

[Pycroft]

do 5 minutes of transcription and you'll hear that bird almost *NEVER* treated the IV chord as min7.

The melody doesn't matter. Unlike show tunes, the melody on bebop was just an excuse to get to the solos.

The IV chord ? You were talking about accenting the G7 with a B natural . Look at the example I posted , the first 16 bars are mostly sophisticated treatments of tonic, dominant and turnaround to IV . No hint of VI7 .