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  1. #1

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    The TrueFire course of one of my favorite guitarists: Larry Carlton's 335 Improv

    I'm going to dive into this course, if anyone is interested in joining me chime on in.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I'm in fep. sounds like fun

  4. #3

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    The course starts with this chord bit which is part of Larry's Rio Samba tune. This is

    ||: F9sus F9 | F9sus F9 | E9sus E9 | F9sus F9 :||

    It looks like he is going to talk of other chords for this progression and soloing concepts of common tones and triad playing over these chords.

    I recorded the first chord bit...

    Last edited by fep; 01-05-2019 at 06:22 PM.
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    Frank (aka fep)

  5. #4

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    I think you are playing F sus to E sus, but you wrote F sus to Eb sus.

    This common Latin jazz sus jam would use the mixolydian scales.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop View Post
    I think you are playing F sus to E sus, but you wrote F sus to Eb sus.

    This common Latin jazz sus jam would use the mixolydian scales.
    Yes I should have written Esus, thank you. I fixed it.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  7. #6

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    Lesson 1-2, expanding comping choices

    Working over the || F9sus4 / F9 / ||

    Carlton has given these comping choices:

    | Eb / F / |

    | Eb / F E |

    | Cm7 / F7 / |

    | Cm9 / F13 / |

    | Cm9 / Cm / |

    I played around with those choices, a bit slower tempo. (Drums are from EZdrummer 2 and I'm playing bass, recorded in Reaper, video recorded with Samsung S8 smart phone, video editor the free VSDC)

    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  8. #7

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    I started today too. Nice Job, Frank, If describing the lessons. I noticed on 1-2 He's also doing that sort of signature Matheny move of Cm9 - F7. Looking forward to the triad study next...

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kaye View Post
    I started today too. Nice Job, Frank, If describing the lessons. I noticed on 1-2 He's also doing that sort of signature Matheny move of Cm9 - F7. Looking forward to the triad study next...
    Yeah, I noticed the Metheny thing too. That's cool to know.

    I'm not sure if I should start a new thread for each chapter, i.e. the new thread would be at 2-1. That way if others wanted to join later they would be able to post comments or performances in the correct area of the course. What do you think?
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  10. #9

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    You know what. I think it would be fine to confine it to this thread. keeps it in one place. but I would encourage late comers to post on earlier topics. If it becomes a mess later we can adjust. having it consolidated at the start may generate more interest too. I'll help you keep this thread going and fresh and we'll see where it takes us.

  11. #10

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    I'm working on the common tones that Larry discusses in lesson 1-2. To that end...

    - I've made a baking track of guitar comping, drums and bass
    - I've read through Larry's playing as notated. That notation sure is sloppy and hard to read.
    - I've practiced a bit just playing over my track

    I'm still thinking of a practice plan. I have had good success with the Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing method of practicing with the connecting game and lick writing. I'm going to do similar for this course.

    Connecting game over Cm to F, also Cm7 to F, also Cm7 to F7, also Eb to F. The connecting came is harder for triads than for 7th chords, at least for me.

    Then I'm going to write a handful of licks that fit to the track.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  12. #11

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    I'm milking this lesson too. on the surface it seems simplistic - connecting triads. Im working on connecting them without making them sound like triads connecting. I hope that makes sense...

    so I'm working on soloing using the common tones, the Eb and F triads, the Cmin and F triads and also workin on inversions of triads.

    I'm taking my time with this. not rushing through and just skimming the top. Sounds like you are too.

    I peaked ahead a few lessons and it's going to get meatier meatier as we go along so I'm looking forward to more.

  13. #12

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    btw - I'm also trying to incorporate those half and full bends in to common tones and triad tones. that really sweetens up the pie. There's a lot to do here

  14. #13

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    Here is my take on using the common tones which are the 7th and 9th of the chords. For the F7 we have the Eb and G or inverted G and Eb which is a 6th. I like to play around with 6ths.

    Bass, comping, solo me. Drums from EZDrummer 2. Samsung smart phone for video, VSDC video editor, Reaper DAW.

    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  15. #14

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    Some notes (no pun intended) I made while viewing lesson 1-5
    Attached Images Attached Images Larry Carlton's 335 Improv study group-335-improv-lesson-1-5-jpg 
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  16. #15

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    okay. here's my 1 minute blast. I'm just using the backing track from trufire so the sound is not that great and just using my phone. Warts and all with a couple of nice moments.

  17. #16

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    and another take for fun...


  18. #17

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    Sounds really good Mike. The guitar sounds really good recorded through the phone. The backing track didn't record as well but the guitar is what matters and the playing is really good.

    I'm still working on the triad bit so you are a bit ahead of me. I'll post something this coming week.

    Cheers.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  19. #18

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    thanks Frank. Yes, I really want to set up a better recording situation for myself so I can make my own backing tracks. I also dont have any video software yet so it's kinda bare bones for now.

    I haven't moved on to the next section yet. but I probably will this week. I got another gig this week backing up somebody and I have 2 weeks to learn 12 tunes and be off book so I going to be a little busy but if you dont mind I'll be taking it a little slower over the next couple if weeks.

    Really enjoying it! Good lessons from the man! I'm encouraged by anything that challenges the way I think and approach tunes. glad we're doing this.

  20. #19

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    Hi Michael, if you do want to improve your recording setup I'm willing to go into some detail of what I have and do. It's not very expensive given you already have a computer. It does take a time investment to get up and running.

    Cheers
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  21. #20

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    that would be helpful. Anything to get me started would be great. just a good basic home working station. unfortunately I've always left the recording process up to others so I'm behind the times in that regard. thank you!

    Mike

  22. #21

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    At a minimum, for audio recording, I think you should have:

    - an audio interface
    - DAW software
    - Headphones
    - A mic and mic stand

    I use this audio interface: Amazon.com: BEHRINGER Audio Interface, 4-Channel (UMC404HD): Musical Instruments

    You can save some money by going for the 2 input version. I like the 4 input version as I have all this plugged in and ready to record 1) Vocal mic, 2) guitar amp mic ,3) bass amp mic, 4) Direct box. It's convenient but I've never used more than 2 inputs at a time.

    I use Reaper as my DAW which is the favorite of many on this forum. It has incredible power and at $65 is a real bargain. It has great tutorial videos, and a great forum to help with the leaning process. REAPER | Audio Production Without Limits

    Cakewalk is also a good and powerful DAW that is now free. If I was starting over I'd be looking into that one also.

    Also, if you use Apple you may already have Garage Band which also will get the job done.

    Given you have some headphones and a mic and mic stand, for about $200 you'll have what you need.

    If you take to it and are like me, you'll eventually want nearfield studio reference monitors which will be a more significant outlay. You can do pretty well for about $250. I'm thinking of getting these myself: Amazon.com: Behringer Truth B2030A High-Resolution, Active 2-Way Reference Studio Monitor Speaker: Musical Instruments

    For video editing I use VSDC which is free. I chose that software as it has the features I want and will run on my laptop. The other video editors I tried kept freezing my computer and where unusable. Download Free Video Editor: best software for video editing.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  23. #22

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    Thanks, Frank! Very helpful!

  24. #23

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    My wife likes to listen to Larry Carlton. Here's the start of the tune, rhythm guitar, lead guitar melody and drum loop. Next I'll come up with bass or move onto the B section. Just wanted to share...

    Box
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  25. #24

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    good start Frank. cant wait to hear the jam on this.

  26. #25

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    Thinking triads. Sometimes playing triads, some playing "off of" triads, some playing pieces of triads and some spread triads.

    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  27. #26

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    The last lesson of the first section of the course. Adding chromatics. Now that I've got my feet wet I can see how this course is laid out. Larry picks one of his tunes, in this first section it's Rio Samba, and he discusses the concepts he uses when comping and soloing over the tune. He then demonstrates each concept.

    So there aren't any actual lines or licks to learn, you just try to use his concepts and come up with your own stuff. At least that is how I'm approaching it. For me this makes it more difficult than the other true fire courses I've done which tell you exactly what to play.

    Here is my shot at applying the chromatic concept. A bit rough but there are a few lines I played that I'd like to develop and memorialize in my lick diary.

    Last edited by fep; 02-06-2019 at 12:42 AM.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  28. #27

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    Sounds good Frank. That's a cool lesson. I got back on it this week a little bit. I'll have some time tomorrow to post up my progress. I went back through the first lessons again to pick up any missed ideas. I really worked on listening to the changes to try and improve my timing. I like the way Larry anticipates the changes and starts his phrasing on the key changes early. I want to get better at that. Get in front of the changes instead of behind, lol

  29. #28

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    Here is a chromatic lick. I played a piece of this when I recorded the last video. I liked so I went back and expanded it and put it in my lick diary.
    Attached Images Attached Images Larry Carlton's 335 Improv study group-chromo-lick-jpg 
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  30. #29

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    I think I got worse, Frank. I hit some kind of wall. which usually means I'm over playing - trying to do too much instead of listening. Gonna back it down a little bit and see If I can just get a sweet little version. I cleaned up my guitar and trying to do a little cleaner version. Having fun but its clam season right now.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kaye View Post
    I think I got worse, Frank. I hit some kind of wall. which usually means I'm over playing - trying to do too much instead of listening. Gonna back it down a little bit and see If I can just get a sweet little version. I cleaned up my guitar and trying to do a little cleaner version. Having fun but its clam season right now.
    Yeah Michael, I feel that way often myself. Next for me is I'm going to just record the melody bit for burnable
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  32. #31

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    Hey Frank how are you doing? I think I've taken lesson 1 about as far as I want to at this point so I'm wrapping it up. Sorry for the long rambling video. It's just nice have some semblance of contact with others here beside the written word so I made this video as a wrap up of what we covered in the first section.


    Let me know how you're doing on this, Frank. I know you've put a lot of work in to this.

    By the way, I don't know if your interested, but Matt started a "patterns for jazz" thread which I'm sure you've seen and I want to do that one too. But I am staying here and working on this one as well. You might like that thread too.

    Mike


  33. #32

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    Hey Mike, Really great video summary and wrap up. Somehow I missed your last post in my new post feed and I am just seeing this today. I like those suspended chords. Really nice lines too. I think you are really capturing the Larry concepts and spirit (5:15 to 5:20 brings to mind Jerry Garcia, Jerry and Larry, similar concepts). I've got to do a bit of review like that, it's been too long.

    I'm still working on this too, and as you saw also joined the other group.

    The melody of Lesson 2.

    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  34. #33

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    Great, Frank! This is a lot of fun. I haven't started lesson 2 yet but I will here shortly. This one will be really interesting, I can tell.

    See you over at the other thread too. That one is a riot. great bunch of guys and it's going to be a good ride for sure. I'm having a blast there as well.

  35. #34

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    Comping over a static Db7#9 chord. In this lesson we use all these minor third movements for variation of comping choices.

    Triads: Db E G Bb
    The 5th and 7th: for the chords Db E G Bb
    The 3rd and the 7th: for the chords Db E G Bb
    13th chords: Db13 E13 G13 Bb13

    Here's my exercise experimenting with these ideas:

    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  36. #35

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    Hi Frank

    Thanks for the rig rundown :-) What do you use to create notation like the notes you attached to an earlier post in this thread?

    Sorry the quote does not contain your pic for some reason...

    SJ

    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    Some notes (no pun intended) I made while viewing lesson 1-5

  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by starjasmine View Post
    Hi Frank

    Thanks for the rig rundown :-) What do you use to create notation like the notes you attached to an earlier post in this thread?

    Sorry the quote does not contain your pic for some reason...

    SJ
    I'm using MuseScore for the notation and it is free.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    I'm using MuseScore for the notation and it is free.
    Cool! Thanks - I'll check it out. That's a lot more legible than my chicken-scratching!