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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    OK, I had to go home this afternoon and thought I would just shoot the "before" video starting on the scales. After all it all about one take and no editing if I'm going to be honest about it. It is really hard to post a raw video with flubs and all!!! Makes me cringe to watch it, but that is the point.

    Good job, Rhett!

    Are you meaning to play triplets?

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  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    OK, I had to go home this afternoon and thought I would just shoot the "before" video starting on the scales. After all it all about one take and no editing if I'm going to be honest about it. It is really hard to post a raw video with flubs and all!!! Makes me cringe to watch it, but that is the point.

    Hi Rlrhett,
    Some friendly feedback: The scales should be played as eighth notes, not triplets.

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  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    Here is my take on this. This is a way of playing I7 chord into VI7 chord that addresses a few ways the harmony of bars 7 and 8 of blues is played:
    | I7 | VI7 |
    | I7 | I7 VI7|
    | I7 | iii (minor or half diminished) VI7 |
    or even
    | iii (minor or half diminished) | VI7 |

    Playing the way BH shows addresses all of them reasonably well. Like I said this is my take on it, others may disagree.
    Also my guess is he’s trying to do it with as few scales as possible. So doesn’t want to add an A7 scale just for one bar if there’s a simpler way largely based on the scales already in use.

  5. #54
    Thanks for kicking off the vids!

    well I did my session and ended up right where I said, 170 bpm.

    I did rhythm changes and blues in Bb in the 5th position area, and just stuck with that for the duration. started at 100 bpm and worked up by 10s.

    For the one position, however, I practiced the outlines 2 ways: all highest register scales available in that position, and then all lowest possible scales available in that position. Some of course, only had 1 option.

    Speed has never really been my thing, I think I might be disappointed if I keep my goal at 200 bpm...not sure.

    well back to practice my other shit, later!
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  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by David B View Post
    Hi Rlrhett,
    Some friendly feedback: The scales should be played as eighth notes, not triplets.
    Does it matter? Not snark, serious question. I can try to do it both ways, but I am concurrently practicing Mike Longo's hemiola and rhythm. Seemed like a natural way to phrase it.

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    Does it matter? Not snark, serious question. I can try to do it both ways, but I am concurrently practicing Mike Longo's hemiola and rhythm. Seemed like a natural way to phrase it.
    One consideration is, when you ascend in 8ths chord tones land on downbeats. Playing triplets this way doesn't get the chord tones on down beats consistently.
    I think playing in triplets is a nice variation (among many). But it may not be the best way to hear the changes through the scales.

  8. #57

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    You should play them as 8th notes.

    Triplets are embellishments in the line, not the main substance of the line.

    There are obviously counter examples in real music, but that's how we always practice this stuff...

    (If we are doing the Barry thing - you can practice whatever you want of course ;-))

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    Here is my take on this. This is a way of playing I7 chord into VI7 chord that addresses a few ways the harmony of bars 7 and 8 of blues is played:
    | I7 | VI7 |
    | I7 | I7 VI7|
    | I7 | iii (minor or half diminished) VI7 |
    or even
    | iii (minor or half diminished) | VI7 |

    Playing the way BH shows addresses all of them reasonably well. Like I said this is my take on it, others may disagree.
    Thanks Tal, makes perfect sense to me. One beauty of Barry's system is how much one thing can cover.

    And we need a Barry Harris "post icon"
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  10. #59

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    OK, straight 8ths. I want to be consistent. This is my "before" video. I hope in my "after" video unicorns will weep at the sheer beauty, and and no less than Barry Harris himself will call me up to congratulate me.

    BTW, I'm thinking this thread should be moved to the "Getting Started" section. No? Maybe Dirk could move it?


  11. #60

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    I actually think that’s a pretty nice swing feel.

    Swing feel is a flavour. When you practice those ML exercises you are locking into these other rhythms, so the hemiola flavour and the upbeats etc come through in the line.

    All you have to do it not try to swing and it happens.

    Trying to swing is the worse thing anyone can do if they want to swing!

  12. #61
    good start, Rhett. Man, I'd love to try out one your guitars someday (you make them right?)

    Today I did Rhythm changes and Blues in G in 4th-ish position, both the upper register and lower as before. I can baareelly scrape by at 180 bpm. started at 100 bpm and worked up by 10s again
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  13. #62
    Man, that major seventh!

    I can play that blues at about 200 pretty well if I don't have to get that thing. I can play it WITH it, if I'm consciously thinking pretty hard about it. Have to practice learning to hear that one naturally...

    I can almost do better on the RC, because it doesn't that "form" wrinkle, at least for me. Anyway...

  14. #63
    well you got a month to iron it out Matt.. youll definitely get it eapecially since you’re already hitting your speed goal. Once I reach 200 i think ill start taking it up through the positions withtout stopping if i can (or in your case weird christian octave things KIDDING)
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  15. #64
    matt, does 1 of the maj scales get you more than the other in the blues? i.e the turnaround to 2 vs the turnaround to 1
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  16. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    matt, does 1 of the maj scales get you more than the other in the blues? i.e the turnaround to 2 or the turnaround to 1
    Not necessarily. Just if I stop consciously thinking about it.

    Just need to practice it. Too many pretty ballads and chord melody I guess.

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    well you got a month to iron it out Matt.. youll definitely get it eapecially since you’re already hitting your speed goal. Once I reach 200 i think ill start taking it up through the positions withtout stopping if i can (or in your case weird christian octave things KIDDING)

    Is 200 bpm a common goal or is it a personal thing?
    I’d love to participate, but I won’t be near a guitar for several weeks. Will join when I’m back practicing again. Till then, will continue to transcribe Barry

  18. #67
    just a coincidence that matt and i both picked 200 as our speed goal
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  19. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by tamirgal View Post
    Is 200 bpm a common goal or is it a personal thing?
    I’d love to participate, but I won’t be near a guitar for several weeks. Will join when I’m back practicing again. Till then, will continue to transcribe Barry
    what are you talking about you transcribe bebop solos without an instrument in your hands!?!
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  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    what are you talking about you transcribe bebop solos without an instrument in your hands!?!

    Luckily Transcribe! has a handy piano keyboard to get the task done

  21. #70
    well you carry on and i will continue to enjoy the fruits of your labor
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  22. #71

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    Play it on your instrument you plonker

  23. #72
    dear diary,

    today i worked on rhythm changes and blues in F in 5th-ish position, upper and lower register, starting at 100 bpm. I actually did 180 way more solid than last time, and 190 doesn't seem far out of reach. I tried 200 for kicks and that's still pretty fast-- I can barely play one scale that fast.
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  24. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Play it on your instrument you plonker
    he said he won't be near a guitar for several weeks, might as well transcribe. I'm sure he learns them on guitar
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  25. #74

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    Today I got through both blues and Rhythm in all keys, so I started doing the same with drop 2 chord shapes. Made it about 1/2 way around the circle. This could really help to learn to improv chord melody off the cuff. Also looked ahead and started learning 5 4 3 2.

    Man, this stuff is fun
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  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Play it on your instrument you plonker
    I’ll refrain from practicing for a couple of days if you promise to call me plonker.

  27. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    he said he won't be near a guitar for several weeks, might as well transcribe. I'm sure he learns them on guitar
    Cool.

    I’ve done transcriptions away from my instrument just checking to see if I wrote down the phrases right. It’s good ear training if you don’t lean on the piano or guitar to get every note.

  28. #77

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    Everyone on this thread seem to have goals, my current goal is to finish ~10 transcriptions of Barry solos, half of which would be Blues tunes. I don't plan to learn these solos note for note on the guitar, but I do plan to extract motive, patterns and licks, and add those to my practice plan.
    I already learned a great deal so far, even without my instrument. I learned that the important arpeggios for the dominant scale are indeed important. I learned he has more important arpeggios for the major scale. I learned some more mini motives that can be added to his 5432 phrases. I learned he likes to hit the b6 note on the dominant scale (he has some pet licks that nicely bring out this note). And In general I feel I get to know him better this way

    I think it's not too bad for a plonker.. (have no idea what that means )

    Cheers,
    Tamir

  29. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Cool.

    I’ve done transcriptions away from my instrument just checking to see if I wrote down the phrases right. It’s good ear training if you don’t lean on the piano or guitar to get every note.
    I write the phrase inside guitar pro (or sibelius, whatever), then I hit play, and the software play the phrase for me. That's pretty cool. Actually the most difficult bit for me is to get the rhythm written right.

  30. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by tamirgal View Post
    Everyone on this thread seem to have goals, my current goal is to finish ~10 transcriptions of Barry solos, half of which would be Blues tunes. I don't plan to learn these solos note for note on the guitar, but I do plan to extract motive, patterns and licks, and add those to my practice plan.
    I already learned a great deal so far, even without my instrument. I learned that the important arpeggios for the dominant scale are indeed important. I learned he has more important arpeggios for the major scale. I learned some more mini motives that can be added to his 5432 phrases. I learned he likes to hit the b6 note on the dominant scale (he has some pet licks that nicely bring out this note). And In general I feel I get to know him better this way

    I think it's not too bad for a plonker.. (have no idea what that means )

    Cheers,
    Tamir
    I'd love to see the motives that fit with 5 4 3 2!
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  31. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by tamirgal
    I learned he likes to hit the b6 note on the dominant scale (he has some pet licks that nicely bring out this note).
    Barrys dominant/diminished scale is 1 2 3 4 5 b6 b7 7 1, thus alternating C7 and Bdim chords. Took me a while to find it as it is not in the first BH Workshop book.
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  32. #81
    did Eb blues and rhythm changes in 5th-ish position. So that's 4 of my 5 positions now. same as before worked up to 180, tried really hard at 190 but couldn't keep up, and ran the scales with four beats rest or so in between at 200.

    you guys see Chris put up a new TILF Barry Harris vid? about triplets

    edit: did the upper and lower register of the position as well, i find this very solidifying of the position
    Last edited by joe2758; 09-14-2018 at 08:11 PM.
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  33. #82

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    I like Chris’s scales on Donna Lee, I’ve been playing those this evening (quite slowly though).

    Unfortunately cut my finger making sandwiches today, now have a big plaster on my LH third finger which is a bit of a nuisance when playing!

  34. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    ...... (quite slowly though).
    if you say by quite slowly you mean 200 bpm i'm going to quit.
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  35. #84

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    No it’s more like 120 at the moment!

  36. #85

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    Right here’s a practice suggestion for y’all. I used to get roasted on the scale outlines but I practiced this for a few months and now I can do it as of about 2014

    1) Can you play individual scales 1-7-1 at tempo - yes or no?

    If yes proceed to next point
    If no, practice scales individually until you can do it

    2) can you map the scales over the changes of any random tune and know how it all works?

    If yes proceed to next point
    If no, practice doing this - away from the instrument is fine

    3) play the scales in tempo (200+) but leave a gap as you move to the next one - i.e. don’t try to play everything in time yet. Do a different tune each day to develop the flexibility.

    The 1-7-1 thing has at least a quarter notes thinking space built in, but this may not be enough at first.

    4) practice every new tune at tempo building up the way Barry does in class

    Slow metronome practice is good for some stuff, but otoh to play and think fast you need to practice it at speed.

  37. #86
    thanks Christian, sounds like i’m on the right track!
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  38. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post

    3) play the scales in tempo (200+) but leave a gap as you move to the next one - i.e. don’t try to play everything in time yet. Do a different tune each day to develop the flexibility.

    The 1-7-1 thing has at least a quarter notes thinking space built in, but this may not be enough at first.
    .
    What you talking bout, Willis? Are you suggesting that if you can play for the first two bars don’t force the third if it’s going to make you stumble, wait for the fourth?

  39. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr View Post
    What you talking bout, Willis? Are you suggesting that if you can play for the first two bars don’t force the third if it’s going to make you stumble, wait for the fourth?
    No. Just have a little pause to have a think and get your hands in position. then play the third bar when you are good and ready.

    Many people try to play in tempo before they are ready. It's OK to practice out of time - with little pauses - until you are ready to put it together.

    You are thinking in modules not individual notes. You prepare the modules, prepare their application, then practice linking them together, then practice running everything together in time.

  40. #89

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    OK here's a video of me to put it together on the bebop mount Everest that is George Shearing's Conception.

    Explanation is not the clearest. Chords are as follows

    AABA

    A section

    | Ebm7b5 | Ab7b9 | Db^7 Bm7 | A^7 Ab^7 |
    | Abm7 Db7 | Gb7 F7 | Bb7 A7 | Ab7 G7 |
    | F#m7 B7 | E^7 A^7 | Em7 Ab7 | Db^7 ||

    B section

    | F#m7 | B7b9b5 | E^7 F#m7 | Abm7 Db7 |
    | Gm7 C7 | F#m7 B7 | Em7 | A7 |

    Somebody wanted me to post a video of me practicing this stuff so here it so you can enjoy my dirty laundry in public ;-)

    This tune is tough on the outlining. Lots of 1 2 3 5.

  41. #90

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  42. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    2) can you map the scales over the changes of any random tune and know how it all works?
    I don't know what BH has folks play on measure long or longer half diminished phrases. I'm working on What is This Thing Called Love? What scale do you play for G half dim amd D half dim? Ascending or descending?
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  43. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petimar View Post
    I don't know what BH has folks play on measure long or longer half diminished phrases. I'm working on What is This Thing Called Love? What scale do you play for G half dim amd D half dim? Ascending or descending?
    I think Chris discusses some options for this tune here:


  44. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petimar View Post
    I don't know what BH has folks play on measure long or longer half diminished phrases. I'm working on What is This Thing Called Love? What scale do you play for G half dim amd D half dim? Ascending or descending?
    m7b5 is a dominant chord a major third lower, because the m7b5 is 3 5 b7 and 9 of a dominant 9th chord.

    So on the Gm7b5 I play Eb dominant and on the Dm7b5 I play Bb dominant

  45. #94

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    You can also view them as m6 chords with the 6th in the bass.

    Under no circumstances view them as m7b5 or half dim chords. Life is too short.

  46. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    m7b5 is a dominant chord a major third lower, because the m7b5 is 3 5 b7 and 9 of a dominant 9th chord.

    So on the Gm7b5 I play Eb dominant and on the Dm7b5 I play Bb dominant
    Do you give the chord tones of the dominant the same weight when playing over the m7b5 as you would over the dominant itself?

  47. #96
    you guys still plugging away at the lesson?
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  48. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    you guys still plugging away at the lesson?
    I've been kind of slammed the last week.

    I've played through here and there. I don't have as much technical problem as just learning these things themselves. More like hearing form and pattern at tempo. I can kind of do the dominant vs major thing by ear at 180, but at 200 I'm actually thinking, and not fast enough. So, it's very good practice for that for me.

    I think what Christian was talking about above is good practice. That would really isolate whether it's a technical problem versus more of a form problem. With the blues progression I mainly practice from bar five on, then put it together. The blues, to me, always presents a quintessential "form problem", if you don't break it up. If you play straight through every time, you'll always be exponentially better at the beginning bets, simply because you play them more times.

    Anyway, I am only doing the lower octave patterns for the ones which have two octaves, but I'm doing five positions. Just don't have the time or interest to do both right now. I think honestly if I get the lower octaves together, I'll be able to do the higher without too much extra work. Generally spend more time in that upper octave and position anyway.

    Why don't we put in some short-term benchmarks just for fun and to keep interest on-going? What are there about three weeks? I need to go back and look. Could make this week "170 week", then 180 the next, and and then a final version at the end. Also, if everyone's aiming for about the same easy tempo, it's not a competition or anything. "How many ways can you play assignments at 170?" ....kind of thing. I think I could do the upper octave thing at that tempo probably too.

  49. #98
    yeah mine is definitely a technical issue unfortunately-- but that's what I get for never attempting to play at challenging speeds
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  50. #99

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    Plugging away. I’ll do a one week video for s&@$s and giggles.


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  51. #100
    I'll make a vid if I hit 200, otherwise I'll post one at the end of the semester or whatever you call it
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