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  1. #551
    Y’all see his latest vid? cool bud powell pedal point thing and a little fluttery triad thing

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #552

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I think learning to slur in a jazz way is helpful - hammering and pulling off on the off beats onto the beat.

    Hear the phrase. That’s really important. If you can hear it clearly on your head it’s easier to play.
    I’ve been playing along with Barry, phrase by individual phrase from Hot House on his “Plays Tadd Dameron” album, in a loop, and I’ve found I can’t replicate the dynamics of a Barry phrase when I pick every note—I must hammer-on and pull-off to find the right balance between the loud notes and the quiet notes.

  4. #553
    practice log: boredom can spark creativity

  5. #554
    practice log: did pretty good at 170 today

  6. #555

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758
    practice log: did pretty good at 170 today
    That's way to light for a man your height.

  7. #556

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    Yeah. I haven't been at 170 since my late teens.

  8. #557
    played through at 180 yesterday-- tried 190

  9. #558

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    I pick every note unless I want a specific articulation.

    What did Peter and Adam from You'll Hear It say?

    "Number one on the list is focus on your BREATHING"

    I would add what Chris '77 said--but I would go a step further (yeah, "mr. what's wrong with the internet"--I'm one upping you )

    Be strategic with your metronome--if you practice with one (I do). Put the click on every two measures. Here's some maths to help if you need to figure it out...

    every two measures means 8 beats

    let's say you want to play at... 200bpm

    divide 8 into 200 (200/8)

    and we get 25

    So you would set your metronobile to 25 bpm--get a metronomy that can go this low--trust me, it's F-U-N

    Now clap every half note.

    Then every measure.

    Once you get comfy, you can clap on the and's of 4 or something KOOOL like that.

    Oh, and one last thing-a-ma-bobber, get to the point where you DON'T COUNT (bold face still screws with my computer...arghy wargh)

    After all that--pick up your guitar and start practicing those BH lines.

    Call me crazy, but it werks. I'm a nut... maybe a cashew this time of year

  10. #559

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    I would add what Chris '77 said--but I would go a step further (yeah, "mr. what's wrong with the internet"--I'm one upping you )
    Sorry man, don’t have time to get involved in such petty contests. Too busy cutting my next album in a single day. ;-)

  11. #560

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    Chris'77

    I was taking the piss (did I use that right? My room mate used to say it to me all the time)

    Joking around. You raised a good idea, so I added a little of how I understood that concept.

    gnome what I mean?

  12. #561

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    Chris'77

    I was taking the piss (did I use that right? My room mate used to say it to me all the time)

    Joking around. You raised a good idea, so I added a little of how I understood that concept.

    gnome what I mean?
    I know I was joking too

  13. #562

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    That is the correct use of ‘taking the piss’ btw

  14. #563

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    yay

    Now all I'll have to do is have a million and one conversations about Brexit and I'll truly be British.

    Or you could have a million and one conversations about Donny T and you'll officially be American... oh wait... flying babies...

  15. #564

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    yay

    Now all I'll have to do is have a million and one conversations about Brexit and I'll truly be British.

    Or you could have a million and one conversations about Donny T and you'll officially be American... oh wait... flying babies...
    No. We. Don’t. Talk. About. Brexit.

    (We have the BBC for that.)

    The most British thing is to look a bit nervous and worried, but make small talk about the weather .

  16. #565

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    Barry's 4 dim 6 scales (when does he say to use case 3 and 4?)

    1. Bb Major : Bb C D Eb F Gb G A
    1. Bb- : Bb C Db F Gb G A
    3. Bb7 : Bb C D Eb F Gb Ab A
    4. Bb7 b5: Bb C D Eb Fb Gb Ab A



    I need some help applying Barry's 6th dim block chord scales to different changes. In this example I have listed the changes and then the scales I consider that Barry would teach. Can someone help me or correct me for my solutions for bar 2 , 4 , and 8 ?

    "A Time For Love" changes:

    || Bb maj | A-7b5 D7b9 | G-7 | C7 #4 |
    | C-7 | C-/Bb | A-7b5 | D7b9 ||

    My block chord scale solutions:

    || Bb maj scale | think Eb-6 or what? | Bb maj scale | G-6 , any other option? |
    | Eb maj scale | Eb maj scale | C-6 scale | Eb-6 scale, any other option? |
    Last edited by rintincop; 06-30-2019 at 04:37 PM.

  17. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    Barry's 4 dim 6 scales (when does he say to use case 3 and 4?)

    1. Bb Major : Bb C D Eb F Gb G A
    1. Bb- : Bb C Db F Gb G A
    3. Bb7 : Bb C D Eb F Gb Ab A4. Bb7 b5: Bb C D Eb Fb Gb Ab A


    I need some help applying Barry's 6th dim block chord scales to different changes. In this example I have listed the changes and then the scales I consider that Barry would teach. Can someone help me or correct me for my solutions for bar 2 , 4 , and 8 ?

    "A Time For Love" changes:

    || Bb maj | A-7b5 D7b9 | G-7 | C7 #4 |
    | C-7 | C-/Bb | A-7b5 | D7b9 ||

    My block chord scale solutions:

    || Bb maj scale | think Eb-6 or what? | Bb maj scale | G-6 , any other option? |
    | Eb maj scale | Eb maj scale | C-6 scale | Eb-6 scale, any other option? |
    unfortunately, i have never found examples of dominant/dim or the dom b5 dim in the educational material.

    However the b5 dim scale i have found to be very easy and natural to apply. start by using it as an alternative to the altered application of minor/dim

  18. #567

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    I can't remember which episode, but Chris was talking about having never used the dom7dim chord scale and said "let me try it here". Then commenced to use it among other things. His reaction was a big "YEAH". You can tell he liked it.

    I have a feeling it's just like any other chord scale, useable in several places. We just have to find where. My first though is as tritone sub just like the single note dominant scale. Maybe as "family" as well?

    EDIT: I just watched episode 23 where he looks at the first 4 measures of All The Things You Are. At 12:43, he briefly mentions EbDom7din scale and Eb7b7dim scale as possibilities against Eb7.
    Last edited by Petimar; 06-30-2019 at 04:52 PM.

  19. #568
    ill check it out, pete.

    I hit 190 in the D shape today..did some sloppy 200 work.

    At these tempos they really start sounding like one thing and less “notey” as a teacher once called it

  20. #569
    time to switch gear and put chords in the forefront with episode 6. of course we’ve all been practicing these, but this is the month we physically dig in and shed.


    My goal is the four scales of chords in drop 2 and drop 3 on 2 string sets each. I will skip the bottom string set for drop 2 as i never really use them, they slow me down, and i like my practice to be as focused as possible.

    Speed goal i’ll say 100 bpm quarter notes

  21. #570

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758
    t................................................

    ....................................... I will skip the bottom string set for drop 2 as i never really use them, they slow me down, and i like my practice to be as focused as possible.

    .........................................


    Joe: perhaps try the Drop 2 No Tenor voice on the bottom 4 strings. I find it good for speed and they are an easy grab and I'm lazy.

  22. #571
    messing around with the dominant/dim scale i think the key is playing with the families. It’s easy to do since it shares the same diminished.

    it sounds cool to go up the scale but play the same inversion each time so you go through the family in order

  23. #572

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    What does Barry mean by "the hinge" at the end of his Giant Steps video?

  24. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    What does Barry mean by "the hinge" at the end of his Giant Steps video?
    where in the vid, rintin?

  25. #574

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  26. #575

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_oz

    Well done! I really enjoyed that!

  27. #576

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    Quote Originally Posted by tamirgal
    Well done! I really enjoyed that!
    I appreciate it, thank you!

  28. #577

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    I am working on specific tunes now using Barry Harris ideas.

    Lately learning I'm Old Fashioned. Using Barrys single note improv ideas working on lines and octaves. Using his harmonic ideas I'm working on playing the melody in CM, improvising CM solos and comping using his ideas. It is quite a workout learning each new tune this way, but when I've done this on each tune for a couple of weeks, it feels very good and in control. It feels good to have enough control of the style to do at least this much

    Think I'm going to stay with this method of learning for a good period of time.

  29. #578
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Yeah - I don’t know how any other Barry heads feel about this, but so many of the applications are about resolving dominants into target chords. In combination with the end phrases I think you dig out workable bop vocab quickly this way.

    Let the dominant dominate as Barry says.

    It’s not the only thing, but it is quite a lot of it.
    Reg talks about this in on of his videos, when talking about enclosures. Kind of an off- hand comment...third-person, as a non-strictly-bebopper. Something like: "That's what Bebop is. It's mostly dominant approaches"...
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 08-06-2019 at 07:49 AM.

  30. #579
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Hear the phrase. That’s really important. If you can hear it clearly on your head it’s easier to play.
    This is a big one which I have come to myself recently more and more. I find that if I'm having trouble playing something in a given pattern/ position, it helps a lot to just take it to an easier place and simply play till I can hear it better. The fingers know more than we think.

    Anyway, I've been doing dominant scales in thirds with half step approaches this week. Not being able tho hear things is a bigger obstacle than just technical. The way Barry has this laid out, it's a polyrhythm with eighth notes in alternating strong/weak beats of 3's. I finally figured out that by changing the rhythm to shed it, I could immediately play it better and get back to the "real rhythm". So, a completely different accommodation than the first one I mentioned, but they both have the "hearing" aspect in common.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 08-06-2019 at 11:10 AM.

  31. #580

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    Have you got the 8-7-6 phrases?

  32. #581
    I've been doing Harris exercises the last two or three weeks , and I've come back to something I've noticed multiple times in the past: for whatever reason, the "halfstep rules" lines are harder on my left hand then just about anything I've ever tried to learn to play.

    I've done a lot of technical stuff the last two or three years, more so then any other time in my playing . I've done all this with stretch fingerings, and I've had to learn to pace things and take care myself in the process.

    Anyway, I just don't know why this one particular thing aggravates my left hand fingers more than anything else. I mean, much more than the chromatic approach in thirds , stretch arpeggios , everything else.

    Every time I come back to it, it's slightly better , I guess because I have slightly better technique with it or something? Still though, even the patterns which are "in position" aren't something my hand likes that much. I've basically chalked this up to something that I can reasonably run through in all positions once or twice a day and no more for the time being.

    BTW, I've tried the Ronnie Ben-Hur fingerings and many other variations over the last couple of years, on-and-off-again. The last couple of weeks, I've learned the dvd material up to the "chords" (four-note arp scales on the dominant) in 7 positions, thirds approached by half step in 7 etc etc. Anyway, I would have assumed these other two exercises to be much harder on the hands, just looking at it, but it's just not the case.

    Anyway, I was curious as to whether or not anyone else had experienced this. Thanks.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 08-17-2019 at 06:08 PM.

  33. #582

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    And if you run scales without half steps at the same speed, it doesn’t hurt your hand?

  34. #583
    Quote Originally Posted by tamirgal
    And if you run scales without half steps at the same speed, it doesn’t hurt your hand?
    No. Not really.

    I think it's probably just about getting used to them. Just slightly annoying...

  35. #584

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    Things I learned from Barry Harris Study Group-z-rhythmsolo_barrobarry-harris-jpg

  36. #585

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    No. Not really.

    I think it's probably just about getting used to them. Just slightly annoying...
    Have you tried using the "no little finger, thumb hooked over the neck" style? I've been playing this way more and more over the past few years, it requires some shifting that wasn't intuitive for me at first, but it's way easier on the left hand.

    my "serious" instrument these days is upright bass, and I take lessons from a classical bassist, and they are adamant about not ever stretching to catch a note, but rather,
    .

    I basically never "reach" or stretch in my left hand these days, and I never feel any soreness in my left hand anymore as a result.

  37. #586
    Quote Originally Posted by pcsanwald
    Have you tried using the "no little finger, thumb hooked over the neck" style? I've been playing this way more and more over the past few years, it requires some shifting that wasn't intuitive for me at first, but it's way easier on the left hand.

    my "serious" instrument these days is upright bass, and I take lessons from a classical bassist, and they are adamant about not ever stretching to catch a note, but rather,
    .

    I basically never "reach" or stretch in my left hand these days, and I never feel any soreness in my left hand anymore as a result.
    Yeah. I don't really see it as a stretch issue. It's less stretchy than a lot of other things, and probably more "shifty"...

  38. #587

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcsanwald
    Have you tried using the "no little finger, thumb hooked over the neck" style? I've been playing this way more and more over the past few years, it requires some shifting that wasn't intuitive for me at first, but it's way easier on the left hand.

    my "serious" instrument these days is upright bass, and I take lessons from a classical bassist, and they are adamant about not ever stretching to catch a note, but rather,
    .

    I basically never "reach" or stretch in my left hand these days, and I never feel any soreness in my left hand anymore as a result.
    Agreed. You shouldn’t need to stretch when playing melodically.

  39. #588

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    my wife was out of town, and so, exciting person that I am, I took down Barry's second chorus also. He plays some longer lines in this one, good stuff!

    Barry.pdf

  40. #589

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    Which album is the solo from? Thank you for the second chorus, very useful to have examples of his actual phrases. Someone should make s book of BH transcriptions since his methods are so widely studied. It helps to see his ideas put into play.
    Last edited by rintincop; 08-20-2019 at 02:11 PM.

  41. #590

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    Question. What scale does BH teach for bar 2 of Have You Met Miss Jones, for the F#dim 7 chord?
    I presume it would be descend from the 7th degree of the F7 scale and end on a F#. Correct?

  42. #591

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    Question. What scale does BH teach for bar 2 of Have You Met Miss Jones, for the F#dim 7 chord?
    I presume it would be descend from the 7th degree of the F7 scale and end on a F#. Correct?
    I misread this when I first answered it. My bet for the first 2 measures is F major up and down to the third of D (note F#).
    Last edited by Petimar; 08-24-2019 at 01:24 PM.

  43. #592

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    Did BH ever say play a diminished scale over a diminished chord or does he reserve the diminished scale for deriving chord harmony movements over a dominant b9 chord ?

  44. #593

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    Did BH ever say play a diminished scale over a diminished chord or does he reserve the diminished scale for deriving chord harmony movements over a dominant b9 chord ?
    I don’t think I’ve heard him talk about using the diminished scale directly for line construction or harmony. He seems to regard it as a theoretical concept more than a resource for harmony or improvisation afaik, but i could be mistaken.

    On diminished chords we use the I or IV 6-dim scale. Covers the options.

    So on F#o7 C/G, we actually use G maj-6 dim starting on the diminished. And the G6 sounds like a Cmaj9 on a C bass.

    He does talk about diminished relationships - brothers and sisters.

    Anyone?

  45. #594

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    Question. What scale does BH teach for bar 2 of Have You Met Miss Jones, for the F#dim 7 chord?
    I presume it would be descend from the 7th degree of the F7 scale and end on a F#. Correct?
    I don’t have this first hand from Barry but I would probably view it as part of the the Bb6 - dim. Reason:

    F#o7 is setting up Gm7
    Gm7 = Bb6

    If we start on the dim notes and then go into Gm7/Bb6 it works really good.

    Anyone?

  46. #595

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    Things I learned from Barry Harris Study Group-z-rhythmsolo_barrobarry-harris-jpg
    No G7 in bar 1 of the A section. Barry is VERY specific about that sort of thing (basically Parker never played it.)

    Also the changes you have here are kind of overcomplicated if we are relating to the lines. For instance here it’s always Eb7 for the whole of bar 6 of the A. In fact in the general Parker discography on rhythm tunes apparently rarely there’s a Ebm or Eo7 in the solos. Heads are a different matter.

    This is something that the Omnibook is very good on, Btw, with the chord symbols.

    Plus it’s always worth repeating Barry says play on F7 over the whole of Cm F7.

  47. #596

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    Christian,

    The larger font chord symbols and brackets were intended to show the important "fewest chords" thinking.
    You make a very good point, Parker never seemed to outline G-7 or G7 in the second half of measure one.
    However, chord compers and bass players often do tend to play G7 on beats 3 and 4 of bar one.
    It's even specified in the Howard Reese Book (w Barry Harris) Book 1 on page 37:
    It says: Rhythm Changes
    | I vi | ii V | iii vi | ii V |
    | I iii dim | IV7 #iv dim | I vi | ii V |

    Regarding the diminished scale for improv, Barry does say use the diminished to solo over a dominant seventh chord (see p. 40 Book 2, Howard Reese).
    Last edited by rintincop; 08-24-2019 at 01:28 PM.

  48. #597

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    If you look through the YouTube comments for this video, someone has transcribed the whole lesson (in 2 parts) and provided 2 google drive links to pdfs you can save.
    Its took some digging, but here they are:

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=17utBoVRMq6eXpruVxfJLEJPHINEVtwST

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eismLD0eRHtca2y8w68Z630JIU0jnI2F

  49. #598

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    Which album is the solo from? Thank you for the second chorus, very useful to have examples of his actual phrases. Someone should make s book of BH transcriptions since his methods are so widely studied. It helps to see his ideas put into play.
    It's from "At The Jazz Workshop" with the impossibly great rhythm section of Sam Jones and Louis Hayes. I do kinda find it interesting that these forum discussions tend to fixate a lot on the theoretical aspects of Barry's methods, but, in his NYC workshops, Barry plays, sometimes quite a bit. I think it's really important to pair this kind of theoretical learning with actually listening to, and to some degree analyzing, the actual music that results from this. The reason I wanted to share this is because I hope this work is useful for others, and I do think it's a good reminder to check out the music; it's all there. As much as I love and respect the "things I learned from barry harris" person that does those videos, the big thing you miss there is hearing a bebop master like Barry actually use this material in practice, which you definitely get in Barry's classes.

  50. #599

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    Christian,

    The larger font chord symbols and brackets were intended to show the important "fewest chords" thinking.
    You make a very good point, Parker never seemed to outline G-7 or G7 in the second half of measure one.
    However, chord compers and bass players often do tend to play G7 on beats 3 and 4 of bar one.
    It's even specified in the Howard Reese Book (w Barry Harris) Book 1 on page 37:
    It says: Rhythm Changes
    | I vi | ii V | iii vi | ii V |
    | I iii dim | IV7 #iv dim | I vi | ii V |

    Regarding the diminished scale for improv, Barry does say use the diminished to solo over a dominant seventh chord (see p. 40 Book 2, Howard Reese).
    Can’t see the G7 in that? Sorry if am being a bit dim.

    Don’t confuse soloing and accompanying harmony. I know this is tough to understand from the point of view of most other pedagogy where it’s seen as the same thing. The soloing changes are heavily simplified from what you might see as a typical accompanying part.

    In rather the same way that we don’t have to think about IIm7, we don’t have to worry about any of that stuff. That’s for the rhythm section to decide how they dress up the chords. We can dress things up totally differently in the solo line.

    Including playing an E in bar 6, say.

    So it’s up to the person writing out the chart to decide what the chord symbols represent.

    To my mind I would want them to represent as close as possible what Barry was playing in the solo line. But looking at the chart again I see what you were trying to do.

    Are you think of a bassline running G B on beats 3 and 4? You can in this case think of the B as an approach tone on the upbeat. So it’s not really harmonic.

    In the same way we can take or leave the idea of the typical bassline Bb Ab G B as implying Bb7 in the first bar (or even Ab) - or the C E F A in the following bar as implying C7 G7 - the comper or soloist can highlight these extra changes if they want, but really they are passing tones.

    Some versions of rhythm changes have a Bo7 on beat 3, bar 1 which is relayed to G7b9 of course. Nothing wrong with that - but this is not how Parker played it, and it’s a mistake people often make when trying to emulate his style. I learned this in Barry’s class, BTW, I wish I was that clever or observant!

  51. #600

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    The half whole scale isn’t mentioned book 2 p40. Just 7b5 dim and tritone’s m6-dim.