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  1. #501

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    I transcribed Chris's examples from the end of his video.
    Check it out:
    Episode 5 Half Steps Lines Examples.pdf - Google Drive

    Cheers,
    Tamir

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #502

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    Is there a video that focuses on the important triads?

  4. #503
    there’s a video about the iii biii ii progression where talk about the important arpeggios.

    So I can get these one after another at 160. I’ll make my end goal 200 with the misc rule and triplet rule. Let the month begin
    White belt
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  5. #504

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    Thanks. Any idea which video?
    I think the typical arpeggios played by jazz musicians are
    Major7th and minor 7th ascending:
    1 3 5 7
    3 5 7 9
    descending:
    5 3 1 7

    Dominant ascending:
    1 3 5 7
    3 5 7 9
    relative diminished (provides b9)

  6. #505
    practice log #2. unanticipated benefit of the triplet rules is that it forces me to play in two positions back and forth in order to play them as slurs
    White belt
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  7. #506

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop View Post
    Is there a video that focuses on the important triads?
    The "important arpeggios" occur on dominant on 1 5 and 7. It is video #5 at 11:31.

    Like I said in an earlier post, I've gone through most of Chris' videos and mapped out where he talks about stuff so I can review it. I'm happy to share these. PM me if you want them in PDF files.
    Pete Martin - just a mandolin guy but loves jazz guitar
    www.PetimarPress.com
    Www.Jazz-Mandolin.com
    Pete Plays Wes free download
    www.jazz-mandolin.com/PetePlaysWes.xht

  8. #507
    Also, Barry calls triads Arpeggios (Do mi sol Do, mi sol do mi etc). Those are the important arpeggios. he calls 4 note arpeggios "chords." Just to be a stickler, but sometimes small details matter
    White belt
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  9. #508

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    I think his meaning of arpeggios is more specific... I'll need to go back over the books. He also says 'triads'

  10. #509
    pretty sure it just means a triad with the top note an octave above the bottom note
    White belt
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  11. #510

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    pretty sure it just means a triad with the top note an octave above the bottom note
    Yeah maybe that's it. Triads = 3 notes.

  12. #511

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    pretty sure it just means a triad with the top note an octave above the bottom note
    In the videos I've seen of Barry, his term "arpeggio" means as Joe said. The example I saw was him talking about the arpeggio 5 on the dominant scale. For a C dominant scale, 5 is G Bb D G, or straight Gm. For 7 it is Bb D F Bb, a Bb major arpeggio. I've seen these used several times in Barry's solos I've transcribed. Seems like they are a favorite of his.
    Pete Martin - just a mandolin guy but loves jazz guitar
    www.PetimarPress.com
    Www.Jazz-Mandolin.com
    Pete Plays Wes free download
    www.jazz-mandolin.com/PetePlaysWes.xht

  13. #512

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    Yeah, so to be clear

    Triads = do mi sol
    Arpeggio = do mi sol do
    Chord = do mi sol te

  14. #513

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    Is my understanding correct, that all of these half-step rules are to be practiced always starting on beat 1 of the measure? So, for the 1/8 triplet, the first beat is 1-2-1, followed by regular 1/8 b7-6 (beat 2), 5-4 (beat 3), 3...(beat 4)? I’m sure over time you get the rhythmic placement in your ears and can start wherever you damn well want, but for starters I want to make sure I am not doing anything too fancy, like using the triplet as a pickup *into* bar 1.

  15. #514

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    Hi all! I've found very interesting Barry's concept of chromatic scale covered in chapter 4. That's what I'm practising now, if it helps someone:

    Attached Images Attached Images Things I learned from Barry Harris Study Group-chromatics-png 
    Same lick, different day

  16. #515

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    Thanks for that chromatic lick. What's the theory for when to leap the 3rds ?

  17. #516

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr View Post
    Is my understanding correct, that all of these half-step rules are to be practiced always starting on beat 1 of the measure? So, for the 1/8 triplet, the first beat is 1-2-1, followed by regular 1/8 b7-6 (beat 2), 5-4 (beat 3), 3...(beat 4)? I’m sure over time you get the rhythmic placement in your ears and can start wherever you damn well want, but for starters I want to make sure I am not doing anything too fancy, like using the triplet as a pickup *into* bar 1.
    I think you are correct, beat 1 at first. I also see Barry doing scale descending drills starting on beat 2 which lets you resolve the root on beat 1 of the next measure. He does it on the Major 7th chords on the Bridge of the Cherokee with Erik. I recommend the slower YoutTube speed the first time you watch...


  18. #517

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    Quote Originally Posted by tamirgal View Post
    I transcribed Chris's examples from the end of his video.
    Check it out:
    Episode 5 Half Steps Lines Examples.pdf - Google Drive

    Cheers,
    Tamir

    Hi Tamir. I was just looking at this and realized I had questions right off the bat.

    In example 1, I can see that we start on the 3rd of F7, walk down the scale passing through the root and adding the natural 7 per the half note rules to land on the 5th. Then we go up the triad of the important minor... except not. We have the Gb, a diminished triad instead. Why? Is that a part of the rules, or is this typical of Barry Harris to substitute the "important" triad with a diminished triad?

    Next, from there we have a scalar run from the 5th of Bb (starting on the 4th beat of the previous bar). According to my Workbook, there would be a added note between the 6th and the 5th, but since we don't get there, no extra notes. But...

    Why are we ending on an Ab? It sounds sour to me to end the phrase there. Wouldn't the phrase end on either the Bb or an A? Why are we injecting a b7 (that doesn't resolve, to boot)? Does this have something to do with the rules?

  19. #518

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    Hi rlrhett,

    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    Hi Tamir. I was just looking at this and realized I had questions right off the bat.

    In example 1, I can see that we start on the 3rd of F7, walk down the scale passing through the root and adding the natural 7 per the half note rules to land on the 5th. Then we go up the triad of the important minor... except not. We have the Gb, a diminished triad instead. Why? Is that a part of the rules, or is this typical of Barry Harris to substitute the "important" triad with a diminished triad?
    This isn't really usage of the important minor. This is a usage of the diminished chord related to F7.
    As Barry say, "on the third of every dominant, you'll find the diminished". So here he simply start a diminished arpeggio from A, which is the third of F7. Then it resolves nicely to the 5th of Bb. This is very very common device.

    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    Why are we ending on an Ab? It sounds sour to me to end the phrase there. Wouldn't the phrase end on either the Bb or an A? Why are we injecting a b7 (that doesn't resolve, to boot)? Does this have something to do with the rules?
    The context Chris's example here, was actually blues in F. So our ii-V progression actually resolves to Bb7, and the Ab fits nicely there (my bad for not writing Bb7).

  20. #519

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    Thanks Tamil!

    Senior moment, I guess. I had my brain stuck on it being a line down to the fifth of F7 I literally skipped a beat. It makes perfect sense if the line went down past the C to the A.

    Parenthetically, if it had stoped at the C I suppose a Cmin triad would be just what the good Doctor ordered. I think I'm beginning to get a little Barry Harris into my ears. Baby steps...

  21. #520
    Practice log: I'm not really getting any faster, but the amount of thinking I need to do has cut in half. I also switched from slurs to no slurs when I get to faster tempos.
    White belt
    My Youtube

  22. #521

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    Practice log: I'm not really getting any faster, but the amount of thinking I need to do has cut in half. I also switched from slurs to no slurs when I get to faster tempos.
    How are you practicing these? Aside from the rote “play ‘em twice” or you working on lines, or putting them into tunes?

  23. #522

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    I am practicing constructing lines and playing them in all 12 keys. Anything from one measure to four measures long.
    Pete Martin - just a mandolin guy but loves jazz guitar
    www.PetimarPress.com
    Www.Jazz-Mandolin.com
    Pete Plays Wes free download
    www.jazz-mandolin.com/PetePlaysWes.xht

  24. #523
    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr View Post
    How are you practicing these? Aside from the rote “play ‘em twice” or you working on lines, or putting them into tunes?
    I had been just playing them twice and systematically going through them in all positions. Yesterday I got bored of it and started constructing lines. Yesterday I was making I-IV-I ala blues. I just kept making line after line. Here's an example:


    I got the idea of practicing movements rather than whole tunes from Chris' vids
    White belt
    My Youtube

  25. #524

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    I stumbled on this video completely by chance, but I think it's the best presentation of the half-step rules I've seen. He starts out going through a thorough demonstration of all of the basic rules, but then moves into a discussion of applying the half-step rules to II-Vs using the dominant 7 substitutions—"playing with your brothers and sisters". It's organized, presented, and explained very well. It was ear-opening to hear all the various applications of the half-step rules with different dominant subs.


  26. #525

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr View Post
    I stumbled on this video completely by chance, but I think it's the best presentation of the half-step rules I've seen. He starts out going through a thorough demonstration of all of the basic rules, but then moves into a discussion of applying the half-step rules to II-Vs using the dominant 7 substitutions—"playing with your brothers and sisters". It's organized, presented, and explained very well. It was ear-opening to hear all the various applications of the half-step rules with different dominant subs.

    Damn! This guy makes it so accesible and has exercises that are so logical I no longer have a pretext not to practice!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  27. #526
    How you guys doing on this? and How are you doing this?

    I went back to boot camp style rote practicing. I just seem to always get the most out of that even though it can be boring.

    I haven’t been pressing speed, instead once ai reach 160 I move on to the next position. So even though I’m not getting faster, the thinking required has shrunk to almost nothing.

    the triplets are the biggest challenge because it requires an expanded position in order to slur them.

    Doing major shouldn’t be too bad, but i’ll have to make sure i don’t spend the whole month on dominant.

    Don’t forget you can do melodic minor too.

    two more months til Toronto!
    White belt
    My Youtube

  28. #527

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    It would be better to spend the whole month on dominant than major

  29. #528

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    How you guys doing on this? and How are you doing this?

    I went back to boot camp style rote practicing. I just seem to always get the most out of that even though it can be boring.

    I haven’t been pressing speed, instead once ai reach 160 I move on to the next position. So even though I’m not getting faster, the thinking required has shrunk to almost nothing.

    the triplets are the biggest challenge because it requires an expanded position in order to slur them.

    Doing major shouldn’t be too bad, but i’ll have to make sure i don’t spend the whole month on dominant.

    Don’t forget you can do melodic minor too.

    two more months til Toronto!
    Speed has never been my focus as much as reducing thinking time, but I know it it really important to many players. My speed did improve exponentially when I realized that the issue was my right hand more than my left.

    Over many posts I have seen you talk about speed. I'm sure you are blazing fast already, but I can pass along a recommendation for building speed. A year ago I bought the "Pick Slanting Primer" from Troy Grady. I know he gets bashed a lot here for being a "shred" player and not a proper "jazz" player. There seems to be some sneering disdain for anyone who bothers to deeply analyze Yngwe Malmsteen.

    But speed is speed, an his course is unlike ANYTHING else I've ever come across. It is all about the mechanics of playing fast. Like a science based analysis of a swim stroke for an athlete. Have you ever looked into it? It has nothing to do with WHAT notes you pick, but how to pick them lightning fast. It was transformative for me. Don't let jazz snobbery keep you from checking it out. It might unlock 240bpm faster than anything else, if that's your main goal.

  30. #529

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    Speed has never been my focus as much as reducing thinking time, but I know it it really important to many players. My speed did improve exponentially when I realized that the issue was my right hand more than my left.

    Over many posts I have seen you talk about speed. I'm sure you are blazing fast already, but I can pass along a recommendation for building speed. A year ago I bought the "Pick Slanting Primer" from Troy Grady. I know he gets bashed a lot here for being a "shred" player and not a proper "jazz" player. There seems to be some sneering disdain for anyone who bothers to deeply analyze Yngwe Malmsteen.

    But speed is speed, an his course is unlike ANYTHING else I've ever come across. It is all about the mechanics of playing fast. Like a science based analysis of a swim stroke for an athlete. Have you ever looked into it? It has nothing to do with WHAT notes you pick, but how to pick them lightning fast. It was transformative for me. Don't let jazz snobbery keep you from checking it out. It might unlock 240bpm faster than anything else, if that's your main goal.
    That’s an off topic but Troy Grady’s site has lots of jazz related stuff on his site. The Martin Miller and Jimmy Bruno interviews are just example.

  31. #530

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    How you guys doing on this? and How are you doing this?

    I went back to boot camp style rote practicing. I just seem to always get the most out of that even though it can be boring.

    I haven’t been pressing speed, instead once ai reach 160 I move on to the next position. So even though I’m not getting faster, the thinking required has shrunk to almost nothing.

    the triplets are the biggest challenge because it requires an expanded position in order to slur them.

    Doing major shouldn’t be too bad, but i’ll have to make sure i don’t spend the whole month on dominant.

    Don’t forget you can do melodic minor too.

    two more months til Toronto!
    I do what I can with 15 minutes practice every morning. Will be able to cover F and Bb keys.
    On weekends I spend some more time building lines and improvising. Will try to post a video next week.

  32. #531

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr View Post
    I stumbled on this video completely by chance, but I think it's the best presentation of the half-step rules I've seen. He starts out going through a thorough demonstration of all of the basic rules, but then moves into a discussion of applying the half-step rules to II-Vs using the dominant 7 substitutions—"playing with your brothers and sisters". It's organized, presented, and explained very well. It was ear-opening to hear all the various applications of the half-step rules with different dominant subs.

    That’s a great vid.
    Saw it on my YT feed many times but never clicked it. The guy put up some great examples

  33. #532

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    Quote Originally Posted by tamirgal View Post
    That’s a great vid.
    Saw it on my YT feed many times but never clicked it. The guy put up some great examples
    If you poke around on his channel you’ll find he’s got a video on half-step rules for major scales, applying the diminished-sixth harmonic stuff on a blues, then a video applying the half-step rules over the blues. It’s really a nice little...package.

  34. #533

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr View Post
    I stumbled on this video completely by chance, but I think it's the best presentation of the half-step rules I've seen. He starts out going through a thorough demonstration of all of the basic rules, but then moves into a discussion of applying the half-step rules to II-Vs using the dominant 7 substitutions—"playing with your brothers and sisters". It's organized, presented, and explained very well. It was ear-opening to hear all the various applications of the half-step rules with different dominant subs.

    If you look through the YouTube comments for this video, someone has transcribed the whole lesson (in 2 parts) and provided 2 google drive links to pdfs you can save.

  35. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr View Post
    I stumbled on this video completely by chance, but I think it's the best presentation of the half-step rules I've seen. He starts out going through a thorough demonstration of all of the basic rules, but then moves into a discussion of applying the half-step rules to II-Vs using the dominant 7 substitutions—"playing with your brothers and sisters". It's organized, presented, and explained very well. It was ear-opening to hear all the various applications of the half-step rules with different dominant subs.
    Yeah. I really liked his presentation as well. I never had a problem with the halfstep rules per se, but integrating them musically in a non mind-numbing way was a problem for me. The way he applies them with arpeggio-up scale-down was really helpful . It makes it more concretely musical. Maybe it's been presented somewhere else and I just missed it , but again, really good.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 06-17-2019 at 05:54 PM.

  36. #535

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Yeah. I really liked his presentation as well. I never had a problem with the halfstep rules per se, but integrating them musically in a non mind munching way was an problem for me. The way he applies them with arpeggio-up scale-down was really helpful . It makes it more concretely musical. Maybe it's been presented somewhere else and I just missed it , but again, really good.
    I present it like that haha

  37. #536

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I present it like that haha
    A big part of it, for me, is his left-hand providing a harmonic reference—especially when he gets to the brothers and sisters. There’s always a gap for me between this kind of exercise and playing jazz—I’ve been transcribing some BH keeping my ears open for these concepts in his playing. It always come back to rhythm and feel to me. So many ways to phrase even just a line of eighths

  38. #537

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr View Post
    A big part of it, for me, is his left-hand providing a harmonic reference—especially when he gets to the brothers and sisters. There’s always a gap for me between this kind of exercise and playing jazz—I’ve been transcribing some BH keeping my ears open for these concepts in his playing. It always come back to rhythm and feel to me. So many ways to phrase even just a line of eighths
    Chris has made wonderful videos, and I take Christian at his word that he teaches his students the same. But there was something about seeing the two hands of a pianist that really helped make these concepts musical. There is the left hand that gives the reference with shell voicing (which I've now incorporated into my half step exercises). There is also the easy ability to see where he starts and stops his lines and what notes he is playing. It's just right there.

    It is not always clear to me with Chris. In Chris' videos he often adds an extraneous tail to the line, or in some way unintentionally obfuscates what he is doing. Plus his tone is so jarring with that Strat that it is hard to hear the musicality in the lines. I have no doubt it sounds really good in an ensemble, but raw like that it has been a bit hard on the ears. The piano, by contrast, is such a familiar sound I could digest the lines instantly.

    None of that to detract the amazing good work Chris has done. It is ridiculous to me that a guy can eat a bowl of Pho the size of a baptismal font and get three million views and Chris' lifetime of work get a few thousand --if he's lucky. But this piano teacher helped a lot in making these rules accessible and musical.

  39. #538

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    Wow I don’t find Chris’s tone jarring in the slightest.

    The two hand thing on the piano is a good point. I think I have just got to the point where I don’t really give a **** what a line sounds like harmonically against the background harmony, weird as that may sound. I kind of am much more interested in the way the line sounds in isolation and the way it resolves.

    But I can understand that others do want to hear it.

    I might start using my Gamechanger pedal for video demonstrations then like Jordan does with his .

  40. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I present it like that haha
    Really curious on your take with this. Do you teach all the iterations in one or two positions , or do you teach one at a time, like "from the third" in ALL positions for a while?

  41. #540

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Really curious on your take with this. Do you teach all the iterations in one or two positions , or do you teach one at a time, like "from the third" in ALL positions for a while?
    I tend to get students to do several in position and then change. I do usually encourage students to try different fingerings at first.

    But no reason not to mix it up.

  42. #541

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    If you get them to do it through a bit of a tune, like rhythm changes bridge and keep it in the same area of the neck it’s more music related.

  43. #542
    Thanks

  44. #543

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    Actually thinking about it, I do more conscious positional work when running scale outlines. Everything is based on one octave scale shapes because that's the only way I could every get the exercises up to speed myself. Full 6 string positions were too cumbersome for me. No one wants to hear more than an octave of a scale in this music anyway....

  45. #544

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    Chris has made wonderful videos, and I take Christian at his word that he teaches his students the same. But there was something about seeing the two hands of a pianist that really helped make these concepts musical. There is the left hand that gives the reference with shell voicing (which I've now incorporated into my half step exercises). There is also the easy ability to see where he starts and stops his lines and what notes he is playing. It's just right there.

    It is not always clear to me with Chris. In Chris' videos he often adds an extraneous tail to the line, or in some way unintentionally obfuscates what he is doing. Plus his tone is so jarring with that Strat that it is hard to hear the musicality in the lines. I have no doubt it sounds really good in an ensemble, but raw like that it has been a bit hard on the ears. The piano, by contrast, is such a familiar sound I could digest the lines instantly.

    None of that to detract the amazing good work Chris has done. It is ridiculous to me that a guy can eat a bowl of Pho the size of a baptismal font and get three million views and Chris' lifetime of work get a few thousand --if he's lucky. But this piano teacher helped a lot in making these rules accessible and musical.
    I love Chris’s line endings. I think it worth adding to our vocabulary. It’s part of what make him sound like Barry.
    We should know how to end lines.

    Oh, and it seem he got a new tele!


  46. #545

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    I think that's the old tele?

    When I get back into the Barry stuff seriously (I'm not really working on it atm) I think Chris's lessons present a really well thought out course. All I have to do is send people to his channel...

    That said, as a teacher I am starting to realise this approach isn't right for everyone. Some people really struggle with it. I think you have to have your chops together to deal with it. I know it took me ages before I could even vaguely keep up.

    I think one thing you really need to practice to deal with a Barry masterclass is to listen and repeat lines verbatim off recordings basically every day.

  47. #546

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    I agree about the chops. I started with Barry’s DVDs back when playing piano. Those scale runs are much easier on the piano. On the guitar is a pain and much more time consuming (luckily though transposing lines to different scales is easier on guitar).

    The old tele was a bitten sunburst, with a humbacker. I loved it, not sure why he switched. Though they sound similar. He also got a new amp since then.

  48. #547

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    Quote Originally Posted by tamirgal View Post
    I agree about the chops. I started with Barry’s DVDs back when playing piano. Those scale runs are much easier on the piano. On the guitar is a pain and much more time consuming (luckily though transposing lines to different scales is easier on guitar).

    The old tele was a bitten sunburst, with a humbacker. I loved it, not sure why he switched. Though they sound similar. He also got a new amp since then.
    It’s fine. We just learn scales on the guitar in an unhelpful way.

  49. #548
    I’m going to take Christian’s advice and stick with dominant for the rest of the month.

    Thanks for the troy grady tip i will check that out. I don’t think i have the “need for speed” bug, i just think being able to play around 200 is important for this music
    White belt
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  50. #549

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    Yeah - I don’t know how any other Barry heads feel about this, but so many of the applications are about resolving dominants into target chords. In combination with the end phrases I think you dig out workable bop vocab quickly this way.

    Let the dominant dominate as Barry says.

    It’s not the only thing, but it is quite a lot of it.

  51. #550

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    The speed - that’s tough of course. I still struggle with articulation although not raw speed per se. You don’t need to be a Paul Gilbert style shredder but you do need agility.

    I think learning to slur in a jazz way is helpful - hammering and pulling off on the off beats onto the beat.

    Also, learn to economy pick.

    You don’t have to do it this way but those are strategies I find helpful .

    Hear the phrase. That’s really important. If you can hear it clearly on your head it’s easier to play.