The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26
    Sure, but I guess other instruments have their own synchronization challenges, I mean just listen to Art Tatum on "solo" piano, sounds like there are 3 guys playing!

    Until someone comes along and plays guitar like Wes and piano like Oscar Peterson, and declares the mastery of one instrument to be harder than the other, we'll never know if that's true. Just try to be the best you can be on your chosen instrument I suppose. At any rate, there's no harm in trying to make my guitar phrasing sound like Wayne Shorter's sax..... or is there.....?

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    All instruments in the string family require the same coordinated 2 hand dexterity.
    Probably right, but
    I don't know enough about them to have an opinion, except
    aren't a lot of high speed passages/phrases on other stringed instruments played legato, using a bow?

  4. #28

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    Banjo has all the problem of guitar, plus playing a banjo often leads to insanity

  5. #29

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    see, and i thought that it was insanity that inevitably led to playing the banjo.

  6. #30

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    "I can't think of another instrument which demands such a perfect synchronization between the hands"

    I don't buy this. If you play sax and your left and right hands aren't in sync you will fail. Piano can be even more complicated to sync the hands. Oscer Peterson?

    Hammer ons and pull offs can add speed to your playing. (Watch Mimi Fox play)

    The bottom line is each of us aren't able to play at the same speed no matter what practice routine we use. We each have to use our strengths to convey musical ideas. Sometimes that can be done with fast strings of notes and other times the spaces between the notes or the interesting harmonic content will be the key. Just because the best player that ever lived can play at blistering speed doesn't mean anyone who practices proper technique can.

    The best any of us can do is strive to improve and find our own voice.

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Banjo has all the problem of guitar, plus playing a banjo often leads to insanity
    a gentleman may be defined as one who can play the banjo...but doesn't.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.A.JO.
    Like I said initially speed is byproduct of accuracy = good tone and technique.

    Practicing for speed isn't about trying to move your hands faster and faster. This would be the same as a boxer who just throws many punches fast after one another. The thing to do is to concentrate on using the right amount of tension, not picking with too big movements, the left hand fingers must be close to the fretboard, and the body should be in a relaxed state. When doing this very, very slow you acquire good technique, and because of this you're able to play faster because your hands are making small, precise movements, you're relaxed. It is basically a question about being relaxed enough and using economy of motion.

    Speed WILL come if the focus is correct. This isn't supposed to take many years. Whether you like it or not, technique is needed to play music. I find it funny that most guitar players neglect this. Technique has whole other priority when I'm speaking to sax players, violinists, etc.

    When people say that must spend countless hours before attaining any speed, I can't help but wonder if they practice correct. It isn't about repeating fast movements, but how to get more accurate.

    For instance if I'm feel my hands start to cramp up when playing a 16th note sequence at 150 bpm, then I analyze why it's cramping. Maybe I discover some weak upstrokes, which is causing me to cramp up because I'm trying to keep up with the tempo. Then I reduce the metronome to 60% and isolate the upstrokes, and spend about 5 min. of this slow practice of getting my upstrokes more accurate with the least amount of tension. Then I will set the metronome to 150 bpm again and see if it's changed. This rinse and repeat process is done over and over. I'm not sitting there trying to get it right at 150 bpm, and just trying and trying.

    I practice 1-2 hours per day. 25% of my practice time is spend on technique. It's not rocket science.
    These are some great practice tips, cheers C.A.JO.! For the past few months I have been using some Pat Martino runs as exercises to try and build up a bit of speed in my playing. It does not come easily to me - so far I can get up to a mere 120 bpm playing semiquavers, but it's quite good fun in a way and I used to be a lot slower still! I hear what people are saying about speed not being the most important thing and I do agree, but also, as has been said, you can't neglect technique completely. I guess in the end there are times when I hear things that I can't technically manage to play, so that means practice doesn't it?

  9. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by randalljazz
    a gentleman may be defined as one who can play the banjo...but doesn't.
    see, I thought it was the trombone....

  10. #34

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    It takes 2 hands to play the accordion. Now that's kinda hard to shred on.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    It takes 2 hands to play the accordion. Now that's kinda hard to shred on.
    Go to youtube and search for "accordion bellow shake". Accordion shredding!

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meggy
    These are some great practice tips, cheers C.A.JO.! For the past few months I have been using some Pat Martino runs as exercises to try and build up a bit of speed in my playing. It does not come easily to me - so far I can get up to a mere 120 bpm playing semiquavers, but it's quite good fun in a way and I used to be a lot slower still! I hear what people are saying about speed not being the most important thing and I do agree, but also, as has been said, you can't neglect technique completely. I guess in the end there are times when I hear things that I can't technically manage to play, so that means practice doesn't it?
    Yes, practice. But practice correctly! Practice makes permanent, but perfect practice makes perfect!

    Furthermore you have to believe you can achieve great technique and speed, if that's a goal to you. It's a tough mental process, because you're always playing near your max speed, and everything feels tough and hard.

    I've played guitar for 13 years, and it wasn't until I had someone to actually show me how to practice for speed/technique (not the same I know, BUT IF YOU HAVE GREAT TECHNIQUE YOU WILL BE ABLE TO PLAY FAST. PERIOD.) that I finally was able to increase my speed and level of technique. Many of my musical ideas I wasn't able to execute because my hands held me back. It nice now when I don't really have hands which are holding my musical ideas back.

  13. #37
    There are many "techniques" surely? I think that slowish players with a great technique develop a totally different set of muscles in their training. The quickish guys are different in this respect. If you like to play quickly all the time, then playing a slow legato phrase with l-o-n-g notes smoothly running into each other with a nice controlled tone will reveal a weakness in this muscle set. I've been noticing how hard it is to do an exercise that I'm used to doing quickly and then slow it down to half speed or slower. I mean it seems "harder" to make it sound musical. This is when I realize I've been too focused on velocity to the detriment of musicality, precisely the point being made by some.

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    There are many "techniques" surely? I think that slowish players with a great technique develop a totally different set of muscles in their training. The quickish guys are different in this respect. If you like to play quickly all the time, then playing a slow legato phrase with l-o-n-g notes smoothly running into each other with a nice controlled tone will reveal a weakness in this muscle set. I've been noticing how hard it is to do an exercise that I'm used to doing quickly and then slow it down to half speed or slower. I mean it seems "harder" to make it sound musical. This is when I realize I've been too focused on velocity to the detriment of musicality, precisely the point being made by some.
    I had this problem a year ago. I'd worked so much on speed, and when I finally took a break and slowed down my notes weren't fretted or picked loud or dynamic enough. Then I spent one month only practicing slow and working on phrasing. This evened my slow and fast techniques. It actually made my phrasing when playing fast a whole lot better.

    For the record I want to state that speed is not something in it self. Fast phrases are still made of NOTES, and the line used should still be MUSICAL. I use speed as a phrasing tool alongside slurs, legato, bends, vibrato, rhythm etc. I think speed as a phrasing tool can be used as a tension/release device. You build tension when you speed up, and the release comes when you slow down. Most of the time I use it as "filler". I have many different sequences and patterns to every scale and arpeggio I know, and when improvising I use these speedy salvos as filler, or going from one place of the neck to another. BUT sometimes I play fast and think fast (or try to do so); that's something I'm still working on, and since my fingers and hands don't hold me back I can focus on the musical aspect of fast improvising exclusively.

    IF you want to work on speed --> combine the mindsets from Jody Fisher's books and Napolean Hill's "Think and Grow Rich".

    Jody Fisher wants you to focus on accuracy and the least amount of tension - (this will enable one to play faster).
    Napolean Hill gives you mental tools, which will make you BELIEVE you can do ANYTHING you desire to do. (I really benefitted from this. In the past I thought it was impossible for me to be able to play fast. When combining these two mindsets and practicing guitar, I developed the proper mindset for breaking the plateau. A good teacher showed me how to do that.)

    I think I've spend my dosage on speed-talk now:-) See you later.... I want to practice, I have a gig tonight - and it must be musical, since I get paid to play songs and not showing off with fast scales:-)
    Last edited by C.A.JO.; 11-06-2009 at 05:17 AM.

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.A.JO.
    Yes, practice. But practice correctly! Practice makes permanent, but perfect practice makes perfect!

    Furthermore you have to believe you can achieve great technique and speed, if that's a goal to you. It's a tough mental process, because you're always playing near your max speed, and everything feels tough and hard.

    I've played guitar for 13 years, and it wasn't until I had someone to actually show me how to practice for speed/technique (not the same I know, BUT IF YOU HAVE GREAT TECHNIQUE YOU WILL BE ABLE TO PLAY FAST. PERIOD.) that I finally was able to increase my speed and level of technique. Many of my musical ideas I wasn't able to execute because my hands held me back. It nice now when I don't really have hands which are holding my musical ideas back.
    Some wisdom to go with the earlier practice tips, cheers again! It IS tough I agree, I have found this myself, but I am making some progress. I don't think I want to be a "speed burner" type of player - I just want what I think of as a "respectable" amount of technique speed wise - as you say, I don't want to feel my hands are holding me back.

  16. #40

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    Too many guys already play faster than their brains can work.

  17. #41

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    Each one has a different relationship with his/her instrument...and music, of course.

    With ANY instrument, speed is achieved by the following:

    1) precision

    2) relaxation

    Number one is achieved by practicing at SLOW tempo, in a VERY deliberate manner

    Number two is achieved through meditation (prior to practice) and slow breathing during practice.

    Tension at ANY time during practice will actually have a negative effect on speed. Thus, it should be avoided.

    Finally, after having done as suggested, do ONE run at your fastest tempo. Then, go back to SLOW and repeat. If you do this, you'll see that your fastest tempo will slowly but surely increase while for you, the player, it will all be in slow motion.

    It's all about being relaxed. Speed is a function of thought - if you can't think fast, you will NOT be able to play fast.

  18. #42

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    For me , it's all about the speed .


    Not really ... it's about playing what I hear . What I hear is fast and modal.
    My generation was all about Coltrane\Corea\McLaughlin anyway .

    If your speed makes the band get syncopated , you're doing it right .

    If your band starts sounding like a backing track, you're doing something terribly wrong.

    But infinitely more important than speed is tone . I REALLY hate a bad tone.

    It makes the guitar sound cheesy .

  19. #43

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    Tone is 90% the player...NOT the instruments...

  20. #44

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    I could play faster when I was playing and gigging all the time. Fast never felt good to me if it wasn't fluid. Now, I focus on playing the standards I like and songs I compose at the tempo I hear them, fluidly. Sometimes this pushes me to the upper limits of my ability with speed, usually not. I don't think about what I'll do if someone calls Giant Steps or Cherokee at a racing tempo because that's no longer a part of my musical reality. I don't miss it either.

  21. #45

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    I didn't see a mention of Joe Pass as a fast player.
    I think he's fast. (And still melodic) But, I think anyone who is faster than me is fast...


  22. #46

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    The fast player is the one in a rush to get his concert fee.

  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrCoconut
    I didn't see a mention of Joe Pass as a fast player.
    He could always blow by anyone I ever heard. His playing on the album Sounds of Synanon was my earliest exposure to chops like that. Here’s the original take of C.E.D. from that album (played in C):


    And to highlight the fact that everybody plays a few clams every now and then, listen to his flubs in the first few bars of his intro on this version (which is inexplicably in Db on playback):



    But JP could give anybody a run for their money, including Bruno, Wilkins, Benson, and every other legendary speed demon.

  24. #48

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    I can cook along pretty good as a bluegrass flat picker but when I started getting serious about learning jazz guitar it was like starting all over again...from scratch. Right now I'm concentrating on chord melody playing and theory and it's kicking my novice a*#. It doesn't have anything to do with speed right now. Just like bluegrass, once I get past the basics, speed will come. But I have a loooonnnnggggg way to go before I can worry about speed while playing jazz. First comes jazz chords, jazz progressions, comping, arpeggios, scales, some theory, and a LOT of listening.
    Last edited by jumpnblues; 08-01-2022 at 08:41 AM.

  25. #49

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    I used to play much faster than I am able to now, due to emerging arthritis and some neuralgia. To be honest, I don’t miss it. Plus, at jam sessions the horns and a hyperactive pianist need some counterbalance anyways. ;-P

  26. #50

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    I prefer those who choose to play faster tunes, slower.