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One way I suppose is simply to look at it as voice leading - Cm9 Cm9(maj7) D9
Where we have the line cliche G G# A.
Dunno though, BH is very scale oriented.
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06-27-2018 06:04 AM
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I got it - Barry Harris would see the arp C E G# B D as belonging to A harmonic minor, which he does talk about. But it’s in DVD set 2 and I haven’t looked at that too much cos set 1 has been more than ample for the last 3 years.
Probably seems a bit perverse to cst people because of the F, but major/minor cross relations are really really common in bop.
Obviously there’s no F or F# in the actual line so it’s ambiguous. I’d probably see it as Mel min, but it is possible to understand it just using the Bh toolkit.
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Watch it Christian, you're talking to yourself again....
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Well no one else answered my question :-)
They say it’s the first sign but in my case I wouldn’t say it was the first sign....
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well no, the first sign must have occurred in March 2013...
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Hear it in your head, play it with your hands. The more you listen to music that inspires you, the better your imagination will work. Humming along with what you're imagining can help. If you're not hearing it in your head, your hands have nothing to do.
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Yes. And you have to PRACTICE IMPROV. Hear it. Play and improvise on bop changes. Over and over and over. Hours. The language will come.
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Re the Melodic Minor approach.
This is the route I took and am very comfortable with now. I like the sound of it.
I don't think (but can't prove) that the hard Bop players thought this way.
Perhaps the easiest of all ways to approach the functioning dominant is to say "put a lot of tension in there.....or not....depending on how you feel"
I mean, ultimately this is what it is to me. Tension. Or not. Tension means including b9,#9 b5 or #5 .....or not.
Then it's how you do that. I use the MM route. Christian uses the BH route.
Stylistically we may not arrive at the same place....especially if we are talking traditional Bop language. Well known lines that connect in a familiar way. MM won't get you there until you study those lines and fit them into you MM universe.
BH route is probably better for that.
But MM is a beautiful sound to my ears.
I noticed that in all my transcribing that Parker, Stitt, Cannonball don't think the MM way.
I think I like it because it still works in Bop but sounds modern......probably not the right word.
Here is John Stowell explaining his approach using MM. Sounds good to me and I learned a lot from his MM course. I didn't think about using MM a tone below but it can sound great!......and because you already know the scale you can just move it around. It's a nice way in. Lots of mileage from one scale. Once again...it's not Bop language though.......just a collection of notes.
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MM on the b7 gives the b9 and #9 - but with no 3rd, right? Not really ready for this one, not when there are so many other combos of the 4 alt notes to explore...
Originally Posted by Philco
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Yeah I didn’t really want to get sidetracked into the mm conversation.
What I meant is basically to get into bebop language you can spend a long time on his the dominant scale. There’s a lot you can do with just that, if you are building lines and not just playing arpeggios and what not, and if you are serious about old school bop as opposed to some modern take on it, you’ll find most of the language belongs in this area.
(You will also find that this approach might actually create lines that are analysable as belonging to melodic minor modes etc.)
Which I think is what Philco said. I see MM as the icing on the cake.
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I call melodic minor modes in bop the ‘Boston accent.’
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It depends whether we think in terms of melodic minor, but IVm on V7 is extremely common in lines. Extremely. Originally Posted by princeplanet
b3 against dominant chords is also extremely common. Not an issue. Of course CST people would prefer to think #9 but that’s bullshit really. It’s minor against major. Parker did this A LOT.
I think this is a problem of cst. People get caught up in things like this.
Seriously go and transcribe what the guys on Kind of Blue use to solo on the 7#9s in All Blues. Case in point.
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Ha ha.....yeah of course. b3 against dominant is just blues to me. Originally Posted by christianm77
I noticed...excuse the digression.....something about Benson’s left hand position.
If you look at a rock or blues player’s left hand resting position it’s often resting in a “pentatonic ready” position.
So a blues in A will see the left hand hovering from 5th to 8th fret. The good old box. b3 at the ready!
But when Benson is doing a blues style tune his first finger plants on the 4th fret (blues in A) and hand position spans from the 4th to the 8th fret.
A seemingly small difference but it’s a really big difference in fundamental approach.
He is in position for all the altered notes and is always playing around with lines that include b9 b3 3 4 b5 on the 3rd string.
And of course he’s also got the 3rd ready on the 5th string.
So the whole hand is “saying” major, minor, blues, pentatonic......all covered.
Seems like a small thing but it’s hard for a former rock player to change that bloody box hand position!
It took me about 3 years to eradicate that box position and stop basing every extension on it.
I still “see” it......but It’s no longer in high rotation, no longer the gravitational pull.
Ok that’s a strange subject.
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