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  1. #1
    have you heard Peter Farrell ?
    He is teaming up with George Benson to create a curriculum for the George Benson Guitar method.
    Can't wait for that to drop! In the mean time check out this ridiculousness!





    Last edited by jzucker; 10-06-2017 at 08:07 PM.

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  3. #2

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    Did the GB institute ever open in Latin America or wherever?

    BTW - this video is a sign of the times I guess, a big chops show.

    That kind of playing bears little resemblance to George's playing, which involved lyricism and a masterful build to an explosive climax. Even at the point of climax the playing - while virtuosic - was very musical and melodic, not chop suey.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    Did the GB institute ever open in Latin America or wherever?

    BTW - this video is a sign of the times I guess, a big chops show.

    That kind of playing bears little resemblance to George's playing, which involved lyricism and a masterful build to an explosive climax. Even at the point of climax the playing - while virtuosic - was very musical and melodic, not chop suey.
    Peter is a student of Benson's. Benson thinks enough of Peter that he teamed up with Peter to make the curriculum and put together the benson academy!

    Peter's a friend of mine and a super nice guy.

    *AND* it's a youtube clip so basically an advertisement. You would expect it to be something that captures folks' attention!
    Last edited by jzucker; 09-22-2017 at 10:21 AM.

  5. #4

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    No doubt, I understand completely.

  6. #5

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    To me this is like that line in the Branford Marsalis YT I post where he says.... "try to explain something that can't be explained".

    Benson has amazing ears, he started as a singer and it still his first love so the man has tons of melodies and lines floating around in his head. I've seen it before with some of the old cat who'd do clinic at the school they learned a bit of theory so they can do clinic or books and makes some money, but what they are really about is they can play anything they hear in their head or someone else playing. They hear things and just know what they want to play over it, how do you explain that?

    I don't think what Benson does can be codified, the best way to learn Benson is spend a lot of time listening to him, learn to sing the lines and sections of his solos you like, then get them under your fingers on your guitar. Then like the old cat I get to hang with says, spend some time everyday just singing lines, then playing them on your instrument. You need to get to you can play anything you sing instantly first time. It takes awhile but where you have to get. That's where Benson is at.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  7. #6
    not disagreeing with anything you said doc but Peter studied with Benson and is the right guy to lead the benson techniques moving forward. The reason you study the benson method is not to play exactly like benson but to use that as an influence, moving forward. Just like I studied with Martino for a year and studied with Joe Pass, Herb Ellis, Howard Roberts, Barney Kessel, Andrew White, etc. I thikn you can hear the Martino influence in my playing but I don't think I sound like a Martino clone. When I studied with Martino, the actual lessons were not as valuable as the inspiration and immersion in the music that transpired during that time. With the benson method, lead by Peter, I think it's safe to assume the lesson material itself will be just as informative as the inspiration and immersion in the music.

    We live in a different age now. When benson came up, you could jam and session every day of the week playing jazz. Where can you do that today other than manhattan?

    With youtube and lessons and books by folks like Peter/Benson, Adam Rogers, Kreisberg, etc., there is a wealth of knowledge for players to learn and incorporate into their repertoire.

    I plan to sign up even though i'm not interested in becoming a Benson clone. However, I *AM* interested in continuing to grow as a musician and guitarist and that includes taking advantage of every opportunity that comes around.

  8. #7

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    I'm happy to check it out as well. Are they up and running yet? Is there a link?

    Artist Works is another example of a site that has some incredible masters that one can study with, and in many styles, although it's more the master class format than private lesson format. Actually, it's in between because you get multiple masters classes with the master based on your membership plan. Not unlike the online Bruno school in terms of approach???

    Anyway, Information Technology has created some incredible capabilities and opportunities. Some dangerous, some counterproductive, and some that are incredibly and powerfully useful. If Franz Lizst could only see this...

    http://www.uel.br/pos/musica/pages/a...0-%20Liszt.pdf
    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 09-22-2017 at 09:03 PM.

  9. #8
    Awesome! I've never heard of Peter Farrell and he sounds like quite a player. Really exciting to hear that it's coming, so glad that there is an attempt at distilling George Benson's play style in the works.

    Outside of Benson himself it's hard to find many who can play like Benson. A few good mentions: Richie Hart, Andreas Oberg, Rodney Jones

    Who could forget Benson's infamous "instructional" video!

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop View Post
    To me this is like that line in the Branford Marsalis YT I post where he says.... "try to explain something that can't be explained".
    That was great - and I agree with Jazzstdnt's observation that the Peter Farrell video is 'a sign of the times'. Formidable chops, yes - but I'm not sure they aren't just a big fat red herring if one wants to play 'jazz'.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post
    That was great - and I agree with Jazzstdnt's observation that the Peter Farrell video is 'a sign of the times'. Formidable chops, yes - but I'm not sure they aren't just a big fat red herring if one wants to play 'jazz'.
    i think that's unfair. Peter is a fabulous musician who has played with many great players. Face it, if you really want to be a great jazz player, you need to go to NYC and play in that type of environment. It's one of the few places where you actually can still play jazz and jam with great musicians every night of the week.

    However, studying with someone or at a great academy like what Peter and George are trying to put together can be very helpful.

  12. #11
    here's an interesting gig with Peter Farrell and Adam Rogers. I wouldn't want to follow their solos!



    There are a bunch of videos from that gig. Really great and inspirational playing.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    i think that's unfair.
    Sorry, but I'm not sure which part(s) of my comment you find unfair.

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post
    Sorry, but I'm not sure which part(s) of my comment you find unfair.
    calling it a red herring. Anyway, I apologize. I don't want to get into an argument. I think peter's playing is great and the benson method will be a great learning experience for folks. I think we all should try to take the best from what is available. There is no single "method" which will turn a beginner into the complete package of being a great jazz musician. Like anything else, it's ultimately up to the player to do the work.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    here's an interesting gig with Peter Farrell and Adam Rogers. I wouldn't want to follow their solos!



    There are a bunch of videos from that gig. Really great and inspirational playing.
    Quite sublime - and advantaged, perhaps, by the rhythm section's sensitive reading of this sublime song.

    But, without wishing to be unfair, I summon the temerity to push forward a little paper boat to see whether it floats... and ask whether it's 'jazz'?

    Whether or not it's 'jazz' doesn’t affect my ability to appreciate the beauty of the music or the virtuosity of the performance(s).

    But I'm expressing the view that a dazzling display of technical facility actually doesn't constitute 'jazz'.

    I don't believe that view is unfair.

    On the contrary, what I think is 'unfair' - unfair, that is, to impressionable fools like me (who make the mistake of abdicating reason and deferring to undifferentiated online opinion) - is the conflation of 'chops' with 'jazz'.

    I speak/write as one who's not only posted that great clip (above) but also raved - effusively and repeatedly (in the Benson picking mega-thread) - about Peter's Skype lessons, which I recommend wholeheartedly... but that's neither here nor there.

    Because my little paper boat floats on, 'against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past', the good ship venturing the question it was named for: But Is It Jazz?

  16. #15

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    Kool & The Gang:

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    calling it a red herring.
    Sorry, but that's not accurate - because it's incomplete. You've left out (conditional) 'if'.

    So here's that full phrase again for comparison (with the omitted part in bold):
    I'm not sure they aren't just a big fat red herring if one wants to play 'jazz'
    ('They' being 'chops' - which I described as 'formidable'.)

    I maintain the view that what is mechanical - well-developed as it may be - is not necessarily musical.

    Off to listen to some Grant Green.

  18. #17

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    Well I didn't mean to start a sh!t storm. PF can really play. He displays virtuosity. And I certainly don't begrudge his go to market strategy, I wish him well! $$$

    And the "sign of the times" thing? Well, I meant the "internet oriented, quick click and then move on, "catch my attention in less than 1 second or I'm done with you" syndrome which has taken over. (I'm walking down the street typing on my iPhone as I write this. OK, not really). Like JZ said above, you have to grab people's attention. And it's becoming more difficult to do.

    My point (unimportant as it was) was that there is an upside and a downside to virtuosity, as we all know. The upside is unrestricted musical expression and articulation. The downside is athletics over art.

    Telling a story, building tension, making the listener anticipate and even beg for climactic release (like GB did) is the perhaps the greatest gift a virtuoso offers his/her audience.

    But perpetual climaxing is torturous.
    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 09-23-2017 at 11:17 AM.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    here's an interesting gig with Peter Farrell and Adam Rogers. I wouldn't want to follow their solos!



    There are a bunch of videos from that gig. Really great and inspirational playing.

    Awesome playing there, and yes he sounds like Georgie alright. The only thing that's missing is the lack of breathing and space. That should be easy compared to everything else being done and it makes all the difference in the world. Tell a story, build tension more gradually, make 'em wait. They'll beg for more. That's all.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    Well I didn't mean to start a sh!t storm.
    I think of it as laying a false scent to draw hounds off a trail. The good ship But Is It Jazz?...

  21. #20

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    Perspective:

  22. #21

  23. #22

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    Looking forward to checking out the GB website but I have to say, this clip and others recently posted have made me a fan of Adam Rodgers.

  24. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by rob taft View Post
    Looking forward to checking out the GB website but I have to say, this clip and others recently posted have made me a fan of Adam Rodgers.
    As you say, It's possible to be a fan of both. I have instructional videos of Adam's and I plan on getting some from Peter as well.

  25. #24

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    Any info about the method's release date?

  26. #25
    I suggest contacting Peter Farrell through facebook for additional info. I'm going to post this in another thread but he gives Skype lessons and had a subscription for facebook live events in which he teaches jazz improv, benson style playing, etc.

    Peter Farrell facebook page

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    ...

    We live in a different age now. When benson came up, you could jam and session every day of the week playing jazz. Where can you do that today other than manhattan? ...
    Brooklyn (or so they tell me; my interborough passport expired)

    John

  28. #27

  29. #28

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    the farrell clip is wonderful seems to me

    if you played it slow it would sound great

    and its got a great feel too - everything connects up very naturally - deep connection to be-bop via benson - wonderful

    he's not just playing over a sound - he's playing melodic ideas you could sing

    amazing

    and of course a great advert for benson's right hand (which has changed my guitar-life)

  30. #29

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    Much like Rock & Rollers digging Hendrix but leaving much of the ' Urban ' aspect behind....

    I think many Jazzers .. inspired by Benson( how can you not be ) leave much of the 'Urban' aspect behind but in both cases there was/ is so much African Mojo there that a little goes a long way ...

    Anyone ever hear a Jazz Guitarist dance inside a beat like Benson did here ?
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 09-29-2017 at 05:26 AM.

  31. #30
    great clip. Benson's one of the legendary players of all time obviously. You can't compare anyone to him!

    Before heaping criticism on Peter, let's remember that George Benson CAME TO PETER and asked him to put together the george benson method. So I will trust George Benson's taste that Peter is the right guy to put together the george benson method, lol.

    Regarding the right hand, it's interesting because both Peter and George say that the whole benson picking thing is not even necessary to get the benson sound and feel!
    Last edited by jzucker; 09-29-2017 at 07:34 AM.

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa View Post


    Much like Rock & Rollers digging Hendrix but leaving much of the ' Urban ' aspect behind....

    I think many Jazzers .. inspired by Benson( how can you not be ) leave much of the 'Urban' aspect behind but in both cases there was/ is so much African Mojo there that a little goes a long way ...

    Anyone ever hear a Jazz Guitarist dance inside a beat like Benson did here ?
    Good post. Listen to George - and look at the moon (not the finger that points to it).

    Ciao for now, forum.

  33. #32

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    I've always mentioned Guitarists like Norman Brown
    and I noticed Paul Jackson Jr. have ' absorbed' or adapted much of GB's Time Feel but not using
    ' the slice '...they use a more common/ ' conventional pick grip as I do..and I got that time feel when I adopted Swing also .



    I think Peter Farrell sounds great though...

    It is to George's credit that he wants Others to emulate his 'feel' and carry on with his Style- rather than go down in History as 'the only one' who really had it.

    To my ears- Michael Brecker had a similar Time Feel
    Brecker and Benson always sound like they are Playing R&B to me...my 2 favorite Jazz Soloists.

    GB has that aggressive time feel when he plays Rhythm or even beats up the Guitar, playing with his thumb...


    I assume that he wants his Style to continue and Evolve ...so Others can give it to the World in the Future...












    However you hold the pick or no pick...the right
    hand Mechanics need to be almost completely out of the way to get the Feel...there's only a few milliseconds later in the Measure...then you are at
    Pat Martino....then a few more milliseconds later and you are at Pat Metheny....still swings but more relaxed feel...and there are Players who are even further back in Time..which over some Rhythms causes the Soloist to be heard as Playing along with the Track...rather than playing IN the Track ( or Rhythm Section).
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 11-06-2017 at 07:37 PM.

  34. #33
    i never really thought about brecker having benson's time feel. They sound different to me in terms of feel but i'll listen more critically next time I listen to brecker. He's also one of my favorites. I also like Bob Berg's feel. Both of them took a lot from Trane obviously and both of them played a lot of funk/r&b so maybe that is one of the secrets.

    Both of them had tragic endings to their lives. Glad George is still at it!

  35. #34

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    it does also seem to me that the square on-the-beat groove - the funk or r and b feel to the groove - means that the whole thing lacks a rhythmical dynamism that reduces the musical interest of the whole affair greatly

    it feels like he's vamping basically - and that the time loops endlessly just like the harmony does

    that means i vastly prefer - i mean so much that its hard to make any comparison at all - wes' time feel to benson's. and not just his time feel but what he 'says' with that feel too. so i will listen to wes all day and all week - but i will only listen to the odd 'tune' of benson's.

    i do have the suspicion that he is perhaps the most accomplished of all guitarists (george) - but that is an entirely different matter

    i think the reference to r and b is right - that this is much more r and b than it is jazz

    this is the same with the farrell clip - the 'band' is so on the beat that i can't get into the overall sound very much at all. i think you could play pretty much what he's playing in a genuine driving jazz set-up and it could be amazing - but it would need a totally different 'time frame' to bring out the best in it.

    but i just want the feel of constant forward motion from the drums and bass - not a looping type of thing. i lose interest very quickly.

  36. #35

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    Peter's right hand, as similar as it might seem, is really quite different. The pick angle and grip are the same, But George has a loose wrist that drives his incredible picking and strumming technique.

  37. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by DS71 View Post
    Peter's right hand, as similar as it might seem, is really quite different. The pick angle and grip are the same, But George has a loose wrist that drives his incredible picking and strumming technique.
    it's unimportant and irrelevant. Peter never claimed to be a clone of benson, he's just the guy benson tapped as having the best and closest approach to his along with being able to convey that through the curriculum he helped develop.

    Sometimes, the attitude around here is puzzling. People are always grousing about how poorly jazz is accepted and then it seems that when someone is out there trying to do something about it, folks seem to either complain, nitpick or be indifferent about it.

    SUPPORT THE MUSIC AND THE ART FOLKS!

    There's never going to be another benson or wes but that doesn't mean that you can't learn something about benson or wes' style from a teacher.

    Anyway, I've put out the information so I'll unsubscribe and let the thread go where it wants to.
    Last edited by jzucker; 09-29-2017 at 08:59 PM.

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    ....to create a curriculum for the George Benson Guitar method.


    Just pointing out an obvious difference. If you don't like it, ignore it.
    Last edited by DS71; 09-29-2017 at 09:10 PM.

  39. #38

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    yes the fine-grained differences in technique can be very interesting if you're working on that stuff. benson has an awe-inspiring casualness or looseness in his playing technique that seems to allow him to do whatever the hell he likes with the instrument - i've never seen that sort of thing with another player.

    i love the way farrell plays - it has wonderful flow and at the same time it is very articulate. (i just don't know why the rhythm section has to sound that way - but its not relevant really)

    and whilst there is some connection between the way you (physically) play the instrument and the feel you get - it would be very silly to insist that the connection was a very very tight one. did anyone do that?

    equally to say that there is no connection between the way someone plays (physically) and the feel they get would be silly

  40. #39

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    I'm with Jack on this one. Peter sounds great, and while I will never play as well as GB, I sure would like a short cut to breaking down some of those phrases and command of the neck. If I were studying to become a great author, why wouldn't I want to read a ton of my favorite works and learn about phrasing, language, story telling, etc?

    If one simply looks at these attempts to codify a master as a way to open new doors, the honest musician won't be silly enough to try to claim them for his own, but can appreciate someone else's discoveries about harmony, phrasing, timing, etc.

    I love to work on breaking down Metheny, Wes, Kreisberg phrases, but am smart enough to not try to pass as any of those guys. But I sure love learning about how they move about musically, it gives me ideas and feeds my own discovery.

    In particular, I appreciate Jack for being a patient advocate for the point he's trying to make. He has good ears and I'm usually in agreement with him. There is so much to learn, and so little time to quibble about what folks are up to. Most of us can spot a disingenuous copy cat, but this is not that, anymore than all of those Coltrane disciples who have clearly absorbed much of Trane's language.
    It all works out in the end; if it's not working out, it's not the end.

  41. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Groyniad View Post
    yes the fine-grained differences in technique can be very interesting if you're working on that stuff. benson has an awe-inspiring casualness or looseness in his playing technique that seems to allow him to do whatever the hell he likes with the instrument - i've never seen that sort of thing with another player.

    i love the way farrell plays - it has wonderful flow and at the same time it is very articulate. (i just don't know why the rhythm section has to sound that way - but its not relevant really)

    and whilst there is some connection between the way you (physically) play the instrument and the feel you get - it would be very silly to insist that the connection was a very very tight one. did anyone do that?

    equally to say that there is no connection between the way someone plays (physically) and the feel they get would be silly
    Benson- I call that ' freedom ' in his Playing
    ' Wreckless Precision' he does wild improv. but it is Rhythmically very precise and tight to the Groove- and unlike Most Guitarists - the tighter the Groove gets - he still remains wild and creative and thrives on the Challenge but remaining super tight with secondary Rhythms all over the neck .
    When he Plays Funk and R&B or - he instantly becomes the best Funk R&B Guitarist on the Planet- it's crazy how good he can be.

    In the Rock field Eddie Van Halen seems to have a lot of the 'Wreckless Precision ' Quality..
    Not in GBs league Rhythmically or Harmonically of course...

    I doubt if anyone is as Groovetastic as George though with his voicings and Solo lines- I Imagine
    he would even be Funktastic over Polyrhythms.

    Farrel sounds really good though...one of the very few with a similar aggressive swing to GB.
    And he looks pretty young- he has plenty of time to get even Better.

    Hopefully he will disregard the...' Hey you are an excellent Player but you're no George Benson ' junk.
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 10-30-2017 at 08:21 PM.

  42. #41


    He's got group lessons on facebook. worth checking out!

    Hello guys, I will create one more "virtual classroom" here on facebook only for the ones that speak english. Only 20 vacancies, and the price is amazing $ 80 dollars every 4 weeks (PayPal payments). There will be 1 lesson per week, where I will teach you guys part of The George Benson Method and everything I know, no secrets. All the lessons will be available in the secret group full time. Don't miss this opportunity. Send an email to peterfarrell1818@gmail.com

  43. #42
    This free video on is facebook page (in Portuguese); might get you a taste of Peter's fantastic lessons

    https://www.facebook.com/peterfarrel...1043126957219/

  44. #43
    i can't believe nobody has "liked" the video 2 posts above. There is some stunning playing on that!

  45. #44
    Yeah Jack; strange things are starting to happen here when someone says the two words "Benson Picking"; and let's leave it at that.

    Just want to give my two cents and thank Peter for the amazing work he has been doing regarding the debunking of this specific way of playing/technique. It's amazing.

  46. #45

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    If I was Farrel I would have a T - shirt that says :

    "I KNOW I 'm not George Benson" with a smiley face on it ...lol...and I imagine he knows this far better than anyone else.

    Yet he can continue on and become Great...or on any given night or Tune play Great..and combine a lot of GB's Time feel and articulation ( more than most can -sounds like ) with his own ideas...

    Ironically he is going to get more flack for doing it even closer than many Others whom Benson inspired.

    I think Norman Brown who is Benson Inspired but uses a more common Pick Grip/ Technique and Paul Jackson Jr. would be good ' special guests ' to show that you can get a lot of that Flavor with other Pick Grips.....IME .
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 11-08-2017 at 04:43 PM.

  47. #46
    the interesting that is that both benson and ferrell have repeatedly said that it's not necessary to use the benson grip to get the benson sound. They've both said it's more about synchronization, relaxed and loose left hand grip and short notes.

  48. #47

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    Interesting commentary from Quincy Jones @12:30

  49. #48

  50. #49

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    I've been on George Benson track for some time and managed to figure out some things on my own. But, after just two lessons with Peter everything is now on the place where it should be.
    I wholeheartedly recommend his class trough Facebook group. Totally worth.

    Sent from my SM-C7000 using Tapatalk

  51. #50
    yeah, peter's the real deal *AND* benson hand picked him to write the curriculum for the Benson Academy so despite the naysayers, it was George who went to Peter for this. I think I trust George and Peter's recommendations!

    Quote Originally Posted by mikostep View Post
    I've been on George Benson track for some time and managed to figure out some things on my own. But, after just two lessons with Peter everything is now on the place where it should be.
    I wholeheartedly recommend his class trough Facebook group. Totally worth.

    Sent from my SM-C7000 using Tapatalk