The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    hi guys again some 7 nice videos



    also I'm trying to find John Scofield school,I had it but my sister deleted it from comp

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Lots of truly amazing stuff going on, but he doesn't explain any of his single note run note choices enough to really glean anything from it, or am I just stupid?

  4. #3

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    I bought the dvd and was really disappointed in it. He didn't seem to explain much of anything.

    Maybe it was just me. I'm going to have to watch it again to be sure. His playing came off as being kind of sloppy. This is not to bash him, I have some of his music and always been a fan.

    Maybe it was the production.

  5. #4

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    That is one reason why Workshop Live has the "Breezin Lounge". George can play anything, but apparently isn't a natural teacher. With the BL, Jody Fisher facilitates and draws all sorts of stuff out of George and then gives it a language, so students can pick it up. workshoplive.com if you are interested.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by derek
    That is one reason why Workshop Live has the "Breezin Lounge". George can play anything, but apparently isn't a natural teacher. With the BL, Jody Fisher facilitates and draws all sorts of stuff out of George and then gives it a language, so students can pick it up. workshoplive.com if you are interested.
    Well, I listened to all these examples too, and without buying the program to see if it get's better, it certainly seems like more of the same. I mean, he explains simple things in almost too much detail, but then glosses over the stuff everyone wants to know, like the thinking behind each note group as it relates to the chord. Very frustrating. I can understand if he doesn't wanna give away his tricks too easily, but why sell these programs under the misapprehension that he's willing to?

  7. #6

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    together with the book, everthing Benson explains becomes more clear.
    Useful is to record your favourite licks and slow them down with the same pitch with a free programm called "Cool Record Edit pro" and learn them by ear.

  8. #7

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    copping them by ear is fine, just like to know what the player is thinking. You can't know what Coltrane or Bird were thinking, but Benson is still with us, would be amazing to know how he develops and applies his ideas. Maybe there are various design "formulae" going on in his freak musical mind. Would love a glimpse......

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    Well, I listened to all these examples too, and without buying the program to see if it get's better, it certainly seems like more of the same. I mean, he explains simple things in almost too much detail, but then glosses over the stuff everyone wants to know, like the thinking behind each note group as it relates to the chord. Very frustrating. I can understand if he doesn't wanna give away his tricks too easily, but why sell these programs under the misapprehension that he's willing to?
    My understanding is, it has nothing to do with giving away his tricks too easily. He is simply not a teacher. Jody spent a week with him every day, and said he is just one of the most complete players he has ever seen, but clearly doesn't have a knack for teaching.

    He would have to be stopped frequently and asked to explain stuff. Based on the stuff Jody talked about, he gives it all away on the Breezin Lounge lessons, or at least the ones they have up at this point.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by derek
    My understanding is, it has nothing to do with giving away his tricks too easily. He is simply not a teacher. Jody spent a week with him every day, and said he is just one of the most complete players he has ever seen, but clearly doesn't have a knack for teaching.

    He would have to be stopped frequently and asked to explain stuff. Based on the stuff Jody talked about, he gives it all away on the Breezin Lounge lessons, or at least the ones they have up at this point.
    I agree to a large extent with the above statement- however-Jodie also did not ask the right questions to get George to expand. In one instance, he asks George if he could share some info on his right hand, and although George seemed to gloss over it, Jodie could have asked further probing questions to get George to go into more detail-Jodie just left it there-an anti-climax that could have been avoided with more detailed and expansive bridging questions.

    I have always found George to be very forthright with what he knows and willing to share, and when I asked him if I had his permission to share the key to his right hand picking with others outside of my personal students, he was more than happy and just said "Go ahead man, it's good that others learn, and I ain't going to be round forever!"

    So if you are a serious student, and understand the value of the information that could have been covered, but unfortunately was not- regarding GB's right hand picking technique, then here's your chance to invest in your future guitar playing ability: Jazz Guitar Coach

  11. #10

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    I just listened and played along with six out of the seven video clips and found them excellent. George Benson is a complete player and he plays naturally 'by ear', which is not to say that he doesn't know theory or that he cannot explain what he does. It is more that he plays what he hears. This is exemplified in his ability to play what he is scatting vocally. The connection in his brain to his hands is complete and he doesn't need to 'think about' what he is playing. He plays at the speed of thought or better as he improvises through the changes. Of course, George also plays his material along the lines of his recordings because he can sing his way through his musical changes.

    That is not to imply that he hasn't worked out parts or thought through his arrangements. But his facility with the guitar is such that he isn't thinking as he plays - he is listening and reacting. That ability comes with time and practice and talent. What George knows and expresses in his playing is not something that can easily be captured in words. It's in playing that he expresses himself. And I think what he played in these videos speaks volumes to those who understand where he is coming from. He makes many important points about varying the notes and progressions to keep it interesting and fresh, or about experimenting and not trying to imitate but rather to express your own voice and play from the heart. Essential communication.

    In this setting, some of George's playing can sound a bit rushed and almost sloppy - I think it's because he is trying to get a lot expressed in limited time and likely because that is how he 'noodles' on the guitar and experiments with new ideas and concepts. In fact he pointed out that once in a while he comes up with something valuable - an understatement but likely true in essence. What George Benson has to say is authentic and very valuable if you are ready to apprehend it. But this is not directed at the beginner. This is for those who have been around the block a few times and don't need a roadmap.

  12. #11

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    Very well said Targuit-Exactly! I have found many students today feel that unless someone gives them the exact chord-scale relationship, then provides the relative substitutes, then provides it written out ,plus put in Tab form so they can understand it more easily- then someone isn't teaching them properly. Rubbish!

    This is the trickle down effect of over teaching via schools. How does one thinks the greats of the past learnt? On the bandstand primarily via osmosis, and then trying to grab every piece of info off others who had it or could explain it.Do you think Wes pointed out everything exactly to George? No. George will tell you he just hung around and tried to pick stuff up.

    I have also found many who have been "spoon fed" every bit of info, not actually well cut out for live situations that might fall outside this box. Most jazz college guitarists might have a tough time on the bandstand with a DR Lonnie Smith for example, unless you REALLY knew your instrument so intuitively that it wouldn't matter what was played, because a real live performance with the Dr could be him just starting to play... and you just have to go with it. He's not going to tell you the name of the tune, or even what key he's in, and if you don't recognize the tune after a few bars you better listen like you have never before, because in a little while it's going to be your solo. What are you going to do? Say "no thanks- I don't know it". These days it's like "Jazz for Dummies". Not many are REALLY digging deep to develop their ability to unlock things for themselves, or developing their higher skillset levels. If you are going to pull out your iphone with the realbook app everytime you don't know a tune , you are probably the same type of player who needs it spoon fed teaching wise.

    Having said that, I DO go into every bit of minor detail in deconstructing and reconstructing George's right hand picking technique so others can adopt it-because this is something that has to be totally understood, and their are several parts that all have to work together. But don't you know, I even got a student who purchased my tutorial, and had access to support coaching for fine-tuning wanting to know if there was any "Tab" that he could follow! This is how conditioned today's students are. Even when someone give them the key to unlock a technique that is purely physical, and has no chord/scale relationship, or fingerboard positioning involved- the first thing they are looking for is the "Tab"! Makes you wonder who is really hungry to learn and cut out for this instrument.
    Jazz Guitar Coach

  13. #12

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    When I was coming up in the jazz scene, I had the good fortune to spend time with some really great players. Jim Hall, Bucky Pizzarelli, Billy Bauer, Rodney Jones. I would take a tape recorder with me (we're talking the '80's here) and record the lessons and then go home and transcribe everything they played. From my memory none of these guys were telling me about what scale choices they were making or how they thought theoretically about playing over certain changes. They just played stuff and I would record it and then go home and transcribe it. The next lesson I'd try and show them how much of it I'd be able to reproduce.
    This is the same way I see the DVD's of George Benson. He's inviting you into his home, and he's playing lots of stuff up close just as if you were in the room with him. That is the greatest gift of all. There's no secrets there. He's showing you exactly what he's doing. BUT, you have to do some of the leg work. Yes, it would be nice if we were there and could say, "Wait George. Stop there. What was that lick you played, man? That was incredible. How did you do that?" But we're watching a DVD so this is about as close as we can get to a private lesson.

  14. #13

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    Yea Mark, that's right. I know- I remember Mazza and I pointed you in the direction of Rodney in 92, and that's how it was back then.

    Jason

  15. #14

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    I still have those tapes of my sessions with Rodney packed away somewhere and the pages and pages of transcribed lines that I took from it. The best parts of the lessons were when we'd play duets on tunes and he'd play chorus after chorus of great solos. It was so inspiring to see and hear that up close. To this day probably half of everything I play comes from those sessions with him.

  16. #15

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    I've read some forum posts by Henry Johnson - who played with Jack McDuff's group after Benson and studied directly with Benson for some time - where he talked about how Benson walked him through a really progressive lesson plan on how to adapt and learn Benson's system for picking, fingering, etc. Johnson didn't share exactly what the steps were, but it sounded pretty methodical.

    I'd imagine that Benson was just trying to show some of his favorite stuff on the video. Anyone who wants to get inside the system would be better served by shelling out some coin for lessons with Rodney Jones, Henry Johnson, JC Stylles (on this forum), or even Benson himself. There's only so much you can convey in an hour long vid.

  17. #16

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    Henry Johnson knows what time it is.

  18. #17

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    http://74.205.63.134/cgi-bin/ccp51/c...tr=HOME:Improv
    Anyone know anything about this?
    I didn't think George was a big reader.

  19. #18

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    Different George Benson. This book came out in the 80's and was written by a top-notch Detroit sax player who came up with a lot of the Detroit bop legends.

  20. #19

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    Hello,

    I'm looking for the workshoplive breezin' lounge with george Benson but their website is down and I can't seem to find it anywhere else. Does anyone here have it or know another way to get it? I don't mind buying it from someone. Thank you very much

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by stratotheo
    Hello,

    I'm looking for the workshoplive breezin' lounge with george Benson but their website is down and I can't seem to find it anywhere else. Does anyone here have it or know another way to get it? I don't mind buying it from someone. Thank you very much
    I don't know about workshoplive but there are several Benson pickers around here, and JC Stylles---who got the nod from George to teach it--has a deal for members of this forum. Great tutorial (video) with additional coaching available. The guy can play.

    Also, setemupjoe (Mark C, above) really has this thing down too. There's a thread on this Forum in the "Players" section about "Benson picking," started by Phildo, another strong player well-versed in this technique.

  22. #21

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    That's great Mark thank you very much, I'll check them out. But I really want to get my hands on those lessons so if you hear anything about it please give me a shout. Cheers

  23. #22

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    @startotheo, I just go on the website. Apparently the Breezin Lounge has been taken down. There's no reference to it.

  24. #23

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    @startotheo...did you manage to track these down?

  25. #24

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    here's my favorite Benson story...

    i studied for a while with Richie Hart, a terrific bop'n'blues player who paid his dues through the organ-trio/chitlin circuit. his favorite players were Wes and Benson, and sometime during the 70's, he had an opportunity to take some lessons with Benson.

    he came to his lesson, and they started off by playing a tune, and Richie said he got "destroyed." but that's ok, because Benson was one of his idols.

    afterwards, Benson played a bunch of different chords and asked Richie to name them. now, Richie had already graduated from Berklee at this point, won "guitar player of the year" for his graduating class (the year after John Scofield won it), was a great reader and knew his harmony and theory inside and out. so he didn't have much trouble naming the chords Benson was playing, figuring it was some sort of test

    but after a while, Richie realized that Benson wasn't quizzing him as part of the lesson: Benson was asking him the names of all these chords because Benson himself genuinely didn't know what they were called. it was a big wake-up call, to say the least.

    and you can certainly see this in those "Art of Jazz Guitar" clips. Benson admits he can't really explain what he's doing (the line "I stopped giving lessons because I was learning more from my students and I felt bad" always made me smile in light of the story above).

    but there's still a wealth of information there if you're patient and willing to do some digging. the real good stuff starts in the 2nd clip, where he starts talking about blues.

    first thing to note is how intimate the connection between his lines and the actual chords are. he'll play a line, and then immediately play a chord corresponding to that line, or vica versa. his lines come from the chords, much like they did for Charlie Christian.

    i also love his ideas over what he refers to as "B natural" over the F7 chord... meaning B7, the tri-tone sub. if you listen carefully, you can hear him playing F natural in his lines over B7. if we put in modal/chord-scale speak, he's technically playing B lydian b7, or F superlocrian/altered scale. but he's absolutely not thinking about ANY modes, melodic minor or otherwise... he's thinking of it as B7 and coming up with altered lines by ear.

    another neat trick he does: over that same B7, he plays D#m7b5 up, then resolves it down a half step to Dm7b5 when it goes back to Bb7.

    all these terrific substitutions and altered sounds, but come up with in a way that's very natural and user-friendly.

  26. #25

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    Great post Dasein. I was trying to get with the 'B natural' thing myself...