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Many many options open to how to structure your study, how to learn to improvise and learn the tools of jazz.
One approach might be to take a song, or song form and use it as a base for study over the course of a week, beginning at a very slow speed, and increasing it to a target tempo by the end of the week.
Howard Roberts published a (long out of print) book called Super Chops in 20 weeks that laid out a weekly program. It by no means says you can't study other things, or that this is a solution to magically learn the canon of the idiom, but it is a program to bring you to a good level of proficiency and provide a basis for steady progress for about an hour a day commitment.
The idea is simple: Each day an exercise of chords based on common progressions that are really useful to master is recorded at a tempo. You work with this progression for a week. 6 days on, one off. An hour a day.
Chords are recorded as whole notes. Exercises are played as eighth notes. You bring all you know in a controlled way. No fancy embellishments. Eighth note focus. Find your strengths, find your weaknesses, know your abilities through committed dedication to a song based regimen.
The first week's study is based on a Cherokee progression. You can do all the peripheral research on this song and what it is, but once you sit down, it's you, the song, the instrument and doing it.
Anybody interested in sharing your observations, problems, issues, questions or posting backing tracks in any form, please do.
Be patient and let's see what happens. I'll attempt to keep up with posting the new chord charts on a weekly basis. I'll post again on the 23rd. Welcome aboard!
David
I don't have a rotating graphics program and the display options are strangely limited so if someone could rotate this or you can lean on your sides and here you go!
Oh yeah, I don't like the voicings given by him; they're fine but not natural to me so I just use my own voicings of the basic 7th chords here, root in bass. It works fine.Last edited by TH; 04-13-2017 at 02:17 PM.
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04-12-2017 10:57 AM
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I'm in!
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One source for the out of print book on PDF
Howard Roberts Super Chops - Documents
I'll assume you'll work on this through the week after Easter. I'll just post relevant pages on a weekly basis. Remember, if you're not having fun, you're not going to do it. I hope you enjoy the weeks ahead and post anything relevant.
David
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And may I add that the "Pointers" section is solid gold.
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Originally Posted by morroben
Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
I may just have to form a live weekly gathering of people here in Boston to do this together in real time. Anybody in the area that'd want to make this a live hang and support each other as we have some fun becoming better guitarists? I'll also say it's never too late or too early to work on anything at any tempo. Slow tempos are not for babies; fast ones for killer veterans. On the contrary, whenever Ben Monder is asked what the key to playing fast is, he always says practice slow, learn control and to think clearly as fast as your hands can move.
I'm hoping that if even a couple people find this useful, there'll be some happy players in our group.
David
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What do you think he means by playing eighth notes over the whole progression? Scales? Or just keep arpeggiating the block chords?
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Pretty sure it suggests combination of approaches depending on the player..? Single note improv on 8ths: Arps, scales. The analysis above changes facilitates key center approach if needed, but I'm sure you could be as specific as you like. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
Just skimmed the intro though...
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It's all open. Check out the PDF (link above). The preparatory material in this book is a great concise inventory of line shaping, pointers, tips and options, all of which are elements of real time solo construction. These exercises are as much practice of awareness as anything. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
In the days of big bands, a player would be surrounded by options and listening training 6 days week. Same here. You may start by thinking you have command of your resources but through use and permutations, you'll come to get past the technical and develop an awareness of how and why they're used; much of which is up to you.
Scales, arpeggios, direction changes, targeting a chord tone with a linear passage, beginning on roots, on thirds, etc, starting phrases on the 2nd note of the mode, arpeggios with tensions, all this and more. When you start playing them, and then are able to be comfortable with them, then you'll make sensual connections and you'll use them in forming a line. Motiv, dynamics, development of line, -they all come alive in the song form.
... and then you do it again tomorrow, a little faster.
Check out the pages that come before the ones I posted.
David
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Okay, I haven't read the intro, just looked at the first post above. So, it's about learning various chords, then applying key-centred soloing? I'll have a proper look at it later. Looks interesting.
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More than that, look at page 11 to 16. Various scales (including penatonic, chromatic, whole tone, diminished, harmonic minor, melodic minor), common tones, arpeggios, and interval leaps. It seems to me anything is game as long as you keep up the consecutive eighth notes. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
In trying to discern the primary objective. From page 6:
It must be remembered here that the main purpose of this book is to build up technical facility within the attitudinal sphere of improvisation and not give an additional load of theoretical data
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In project 1 he uses some chords that I don't know grips for, so that will be my first hurdle.
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How do we know what tunes these are? Am I missing something? I don't see the tunes named anywhere.
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Suuuuuupeeeeeeerrrrchooopppsss!!!
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No song names in the book to avoid copyright infringement. In practice chord progressions (without melody, song names, lyrics) are okay to use without running afoul of copyrights. Originally Posted by rlrhett
It's real handy to find out what tune/tunes the progressions are too. Folks will disclose that as this thread develops.
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Use your own voicings. I do that, nothing lost at all as long as the chord quality is clear and the root is in the bass. Seriously, I don't like those voicings. They're clear harmonically, but if I don't feel comfortable under my hand, it's an obstacle to getting them smooth on the recording. I don't see anything wrong at all with using better chords, but don't use voicings that add tensions unless qualified, and be aware of what you're doing (don't just grab your favourite hip 7#9 chord because it's a habit in your hand...)" Originally Posted by morroben
The goal is to get the tracks down in time and with clarity. Save your real work for what you do in the solo arena. That's my thought anyway.
David
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Here is a lesson 1 backing track .mp3 and for those with BIAB I've put the BIAB file out there .sgu. I prefer that you download the file, click the "...". (Playing the file in Box.net uses up my monthly usage allotment.)
Box | Simple Online Collaboration: Online File Storage, FTP Replacement, Team WorkspacesLast edited by fep; 04-14-2017 at 05:25 PM.
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Holy cow. After re reading, the first day is 48bpm! That's with 60 being the ending goal for the week.
Anyway, I recorded myself strumming whole notes at 48 and then did the rest of the routine for day one.
My thoughts:
1. I enjoy doing this, without respect to playing goals of any kind really.I'll take the improvements he claims will come, but I would almost do this simply for the relaxing meditative qualities of playing slowly.
2. My ears are much better than I would have imagined, before actually taking the time to play slowly enough to let them just work. I've always heard that standardized tests measure two different things: speed ave knowledge. well, I am kind of shocked by how much more my ears/fingers "know" when I slow down. Wider intervals, for example are much easier.
3. My internal critical/judgmental voice is basically shut down by playing slowly and limiting rhythmic content. It doesn't seem to have a context for really relating to this as normal music or music practice. I can almost relate to my own playing in third person.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 04-15-2017 at 03:58 PM.
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.pdf chord chart print form here:https://app.box.com/s/83xkzr9p1gvxzbr46eu5t6w5fmx19doq
Last edited by fep; 04-15-2017 at 04:39 PM.
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Bye-bye, cortisol! Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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How does that saying go? "If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together."
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Seriously... Originally Posted by destinytot
Bye-bye, cortisol!
I listen to a lot of Tim Ferris's podcasts , where he interviews leaders, innovators etc. of all types. Super successful people on many fronts. They basically approach things in numerous different ways, and there aren't many common denominator's between all these people and their different styles of approaching life, except for one: almost ALL meditate daily. This is actually a pretty extraordinary secret IMO.
Most aren't religious at all, in fact - majority atheist probably, but as a class of individuals, most see meditation as being vital to their general health and creativity/productivity.
Anyway, Howard Roberts was a groovy dude. The language in his introductory segment of this book certainly jobs with someone who would approach music in this way.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 04-15-2017 at 05:18 PM.
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Somehow this fourth one got deleted previously and magically showed back up in "insert previous?". :-)
4. It breaks some fundamental thinking patterns. At this tempo, things are actually SO slow that you can't really process it by overly thinking about changes in visual symbolic way as much . Almost like playing music which is too FAST to really facilitate "thinking".
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It's a thing that comes with practice. That's kind of the genius of this, Matt. Yeah, there's something that you can do, you do it at speed and you're OK, and you do it really slowly and it's OK but boring. But out of boredom comes the necessity to desperately do something new. Those tiny AHA moments you deny yourself when you're "at speed" are now part of your radar. Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
I was actually going to suggest that we all start at uber slow speed on Monday, and use the weekend to do this in the ways we usually play, a little faster, flirting with ho-hum boredom, finding the bored zone with our old vocabulary... then look at the introductary part of the book AFTER we've really seen the paper bag we find ourselves in when playing a solo.
There's some pretty deep psychology going on here when Real time meets the Thinking process. There's more than a week to sit in the room and look at your playing, right in the eye. Strangely enough, some people, a lot of people can play years, trying to play at the top of their tempo range, looking to other people's transcribed phrases to keep from facing the deficit of NOT HAVING GUIDING AWARENESS at the core of their craft.
If it seems slow, don't ask "When do we get to the good stuff?" but rather ask "What are my options and can I hear what I'm doing? Is there intention to my linear choices? Do I play the way I do to avoid that which I've never tried? Where is the door to the unexpected phrase?" If I can't find it at this speed, then how will I do it at speed?
THEN look at the mini course on inprovisational ideas at the start of the book and get some ideas.
It's not hard to play at this speed if it's about moving your fingers. But try to play thoughtfully, with awareness of where you can go, and how you make your choices, that's really hard.
20 weeks. It's worth the fear of confronting your thinking process.
David
This is a youtube clip I play when I need reminding of the benefits of having your shit together.
It's a solo of David Binney playing I Remember You. You don't play this way without being aware of what you're doing, and you don't get that way without starting slowly and mastering a large time space and then learning to compress it.
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I'm also interested to try this method. I think I will choose some songs, which I'm working at the moment for this and I'm gonna use Ireal Pro backing tracks for this purpose. Very curious to see, if this method will help my playing.
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Although I probably won't incorporate some of the stretchier voicings into my playing, I found they did open my ears a bit. For example, I usually use diminished chords as rootless 7b9 voicings. It dawned on me while trying out some of HW's dominant b9 voicings that I've never really listened to how the full chord relates back to the root.
Good stuff already and I haven't even tackled the actual exercise yet.
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I've been messing with it the last couple of days and I think I'm going to adapt the program to fit my needs. We have a list of songs that my instructor and I use for lessons, and we add a tune every so often. I haven't been doing lessons that long, so the list is still pretty short.
Autumn Leaves
Blue Bossa
I Could Write a Book
Billy's Bounce
St Thomas
Since it seems like most of the value is in starting extremely slow and gradually building speed, the 10 minute sets of 1/8 notes, and the mandatory 6 days a week, I'm just going to do that with my list of tunes.
That's 50 minutes. I can use IReal, but I'm going to try to use my looper as much as possible, so that I get some chord work in, too.
This should still leave me some time to work on the other things my instructor has for me. As well as leaving time for "real" school...I'm going back for an engineering degree at 40, so I'm not lacking homework.
If my teacher adds more songs to my list, I might have to adjust the 10 minute sets down to 7-8, or rotate songs on different days.
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I've had this pdf for a while now and thought about giving it a go, so maybe I'll tag along and see how long I keep up. I think it would be a good way to ingrain a few things I'm working on.
So is Week 1 starting now?
By the way, the iReal backing tracks for all of the tunes are available -- just search for "superchops" on the iReal forum.
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For the sake of conversation, here's how I plan on using the course. It gives me a way of practicing what I'm already working on in a structured and graduated format:
10 mins comping:
I have no interest in learning those HR voicings, so I'm going to spend 10 minutes practicing comping through the progression using improvised small voicings based on guide tones + extensions. This is challenging enough for now, but if I get frisky I can practice leading with dominants/ii-Vs, tritone subs, etc.
3 x 10 mins of steady 8th notes:
I'm working my way through Garrison Fewell's book at the moment, so I'm going to use that approach. So working through the progression using triads and melodic extensions, and targeting guide tones in various ways.
Not a bad way to spend 50 minutes!Last edited by Jehu; 04-17-2017 at 02:22 AM.
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Yeah......mere detail.....but check out the chapeau.
Yeah baby!
......as the man said.
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Burnin'! :-) Originally Posted by destinytot
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I discovered that I am unable to play mistake free through the progression even at 40 bpm. At that slow of a tempo I have to subdivide in 16ths and I am finding my attention scattered far and wide. I'm afraid there's probably not a practical tempo where I can remain absolutely error free-what do you folks recommend?
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The whole point is NOT to play 16ths. This is one of the greatest mistakes students make, to play too fast to avoid the discipline of learning to play slow. The goal is not to make it easy to move your fingers and feel good, it's to learn to feel great playing with the coordination of mind, hand and awareness. Originally Posted by wzpgsr
If you can't play eighths at 40, work on it daily. You have 50 minutes a day and 6 days this week.
Hint: If you work at it, stuff you didn't think you can do, stuff you avoid, stuff you continue to not do because you avoid it... gets done.
Really, you can't imagine that which you can't do, but keep at it and don't avoid the task and you may be surprized.
David
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Do you mean a specific section or just the whole thing? Originally Posted by wzpgsr
It's revealed weak spots in the progression for me. Stuff to practice in isolation later.
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To clarify, I am not playing 16ths, rather I have to subdivide in my head into 16th notes in order to play eighth notes at such a slow tempo.
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Monday, Originally Posted by Jehu
Let's do it!
You know, I've been playing for a long time now, and starting this program, just looking at the first page this weekend, I've found a LOT of things, playing weaknesses, technical avoidances that I have let shape my playing. SO good to do this.
I did this years ago. It was good but I didn't complete the 20 weeks at the time. Now it's actually an amazing experience in basic repair to go at this again.
Seeing the fingerboard possibilities in a new way, thinking further ahead, paying attention to dynamics...
Good stuff
David
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I seem to be getting through the A section okay. I think it's definitely revealing gaps! I'm going to keep pounding away at it. I'm sure I'll see progress by the end of the week. Will get better once I can stop staring at the chart. Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
I think I have a tendency to start out at a comfortable level, hanging out around the chord tones, maybe throwing in a passing tone or approach note here and there, but then I start getting a bit fancier, moving around more, and I'll botch a change, and pretty soon I'm yelling at the kids and breaking strings and playing triple time and wondering where my life took a wrong turn. :-)
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I like that it's basically open-ended, in terms of how far you want to go with techniques and approaches etc. I've never really done the key centered thing so much . I've mostly played around arpeggios etc.
I'm taking this opportunity to really just do more key center, using my ear. It certainly brings out specific things to practice at "other times", and I certainly will - but during the exercise, I'm just going to "quiet the nerd" down some.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 04-17-2017 at 09:52 AM.
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Damn, this is much harder than I even anticipated and reveals my lack of technique and fretboard knowledge. I picked Lullaby of Birdland as my first tune, since I'm working on it anyways. My focus is in chordtones / arpeggios and trying to connect them. Maybe I should start slower than 48 bpm, since I'm making mistakes (not hitting right notes, messing with alternate picking).
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Just curious, have you all got a copy of the preface material? Anyone need the Line Shaping information? Anyone want to post it?
So we're all on the same page... literally
David
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Just my personal opinion of course, but I feel that using a backing track instead of playing the chords for a solid 10 minutes (see step 5) might detract from my ability to get the changes off the paper and into my head (step 6). If you skip this step, you're missing 60 minutes of chordal work.
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I won't speak for anyone else, but I personally need it. I've done it for several days and am having easier time with memorizing the changes . I've never memorized this one and it's pretty busy . Originally Posted by wzpgsr
I use my own voicings but have kept Roberts melodic line from his voicings. I kind of like the idea of another constant , besides just the chord quality itself and root movement. It's mostly the melody of the tune at the beginning of each chord. It may be exactly that, now that I think of it. I would have to double check.
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I tried it today. A few observations
1. Playing the chords for 10 minutes (my own voicings) is pleasant and does help drill in the changes, but I'd rather play some kind of rhythm to work on comping.
2. On the lines, I found my playing boring. I guess that's an important first step, but still rather frustrating. I was using a lot of familiar licks to target the third of each chord. Perhaps the point is to notice those tendencies and then branch out.
3. I learned of this course several years ago when I was first getting into jazz. (Say, 4 years ago?) At that time, playing continuous eighths through such "complex" changes seemed impossible. Now, it's no big deal, barring a few clams and some underwhelming lines. So, progress, I guess.
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Here's some stuff
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I've always had great results practicing things very very slow, now I'm going to try this program and see what happens
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You can download the book here:
Howard Roberts - Superchops - Complete.pdf - Google Drive
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Done for the night. I went for 48 BPM even though I knew I couldn't hack it mistake-free—not even close. As for positives, I remember a few short moments when things actually sounded kind of cool. I spent a lot of time completely lost in the form, plucking the same eighth note over and over, listening for its resolution in the slow parade of chords. The most obvious sign post for me was that C+11 chord. The F# really sticks out, but have no idea how to handle it, especially in the key center of F.
It took me about two hours to do my 50 minute assignment. I recorded all three 10 minute takes, but these bad-boys are going deeeeep into the vault for safe keeping. Tomorrow night I should be a bit more organized and comfortable. I need to pound this form into my head and stop staring at the changes. That alone would improve things a lot for me.
I think my second take was probably the strongest. I felt quite a bit more comfortable second time through, and before the tedium of the third round hit me.
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You might also look up the tune Cherokee or Koko and listen to that tune (albeit much faster) to get an idea of the form and see the big picture. It's also a very catchy piece so enjoy it as a song, as music and take that with you as you're working the changes. Get it off book, and there, the listening really helps, and don't be afraid to strive to play the chords by ear. Originally Posted by wzpgsr
Maybe listening to the tune as a standard could also help you with the chords. Get them down once and just use them for the whole session. But I'm loving how people are using this as a chord exercise too!
David
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I have had this book as a pdf for a while now and was thinkin about starting a study group myself. I have some trouble with what to practice. To me the approach is very free, maybe to free for me. Look at this quote form fep:
I guess practicing arps starting on different chord tones is one good way but then what? What is a good way to practice these scales and arps? Originally Posted by fep
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You have 50 minutes a day and 6 days a week to figure that out. Originally Posted by Desm0nd
The whole point of this thread and the other I started on Commitment, enticement and satisfaction is to explore the role of self motivation and relating to actual musical sources as the central core to "keeping it real".
When you go into a song form, never lose track of the fact that in the end, you're trying to find music. That means it's up to you to find it.
For 50 minutes a day, you'll wrestle with your own abilities, your own limitations, your own boredom, your own frustration and your own little phrases you always come to and kick yourself over when you're done. Only this time, you make a mindful decision to do something else, based on the list of options you have in your mind.
Learning options and creating filters is the hardest and most rewarding part of creating music. I'm telling you now, the way you choose to practice, if you give it time to develop, will become your own style. If you chose to play just one note, nobody's going to arrest you. But if you get bored and say "Hey I can try to go from THIS note to THAT note, you'll soon discover that there are many ways to do that and mastering the line from point A to point B can be really enlightening.
Remember too, this is not the be all and end all. If you work on scale notes for 10 minutes, arpeggios for the next 10 and then mix them on the last, then you may find something about yourself by doing that. ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN AVOIDING DOING.
What you do today is a reflexion of who you are today. If you return and do this again next year, or 10 years from now, it will be another you that you'll know.
Jump in. Don't be afraid to sound like crap. Get your hands dirty. Play crap. When you're sick of that, you will discover something that no teacher can give you; and you'll make it into music. And it'll be yours.
David
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I'm in the middle of having a major declutter of what's to be my dedicated practice space, so I haven't yet started the work in earnest, but... Originally Posted by TruthHertz
It's already crystal clear that choosing limiting parameters works - and there's probably more 'freedom' in that than in the infinite possibilities where 'anything goes' (by which I bet I'm not alone in feeling paralysed).
By the way, could someone please point out where 48bpm is mentioned, please?
Thanks in advance.
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