The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76

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    Tomorrow is break day for week 1, and week 2 starts Monday?

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  3. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    Tomorrow is break day for week 1, and week 2 starts Monday?
    That's the schedule I'm on, yes.
    For those who know the book, you know there are some sample examples in the week's work. I haven't posted any of those, but if anybody wants, I can put those up in the middle of the following week's project. In other words, if anybody wants to see what ideas Howard Roberts suggested, I could post his Week 1 example some time later this week when we're in the middle of week 2. So it's not a distraction. They're not meant to be solos in themselves or even etudes, merely models of how one might've done the exercise.

    We start Cherokee in Db on Monday. Really enjoying the individual postings of recorded examples you're doing. It's feeling like a friendly group share. It's also a really nice chronicle of how much you will be improving. It's always a benchmark for me to record myself. It's the place I can solidly push off from at that point.

    Have fun
    David

  4. #78

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    I just stumbled across this thread. I'm really enthused about the idea of diving into Super Chops - I've had the book for a few years but have never gotten around to tackling it. Reading the postings in this thread has inspired me to give it a go.

    However, I'm a professor in my day job, and the next 3 weeks are some of the busiest of the year for me, so I won't be starting until mid-May. On the other hand, I have an entire summer to do nothing but writing and guitar playing, so once I have the time to devote, I'll be able to take it seriously.

    I'm not sure if I should join this study-group, however, if I'm going to be 4 weeks behind. I'm not sure if I'll have anything to contribute. I'll keep following and reading the thread, though.

    Is it worthwhile trying to start another HR study group for those who - like me - missed the boat on this one?

    Thanks.

  5. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Socraticaster
    I just stumbled across this thread. I'm really enthused about the idea of diving into Super Chops - I've had the book for a few years but have never gotten around to tackling it. Reading the postings in this thread has inspired me to give it a go.

    However, I'm a professor in my day job, and the next 3 weeks are some of the busiest of the year for me, so I won't be starting until mid-May. On the other hand, I have an entire summer to do nothing but writing and guitar playing, so once I have the time to devote, I'll be able to take it seriously.

    I'm not sure if I should join this study-group, however, if I'm going to be 4 weeks behind. I'm not sure if I'll have anything to contribute. I'll keep following and reading the thread, though.

    Is it worthwhile trying to start another HR study group for those who - like me - missed the boat on this one?

    Thanks.
    I would think you can just jump in here when you're ready. You'll be playing a different progression, but I expect the stuff we'll be discussing won't be tied as much to the particular progressions we're playing, and will be generally applicable.

  6. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Socraticaster
    I just stumbled across this thread. I'm really enthused about the idea of diving into Super Chops - I've had the book for a few years but have never gotten around to tackling it. Reading the postings in this thread has inspired me to give it a go.

    However, I'm a professor in my day job, and the next 3 weeks are some of the busiest of the year for me, so I won't be starting until mid-May. On the other hand, I have an entire summer to do nothing but writing and guitar playing, so once I have the time to devote, I'll be able to take it seriously.

    I'm not sure if I should join this study-group, however, if I'm going to be 4 weeks behind. I'm not sure if I'll have anything to contribute. I'll keep following and reading the thread, though.

    Is it worthwhile trying to start another HR study group for those who - like me - missed the boat on this one?

    Thanks.
    I've had a few people in your boat. I think it'd be fun to launch another boat this summer, maybe at the conclusion of this one.
    One thing I've found is that you learn an enormous amount about yourself and your own playing and the pace of this course is really conducive to the self motivated curriculum. In other words the pace is great to really look at specific areas of study since it starts out slow and keeps the progress steady.
    It also means that when I began again, at baby step pace 40bpm, it was REALLY challenging for a professional musician with a real music school degree under my belt. I wish I'd done this instead. It's actually harder now.
    Of course I have new things to bring to the 50 minutes. Dynamics, awareness of right hand technique on different phrases, intervallic and motific lines... So really going back after one run through is REALLY rewarding!

    It's designed to be done by yourself, but I do think it'd be fun to have a concerted group at some time in the future, for us to all be emboldened to work and post our thoughts and all celebrate that which we find by simply doing the walk.

    My thoughts anyway.
    David

    50 minutes goes by REALLY fast!

  7. #81

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    I had a few days to prepare before the first week. This time I had a few hours. I spent 2 hours tonight trying to get it together. The key change was a little overwhelming. Towards the end I started to get sone stuff going, but overall very rough night.

  8. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    I had a few days to prepare before the first week. This time I had a few hours. I spent 2 hours tonight trying to get it together. The key change was a little overwhelming. Towards the end I started to get sone stuff going, but overall very rough night.
    Don't I know it! I'm glad you posted this. I know the first impression might be "Same song, easy peasy" but with the root up a 4th, you'll most likely be working with different string sets.
    I remember my first year in music school. I had to write a composition based on some harmonic parameter. I thought it was impossible. I sweated, panicked and I worked endlessly on it. It seemed impossible each step of the way. But when I was done, I had an incredible amount of knowledge and each composition after that was its own challenge but it was never as hard as the first one.
    So note: First day of the new project is the toughest. I wish you could see yourself at the end of the program. Toughest day is done.
    Congrats
    David

  9. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    I had a few days to prepare before the first week. This time I had a few hours. I spent 2 hours tonight trying to get it together. The key change was a little overwhelming. Towards the end I started to get sone stuff going, but overall very rough night.
    Well, week 2 tune 2 here as well. I agree that again the first day was tricky, but today felt already a bit easier. I started this week at 50 BPM, so still pretty slow going (today 52). This 3 x 10 min feels just about right. I think doing more reps would start come boring and it would be even harder to keep concentration. Only thing that might be worth adding to program would be melody playing for 10 min.

  10. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jhui
    Well, week 2 tune 2 here as well. I agree that again the first day was tricky, but today felt already a bit easier. I started this week at 50 BPM, so still pretty slow going (today 52). This 3 x 10 min feels just about right. I think doing more reps would start come boring and it would be even harder to keep concentration. Only thing that might be worth adding to program would be melody playing for 10 min.
    52 seems like lightspeed to me. I was struggling at 40 yesterday. I might back off to 37 or so.

    I have a hard time hearing the melody over the changes to Cherokee at such a slow tempo, because I'm used to hearing it played at lightning speed. But, if I can get the melody in my head better at this tempo, I'd like to target the melody notes during my improv.

  11. #85
    Roberts chord voicings have the melody notes for "the moment" of the chord. I'm not using his voicings but I am keeping that aspect . See if you can put the melody on top of the chords on the downbeats.

  12. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jhui
    I think doing more reps would start come boring and it would be even harder to keep concentration...
    Only thing that might be worth adding to program would be melody playing for 10 min.
    Boredom has been my strongest ally and critic. It's boredom that has forced me to search for my limitations. The slow speed is a great and unforgiving "radar" for boring habits I use. Yes, 50 minutes is a good amount of time though, there's a natural threshold for ideas.

    Keep in mind that, yes this is based on the changes for Cherokee, but this is NOT a Cherokee exercise. Seek the original melody in yourself, and look to pieces like Koko for ideas. Anybody thought of taking a chorus of Koko and slowing it down to 40?

    Well there are lots of suggestions but you all know what will keep you engaged and moving. Have fun

    David

  13. #87

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    One thing Week 2 has taught me so far is that my brain malfunctions when I see a Gb or Cb chord.

  14. #88

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    Last week we looked at the Bb changes. From that week, here's one suggestion of things that could've been incorporated into a 10 minute session. Just to give you ideas of the devices, range, note choices available to you.
    David

    Howard Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-fullsizerender-11-jpgHoward Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-fullsizerender-12-jpg

  15. #89

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    When playing these exercises, how is everyone articulating their stream of eighths? I'm playing very straight and even, although tonight I got bored and started playing with the dynamics a bit--still very straight but varying volume and accents a bit.

  16. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    I have a hard time hearing the melody over the changes to Cherokee at such a slow tempo, because I'm used to hearing it played at lightning speed. But, if I can get the melody in my head better at this tempo, I'd like to target the melody notes during my improv.
    I don't hear/follow melody at all to be honest. My song is Night and Day, but I guess the tune doesn't matter here. My playing is pretty mindless noodling using the chord tones + scale tones. I'll try to stick to even 8'th notes and I don't really see how can I get that to sound even remotly melody like. I dunno, am I missing something here? I do have the lead sheet in front of me with lyrics.

  17. #91

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    Nah. Mine often feels mindless as well. I was thinking that targeting melody notes might provide more of a scaffolding but it's certainly not necessary.

  18. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jhui
    I don't hear/follow melody at all to be honest. My song is Night and Day, but I guess the tune doesn't matter here. My playing is pretty mindless noodling using the chord tones + scale tones. I'll try to stick to even 8'th notes and I don't really see how can I get that to sound even remotly melody like. I dunno, am I missing something here? I do have the lead sheet in front of me with lyrics.

    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    Nah. Mine often feels mindless as well. I was thinking that targeting melody notes might provide more of a scaffolding but it's certainly not necessary.
    .

    The ability to create melody and the ability to play with all your facilities at your fingertips are two different things but certainly related. These exercises will make sure the notes are there for you and your hands, ears and thinking process are mastered.
    All too often, this step is neglected and in the pursuit to play melodies, players will take on the strengths of other people (through transcription) or their own set of strengths (to play what's easy for you) and neglect the possibilities of things they never really mastered.
    I do think it's natural to find good melody elusive at first. Especially given the format of this exercise, elements of melody like different note values and the use of space, they're both enormously important in a good melody.

    But there are also things that, once your fundamental ear, finger and thinking process is in place, allow you to react, create and conceive ideas that make good music.
    Do you have time outside of the 50 minutes to write a phrase a day, without the 8th note restriction? Compose a line on the first two changes?
    Are you using melodic ideas like motifs? Can you take an idea and begin it on a specific note of the chord and complete an arc of an idea?
    Can you repeat that idea on the next chord?
    Can you take that idea and turn it around and answer it with a line going in the other direction?
    Can you use dynamics to make a statement softly, then think of an appropriate response played a different volume?
    Might you think of the notes you use as a conversation, some musical version of two people speaking to one another?
    Can you be aware of what you just played, and maybe go for "different" in some way for what follows? Wider intervals... line built in thirds... fourths... and then ending it with a concluding idea based on the melody of a particular piece.
    Make a notebook of melodic ideas and call it line strategies, look at the beginning pages of the Roberts book and keep fresh ideas to try on a 3x5 card before each 10 minute session. Just as long as you don't "zone out" and play without intention or purpose.

    Be true to your idea of playing and really polish it with these exercises, and strive to remain thoughtful. The melody will come to you. Maybe it will sneak up, maybe it'll come in a bold of lightning, but keep the foundation strong and it'll come.

    David

  19. #93

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    I joined the 40 bpm club last night. After my initial 10 minute break-in session I worked on finding the connecting notes from chord to chord by ear, on one string. It was really relaxing, as matt.guitarteacher said sort of meditative. Doing this helped me hear the progression better at the slow tempo. I'm definitely feeling some improvement. Still having problems fully letting go of the chart.

  20. #94

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    Here's the next week's project. This week's target speed is 84. We're working with D tonality and turnarounds. Lots of exercise with dominant harmony.
    Have fun!
    David

    Howard Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-2a-jpgHoward Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-2aside-jpg

    Well that annoying sideways thing seems to be vexing me here. Anyone who'd like to right this would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by TH; 04-29-2017 at 11:28 PM.

  21. #95

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    I could have sworn there was a post that listed the actual tunes that these progressions are taken from but I'm having trouble finding it. Could someone help me out and tell me what the tune is for week 3?

    Thanks!

  22. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    I could have sworn there was a post that listed the actual tunes that these progressions are taken from but I'm having trouble finding it. Could someone help me out and tell me what the tune is for week 3?

    Thanks!
    Weeks 1 & 2 = Cherokee AKA Koko
    Weeks 3 & 4 = Angel eyes
    Weeks 5 & 6 = Baubles, bangles and beads (?)
    Weeks 8 & 9 = All the things you are
    Weeks 10 & 11 = Blues for Alice

  23. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    I could have sworn there was a post that listed the actual tunes that these progressions are taken from but I'm having trouble finding it. Could someone help me out and tell me what the tune is for week 3?

    Thanks!
    I did want to go through all these projects week by week at some point. This isn't the way I play Angel Eyes and I wanted to make sure the changes actually matched up with the tunes suggested in that group of pieces.
    Anybody have any opinions on week 2A?

    Thanks
    David

  24. #98

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    Walking round the track before the race is brilliant and profound.

    I'm finding that I have abundant time (and multiple opportunities) to formulate lines, fingering and picking at this slow pace.

    On the other hand, I really noticed my limitations on last night's gig. I played to my strengths, and I daresay the gig went very well - but it wasn't as fulfilling as I know it could have been.

    Walking round the track makes it possible to identify, measure and practise what would otherwise not be so.

    I'm also finding that I can transfer to the process I'm calling 'walking round the track' some of my approach to other styles - 'being myself' and 'keeping it real'. I'm encouraged by this because I know vulnerability to be an asset.

    This programme is brilliant.

  25. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot

    This programme is brilliant.
    It really is. I can feel my understanding of the fretboard expanding, and it's so nice being "forced" to work through entire tunes rather than allowing myself to get stuck on one four bar section.

  26. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    I did want to go through all these projects week by week at some point. This isn't the way I play Angel Eyes and I wanted to make sure the changes actually matched up with the tunes suggested in that group of pieces.
    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    Anybody have any opinions on week 2A?


    I have no idea what this tune is, but I don't really see how it could possibly be Angel Eyes. It is, however, a hell of a ii-V workout.

    Hey, question for David and/or the rest of the group: I know HR says to pick your tempo for the day based on how quickly you can play through perfectly. How literally are you taking that?

    I have been picking a tempo that is challenging for the things I'm currently working on, but at which I am hitting it most of the time -- so about 80-90% success (i.e., 10-20% clam territory). At the beginning of Week 3, this means hovering around 60bpm, so still pretty leisurely.

    "Perfection is the enemy of progress" and all that.