Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 7 of 37 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast
Posts 151 to 175 of 907
  1. #151

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    When you say you're ignoring the passing chords and subs, do you mean you're recording the chords in a more vanilla fashion? I've been using HR's changes as written for chords, but find that improvising over them as if they were the vanilla chords often sounds pretty good.
    Ah, sorry, I mean ignore them for the single-note soloing. I use them when recording the chords.

    And honestly, I've been using ireal book backing tracks often, depending on if I have time to play the chords, or just the soloing. Someone created versions in ireal of the Superchops changes, which I found and downloaded.

    It deprives me of the benefit of playing the chords, but it lets me fit the program in over my lunch break!

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #152

    User Info Menu

    I've been focusing on hitting every change, passing chord, and sub, but being mindful of their function (as a ii-V-I unit, for example). That has really been what is keeping the tempo back for me and it takes a lot of discipline, but for what I'm working on and what I'm trying to get out of this I think it is important. One thing I'm specifically working on is leading between the chords either directly or via enclosures, etc.

    The only things I'm ignoring for the most part are HRs extensions. If I see #9/#5/b9 etc. I just play something altered, or maybe just straight dominant. The exception is where it really matters to the song, for example distinguishing between the min(maj7) and min7 in Angel Eyes.

  4. #153

    User Info Menu

    Just to add regarding the "what I'm trying to get out of this" thing: A more macro goal is to be able to hit all of the changes, with the result of being able to choose and make a musical decision, rather than being stuck with a simplified approach as the only option.

  5. #154

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    Have any of you improvised a set of simpler changes over the chords?

    That is, when your harmony is, say, a iii-vi, do you think of these chords as the I and use chord tones of the I?

    During a two measure ii-V7alt do you treat each measure as just V7alt (or just ii) or do you isolate each chord separately and focus on the chord tones of each chord?

    Over tritone subs (say D7alt subbing for Ab7) do you use chord tones and approaches from the actual V7 or from the sub?
    Gasser, do you have anyone within reach of you that you could play with? I ask because one really strong way to get around "trying" and turning it around into "doing" is to have fun. Nothing more fun than playing, stumbling, falling and laughing with a playing partner. It also gets you to hearing, feeling, being aware of time and discovering much faster than working alone. Or that's been my experience.
    The panic and satisfaction in working with another person makes the changes, the moods, the flow of the chords much more real in a way I can't describe.
    Just thought I'd throw that out there
    David

  6. #155

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    Gasser, do you have anyone within reach of you that you could play with? I ask because one really strong way to get around "trying" and turning it around into "doing" is to have fun. Nothing more fun than playing, stumbling, falling and laughing with a playing partner. It also gets you to hearing, feeling, being aware of time and discovering much faster than working alone. Or that's been my experience.
    The panic and satisfaction in working with another person makes the changes, the moods, the flow of the chords much more real in a way I can't describe.
    Just thought I'd throw that out there
    David
    Yeah, I should probably get back on that horse. I was gigging in a jazz guitar duo for a while but it has fallen by the wayside. Lots of excuses why, but I know I know I should be more active in that regard. I'll consider this a kick in the pants and start scheduling more duo practice and gigs.

  7. #156

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Socraticaster

    So far I haven't really noticed any improvements transfer over to my soloing when playing over changes in a live setting, ...
    Hi Travis!
    For some, this is an exercise in proficiency. It's a really good way to look at ideas that make up a solo and focus on the thought process, learning to hear when you move your fingers, getting the time right... all things that so many of us look back on and say "I wish I'd paid attention to that when I was starting out-".

    But this program can also be really useful for the seasoned improvisor. I'm having a ball having the chance to slow the notes down and have that luxury (challenge) to speed up my thinking process.
    I've often thought that the real enemy of an exceptional solo (or composition) is a reliance on safety. By that, I mean playing out of habit, taking the safe route instinctually so you don't mess up, or letting your fingers take you where you've gone too many times before. For a seasoned player, these 20 weeks can be an amazing way to re-learn the role of thoughtful listening and a deeper decision making process in real time.

    Have you been working on playing motifically? Using the space to find good melodic material and developing it?
    Have you been working with dynamics as a way to accent notes and passages?
    Have you employed melodic embellishments as a way of using chromatics and dissonance and resolution?
    How about crossing the bar line, that's hard to do if you haven't gotten the sound down; here you can.
    Y'know you can change the harmony in a line, use secondary dominants where they're not written as a way of becoming fluent in playing "outside" briefly (Michael Brecker type lines).
    Take out the things you wouldn't normally use: creating a line out of 4ths, or 7ths (or 9ths!).
    You have an idea or line contour. Can you play it in reverse? It's a really interesting sound. You can do it, much easier, learn to do any of the above WHILE THE TEMPO ALLOWS THAT EXPLORATION.
    Who knows, even in week three, there could be a gold mine of ideas that just needed to be brought to the forefront of your thought/playing process.

    That's how you get those things that people stop you and say "What WAS that?!" and it becomes something that DOES show up in your live playing. We're learning to think differently. With that comes an ability to feel deeper.
    Let us know how it's going!
    I'm looking forward to hearing!
    Hope you're having fun-

    David

  8. #157

    User Info Menu

    Great news -- I'm officially off book on this one! (Just in time to change keys!)

    This morning my brain malfunctioned and I forgot we were doing triplets for the first 10 minute set. When I moved to triplets for the second round, I noticed that it was actually (very slightly) easier! I think this has to do with two things:
    1) With triplets you have more notes with which to outline the harmony, and so fewer micro-decisions to make. So if a chord lasts for two beats, you have 6 notes with which to address it and set up the next change rather than 4. (I guess this doesn't apply so much if you are chunking together ii-Vs, for example. Probably also depends a lot on what you're working on.)
    2) There seems to be a sort of illusion when the physical technique is continuing to increase in tempo but the changes are slower than where we were in previous weeks. It's a weird feeling, almost like rising above the physicality of the instrument to more clearly hear the changes. A very rare thing for a low-level schmuck like me.

    At the end, just for the hell of it, I tried playing triplets at HR's target tempo of 96. I definitely couldn't keep up, but was surprised that it didn't seem ridiculous or unobtainable.

  9. #158

    User Info Menu

    Congrats on being off book. I think my brain has holes in it. I am not totally there yet, but with each new song I seem to be getting closer. I put the chart away for my third go-round tonight. Several clunkers, but it's definitely freeing. I'm only a few BPM slower now with triplets than I was with eighths so I'm considering that an accomplishment.

  10. #159

    User Info Menu

    Howard Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-screen-shot-2017-06-10-5-25-57-pm-pngAttachment 43096Here're some thoughts and examples from Howard Roberts on the use of triplets on this week's project.

    Attachment 43093Howard Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-fullsizerender-27-jpgHoward Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-fullsizerender-28-jpgHoward Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-screen-shot-2017-06-10-3-29-46-pm-png

    I still don't know why the upload scrambles the order here but you can figure it out. That's pg 2,3,4,1

    David

  11. #160

    User Info Menu

    Howard Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-fullsizerender-25-jpgHoward Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-fullsizerender-26-jpg

  12. #161

    User Info Menu

    I got a bit obsessed this week with figuring out how to handle the C-7 | D7#9#11 modulation to Db. After a few days of frustration with this, I took a look at what Roberts
    uses. Pretty sure he's pulling notes from a D diminished scale. Whatever you want to call it, I really love the sounds of those half-step resolutions to Db. I made a 5-note scale that is an Ab minor pentatonic with a #11. That sounded cool, too. This week, I think, the most important work I did was outside the 50 minutes, just looping sections, playing a lot of whole notes and listening to them resolve. I have a long way to go to use this stuff meaningfully in the rigid confines of the 50 minutes regimen, but on the positive side I'm hearing lots of good stuff in my head. Just need to get better/faster at getting the sounds out of my head and into my fingers.

    Psychologically, I'm battling the impulse to simplify the changes. I'm not sure I'm benefiting a lot when I can't memorize the changes and find the notes fast enough. Maybe less subs and altered chords would be a better fit for my current level of development.
    Last edited by wzpgsr; 06-10-2017 at 10:27 PM.

  13. #162

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr

    Psychologically, I'm battling the impulse to simplify the changes. I'm not sure I'm benefiting a lot when I can't memorize the changes and find the notes fast enough. Maybe less subs and altered chords would be a better fit for my current level of development.
    Wow, you're really getting into some great stuff! Pretty amazing!
    Y'know every step in your development there will be tons of things you don't know... and beyond that, a world of things you can't even imagine. My feelings lean heavily towards beginning to recognize your strengths and really developing them. In simplifying the changes, you may come to a stronger sense of diatonic colours and either becoming restless with them will turn you to more advanced harmony, or you'll come up with depths of exploration and sounds that we haven't heard, simply because you found something you love.

    I've revisited lots of material over my years, stuff I thought I knew, and at each visit, I found that having developed sharper vision in the interim, I can see a lot more. That's the strength and great thing about cyclical learning, you keep moving up, but you keep revisiting the old stuff too.

    You'll do what you need to do, but I'm thinking that if you don't hear something now, you will later, often from listening to someone else. I wrestled with a tune Leibesleid, by Kurt Weill. It was a tune Mick and Wolfie turned me onto. When I read it off the page, I could play it, but never by ear (It starts in one key, and ends in another. Freaky, eh?) well one day I found a version on YouTube. I listened and all at once, it made perfect sense. The point being, keep your ears open but don't get tied down with things you're not ready to hear.
    How do you know the difference? That's what comes with time.

    I don't follow the changes, if we're being honest. I've come to love the whole tone scale. I'm always finding new ways to use it. So when I see a 7th chord being specifically outlined for very exact voicings, I don't play them. That's one bridge to the chord on the other side, and my ear has its own bridges. That's me. Your personality will determine your likes and dislikes and the respect that is due a piece of music.
    If you get to the end of each week and you're in a better place, then wow! You've done something that many guitar owners I know haven't done in years of being guitarists.

    That's my feeling anyway.
    You're paying your dues. Things like ear training, scale knowledge and the lyric line come in their own time if you are persistent.

    It's jazz. You make up the way.
    David

  14. #163

    User Info Menu

    Tonight's practice was by far the most comfortable I've been with a key change. Feeling good about that. In lieu of improv, I focused tonight on running scales that correlated either to tonic or dominant of the key of the moment. I realized halfway through my third 10 minute run that I need to become a lot more disciplined at this point with something that's probably very basic: shifting to a fingering for the key centering when the key centers change. This is what I believe HR recommends in the book, and I'm pretty sure David mentioned something a couple of weeks ago about anticipating the changes of key centers and recognizing that this might require a position shift. I guess sometimes it takes some time to realize what and why your teachers are teaching you what they're teaching you.

  15. #164

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    Tonight's practice was by far the most comfortable I've been with a key change. Feeling good about that. In lieu of improv, I focused tonight on running scales that correlated either to tonic or dominant of the key of the moment. I realized halfway through my third 10 minute run that I need to become a lot more disciplined at this point with something that's probably very basic: shifting to a fingering for the key centering when the key centers change. This is what I believe HR recommends in the book, and I'm pretty sure David mentioned something a couple of weeks ago about anticipating the changes of key centers and recognizing that this might require a position shift. I guess sometimes it takes some time to realize what and why your teachers are teaching you what they're teaching you.
    Wow, a huge development! It means you're at the first step to really hearing and feeling the landscape of the piece. You'll notice that with each shift, there'll be a different feel. Maybe stick to an area within a key area for a little while but eventually, even within that area, you'll feel different "regions" that have a different mood, and you'll shift for that. Yes, you'll notice that in the project, the A sections that repeat in different keys, within them you've got a shift from what feels like a minor area to major area. To really get the juice out, you'll have different fingers that are your strong fingers.
    I have a few finger positions (start with a strong finger, like middle finger on do when I'm in major- index on root in minor... those kinds of things) that will put me "in the mood". And when you're ready, these will connect with travel along a string up and down the neck.

    Too, outside of the 50 minutes, work with shorter phrases. By this I mean you can use space to isolate key areas and hear ideas.

    Maybe for those who are looking to create more substantial or interesting solos, you can work on having a target note or two within each key phrase and spend your time strategizing how to get there. You can begin a phrase before any given first beat with things like a pickup note (or even single or multiple chromatic approach notes-even though HR says this is not our goal here) to try and create a feeling of movement.
    Targeting a note as the "peak" or pitch goal of a phrase lets you become aware of "forward thinking" and using your available notes to get there. Scale passages, upper and lower neighbors, sequences (121, 232, 343 -or 131, 242, 353... anything... 171, 2 up to 1 2 for a really angular sequence... The use of these conscious note combinations will introduce sounds and intervals you might not normally use. This will become a lexicon or vocabulary that you'll eventually use without conscious effort, and at this speed you can really be aware.

    Try beginning the phrase with different notes. Make an effort NOT to begin a phrase a certain way if you notice habits you're forming (like 123...)

    Be aware of where and how your phrase or note combination is ending. Try ending it on the 3rd beat and use the eighth notes of the 4th beat to lead into the next key area or chord. This will really increase your tension and sense of flow and purpose.

    Just a few ideas to work with. I hope you're all feeling some progress. Great going gasser! Weigh in and leave comments, ask questions and have fun!

    David

  16. #165

    User Info Menu

    I was wondering, what would be the rythmic counterpart to Super Chops?

    I feel this is a fantastic discipline to get together my competancy in scales, arpeggios, and mapping the fingerboard. However, I've noticed lately that my solos often lack rhythmic variety and groove. So I'll be thinking about a long-term course of study to cultivate that.

    This is such a great program, but the constant eight notes and triplets don't cultivate rhythmic variety, and phrasing.

  17. #166

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by dingusmingus
    I was wondering, what would be the rythmic counterpart to Super Chops?

    I feel this is a fantastic discipline to get together my competancy in scales, arpeggios, and mapping the fingerboard. However, I've noticed lately that my solos often lack rhythmic variety and groove. So I'll be thinking about a long-term course of study to cultivate that.

    This is such a great program, but the constant eight notes and triplets don't cultivate rhythmic variety, and phrasing.
    I do know what you mean. One option is to take this format, a tune a week from slow to graduated speed and do it with a rhythmic focus. I think awareness of rhythm vocabulary is the most harmful omission as a beginner. Jazz is SO rhythmic.
    Developing a sense of rhythmic and melodic phrasing is an important endeavor.
    Have you peeked at the thread on using etudes to develop an improvisational vocabulary? I started that to address a lot of things that compliment this thread.
    I actually talk about space and rhythm a bit there.
    Listen to good drummers, Art Blakey and Kenny Clarke are terrific.
    This is a great question! So much to discuss.
    I look forward to exploring this more! Thanks for posting it
    David

  18. #167

    User Info Menu

    Time for my semi-monthly self-flagellation. Here's one chorus from tonight, 38 bpm, triplets. I have a bit of trouble subdividing into triplets at such a slow tempo and I can't figure out how to get Logic's click metronome to click in triplets. I've been working on chromatic approaches outside of this study group, so there's an (over)abundance of those. Craving space, I definitely drop out of triplet time on occasion. Anyways, just one chorus to journal my progress.


  19. #168

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    Time for my semi-monthly self-flagellation. One chorus
    nicely done. You're meeting and getting the important changes. Especially early in the week.
    Just for kicks, how about at the last section, you follow the chord with a walking bass line on the quarter notes, on your backing track? This could relieve the pressure of "making the changes" and let you try a little melodic construction. Just an idea to bring out your melodies.
    Some other challenges you can play with, set a note to get to, intervalically, and experiment with ways to get there. Ex: the pitch goal could be the root, an octave up. You can begin where you'd like, and figure ways to get there. Then depending on where in the measure that is, turn around and reverse direction.
    Another ear challenge is to hear ideas that combine stepwise (scale notes) with leaps (arpeggio or wider intervals).
    Triplets. One experiment could be to play a strong note on the first triplet note, and on the third note, something that leads you or feeds you into the next triplet or change.
    These are things to kinda wake up your ear and move you from your safety zone in your fingers, and move you to flight mode- with your ears.
    Give it time, and keep that goal on the horizon. When it comes, I bet I'll hear the yell from here!
    Beautiful progress! Can't wait to hear the next step!
    David

  20. #169

    User Info Menu

    I had to cut practice short last night due to a storm. My amp and my kids were crackling with electricity. I got maybe halfway through before I had to pull the plug. Tonight I was feeling particularly cavalier and cranked the metronome up to 40. Everything was just sort of clicking for me tonight. I managed to hit a lot more of the changes than I normally do, and even broke free at times from some of the patterns I had fallen into. Sorry, Howard, but after two pretty successful 10 minute runs, I decided to see what I could do free of the rhythmic constraints. I haven't done a whole lot of improvising outside of this study group since we started it, so it was really cool to see how my ear has opened up. Wider intervals, motifs, melodic lines, a few ideas from David's etudes thread. I did use the book a bit, but not too much, and played a lot by ear. Very fun and a good confidence builder.
    Last edited by wzpgsr; 06-16-2017 at 11:00 PM.

  21. #170

    User Info Menu

    Week 10! This week's project is a blues in C, with changes that sound to me like Charlie Parker's Blues for Alice and kinda like the first part of Confirmation, without the bridge. See what you think of it.

    How's it going with you guys? Any thoughts on how you're going about negotiating these changes? Thinking in terms of line? Thinking of line contour? Thinking of melodic structures or phrases? Do you think from the start of a change and see where it goes, or are you thinking of a pitch note you're going to and constructing your note choices to meet that note goal? I'm very curious to see how people are doing, and whether our discussions and shared thoughts are helpful in making soloing a richer experience.
    Hope things are giving you satisfaction!

    David

    The lesson, the changes and a note from HR

    Howard Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-screen-shot-2017-06-18-4-04-31-pm-pngHoward Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-screen-shot-2017-06-18-4-04-57-pm-pngHoward Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-screen-shot-2017-06-18-4-05-25-pm-png

  22. #171

    User Info Menu

    I'm going to continue something that I started working on towards the end of the last: targeting thirds.

  23. #172

    User Info Menu

    Like gasser, I've basically been targeting thirds as well. More specifically, leading from the 7 of the previous chord to the 3rd of the new chord, either directly or indirectly. While I'm doing this I'm trying to carve out an interesting contour using arpeggios and passing scale tones. I wouldn't say I'm targeting the goal note at the beginning of the change; it's more like I try to make an interesting line and when I get close (e.g., beat 3ish) I find a nearby 3rd to target. I'm making a solid effort to make sure that this isn't purely mechanical, though -- I'm making good use of little motifs and phrases that I know/hear.

    Lately I've been finding that I'm falling into some usual habits, making the same moves in similar situations, so I've been working on mixing those up a bit when I see them coming. I must say, though, "playing the same old thing" is a much better situation to be in than not making the changes at all! The next thing I'd like to do is to start messing around with ideas from David's Fishman etude thread (e.g., anticipating the next change with a short pick up), but I haven't quite got there yet.


    Also, gents, I'll mention that this will be my last week before a 3 week hiatus as I will be away travelling without a guitar. I will have a ukulele, but I think my wife will kill me if I spend an hour every evening playing steady triplets on a ukulele in our hotel room!

  24. #173

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu
    Like gasser, I've basically been targeting thirds as well. .. While I'm doing this I'm trying to carve out an interesting contour using arpeggios and passing scale tones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu

    Lately I've been finding that I'm falling into some usual habits, making the same moves in similar situations, so I've been working on mixing those up a bit when I see them coming.

    Also, gents, I'll mention that this will be my last week before a 3 week hiatus as I will be away travelling without a guitar.


    First of all, have a great holiday! Always a good thing to get such a beautiful perspective in such a beautiful country; ' i had a friend in Taupo. In a strange way, I get a whole lot of musical growing done when I'm without my guitar, thinking about new ideas without the distraction of hand dominance as I think of it. Most importantly, have fun.

    That's so exciting to see this step in making purposeful phrases and target notes. It's really great for the ear too, to isolate the pitches and really get to know them in that way.
    Blues for Alice is also a tune that has a number of phrases that also converge on the 3rd. Cool.

    Hope this is a good week for everyone. I like these changes.

    David

  25. #174

    User Info Menu

    To give you some idea of how triplets can be used as short phrases by themselves, connected to each other to make a longer line, offset to give a rhythmic accent and some contour ideas. From last week's project changes:

    Howard Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-screen-shot-2017-06-19-9-58-43-am-pngHoward Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-screen-shot-2017-06-19-9-59-22-am-pngHoward Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-screen-shot-2017-06-19-9-59-45-am-pngHoward Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-screen-shot-2017-06-19-10-00-21-am-png

  26. #175

    User Info Menu

    What a great song. I spent some time earlier today working through the head. Got the first 8 bars down. Gonna be a challenge navigating through the chromatic ii-Vs. The chart is deceptively simple. For the first time in the entire course I was able to comp through without the book, no problem. Soloing not quite there yet.