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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot
    By the way, could someone please point out where 48bpm is mentioned, please?
    On page 19, point G he says: "The week end tempo objectives shown at the top of each project lesson are scheduled to increase by two netronome points daily." Since the week end tempo objective is 60 for lesson 1-A, you might start with 6 x 2 beats per minute less = 48 bpm. Then 50 bpm for day 2, 52 bpm for day 3 and so on...

    Robert

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot
    By the way, could someone please point out where 48bpm is mentioned, please?

    Thanks in advance.
    The log sheet for week 1 says that 60 bpm is the target tempo for the END of week one. Elsewhere, HR recommends increasing tempo by 2 bpm per day. So 60 - (2 bpm x 6 days) = 48 bpm on day 1.

    But these are just recommendations and not written in stone. HR wants you to find the tempo *each day* at which you can play without making mistakes, which is why he has you play 2 minutes of the progression at the beginning of each session to find your tempo for the day. Maybe you're able to play mistake free at 54 today, but tomorrow you're feeling sluggish and can only do 48. That's fine.

    Mistake free is tough for me. Listen to 30 seconds of my recording from above. It takes about 20 seconds before I fall off the rails. But in general I spend so much time stopping when I mess up that I end up only playing the first 4 bars of a tune. I'm committed to ending this practice by pounding through these 10 minute intervals come hell or high water.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    The log sheet for week 1 says that 60 bpm is the target tempo for the END of week one. Elsewhere, HR recommends increasing tempo by 2 bpm per day. So 60 - (2 bpm x 6 days) = 48 bpm on day 1.

    But these are just recommendations and not written in stone. HR wants you to find the tempo *each day* at which you can play without making mistakes, which is why he has you play 2 minutes of the progression at the beginning of each session to find your tempo for the day. Maybe you're able to play mistake free at 54 today, but tomorrow you're feeling sluggish and can only do 48. That's fine.

    Mistake free is tough for me. Listen to 30 seconds of my recording from above. It takes about 20 seconds before I fall off the rails. But in general I spend so much time stopping when I mess up that I end up only playing the first 4 bars of a tune. I'm committed to ending this practice by pounding through these 10 minute intervals come hell or high water.
    Ah - thank you!

    Back to de-cluttering - determined to get it done today so I can focus.

  5. #54

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    I had a teacher that said, "think simple, play fancy". If you look at the A section of the chord progression and simplify it:

    ||: Bb / / / | / / / / | Bb7 / / / | / / / / |

    | Eb / / / | / / / / | Ebm / / / | / / / /|

    | Bb / / / | / / / / | C7 / / / | / / / / |

    | G7 / / / | / / / / | F7 / / / | / / / / :||

    I like thinking like that much more than looking for key centers.

  6. #55

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    Think simple play fancy - I like it.

    Or think fancy play simple? :-)

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Think simple play fancy - I like it.

    Or think fancy play simple? :-)
    That seems to describe the head of this tune. I can't believe how basic the melody is considering all the chords flying by.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    That seems to describe the head of this tune. I can't believe how basic the melody is considering all the chords flying by.
    Really? Cherokee is really really simple.

    These are the changes, as pointed out above:

    Bb | % | Bb7 | % |
    Eb | % | Ab7 | % |
    Bb | % | G7 | % |
    C7 | % | F7 | % |

    I mean it's hardly flippin' Giant Steps. It's quite a lot easier than a Rhythm tune say. Actually the challenge at 60 bpm is the LACK of chord changes.

    The A harmony is based on this chromatic line:

    Bb | % | Ab | % |
    G | % | Gb | % |
    F | % | % | % |
    E | % | Eb | % |

    Everything else is diatonic except for the F7+ in the last two. But you can ignore that Db if you want.

    B harmony is just II-V-I's in steps till you hit the F and then go back to Bb.

    In terms of blowing harmony Cherokee is only hard if you are a horn player who doesn't know their keys.

    Now the speed people play it at - that's a rhythmic/articulation problem, not harmonic!

  9. #58

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    That's sorta what I was saying. At fast tempos it's a lot easier to hear the melody and how it sits within the changes . My technical skill is at the point where I am barely making most changes at 35 bpm! That's a long time to noodle 8th notes over Bb major of measure 1 when in the actual song the melody is simply a whole note that passes by in a half-second! 35 bpm turns a catchy, happy-go-lucky tune into a dirge.

    I'll give the simplified key center approach a try tomorrow night.

  10. #59

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    Slow down to speed up.

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    Just my personal opinion of course, but I feel that using a backing track instead of playing the chords for a solid 10 minutes (see step 5) might detract from my ability to get the changes off the paper and into my head (step 6). If you skip this step, you're missing 60 minutes of chordal work.
    I completely agree with that - and playing the chords for a solid 10 minutes is what Howard Roberts prescribed.

    I'm inclined to add to what's prescribed when it comes to repertoire, keeping any additional tunes secondary - but turbocharging progress by following the same steps.
    Last edited by destinytot; 04-19-2017 at 01:29 AM.

  12. #61

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    Well into the first week, I'm having a ball. I'm keeping a notebook of ideas and things to work on. I'd started the week, actually a week ago, without any list at all; just trying to focus on finding the zone within the form every day. I've found that once that plateau is reached at this speed, I'm noticing more places where I can make connections. Practice awareness extends well beyond the time with the instrument in my hands and I'm eager to incorporate things.
    Today's areas of exploration: Playing with motifs and working above the 12th fret.

    Fun. I'm having fun.
    David

  13. #62

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    I'm also playing the chords for 10 min. It helps me to remember the chord progression. As for speed I'm down to 40 bpm, which I can almost do without mistakes. I quess many of you are doing this with original tunes (Cherokee - week 1), are you going to stick with the program and just switch key in week 2? I was thinking of taking a new song for a week 2, when it comes.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jhui
    I'm also playing the chords for 10 min. It helps me to remember the chord progression. As for speed I'm down to 40 bpm, which I can almost do without mistakes. I quess many of you are doing this with original tunes (Cherokee - week 1), are you going to stick with the program and just switch key in week 2? I was thinking of taking a new song for a week 2, when it comes.
    A new tune a week. Yeah it's great when you can be motivated to find a tune you really want to know, and then commit an entire week to exploring it at different tempos. In another thread, I told a story of a guy who picked a new tune a week, and each week started at ultra slow ballad or below, and progressively through the week explored that tune at different tempi until it was at his fast limit by the end of the week. He did this for three years and learned more than he might've had he been unfocused or encumbered by a generic curriculum in school.
    So what tune were you going to do?
    I do like these tunes Howard Roberts had chosen. They seem thoughtfully offered to introduce significant concepts each time (turnarounds, key centres, later on Major and minor duality, changing keys, etc) each time giving you ideas that will serve you well in many other pieces.
    Of course there are lots of pieces that can also be used at any of the stages.
    The nice thing about working with "the program" is we can share our development and discoveries and there's some kind of progression in compositional structure. For 20 weeks, we have a similar template for our questions and struggles. We avoid the first week frustration of "I really don't GET what's happening in Stella. I'll come back when I can hear it."

    There's always more to do, and working with your own piece is a great idea. I'll still focus on new tunes-always. But this 50 minutes is, for me, a non negotiable discipline. Already it's cleaning up a bad habit of wandering into other things during that 50 minutes.
    Everyone is different. I'd love to know what tune you'd be doing alternatively.

    David

  15. #64

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    I moved the tempo up to 36 bpm last night. First time through I tried playing the key centers in a very vanilla way. Major or minor scale (for the minor II-V-I) for each key center up to the 7 and back down to the root.

    A couple of things I noticed: I rush. Sometimes quite badly. If I subdivide in my head in 16ths I am more accurate rhythmically, but more prone to mistakes on the fretboard.

    Also, playing the scale of the key center over some of the substitutions sounds fine, like over the VI or III, but over the altered dominant and that C+11 just...no.

    Something that was quite rewarding: I played one of my takes at double speed and a lot of the devices I am practicing (enclosures) sound rather nice at faster tempos. Really looking forward to climbing out of the tempo hole. 36 bpm is just painful.
    Last edited by wzpgsr; 04-20-2017 at 09:03 AM.

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    A new tune a week. Yeah it's great when you can be motivated to find a tune you really want to know, and then commit an entire week to exploring it at different tempos. In another thread, I told a story of a guy who picked a new tune a week, and each week started at ultra slow ballad or below, and progressively through the week explored that tune at different tempi until it was at his fast limit by the end of the week. He did this for three years and learned more than he might've had he been unfocused or encumbered by a generic curriculum in school.
    So what tune were you going to do?
    I do like these tunes Howard Roberts had chosen. They seem thoughtfully offered to introduce significant concepts each time (turnarounds, key centres, later on Major and minor duality, changing keys, etc) each time giving you ideas that will serve you well in many other pieces.
    Of course there are lots of pieces that can also be used at any of the stages.
    The nice thing about working with "the program" is we can share our development and discoveries and there's some kind of progression in compositional structure. For 20 weeks, we have a similar template for our questions and struggles. We avoid the first week frustration of "I really don't GET what's happening in Stella. I'll come back when I can hear it."

    There's always more to do, and working with your own piece is a great idea. I'll still focus on new tunes-always. But this 50 minutes is, for me, a non negotiable discipline. Already it's cleaning up a bad habit of wandering into other things during that 50 minutes.
    Everyone is different. I'd love to know what tune you'd be doing alternatively.

    David
    Well for the first week i have Lullaby of Birdland and for the week 2, I think I'll do Night and day. These are songs which I'm working atm anyways and I like that they both have half dim and dim chords. I also believe that Howard Roberts has chosen those tunes (and the order) for a reason, but I see no big harm done when working this method with almost any tune. You are basically hammering those changes and notes into your head and fingers. At least that's how I see it.

  17. #66
    No book in front of me. Top of my head, I think he does Cherokee again for week 2, but in a different key? I'll have to look at it. I'm just doing the Roberts thing for now.

  18. #67

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    Would anyone mind recording one of their 10 minute sessions and sharing? I'm curious to hear what others are doing.

  19. #68

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    This is probably obvious, but I've found it can be helpful to have an "agenda" for each 10 minute session. Today, I did 10 minutes of playing whatever comes up, and then 2 10 minute sessions of trying to play bebop scales and other chromatic ideas--I tend to play more arpeggios, so this was good practice and broke me out of my usual.

    I've also found it useful to make myself move more around the fretboard, and not be so position-bound. The slow tempo helps with that.

  20. #69

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    Today I worked on limehouse blues, which has a funky m3 thing with dominant chords in the beginning. I was doing some single line stuff, chords and chord solos..... I play this with a big band here and there and never worked it out... working it out rreeaaaaalllllyyyy slow like this has helped me with some of them connections. I started practicing like this when I heard of a story of how Sonny Stitt would practice chord tones slowly over a progression, still, after years of acknowledgement of mastery. And... also been transcribing some of HR solos. One record he did, which is out of print, called "Sounds" , is a gold mine for great solos played in under 2 min... HR could really crank out some beautiful lines in a small amount of time.. and it won't take you to long to learn 'em


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu
    For the sake of conversation, here's how I plan on using the course. It gives me a way of practicing what I'm already working on in a structured and graduated format:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu

    10 mins comping:
    I have no interest in learning those HR voicings, so I'm going to spend 10 minutes practicing comping through the progression using improvised small voicings based on guide tones + extensions. This is challenging enough for now, but if I get frisky I can practice leading with dominants/ii-Vs, tritone subs, etc.

    3 x 10 mins of steady 8th notes:
    I'm working my way through Garrison Fewell's book at the moment, so I'm going to use that approach. So working through the progression using triads and melodic extensions, and targeting guide tones in various ways.

    Not a bad way to spend 50 minutes!



    After 5 of the 6 days, I can already see what a challenging and rewarding endeavour this will be. I'm currently working at around 50 bpm, and keeping things focused at that tempo ain't easy. There is the balance of trying to hear the melody at that slow pace, keeping track of what arpeggio or chord tone I'm targeting, staying conscious of where I am in the progression (HARD at 50 bpm), and actually trying to make it sound like music.

    The quickest advances I've seen so far have been in the 10 minutes of comping (using the above approach). I feel like I'm realising my inner Bickert.

    I'm heartened by remembering a podcast by Bruce Foreman, where he highlighted the importance of being able to play steady 8th's through any progression. And we all know the particular brand of badass that old Brucie is.


  22. #71

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    In celebration of completing Day 5, here is what my final 10 minute session from tonight sounds like sped up to something like Cherokee at performance tempo. Just kind of fun to hear at something closer to actual song tempo with a guitar that sounds like a weird synth violin.


  23. #72

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    Ha - I like it!

    It kind of sounds like Kurt Rosenwinkel's current tone to me haha.

  24. #73

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    I saw a picture of the June Guitar Player magazine cover. Looks like there's an article on HR SuperChops, in case anyone is interested.

  25. #74

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    I've de-cluttered and organised what is now my practice room (a Big Deal), and I've now started the programme in earnest.

    So I'd just like to say thanks very much indeed for starting this thread; it's a lifeline, and it truly supports a vision.

    Best wishes to all.

  26. #75

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    The key of Db. The song form should be familiar. I love looking at a piece in a new key, it separates how well my ears know a tune from how well my fingers know it. We move our root up a fourth and take the target speed up a little. If it's unfamiliar, it'll come pretty quickly this first day. Remember, we're still building on all we have built on during the first week.
    David

    Howard Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-fullsizerender-9-jpgHoward Roberts Super Chops: study group for a tune based practice routine-fullsizerender-10-jpg