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JBN What tune is next weeks project based on? I don't recognize it...
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01-02-2021 10:41 PM
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Are we all supposed to be starting on Week Five coming up? I want to make sure I'm on the same page as everybody else. I've actually only been doing this for two weeks now - but I'm jumping ahead to keep up with everyone.
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Day 6 of BBB at 90 bpm. There were moments where I went astray, but for the most part I felt like I was making some nice music. Must confess that I'm looking forward to moving on to the next tune. Whatever that tune is.
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Pretty sure this is Angel Eyes.
Originally Posted by guido5
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Happy New Year and welcome to our fresh start week!
Big change this week. Project 3-A focuses on a minor tonality, for the A section it stays very much within D minor. There are measures of supporting changes that we'll use to create a sense of cadence or breath, contrast and shading, but it pretty much keeps you in D minor.
The B section steps us into a different and brighter key, a nice contrast in feel and sound: Bb in Major. Then another shift into the key of A before the return to D minor. The form is A A B A.
This project is based on the large tonal areas we see in Angel Eyes, but it's different too. It's full of twists designed to sharpen your skills on some useful techniques. I'll talk about these details once we've begun to explore this project. I've included a lead sheet for Angel Eyes if you want to see and play with the original as further exploration.
There's a lot to dig into and a lot to get out of this week. I think it'll be a lot of fun.
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Is there anything wrong with seeing the first 10 bars as originating out of an F major tonality? Obviously I'll aim for the relevant chord tones and extensions for whichever chord I'm playing over, but I've always just sort of translated songs in minor keys to their relative majors for soloing. For instance, when improvising over the changes to Blue Bossa, I'm thinking primarily out of an Eb tonality for the first eight bars - though I throw the odd Gb in now and then for a nice 'blue' note.
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I guess that the results justify the means. For me, the minor tonality has a very strong association with fingerboard positioning and the notes that work to bring out that quality. I'll find my minor "Do" under an index or ring finger of my left hand, and the lines that come out of that, the triads that work for me and the colour notes that inform my ideas are all while I'm seeing or hearing minor. Originally Posted by Socraticaster
It comes down to how you work with the imaginary bass player and what you create in that capacity. Technically they can share the same fingerings in some instances, but how they arpeggiate, how they accentuate, and how they complete ideas of resolution, they always feel quite different and distinctly minor to me.
Work with it both ways. If you find something that works, it's the quality that is most sought after: a style and approach that's all your own.
Here's one version of the vibe and the minor qualities as they emerge
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Hey, guido5. I know you use iReal Pro as I do. I'm having difficulty inputting the DmMaj7 chords. Everything I try iReal Pro says it can't read. Just wondering if you've had better luck than me? Thanks!
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I use the -^7 (minor major 7 chord quality) from the menu of chord qualities when in the editor... On the emulated android version it is about 4 rows down on the second from the last column...
Hope this is clear...
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Thanks. That worked! I appreciate the help! Originally Posted by guido5
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I spent a little time examining the next lesson. Interesting that the A section is written the way it is. Pretty static. I'm surprised some of those Em7 chords into A7b9 aren't written as Em7b5. Also, I don't usually dwell on the noted key centers, but I find it interesting that G13-G7#5 is in Bb. I'm typically trying to hone my awareness of the chord tones so I'm not as focused on key centers off the bat.
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Same thoughts here. Love this tune. Originally Posted by D'Aquisto Fan
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Excellent! Originally Posted by D'Aquisto Fan
While we are on the topic of ireal pro, did you create a new song from scratch for this? I have never created a song from scratch with the editor that wasn't a straight 32 bars using one of the default formats. How did you create the 16 bar sections?
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Exactly. You're going to find that the more you come across charts, especially different people's charts on the bandstand, and ESPECIALLY chords and harmony by the original composers, that there is something in the way each arranger's ear heard things. That's not going to be the way you're necessarily going to play them. For instance, when the minor goes to mMaj7, the note that changes is the note you need to also make the A7 chord if you hear the bass note as an A. Those are the shadings I referred to. Originally Posted by D'Aquisto Fan
Good for you for not seeing the changes as notes to be merely filled in with scales. The music emerges. The next three weeks are going to be a lot of fun!
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Yes. This is the first time I created a new song in iReal Pro. I ended up inputting all the bars, so no first repeat, second repeat, etc. I couldn't figure out how to do that. I was able to copy and paste some of the A section the second time around to avoid too much typing. The lazy part of me wishes Howard's charts were a bit more in line with the typical Real Book changes. It would make this a lot easier. Of course, using iReal Pro is a lot easier than comping the changes every day to a different tempo! If you want I can send you my iReal Pro version via email. Originally Posted by guido5
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I've been using the Howard Roberts SuperChops files for iRealPro that are already pre-made and available on the iRealPro forum. Is there some reason I should be avoiding those and making my own, as some people seem to be doing?
Superchops For Guitar - Howard Roberts
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Just an aside - From Wikipedia : Angel Eyes was introduced in the 1953 film Jennifer.
This movie is available on Amazon Prime video, I put it in my watch list.
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Thank you for this! Originally Posted by Socraticaster
I'm struggling through doing my own because I'm not bright enough to go looking for those on the forum... Doh...
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Wow!! Thank you so much for that link! That's a huge help! Originally Posted by Socraticaster
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Brilliant! That just saved me a tone of time! Originally Posted by Socraticaster
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Just speaking personally, I find there’s tremendous benefit in laying down the chords manually. First, it helps internalize the sound of the changes. Second, it helps me orient myself on the fretboard and give me a framework for how I will move from key center to key center. Originally Posted by Socraticaster
I was using shell voicings for the first week. Then I started sprinkling in some of HR’s voices. This week I plan to use his exact voicings, in part to help me focus on specific sounds over specific harmonies. For example, I might be tempted to just play half-diminished over the minor ii-Vs, but since HR specifically uses vanilla m7 chords in a few places, I am going see what surprises I can find in there.
That said, I do cheat a bit. I will typically record one chorus of chords in Logic, punch-in any errors, and even quantize the chords so they are perfectly aligned to the beat. Then loop it all for as many times as it takes to get me to 10 minutes. It shaves a lot of time off the total routine.
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Week 5 Day 1. 70BPM. Using the newly acquired "official" ireal pro backing (thanks again!). After a bit of orientation, I dove in and swam at 70bpm and was pretty happy with the results for a first day. The HR patented chromatic adventures in the bridge are not quite yet fitting in with their neighbors, but it is a nice form to approach lyrically and a lot of fun. Listening to the Desmond version a couple of times was a good way to prepare. I like that he plays it more up tempo than many other recordings.
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Man, those long stretches of static Dm are bears! Lots of bluesy repetition being played by yours truly. Started out at the week at 66 bpm. Had to sneak a peak at the chart now again. Not a terrible first day, though.
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I just finished week 5, day 1 85 bpm of Howard's Angel Eyes changes with the iReal Pro backing track. FYI, I've been targeting my bmp so every day if I bump it up 5 bpm I get to Howard's target by the end of the week. Anyway, I was getting a bit lost in the form. That last A, then back to the top was confusing me for some bizarre reason. Not sure why? My head space is a bit off this evening. And I agree that the static nature of the A section is oddly challenging. The third time through I started making better music. The end of the B section will require more study to say something musical that follows a melodic line.
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I agree. Using a pre-made track has the advantage of convenience but it is definitely a more immersive, and ultimately better ear experience laying down your own tracks. I'd recommend it as a goal when you feel it's within your abilities; it can really take you to a new place, as playing with another person will make you a better all around soloist by comping. Originally Posted by wzpgsr
One thing I used to do when I would play with another guitarist as a duo was to break down the soloing and comping into sections of the A A B A form, each time switching between comping and soloing.
Then switching every 4 bars, then every 2. It really keeps you on your toes, makes you listen, makes it easier to put chords into a solo and lines into the comping.
Another thing you can do: If you're working from a programmed backing track, make sure you're OFF BOOK and take an extra 10 minute segment and just play Bass lines with walking quarter notes. You can use eighth notes for chromatic approach or pickups, but keep it steady in the beat with the bass line. It's kind of somewhere between chords and solo lines and I find it clears the mind and opens the ear really nicely.
The HR version is full of "extra challenges" you won't get from Angel Eyes, the tune. Project 3-A has similarities to Angel Eyes but it is NOT the tune, it's an exercise to develop soloing skills. Negotiation of unusual passages and harmonic areas is an essential skill. You may not see or hear it now, but it's kind of a "Wax on-Wax off" exercise.
Either way, do what you need to be comfortable, and do what you can to push yourself beyond your comfort zone. Keep moving and celebrate your progress.
One time I asked sax player Jerry Bergonzi what he felt the most important thing was in becoming a good jazz musician was. I half expected him to tell me about an approach to improvising, or a revelation about time. He said "You gotta love it. You gotta do it because you love it."
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Week 5 Day 2. 70BPM. Using "official" ireal pro backing. Another foggy brained mid week offering. Started with a couple of decent choruses but it rapidly descended into the wrong sort of repetition as the fingers decided they were not going to follow the brain's direction. The HR chromatic movement is still giving me fits. Oh well...
I think I'm going to try to carve out enough time tomorrow to focus on the troublesome sections and see if I can get them to behave.
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Week 5. Day 2 of "Angel Eyes" at 90 bpm. Things were flowing better this evening. Using more upper extensions to find different flavors for the
onslaught of D minor chords, etc. Like guido5, I need to spend more time with the end of the B section. I'm making the changes, but I'm not making music. Nothing too melodic. It's a shame that section comes by so infrequently. If we were forced to deal with it more often we'd have more opportunities to tackle it. Might loop that sequence if I can find some free time and woodshed it a bit.
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Tried to approach the static Dm sections by repeating and slightly altering a phrase from chord to chord. I could hang for about three bars each time I tried this then would lose focus and end up noodling again. Not quite nailing the B section yet. Surprisingly, it’s that measure of Fm7 Bb9 that I keep glossing over. I’ll get it. Need to spend sone time with the looper. I’m starting to feel a little overwhelmed by the time commitment—not doing a good job at balancing Superchops with the work I need to do for my lessons.
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What are you working on for your lessons? Can you bring the material you're working on there into the piece you're working on here? Originally Posted by wzpgsr
Do you have a notebook of ideas you're using with our 20 weeks here? If so, sometimes I find it refreshing to keep an "ideas and concepts" section handy.
These can be personal revelations, musical phrases or even a two note combination/interval you find an affinity for. Ex: Day 24. Major 7th interval...I found that in each chord there are Major 7th intervals that can be the basis for a sound, and even though they might not even be chord tones, when I work them into a line, it gives a life to the sound. Must develop this".
When you're getting to a place when you're not feeling "in gear", it's often because the question "What am I going after on this line/phrase/section/chorus/solo..." has slipped from your focus. If you don't have that, of course it's going to slip into noodling. Having a ready steady supply of framework ideas handily available might help you.
Did you ever find yourself in a situation where you had a nice guitar in your hands, maybe a way out of possibility beauty at a guitar store, and you hold it and then think "I should have a real show stopper etude or something that I can get the most out of myself and this guitar"? (Translate: Let me do something amazing right now)
Getting frustrated with moving slowly, with not feeling the rush of progress, that's all a part of acquiring the craft. Boredom and frustration are your best allies; they keep you moving and searching. Do them justice by practicing purpose. Then comes the art.
Ideas don't come out of nowhere. If you remember where they're kept, you can translate them into music. It may very well change your idea of what and why you play.
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You might explore the idea of density. Contrast dense close intervals, maybe even a short run of chromatic lines, with maybe an octaves passage. Create contrasts within that D min section. That's what it's there for, to allow you the chance for YOU to find contours, and not rely on the twists of changes to make sense of it. Originally Posted by D'Aquisto Fan
And you might think about the idea that sometimes a good passage doesn't even take shape until 3 bars in. Listen to the Jim Hall example. He makes that minor third interval and builds a whole solo out of it. But he didn't dismiss the potential of those two notes, he looked for things that could carry them through many iterations and permutations.
So when you play a couple of notes, they can be the basis for developing an idea. Don't look at them as a desert of D minor, but as really prime real estate that nobody's built on yet. Take two or three notes and explore. Don't judge anything until you're at least half way through the section and can see from a perspective that you can put on your map.
If I might dare, don't let the idea of "I've got to play something profoundly melodic" get in the way of creating something of substance. In other words, don't put so much focus on one character, his makeup and screen presence, that it gets in the way of that character creating a story.
Hey try this: Take an idea you intentionally think of as disposable. Repeat it. Yeah, don't leave it behind, hold it and look at what you can to to create a story. Move it up a third. Repeat one note in there so it displaces the time feel. Then scramble the notes in some way...and return to your original idea maybe 4 bars later however you can fit it in. There's a story made from garbage that is worth telling.
If you use the D min section this way, (think of it as a vamp section) then you might even try being more sparing during the "changes" section in major. Let the changes speak for themselves.
Something to think about anyway.
Have fun!
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Good thoughts
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Week 5. Day 3 of "Angel Eyes" at 95 bpm. Things went decidedly better this evening. I'd been feeling a little out of it the last couple days. My head space was better this evening. Thank you, JBN for your always insightful posts providing some great suggestions on how to approach these lessons. I listened again to the Jim Hall version of Angel Eyes, specifically the minor third interval JBN pointed out and I did my own version of that one of the times through the whole ten minutes. It was cool to develop a hook and weave it throughout the entire tune. I also really focused on building drama with the end of the B section. Basically approaching each of the last 8 bars in such a way that I would work my way up the neck heightening the tension for the inevitable and much needed release. One thing I keep confronting. Not sure if anyone else has this problem, but I slip out of doing steady 8ths in pursuit of an idea or a syncopated motif. I need to remind myself to get back to playing straight 8ths as that appears to be the cornerstone of these lessons. Anyway, it was a good night despite all the craziness in our country today. Hope everyone is well.
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Week 5 day 3. 80 BPM. Using "official" ireal pro backing track. The turbulence of the day didn't make for a particularly productive mental state, but I did the best I could and pushed through. The static nature of the D-7 zone really taking it's toll. Not the freshest lines I have ever played. I also didn't get a chance to work specifically on the chromatic movement in the B section, so I'm still bugged by it.
Last edited by guido5; 01-06-2021 at 10:46 PM.
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I feel ya. Didn’t touch a guitar today. Early break day for me I guess. Originally Posted by guido5
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Week 5 day 4. 90 BPM. Using "official" ireal pro backing track. Feeling more centered and focused than yesterday. An evening of theme and variations which generally puts me on a better footing than a more continuous non repeating line. It certainly helps tame the ascending changes of the B section to push a motif through that area. Starting to look forward to a new key about a day early. Oh well...
Last edited by guido5; 01-08-2021 at 07:37 AM.
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Day 4. I'm recording solo lines for every other measure, then leaving the odd measures to be soloed on next time around. (chords for 10 minutes, then solo recorded on every other measure, then solo again over the two together.) I'm using the recorded measures as jumping off points. Good training for dialogue playing with another player too.
This keeps me listening really sharply, plus it makes sure my ear is able to knew exactly where the leave off note is so I can continue, or contrast, or even make a variation in the space provided, which is not a lot.
Tomorrow I'll do a two on, two off variation.
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Week 5. Day 4 of "Angel Eyes" at 100 bpm. This evening felt a bit laborious. There were some nice moments, but I also was kind of looking forward to getting through the third time around. It's challenging to come up with new, fresh material. The end of that B section still throws me. Yes, I can make the changes, but it's hard for me to play something I like. I find that last night's discovery of moving each bar up the fretboard to create some drama and tension and ultimately release is the device I find most satisfying on that pesky end of the B section.
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Sounds like you guys are making progress, and finding good snags to work your way out of. Shaking yourself out of the lethargy of autopilot is a powerful skill.
A possibly helpful hint:
Find the things that take you out of the notes. Each phrase is, of course, made up of notes, but if all you think of are "what notes do I use" or just leave it to your hands to get you through, you're going to get "handed" back to the same old traps. Your hands are your best friends in proficiency and your worst enemies creatively. Use them and train them but don't let them tell you where to go.
Each phrase can have a shape and purpose before you even sound a note. Use your project time to practice this. Look at the road ahead, don't get obsessed with the pavement in front of you, or the steering wheel.
Here are some elements of music that you can add to your awareness. They will shape what you play and add form to the notes if you learn to use them:
Timbre
Rhythm
Melody
Harmony
Continuity
Dynamics
Pitch.
Space
And I know we are severely restricted in our rhythms, but note groupings make their own rhythms (like you can play ideas in groups of three; they'll cross the bar lines. Instant divergence from the ho-hum and it makes you sit up and notice. Things like that.
See if this helps.
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Week 5 day 5. 100 BPM. Using "official" ireal pro backing track. Did a few turns around at 90 then decided to push it up to 100. Spent the rest of the session chasing after the tempo but for me an evening of feeling out of control is a prelude to being able to nail it the next time out. That's the plan anyway...
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Back in the saddle tonight after a couple of days off to process the events of the week. I'll say this: missing just two days has had a noticeable negative impact on my ability to get inside the tune, but also on my general facility with instrument. My hands feel clumsy, inept. By the end tonight I was cooking with gas though—I experimented with a new played in some relatively unfamiliar positions tonight, which forced me to use me ear a lot more—end result: things felt a little fresher, if a bit sloppy. Onward.
Last edited by wzpgsr; 01-09-2021 at 04:15 AM.
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If I don't practice one day, I can tell . . .
If I don't practice two days, my guitar can tell . . .
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Three days. They can tell. Originally Posted by guido5
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Finished Day 6 of Exercise 3A at 80 bpm. Technique seems fine - few flams or missed notes (some, but not many). I found it hard to negotiate the B section in any sort of melodic way; I was mostly "chasing the changes," but every now and then something would click. I'm going to spend tomorrow working on just the B section to internalize the key changes more so I can focus on melody and motifs. I like how this programme really makes one confront deficiencies and deficits while simultaneously providing a mechanism for working through them.
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Week 5 day 6. 100 BPM. Using "official" ireal pro backing track. Well I almost caught 100bpm. It is still just a bit beyond what I'm comfortably able to play on the B section.
All in all an interesting week. Jam packed with highs and lows and that is just in the practice room. While the tempo push is certainly an interesting exercise, I think I'll be more patient next week and focus more on quality over velocity.
A day away from this material sounds really nice right now...
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Dang! You guys are quick-fingered!
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Oh heck no... Just playing really boring lines faster... But it does help teach me to think ahead more effectively. Sort of... Originally Posted by wzpgsr
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Tomorrow's the day of rest. Use it and have fun whatever you do.
The new version in Project 3-B is similar to this week's but in the key of A minor.
Post any questions or issues you seem to have had with this week's project.
When I give the worksheet and changes for 3-B, I'll try to put together a simplified version of these changes, and maybe have them in roman numeral notation so you can simplify the thought process.
I don't know if it makes any sense, but I find these original HR charts to be distractingly cluttered to the eye.
I take the time out with music paper and make a lead sheet with only the changes. Then I'll add notes in coloured sharpies as far as tonal areas and roman numeral notation. It helps me see larger areas better, and not to see each measure as separate thoughts.
It's a little closer to the way I see and hear it off book.
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Seeing your road map for the tune (and simplifications) would be very helpful! Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
Thanks!
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Week 5. Day 5 and 6 of "Angel Eyes" at 105 and 110 bpm. An old friend was in town yesterday. We socially distanced and played music for a few hours which prevented me from doing the Super Chops course last night. So... I did double duty this evening. 3 sets at 105 bmp, a break, then 3 sets at 110 bpm. Interestingly enough, I thought I'd be drained and uninspired on the last time through, but I actually found some interesting ideas I hadn't discovered before. Anyway, I agree with guido5. A day off from "Angel Eyes" tomorrow will hopefully help clear the mind.
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