Altered Doms Thread

**gravitas** · 08-19-2009, 03:56 PM

I got this idea for a thread from another forum, but I think it's pretty neat. Here we can trade ideas to apply over altered dominant chords. Not just substitutions, but specific phrases and the like. I'll post every once in a while, so long as you guys share too.

Here's a triadic idea over G7:

All triplets:
------------3-6-7-------------------------------
---------3-4-----------------------------------
--------4-------------------------------------
--3-6-5-----------------------------------------
-4--------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------

It's got a nice rolling type of feeling, and gets some out of the box sounds using the C# Major, GMajor, and EbMajor triads respectively.

**JohnW400** · 08-19-2009, 04:38 PM

G7 alt

--6-----4-3--------------------------------------
-----------------6-4---------------------------
----4-3----------------------4-3-----------------
-------------6-5-------5-3--------3----------------
------------------------------------6----------
---------------------------------------6-(7) ------

---------------------------------------------
--------4-3------------------------------------
------4-----3---4--3-----------------------------
--5-6---------5------3-5--------------------------
--------------------------6-2------------------
------------------------------3---------------

---------------------------------------------
--------------------------8-9-11-----------------
-------------------8-10-------------10-8-----------
---------------8-9----------------9-------8-9------
---------8-10-----------------------------------
---7-11-----------------------------------------

Here's 3. AAJ ? right?

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-19-2009, 05:04 PM

How about something a little more angular than the original example.
[chord]
Galt7 .............Cmin
|---3-------6-4---|-3------...
|-----4-6-------4-|---3-------
|---------4-------|-----------
|-6---------------|-----------
|-----------------|-----------
|-----------------|-----------
[/chord]

**mr. beaumont** · 08-19-2009, 09:50 PM

i like the blues scale up a minor third over an altered dominant...

**John Curran** · 08-20-2009, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by gravitas

Here's a triadic idea over G7:

All triplets:
------------3-6-7-------------------------------
---------3-4-----------------------------------
--------4-------------------------------------
--3-6-5-----------------------------------------
-4--------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------

It's got a nice rolling type of feeling, and gets some out of the box sounds using the C# Major, GMajor, and EbMajor triads respectively.

Interesting, almost within a Db lydian b7 scale (G superlocrian or Ab melodic minor) except for the D natural. Cool!

This is somewhat similar to the triadic improv (and triadic sequences) discussed in Mark Levine's book, which I've been investigating of late.

Keep em coming,

john

P.S. Sometimes it's fun to play straight diatonic G7 against a G7 alt. chord.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-20-2009, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by John Curran

P.S. Sometimes it's fun to play straight diatonic G7 against a G7 alt. chord.

I call that the old "reverse substitution". For example, if the chord sequence is:

A7 D7 G7 C7

You can do tritone subs and improvise over this as:

A7 Ab7 G7 Gb7

(I'll keep the chords simple. Add altered tones and extensions are you like.)

But then if someone is comping that second sequence, you can improvise over the first sequence!

One more comment: one reason the melodic minor/ altered scale sounds cool is that it has two tritones, not just one. So for C melodic minor:

C D Eb F G A B C

You have tritones B-F and Eb-A. Use 'em!

**John Curran** · 08-20-2009, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I call that the old "reverse substitution". For example, if the chord sequence is:

A7 D7 G7 C7

You can do tritone subs and improvise over this as:

A7 Ab7 G7 Gb7

(I'll keep the chords simple. Add altered tones and extensions are you like.)

But then if someone is comping that second sequence, you can improvise over the first sequence!

Exactly, when all else is outside, play inside to sound outside.

john

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-20-2009, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by John Curran

Exactly, when all else is outside, play inside to sound outside.

john

:shakesfist: You new fogey!

**gravitas** · 08-21-2009, 02:14 AM

Cool ideas guys. Thanks John and BigDaddy for your contributions- I like the idea of sharing specific illustrations of theoretical ideas.

Here are a pair of new ones. Some Coltrane inspired pentatonics:

G7
---------------------------------------------10-13---------------
--------------------------6-9-----8-11-8-10-------13-12---10-----
-----------------5--5-7-8----8-10-----------------------12---10--
-----------3-5-7--7----------------------------------------------
-----1-3-5-------------------------------------------------------
-1-4-------------------------------------------------------------
(All sixteenth notes)

Cycles through F, G, A, Bb, C, and D Pentatonic before resolving back on G chord tones.

This one's a wide interval tritone sub idea care of Mr. Kurt Rosenwinkel. It's all eighths, but the first G note is a pickup starting on the 4& of the previous bar.

G7
-------------------
-------------6-4-9-
-----------6-------
-------3-6---------
-------------------
-3-4-7-------------

Originally Posted by JohnW400

Here's 3. AAJ ? right?

Right.

**mr. beaumont** · 08-21-2009, 12:16 PM

i'll keep this thread going, cuz it's a good one...

here's a minor ii V i in C

------------|-----------6--7----------|--------
---------6--|--------4--------8-9-----|-------
------5-----|-----4----------------8--|--7-----
-3-6--------|--5----------------------|--------
------------|--------------------------|-------
------------|--------------------------|------

quarter notes in the first bar, or play eighths and start with a half note rest.

btw, cool examples all so far!

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-24-2009, 12:45 PM

Here's a Dmin7b5 Galt7 Cmin lick based on Honeysuckle Rose. I tried to be careful about the horizontal spacing. There are some sixteenth notes going from measure 1 to 2, and I used "%" for an eighth note rest.

8-6-----4-3-%---|--346-4-----3---|----------------|
------6---------|46--------4---6-|%-6-4-----3-%-%-|
----7---------46|--------4-------|--------3-------|
----------------|----------------|------5---------|
----------------|----------------|----------------|
----------------|----------------|----------------|
1.&.2.&.3.&.4.&.|1.&.2.&.3.&.4.&.|1.&.2.&.3.&.4.&. |

**Mario Abbagliati** · 08-26-2009, 01:10 PM

What about a G7#11 arp (G B C# F)?

**JohnW400** · 08-26-2009, 01:22 PM

Nice.

Is the notation done with Sibelius? If so , What did you save it as in order to post it like this? Thanks

**Mario Abbagliati** · 08-26-2009, 01:41 PM

Db triad + G = G7b9#11

**Mario Abbagliati** · 08-26-2009, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by JohnW400

Nice.

Is the notation done with Sibelius? If so , What did you save it as in order to post it like this? Thanks

Yes, it's Sibelius. I saved it as graphics (windows bitmap) and then I used Google's Picasa to upload the image.

**JohnW400** · 08-26-2009, 02:19 PM

Thanks!

**gravitas** · 08-31-2009, 12:02 PM

Been away at a lake for a bit. Now I'm back.

One thing I started doing while I was away was to incorporate some wide interval constructs I stole from Bach into my single lines. For example,

G7............Cmin
-------------|-7-5-3----------
--------6----|---------4-3----
---4-------7-|-------5-----5--
------6--5---|----------------
--5--4-------|--------------3-
-3-----------|----------------