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  1. #1

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    NOTICE: This thread was begun some time ago and has been merged with the new Study Group working on Mr. Vincent's book.
    Please see post #22 below for a videotaped intro to the study group. (17 April 2017)


    As I'm progressing in my jazz playing, I'm trying to find patterns that can be incorporated into instinct for the language while improvising. Certainly transcribing helps, but it's nice to also find well laid out exercises. Have any of you used the Vincent book? Is the approach one that has payoff -- I.e incorporate dominant cycles that can be transformed into II-V and other progressions? Am curious before I spend a lot of time on it. He doesn't really provide much explanation on why he is presenting things the way he is.
    Last edited by MarkRhodes; 04-17-2017 at 09:30 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by seaguitar View Post
    As I'm progressing in my jazz playing, I'm trying to find patterns that can be incorporated into instinct for the language while improvising. Certainly transcribing helps, but it's nice to also find well laid out exercises. Have any of you used the Vincent book? Is the approach one that has payoff -- I.e incorporate dominant cycles that can be transformed into II-V and other progressions? Am curious before I spend a lot of time on it. He doesn't really provide much explanation on why he is presenting things the way he is.
    This is a great book. I am planning on starting a study group based on this book later this year.


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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A View Post
    This is a great book. I am planning on starting a study group based on this book later this year.


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    Great, Will keep an eye out

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by seaguitar View Post
    As I'm progressing in my jazz playing, I'm trying to find patterns that can be incorporated into instinct for the language while improvising. Certainly transcribing helps, but it's nice to also find well laid out exercises. Have any of you used the Vincent book? Is the approach one that has payoff -- I.e incorporate dominant cycles that can be transformed into II-V and other progressions? Am curious before I spend a lot of time on it. He doesn't really provide much explanation on why he is presenting things the way he is.
    Hey, I'm looking for the same thing these days.

    I have worked through the first 10 or so pages of the Cellular Approach and feel like I'm just not ready for it yet. It's not the missing piece to my jigsaw, I have to look elsewhere first, and come back to it down the line.

    I have Bert Ligons Comprehensive Technique book on order, but I'm pretty sure Building a Jazz Vocabulary (Mike Steinel?) may already contain the answers.




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  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by likeshisjazz134679 View Post
    Hey, I'm looking for the same thing these days.

    I have worked through the first 10 or so pages of the Cellular Approach and feel like I'm just not ready for it yet. It's not the missing piece to my jigsaw, I have to look elsewhere first, and come back to it down the line.

    I have Bert Ligons Comprehensive Technique book on order, but I'm pretty sure Building a Jazz Vocabulary (Mike Steinel?) may already contain the answers.




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    Thanks, I'll try it and see if I get somewhere. I do have some of Ligon's books ( not the technique one but the theory ones ) and the Steinel one. I have to confess I haven't looked at them in a while and so that's a good suggestion for me to dust off some books and try and find the missing piece

  7. #6

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    I think any instructional book put out by Sher is highest quality - Chuck really cares about the music. The Randy Vincent books are all amazing/inspiring but also beyond me in the moment. It doesn't stop me from reading them and getting helful stuff each time. I would be all in on a study group when that is started for any of the Randy Vincent books.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by seaguitar View Post
    Thanks, I'll try it and see if I get somewhere. I do have some of Ligon's books ( not the technique one but the theory ones ) and the Steinel one. I have to confess I haven't looked at them in a while and so that's a good suggestion for me to dust off some books and try and find the missing piece
    The Jody Fisher book is also very good. I just joined a couple of study groups so I don't want to overload myself too much right but around April or May I plan on starting a few groups based on the Cellular approach, one on the Jody Fisher book mastering Jazz guitar method-- improvisation and one on Corey Christiansen's versions of the first 3 Aebersold books.


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  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Fletcher View Post
    I think any instructional book put out by Sher is highest quality - Chuck really cares about the music. The Randy Vincent books are all amazing/inspiring but also beyond me in the moment. It doesn't stop me from reading them and getting helful stuff each time. I would be all in on a study group when that is started for any of the Randy Vincent books.
    Stay posted Rob. I will start one soon


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  10. #9

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    Hello All,


    I am planning on starting up a Study Group in May 2017 based on Randy Vincent’s book “The Cellular Approach”. I figured that we could give everybody a month to check out the book and decide whether or not they would like to commit to the group. The book explores cellular improvisation. A cell is a four note group with at least 3 chord tones. It is meant to lead to building improvisations that are melodic and follow the chord changes logically.


    The Introduction reads: “This book is a collection of things to practice on the guitar that will help to develop the vocabulary of jazz improvisation while simultaneously developing and maintaining single-note technique. . . . the focus will mainly be on “cellular” improvisation, which is using very short melodic cells strung together into longer lines. Once we get to the place where we are using strings of cells for “outside” and “free” playing we will move beyond the cellular concept and into some other approaches. I have included many lines and phrases transcribed from the recordings of several master guitarists to demonstrate the validity of the concepts behind the exercises given.”


    There are 5 chapters in this book: Chapter 1 - Cycles and II-V Sequences (247 examples). Chapter 2 - Turnarounds (163 examples). Chapter 3 - Longer Progressions (192 examples). Chapter 4 Outside and Free Playing (113 examples). Chapter 5 - More Outside Lines - All Purpose Licks including Chromatic Intervals, Serial Tone Rows, and 23rd Chords (99 examples)


    I have had this book on my shelf for the past 2 years but I have only played the first 5 pages. Maybe a group will help motivate me and others to incorporate this concept into my own playing.


    The book does not come with a CD (at least my book didn’t). I use iRealPro for backing tracks.



    1. My plan right now is to learn 10 examples a month. Each example is only 2 to four bars long. I have completed the first 12 with minimal effort. I would estimate that this is a 1 to 2 hour commitment per month. We may want to change this depending on the pace maintained by the group once it gets going, plus at that rate it would take us 6 years and 9 months to complete the book.
    2. Discuss or post your performing of the examples.
    3. Discuss or post where to play the “Cells” on the neck of the guitar. Even though Randy does give some indication where he would like the cells to be played, as we know they are always alternative fingerings.
    4. Discuss or post the application of these “cells” into Jazz Standards. I think that this is the most vital part of the exercise. A concept is only a concept until it is made a reality (I just made that up. It is not a famous quote)
    5. At some point, (maybe at the conclusion) I would combine this with Randy’s other famous book “Line Games” and see how it relates to the playing of great guitarists like Wes Montgomery, Jimmy Raney, Tal Farlow, Pat Martino and Joe Pass



    I will be posting this on several threads so I apologize if you seeing this more than once.


    Let me know what you think.

  11. #10

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    I am in!

    My preference is for the least amount of content so it can go deeper internally and be truly useful.

    I don't care if technically that means it would take 6-9 years. Hopefully we'll all be alive then, enjoying the music.

    I also think that it'd be a fun game to figure out what songs the examples are from - he's mysterious about it - "this is from a Joe Pass solo" - it'd be great to hear it context.

    Thank you for starting the group.

  12. #11
    Count me in also --- thanks for organizing

  13. #12

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    We will let this group gather some steam and then we will start.

    Another member voiced interest in Randy's Book "Drop 2 voicings". I am thinking that perhaps we can combine them. What do you think ?

  14. #13

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    Hello All,


    I am planning on starting up a Study Group in May 2017 based on Randy Vincent’s book “The Cellular Approach”. I figured that we could give everybody a month to check out the book and decide whether or not they would like to commit to the group. The book explores cellular improvisation. A cell is a four note group with at least 3 chord tones. It is meant to lead to building improvisations that are melodic and follow the chord changes logically.


    The Introduction reads: “This book is a collection of things to practice on the guitar that will help to develop the vocabulary of jazz improvisation while simultaneously developing and maintaining single-note technique. . . . the focus will mainly be on “cellular” improvisation, which is using very short melodic cells strung together into longer lines. Once we get to the place where we are using strings of cells for “outside” and “free” playing we will move beyond the cellular concept and into some other approaches. I have included many lines and phrases transcribed from the recordings of several master guitarists to demonstrate the validity of the concepts behind the exercises given.”


    There are 5 chapters in this book: Chapter 1 - Cycles and II-V Sequences (247 examples). Chapter 2 - Turnarounds (163 examples). Chapter 3 - Longer Progressions (192 examples). Chapter 4 Outside and Free Playing (113 examples). Chapter 5 - More Outside Lines - All Purpose Licks including Chromatic Intervals, Serial Tone Rows, and 23rd Chords (99 examples)


    I have had this book on my shelf for the past 2 years but I have only played the first 5 pages. Maybe a group will help motivate me and others to incorporate this concept into my own playing.


    The book does not come with a CD (at least my book didn’t). I use iRealPro for backing tracks.



    1. My plan right now is to learn 10 examples a month. Each example is only 2 to four bars long. I have completed the first 12 with minimal effort. I would estimate that this is a 1 to 2 hour commitment per month. We may want to change this depending on the pace maintained by the group once it gets going, plus at that rate it would take us 6 years and 9 months to complete the book.
    2. Discuss or post your performing of the examples.
    3. Discuss or post where to play the “Cells” on the neck of the guitar. Even though Randy does give some indication where he would like the cells to be played, as we know they are always alternative fingerings.
    4. Discuss or post the application of these “cells” into Jazz Standards. I think that this is the most vital part of the exercise. A concept is only a concept until it is made a reality (I just made that up. It is not a famous quote)
    5. At some point, (maybe at the conclusion) I would combine this with Randy’s other famous book “Line Games” and see how it relates to the playing of great guitarists like Wes Montgomery, Jimmy Raney, Tal Farlow, Pat Martino and Joe Pass



    I will be posting this on several threads so I apologize if you seeing this more than once.


    Let me know what you think.

    So far, 4 people have shown interest. A couple of members want to include some of his other books (The Drop 2 Book and the Three Note Voicings Book)

  15. #14

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    I'm in too.

    Sent from my SM-C7000 using Tapatalk

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A View Post
    We will let this group gather some steam and then we will start.

    Another member voiced interest in Randy's Book "Drop 2 voicings". I am thinking that perhaps we can combine them. What do you think ?
    I've been looking a bit at the first few chapters of the "3 note voicings and beyond" book but have both so I'm open to it. The topics are quite different ( from looking at the TOC ), but developing a chord vocabulary simultaneously isn't a bad idea, as long as we can make progress without steam coming out of our ears.

  17. #16

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    Off to a good start y'all. We will give others a chance to decide and join but in the meantime, I am going to refresh my memory on "Cellular Approach" and look at the other books and come up with of combining the "curriculum" of study for this group.

    I need to put my Music Degree and 22 years of teaching experience to good use. LOL


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  18. #17

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    Hi i would be interested also in this study group. Thx

  19. #18

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    I've got a lot of the theory down from my experiences as an upright player, but I'm keen to employ it on guitar and I'm hoping the Cellular Approach might be what I need so I'll try this study group idea too!

  20. #19

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    This is a cool book. I've been using it this year, and have gotten through about 50 of the exercises. I don't know that any of the lines have shown up in my playing yet, but it is also quite good for fretboard familiarity. By playing the same line in (at least) 2 fingerings and each string set, it really helps you get around!

  21. #20

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    I am starting to plan for this group. I am looking at the first 10 - 12 exercises for May. I am also looking at combining this study with Randy's other books "Jazz Guitar Voicings. Volume 1: The Drop 2 Book." and "Three Note Voicings and beyond". These books are not needed for participation in Study Group but I always feel that I need to round out my melodic knowledge with a harmonic supplement.

    In an earlier post, I mistakenly credited Randy with the authoring of "Jazz Guitar Lines of the Greats (Wes Montgomery, Jimmy Raney, Tal Farlow, Pat Martino, Joe Pass)". This book was actually written by Steve Briody. Once again, this book is not needed for participation in this Study Group but I have found found some very practical licks taken from recordings from the above mentioned artists that seem to nicely compliment Randy's Cellular Approach. They seem to be putting the Cellular Approach into action if you will.

    I also want to infuse some of these exercises into Jazz Standards. That is, after all the ultimate goal of learning these exercises.

    I will be putting together a short video soon to introduce myself and the first month's exercises. I welcome your comments now and throughout the duration of this group.

  22. #21

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    I am starting to plan for this group. I am looking at the first 10 - 12 exercises for May. I am also looking at combining this study with Randy's other books "Jazz Guitar Voicings. Volume 1: The Drop 2 Book." and "Three Note Voicings and beyond". These books are not needed for participation in Study Group but I always feel that I need to round out my melodic knowledge with a harmonic supplement.

    In an earlier post, I mistakenly credited Randy with the authoring of "Jazz Guitar Lines of the Greats (Wes Montgomery, Jimmy Raney, Tal Farlow, Pat Martino, Joe Pass)". This book was actually written by Steve Briody. Once again, this book is not needed for participation in this Study Group but I have found found some very practical licks taken from recordings from the above mentioned artists that seem to nicely compliment Randy's Cellular Approach. They seem to be putting the Cellular Approach into action if you will.

    I also want to infuse some of these exercises into Jazz Standards. That is, after all the ultimate goal of learning these exercises.

    I will be putting together a short video soon to introduce myself and the first month's exercises. I welcome your comments now and throughout the duration of this group.

  23. #22

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    That sounds great. Wish lists - irealpro tracks to use shared, also anyone who feels like recording the exercises we're doing and sharing mp3s. It helps me hear things and also ear train while driving, which I do a lot of.

  24. #23

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    I'm in.

    I own cellular, line games and both chord books.

    Look forward to it.


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    Peter Bernstein Study Group
    (Facebook Study Group)

  25. #24

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    looking forward to participating in this group. thanks

  26. #25

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    Here is the introduction to this study group

    Introduction to Randy Vincent Study Group - Video Dailymotion

  27. #26

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    Here is the introduction to this study group

    Introduction to Randy Vincent Study Group - Video Dailymotion

  28. #27

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    Thanks for taking the time to organize and shoot this vid. Great work


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    Peter Bernstein Study Group
    (Facebook Study Group)

  29. #28

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    Here are exercises 1-1 through 1-5.

    Please post your exercises.

    Please comment.

    Randy Vincent Cellular Approach Study Group Exercises 1-5 - Video Dailymotion

    Exercises 6 through 16 are on their way !!

  30. #29

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    Great job there, Doublea A.
    Thank you for sharing.
    Cheers
    Miguel

  31. #30

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    Hi
    Just did a backing track for page 3 of Cellular Approach, Exercises 1-6 1-7 1-8 (1-8 1-8).

    Each exercise is repeated 3 times.

    1-6. C to C
    1-7. G to G
    1-8. D to D
    1-8. A to A
    1-8. E to E

    To finish on the same note we started, open strings must be used.

    Dropbox - 1 - RANDY VINCENT PAG 3 1-6 1-7 1-8 1-8 1-8.mp3

    Dropbox - 1 - RANDY VINCENT PAG 3 1-6 1-7 1-8 1-8 1-8.pdf

  32. #31

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    Here are exercises 6-11

    Randy Vincent Exercises 6 - 11 - Video Dailymotion

    Enjoy the process
    Last edited by Doublea A; 04-20-2017 at 07:59 AM. Reason: Misspelled words

  33. #32

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  34. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A View Post
    Here are exercises 1-1 through 1-5.

    Please post your exercises.

    Please comment.

    Randy Vincent Cellular Approach Study Group Exercises 1-5 - Video Dailymotion

    Exercises 6 through 16 are on their way !!
    Thanks for organizing getting this off the ground. It's great to hear what some of these sound like finally before diving in! Great job! Is there a reason you decide not to play it as written with the triplets on the 2nd exercise?
    Last edited by seaguitar; 04-20-2017 at 07:58 PM.

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by seaguitar View Post
    Thanks for organizing getting this off the ground. It's great to hear what some of these sound like finally before diving in! Great job! Is there a reason you decide not to play it as written with the triplets on the 2nd exercise?
    The melody line is symmetrical so I preferred to play the Rhythm symmetrically as well.


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  36. #35

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    Anyone wanting my iRealpro playlist for exercises 1 through 16 should message me your email address and I can send it to you. Please note you will to have the iRealpro app on your iPad/iPhone/iPod in order to use it.


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  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A View Post
    Here are exercises 1-1 through 1-5.

    Please post your exercises.

    Please comment.

    Randy Vincent Cellular Approach Study Group Exercises 1-5 - Video Dailymotion

    Exercises 6 through 16 are on their way !!
    Thank you! Just back from camping, now prepping for a Chet Baker songbook gig Sunday, will start on this on Monday, really appreciated.

  38. #37

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    Anyone have any idea what Joe Pass solo the examples are from?

    Or what jazz standard he's referring to later in the chapter where he constructs a solo?

  39. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Fletcher View Post
    Anyone have any idea what Joe Pass solo the examples are from?

    Or what jazz standard he's referring to later in the chapter where he constructs a solo?

    I am not sure which solo he is specifically talking about but I do know that I hear this type of thing in Joe Pass' playing. I am going to take a close look at Joe Pass' Omnibook and try to pull out some examples.

    In the meantime, I am going to reach out to Randy Vincent himself and at the very least make him aware of this this study group. I know that I belong to a Frank Vignola Study group and Frank himself has contributed to the group. I also belong to a Robert Conti Study group and although he has not personally contributed he is aware of the group and apparently checks in on our progress from time to time.

  40. #39

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    Hi all,
    I've been working through this book for a few months now. I'm around page 19, exercise 1-66. In that part of the book, Vincent reviews a lot of the previous material. I started to play around with the different permutations of cells. This probably sounds hyper mathematical and not very useful, but for me it's a way of playing with the material to internalize it.

    Lots of the cells, or pairs of cells, start and end on the 3rd of the chord. (I just realized this leaves out the root-to-root cells. Oh well!) I thought of them in four sets
    A - 3rd to Root & Root to 3rd
    B - 3rd to 5th & 5th to 3rd
    C - 3rd to 3rd, arpeggio
    D - 3rd to 3rd, scale
    Taking each of these in any order without repetition, I believe you'd have 24 permutations. For example, the six permutations starting with A are
    ABCD
    ABDC
    ACBD
    ACDB
    ADBC
    ADCB

    I wrote those out, just to get a feel for it, though I can't read fast enough to really read this at much of a tempo. I'm pretty sure this is the type of thing that is only useful to the person who made it, but anyway, here it is:
    Randy Vincent's Cellular Approach (and other books)-randy_vincent_dominant_cell_permutations-1-jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by dingusmingus; 05-31-2017 at 08:55 PM. Reason: to add pdf

  41. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by dingusmingus View Post
    Hi all,
    I've been working through this book for a few months now. I'm around page 19, exercise 1-66. In that part of the book, Vincent reviews a lot of the previous material. I started to play around with the different permutations of cells. This probably sounds hyper mathematical and not very useful, but for me it's a way of playing with the material to internalize it.

    Lots of the cells, or pairs of cells, start and end on the 3rd of the chord. (I just realized this leaves out the root-to-root cells. Oh well!) I thought of them in four sets
    A - 3rd to Root & Root to 3rd
    B - 3rd to 5th & 5th to 3rd
    C - 3rd to 3rd, arpeggio
    D - 3rd to 3rd, scale
    Taking each of these in any order without repetition, I believe you'd have 24 permutations. For example, the six permutations starting with A are
    ABCD
    ABDC
    ACBD
    ACDB
    ADBC
    ADCB

    I wrote those out, just to get a feel for it, though I can't read fast enough to really read this at much of a tempo. I'm pretty sure this is the type of thing that is only useful to the person who made it, but anyway, here it is:
    Randy Vincent's Cellular Approach (and other books)-randy_vincent_dominant_cell_permutations-1-jpg
    I clicked the "like" button only because there isn't a "LOVE" button.
    I love it !!
    Thanks for the contribution

  42. #41

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    could someone explain to me what the 3 to 3 is.

    I understand the rest of the notations such r to 3, 3 to r etc.

    Granted I don't have any of Randy's material, so if you don't care to explain it I could understand.

    Thanks
    "Ahhh - those Jazz guys are just makin' that stuff up!" - Homer Simpson

    "Anyone who understands Jazz knows that you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it." - Yogi Berra

  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by edh View Post
    could someone explain to me what the 3 to 3 is.

    I understand the rest of the notations such r to 3, 3 to r etc.

    Granted I don't have any of Randy's material, so if you don't care to explain it I could understand.

    Thanks
    If you look at the third bar of dingusmingus' exercise, the chord is Ab7 the "melody" begins on a C which is the third of Ab7. The following chord is Db7 and it begins on an F, once again the third of the chord. Thus you have 3 to 3.

    More interestingly is the fact that we are led to to the F via the Gb. Instead of an abrupt jump from one chord tone to another you are led to the first chord tone of Db from a chord tone belonging to Ab7.

    I hope that helps

  44. #43

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    @Doublea A, thanks it does explain it. I don't have Randy's material to I can't reference that Dingus thing you mention. But you explained clearly.

    Thanks DA
    "Ahhh - those Jazz guys are just makin' that stuff up!" - Homer Simpson

    "Anyone who understands Jazz knows that you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it." - Yogi Berra

  45. #44

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    Hi Guys,

    Here are Randy Vincent's licks for G7alt to C. These are coming from pages 23 - 26 of his book Line Games.

    105 - 114

    115 - 122

    Let me know what you think

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by dingusmingus View Post
    Hi all,
    I've been working through this book for a few months now. I'm around page 19, exercise 1-66. In that part of the book, Vincent reviews a lot of the previous material. I started to play around with the different permutations of cells. This probably sounds hyper mathematical and not very useful, but for me it's a way of playing with the material to internalize it.

    Lots of the cells, or pairs of cells, start and end on the 3rd of the chord. (I just realized this leaves out the root-to-root cells. Oh well!) I thought of them in four sets
    A - 3rd to Root & Root to 3rd
    B - 3rd to 5th & 5th to 3rd
    C - 3rd to 3rd, arpeggio
    D - 3rd to 3rd, scale
    Taking each of these in any order without repetition, I believe you'd have 24 permutations. For example, the six permutations starting with A are
    ABCD
    ABDC
    ACBD
    ACDB
    ADBC
    ADCB

    I wrote those out, just to get a feel for it, though I can't read fast enough to really read this at much of a tempo. I'm pretty sure this is the type of thing that is only useful to the person who made it, but anyway, here it is:
    Randy Vincent's Cellular Approach (and other books)-randy_vincent_dominant_cell_permutations-1-jpg
    Would it be possible to attach a downloadable version, perhaps as a PDF ? Or if that doesn't work send it via email to interested members, namely me.

  47. #46

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    I am working on exercises 17 -30 for the month of June

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A View Post
    Would it be possible to attach a downloadable version, perhaps as a PDF ? Or if that doesn't work send it via email to interested members, namely me.
    Sure. I'll try to do that tonight, when I'm home.

    By the way, I'm still using the book. I'm in the second half of chapter one, where you turn the sequences into ii-Vs. To be honest, I'm still not sure where this will all lead. I'm hoping I will eventually internalize these patterns and they'll show up in my playing, creating very harmonically specific lines. That may take some practice dedicated to using them in the context of tunes. (That probably sounds obvious!)

    At a minimum, they are nice technique exercises.

    edit: ok, I've added the pdf to the original post above.
    Last edited by dingusmingus; 05-31-2017 at 08:56 PM.

  49. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A View Post
    I am working on exercises 17 -30 for the month of June
    Any chance you could make mp3s of them or any of the exercises? I don't have a lot of time to work on right now, but lots of time to listen and sing along to internalize.

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Fletcher View Post
    Any chance you could make mp3s of them or any of the exercises? I don't have a lot of time to work on right now, but lots of time to listen and sing along to internalize.
    Sure. Which exercises do you want ?

    I will work on it later today.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  51. #50
    I have this book. Have a look at it occasionally. Looking at it today, I'm struck by what occurred to me the first few times I looked at it as well: it presents some real technical challenges in articulating the shifts smoothly.

    I find that when I play through initially, without a lot of thought, there's a lot of extraneous thumb movement and hand movement generally. What I initially arrived at this morning as being probably the most efficient movement for exercise 1, for example, is to shift on the pick-up of the new position.

    So, I'm starting with thumb behind second finger at the beginning , and then, shifting my thumb on the and-of-3 (on the would-be stretch) to be exactly behind the 1st finger, with the first finger then sliding "into position" on beat 3.

    What a horrible mess to describe in text. I may do short a video of me doing this , to see if I can get Christian or someone to look at it and offer thoughts/help. I think the technical aspect of this is a big part. Musically and otherwise they're pretty straightforward.

    Oh, incidentally, I found the easiest way to work on this shift, the way I'm talking about, is to start on the pick up to beat 3, with index finger directly behind the thumb, and slidingthe index finger into beat 3. Somehow harder for me to get in the groove starting at the beginning of the pattern.

    TL;DR: Are you all shifting your thumb on the and-of-3 or somewhere else? I would think that really SWINGING the slide would be about 90% of getting this.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 05-31-2017 at 02:23 PM.