View Poll Results: Poll: How far have you made with the Richie Zellon's course? (vol 1)

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  • Quit after 0-3

    1 20.00%
  • Quit after 4-6

    0 0%
  • Quit after 7-8

    0 0%
  • Working on 0-3

    2 40.00%
  • Working on 4-6

    1 20.00%
  • Working on 7-8

    1 20.00%
  • Finished

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Posts 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1

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    I am talking about the Bebop Guitar Improv Series volume 1 that focuses on the Blues progression.


    Like many other, I have read the 27 page thread before I made the decision. I am currently working on the course, somewhat behind the monthly schedule.


    Recently I have encountered a notion that most students drop out of the course before the completion, so I became curious.


    I know that some advanced cats just browse through the material, while some go in the other extreme and really ingrain the material to make it a second nature. Let’s count the modules that you have done more than half the required amount of work. Out of 9 modules, how far have you gone through?


    Maybe you could share how much time you spent daily, your level of proficiency before beginning the course, the reason for quitting if you quit, how it’s going if you are in the middle of it, what you think after finishing, etc.
    Last edited by zeepot; 03-27-2017 at 11:46 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Started last week - liking it so far.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by zeepot View Post
    I am talking about the Bebop Guitar Improv Series volume 1 that focuses on the Blues progression.


    Like many other, I have read the 27 page thread before I made the decision. I am currently working on the course, somewhat behind the monthly schedule.


    Recently I have encountered a notion that most students drop out of the course before the completion, so I became curious.


    I know that some advanced cats just browse through the material, while some go in the other extreme and really ingrain the material to make it a second nature. Let’s count the modules that you have done more than half the required amount of work. Out of 9 modules, how far have you gone through?


    Maybe you could share how much time you spent daily, your level of proficiency before beginning the course, the reason for quitting if you quit, how it’s going if you are in the middle of it, what you think after finishing, etc.

    This course has been great in helping me ingrain the sounds of the various chord tones. I am getting to where I almost know what a particular note will sound like before I play it.

    My comment on the "quitting" factor is that for many, it is not unlike taking on a diet, going back to college to get a degree, studying a new language, or trying to learn a complex skill like understanding stock trading or real estate. There are many courses and plans out there for these endeavors, and the authors get rich selling them. But, I think most don't make it and the material sits on shelves gathering dust.

  5. #4

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    Module 5 here. My pace has slowed somewhat in recent weeks. I should be ready to start the etudes for module 5 in a week or two. It's taken me 18 months to get this far but I can only put in an hour or so per day, sometimes less, and Richie's course is not the only thing I work on in my jazz guitar practice.

  6. #5

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    Module 3 for me. Incorporating it with Matt Warnock's study guide/ fb tune study group

    Sent from my vivo 1601 using Tapatalk

  7. #6

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    I have the material, but never really got beyond module 2. I do use Richie's fingerings. At the time when I started this course I didn't have any fingerings memorised, so these have stuck. I quess they don't differ that much from other fingering systems, since the notes on the fretboard stay the same. You anyway have to make few streches here and there. Anyone else using Richie's fingerings?

  8. #7

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    I definitely use them as a starting point. Each fingering has its limitations and I will slip out of them when I'd rather hammer-on for articulation purposes.

  9. #8

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    I use the fingerings as given in the course.

    I see Mr. Zellon's seven fingerings as CAGED plus extra two. For some reason he focuses on the fingerings that do not overlap with the CAGED in the beginning modules, but he says he incorporates other fingerings later in the course. At first I was a little annoyed because the course seemed disconnected from my previous practices that were more in line with CAGED. But I put some extra time to work on the etudes in the fingerings 'G', 'C', and 'D' of CAGED, and I am again happy with the course.

  10. #9

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    Considering my 2019 options. For 2018 have been on Dave Stryker (has been pretty good) but I can never upload videos and the site does not down load very well.

    Interested how people have progressed with Richie
    “When you’re creating your own ...., man, even the sky ain’t the limit.”
    Miles Davis

  11. #10

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    Still on module 6 here! Much less time to practice these days.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr View Post
    Still on module 6 here! Much less time to practice these days.
    thanks we.

    i am not familiar with course to understand what that means.
    can I ask what have you learned?

    cheers
    “When you’re creating your own ...., man, even the sky ain’t the limit.”
    Miles Davis

  13. #12

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    Sorry for the length of this, but here's my thoughts on Richie's courses:

    I finished both courses. I enjoyed them, but definitely did things my own way.

    You can expect to get proficient with modes/chord scales and the arpeggios inside of those scales in seven different positions. I mainly use the CAGED fingerings, but it's nice having the extra two fingerings in a pinch. He also explains a lot of basic music theory that is essential stuff, in my opinion. Towards the end of the first volume of lessons, he also breaks down some Parker and Kessel licks, which I learned a lot from. The second volume explores more advanced techniques like triad rows and handling rhythm changes.

    He says each module takes about a month to complete, and each volume takes about a year. Maybe if you're truly unfamiliar with chord scales or music theory, but the first volume took me two months to get through and the second volume took me somewhere around five months. Full disclosure -- I studied jazz in college for two years before changing majors, so a lot of this stuff was familiar to me, and I was also able to dedicate one to three hours of practice during the week, and at least that much on the weekends. I wouldn't expect most people to advance at the pace I set.

    A lot of people don't finish the course because they're trying to do things "by the book" and memorize every etude and every bebop calisthenic. I think you need to move on whenever you get bored or else you'll burn yourself out. If I had a hard time getting something from the lessons into my playing, I spent the time to memorize the workouts, but the stuff that I already knew about or came quickly, I would play the material for a day or two and then move on.

    There's no magic bullet to teach you how to improvise, but this gives you a lot of tools. My playing improved dramatically after finishing these courses, and I afterwards moved on to Barry Greene's video lessons which have also helped. Barry has recently released a couple "crash course" videos that cover a lot of the same material that Richie does, but in a matter of minutes instead of months. If you're already experienced and have a solid grasp of theory, that may be the way to go. If you need to move at a slower pace, it's hard to do better than Richie's courses; just don't let yourself get bogged down.
    Last edited by ClassicMillennial; 11-13-2018 at 10:18 AM. Reason: Missed word

  14. #13

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    I have taken the Bebop Callisthenics & blues etudes and adapted them to my CAGE approach which is not too difficult but took some time.

    I have at least one of the etudes from each module under my fingers, but the real work is in adapting the ideas in the Callisthenics exercises into my repertoire of pieces getting that bebop phrasing into my solos. I have found that by mixing them up with Conti lines that I already had under my fingers, together with the stuff I learned from my teacher, I am beginning to sound something like what I want to sound like.

    There is a lot of work in the Zellon approach and you will only get the benefit if you put in the hours. I have not found it easy, but now I'm seeing some results.

    Just signed up for Vol 2.

  15. #14

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    I did about half the course a few years ago, but very thoroughly. it's good, and I would have continued, but I found something that's a better fit for me.
    White belt
    My Youtube

  16. #15

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    I find it interesting to see that the poll above was closed, it looked truthful enough to me? Obviously, Richie Zellon is a master guitarist and since he’s now a Youtuber he’s probably making a good living off of his music making video's, good for him! I bought into Richie's Bebop course but I found a couple of different things that I didn't care for about it. Although it’s written out musically speaking, it didn’t have any grids and IMHO more tab would make it even better. I included a pic of grids, just to make myself clear. Many of us guitar players don’t read music, so grids and tab would be extremely helpful. That said, I now know how to read music, but I’m not about to pay another fee! More importantly than all that is, I found it to be boring, in fairness I didn't read music at the time. In short, it’s a lot of work that takes a lot of time. If you notice the above poll, many people moved onto other pursuits after 0-3 months, which in my eyes, proves my point! My last thought on it is that he would get a lot more business if he just charged the one- time fee of $89.95 and you would have access to his Bebop Course material forever. Just my 2¢


    Attached Images Attached Images Poll: How far have you made with the Richie Zellon's course? (vol 1)-img_1531-jpg 

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by fathand View Post


    I find it interesting to see that the poll above was closed, it looked truthful enough to me? Obviously, Richie Zellon is a master guitarist and since he’s now a Youtuber he’s probably making a good living off of his music making video's, good for him! I bought into Richie's Bebop course but I found a couple of different things that I didn't care for about it. Although it’s written out musically speaking, it didn’t have any grids and IMHO more tab would make it even better. I included a pic of grids, just to make myself clear. Many of us guitar players don’t read music, so grids and tab would be extremely helpful. That said, I now know how to read music, but I’m not about to pay another fee! More importantly than all that is, I found it to be boring, in fairness I didn't read music at the time. In short, it’s a lot of work that takes a lot of time. If you notice the above poll, many people moved onto other pursuits after 0-3 months, which in my eyes, proves my point! My last thought on it is that he would get a lot more business if he just charged the one- time fee of $89.95 and you would have access to his Bebop Course material forever. Just my 2¢

    Hello Fathand.

    I maybe confusing the issue, but I saw a bunch of "grids" in his book on fingerings (Mixolydian, Major, Dorian) that supplements the course in its book form (3 books total).H If I remember correctly, the fingerings were also available in the online course downloads as well. These downloads were online supplementary material. For some, it might have been difficult to navigate the course to find these grids, but I am pretty sure they were there. I could be wrong.

  18. #17

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    No, there wasn't any grids in the materials I printed out and I printed out all three Volume I publications. Maybe I didn't go far enough but I went as far as it held my interest. ~Cheers!
    Attached Images Attached Images Poll: How far have you made with the Richie Zellon's course? (vol 1)-img_1533-jpg Poll: How far have you made with the Richie Zellon's course? (vol 1)-img_1534-jpg 

  19. #18

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    So the poll says 5 folks actually enrolled in the course? Jimmy Bruno musta been scared....

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    So the poll says 5 folks actually enrolled in the course? Jimmy Bruno musta been scared....
    Nice troll! Poll: How far have you made with the Richie Zellon's course? (vol 1)

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    I did about half the course a few years ago, but very thoroughly. it's good, and I would have continued, but I found something that's a better fit for me.
    ...and...?

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    So the poll says 5 folks actually enrolled in the course? Jimmy Bruno musta been scared....
    That number kind of stunned me as well, especially for it being a Jazz guitar site. Can you say, "reality check?" Maybe folks were to busy with the threads that are study groups, and with the instructional materials this site offers?

  23. #22
    It's been forever since I looked at it . The material I got had tab and grids. It was the cheapest one, without all of the extra stuff. Just printed material mostly. I don't think I ever answered that poll.

    It's kind of a grind for just just targeting Dominant chords by the end of the course. I never used his fingerings. I don't like fourth finger stretches. If you want material on dominant enclosures and chromatic approaches for blues, this has a lot of it written out for guitar. That's a pretty specific niche though.

  24. #23

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    I vaguely remember some of the scales did have grids so I was wrong about that but it still didn't work for me at all. That said, the grids were on his website and not on anything I printed out. I also remember having to wait to enter the Volume 2, or something to that affect. It was a bit different in that respect, the whole program was a non-memorable lesson for me. I live and I learn!
    Last edited by fathand; 09-04-2019 at 02:14 AM.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    It's been forever since I looked at it . The material I got had tab and grids. It was the cheapest one, without all of the extra stuff. Just printed material mostly. I don't think I ever answered that poll.

    It's kind of a grind for just just targeting Dominant chords by the end of the course. I never used his fingerings. I don't like fourth finger stretches. If you want material on dominant enclosures and chromatic approaches for blues, this has a lot of it written out for guitar. That's a pretty specific niche though.
    May I add that as the course progresses, other harmony is introduced that has you targeting notes using other scales such as Dorian, Major, and if I remember correctly modes like Locrian. By the time one is done, if they can stick to the course, they should have internalized ways to solo over a Jazz Blues song that can be anything from basic to one that is full of 2-5-1 substitutions of various flavors. Which should set you up to handle all Jazz songs.

    From listening to how the exercises progressed once he started allowing you to have full access to all the lessons, by the end you are playing some really nice Jazz lines. He has a separate course that tackles non Jazz Blues songs.
    Last edited by AlsoRan; 09-04-2019 at 08:21 AM.

  26. #25

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    I started it with great expectations and didn't make it past the first few lessons. I'm not sure why. I know I didn't like the pedantic nature of his fingerings. I play contra bass and fiddle and use my pinky a lot. I already sort have my own way of getting around based on arpeggios and his boxes seemed so vertical and boxed in.

    But I'm sure the system is fine and any shortcoming was in my own approach, not his.