-
Yeah that too, absolutely. The point I'm trying to make is that playing without an amp is harder in the way that it's not as immediately gratifying. It alters your focus, for me at least, in a good way.
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
Quite aside from developing one's vocab - which seems to be our main focus- developing technique is a bitch, flesh is dumb, and it takes forever to see improvements, especially if you're older and have been playing for a while. Life is short, I'll take any idea that can speed things up a little. How about practicing high action 1950's flat wound strings unamplified in the dark, and half the time using only your ring and pinky! Actually, I'm only half kidding, I tried this the other day and I swear I could suddenly play things cleanly at very brisk tempos that I have never been able to before.
Plugging in now is my reward for some real work done!........
-
08-16-2009 01:27 PM
-
Yeah, bad habits can be hard to break. I don't think that flesh is dumb per se, it's just a slow learner. But once learned, flesh has a pretty good memory (talking muscle memory here). This is what makes learning the fundamentals correctly so important. Originally Posted by princeplanet
And there is no substitute for time on the instrument. This makes the accomplishments of great players all that more impressive, we know, or have an idea, of how much time they had to put into their playing to get where they are.
-
Right on, mr Curran, and it makes me practice another 2 or 3 hours a day every time I hear one of the greats and realise I'm already 45, so much to learn and so little time left.
Peace
Skei (the time waits for no one and it won't etc one)
Originally Posted by John Curran
-
There is the train of thought that says we should always practise with the same box'o'tricks that we do on a gig.
You would not hear of, say, a world class violinist or cellist, practising on a dodgy bros fiddle when they have a Stad in the cupboard. Nor would they use extra heavy strings.
I love the sound of my guitar and want to sound good all the time; not just when someone is listening.
But I may change my mind.
Or I may not.
think I will.. no
-
I was practicing, or fiddling around, some chords and lines just now. Unamplified, on the ibanez. Ok, it's not the same as amplified, agreed, but it works, and it's fast, I just saw a video of John Stowell playing something he labelled 'modern' chord style, and wanted to try and learn some of the concept. Quickly jumped to the guitar and started playing, and woke up an hour later realising it's about time for coffee. I would have lost the incentive to dig into it all if I'd started plugging in amps and stuff, so I didn't. At other times, though, I go electric. It all depends on the situation, I suppose. Moreover, I'm too old to start worrying about gigs and stuff, suffice it to say I'll practice, do some recordings, if my life proves to be long enough for a gig or so, well, I guess I'll have to start rehearsing regularly with amp, because if planning to do live stuff with amp, I really see no other option but rehearsing with amp...
Peace
Skei (the just had coffee one)
-
Sorry, bit late, but stumbled on this discussion started by Princeplanet.
My answer : both, depending on instrument and music-style.
If you practice jazz on a full-body jazzguitar, I would always do this amplified, because as Whiskywheels already wrote " it is an electric
guitar" and should be treated accordingly. Otherwise where is the full,
warm tone you like to hear during a gig ? So practice this amplified !
If, however, I practice another style of music like latin bossa-nova's- or
portugese fado-like melodies I do this unamplified on a full-body acoustic
allthough the instrument can also be payed amplified. Here the sound is
more depending on the technical skills of both hands that make the rich
sound. And by the way : On a Chorus Cube the "Acoustic" amp.-type
is amazingly good and rich for this type of music.
Lots of fun,
Harry
-
Personally I find practicing amplified is a critical part of maintaining good tone creation with the pick. It is considerably more acute than when playing an electric guitar acoustically - not entirely regardless of it's acoustic volume, of course, but very significant nonetheless.
-
Well, it seems most of you practice amplified. I'm pretty sure that practicing unamplified has helped my dynamics a great deal. Also my articulation, I like to hear every note clearly, like Bird says, the aim is to play clean, regardless of instrument. Maybe the reason why acoustic players (eg Django) have a powerfully expressive yet clean technique. There aren't many serious bad habits to acquire this way that can't easily be rectified by altering your gtr and amp tone to suit your acoustically acquired technique.
Conversely, years of practicing amplified may reveal a less than convincing technique when one turns off the amp, perhaps the reason we don't like to do it?.....
If many Jazz lovers complain that the guitar is the least favorite instrument to listen to, it could be due to our limited dynamic control due to learning to let the amp do the work the fingers could. Of course, there are exceptions. I bet you Benson still sounds great with the amp off!
-
Wow, interesting. Personally I find amplified practice SO much less forgiving. Esp. regarding dynamics, articulation and tone production. Originally Posted by princeplanet
-
Originally Posted by princeplanet
If you are plugged in and practicing you will "feel" the strings just as well and be able to "hear" the strings also. Practice the way you will be performing. If you always play standing and only practice sitting you may have a problem when the show comes around. Same thing for plugging in.
=-) PJ
-
Hmmm, maybe it's to do with me starting on classical guitar and having drummed into me that one's individual tone comes from the fingers (really, the whole body) more so than it does from the instrument, let alone the amplifier. It may not be such an errant observation ya know, I never knew a sax player that played differently when you stuck a piezo on his axe..... Originally Posted by menialmoose
-
Princeplanet, you make some very pertinent points but I think you are slightly misunderstanding the use of the amplifier here. Yes of course the tone comes from the player but you can't improve your technique by fiddling with your amp and guitar controls.
Also you assume that one should be able to play with equal facility on both amplified and acoustic guitars. I would argue that we are here talking about a range of instruments that go from the classical guitar at one end to the synthesised, all preamped, self-tuning, electronic, bits of whatever material, with strings on, at the other. The two extremes are in essence different instruments and are played with a different approach and feel. And yes, with all the distortion and effects available on the latter instrument, one can cover up an immense number of inadequacies, but with an archtop going through a straight, clean amp, I don't think I can agree with you.
Also, as I said in an earlier post on this thread, I play a semi-acoustic using a plec and I always used to practice unamplified (I had to, we didn't have electricity for a while!). When I started practicing and playing amplified, it glaringly showed up how sloppy my playing was. Mind you, that could just have been that I was crap
Last edited by musicalbodger; 09-27-2009 at 11:37 AM.
-
So, how many hours you guys keep that up a day? Cos allz I'm sayin... you know, that can add up to a whole lot of standing just to practice barely enough...
-
How long do you stand playing an extended gig? You also have to develop stamina. It's not much fun if you're fingers and legs are like rubber after 30 minutes.So, how many hours you guys keep that up a day? Cos allz I'm sayin... you know, that can add up to a whole lot of standing just to practice barely enough...
That said, practicing for long periods without a break can be unproductive. Much better to have short, focused sessions with lots of breaks. How else do you get time to answer posts on the forum
-
huh? That's what I'm saying! Don't get me wrong, I know amplifiers, I've owned dozens of them and played many styles of elec gtr over the years, but I grew bored with the way most guitarists, myself included, sound sloppy and undynamic when trying to play lines that the sax guys seem to peel off with ease. Obviously we have a tougher instrument in that regard, but I,ve been noticing that the players that get my attention are the ones that have dynamic articulation that comes from the fingers. Not just Django, Wes or Benson, but even some of the rock/blues guys like Hendrix, SRV etc. Originally Posted by musicalbodger
I'll say it again, I really believe that if you heard these guys unplugged, they would still sound compelling. Not sure if they practiced sans amp or not, but the only way for me to concentrate on that aspect of my tone is to turn off the amp and make even a solid body try to sound musical. I urge anyone to try it for a few months, I feel quite sure it will produce more good than harm. Even made me re-asses what guitar to use and what amp tones to choose in order to best amplify this new found dynamic control.....
-
Sorry if I misunderstood you, PP. Unintentional I assure you. Don't you think that the reason the guys you mention sound so compelling is that they were/are just shit hot players?
I think the real nub of this is that in order to be THAT good, you just have to practice, practice, practice until the instrument becomes a part of you. I got a bit slated for a similar comment on another thread, but speaking from experience, to be good in any field of the arts you have to practice until you can play/paint/sculpt without thinking about technique, it is just inside you. It is part of you and when this happens then you can fly.
-
True enough, but life is short for us mortals, so I have to now get interested in the quality of practice as well as the sheer amount. The kind of practice one does determines their sound/style, Wes's thumb, Dimeola's "mutola", Django's double fingered idiosyncracies, as well as many of the old greats that struggled for years with stiff, thick strings and neck action like telegraph wires! Often the handicap becomes the strength, ... and the point of difference. Vive le difference!
-
I hear what you say PP, but I also think that, once you reach a certain level, playing live is almost more important than "practice". It embeds "stuff" much more deeply and quickly than working in a sterile practice environment. When you reach the point where you can think about these things whilst you're actually playing — splitting the mind in two as it were, that enables you to master many things that are a struggle when practicing. Problem is finding the right playing situations.
-
who says that just because you're amplified that you gotta try to ape horn lines? Originally Posted by princeplanet
i stick to my guns, you gotta practice the way you actually play. you can still have dynamics and play amplified, and you can work on those dynamics while playing amplified.
the idea that somehow the acoustic guitar is more expressive or responsive to picking dynamics is simply untrue.
-
Well, it should be untrue, the amplifier has the potential to enlarge the dynamic range, but let's face it, because of the magnetic hysteresis, the mechanical damping of amp and speaker, the tone rolling employed by many and the fact we love tubes so much, all these factors conspire to radically diminish the dynamic range. I'm a sound engineer by trade and when we record elec gtrs, we take a live split from a DI (pre fx and amp). In protools the differnce in the dynamics of the waveforms b/n what comes straight out of the gtr vs what comes out the amp is always clear for all to see what happens. Compression, natural or otherwise, is used as a crutch for many guitarists, to mask their lack of dynamic control. Why do we love dynamics? To ape horn players? No, ultimately to ape singers! You can't get more humanly expressive than that, so that should be the aim of all musicians, even if you're a vibes player, ie, engage a listener like you're telling them, nay, singing them a story.
Me, I never like to listen to voices that lack an engaging dynamic. Do you?
-
'Hysteresis?'... Princeplanet - what're you trying to say? Ok, I'm new here so I mean this extra politely ok? But put simply: What's the minimum amount of volume one can produce from picking amplified or unamplified? Similar enough. It's practice. Your amp's not going to be on some insane gain setting (unless you're working on that kind of thing.) What's the difference in the maximum amounts of volume? The 335 or to a lesser extent the Artcore I work out on kinda reveals just a little more amplified, I can turn it up as much I need to. I mean, yeah, it's a valid point if you're thrashing around but we are talking practice here. Reasonably - practicing clean amplified - and I do it with my solid state H&K instead of the Twin for added honesty, responsiveness, whatever - is going to go way further from ... 'soft' to 'loud'. There is obvious merit in what you say, but recording and gigs ain't practice. Which moderately addresses other above points such as the 'practice it like you gig it' notion. This, I think barely touches the sides of what you'll confront, but basically agree with for players with a sound based more on their amp and/or processing.
I am familiar with and understand all the audio terms and concepts you mention above.
-
Hysteresis refers to non linear responses, particularly with respect to magnetic pickup devices , microphones and tape heads etc. Anyway, if you set your amp quietly to basically mimic your guitars natural dynamic response, that's great! Especially as now you won't really need to practice amplified, no dynamic difference right?.....
-
Well, I have the same problems as Wes (but not the same answers
). I have kids who go to bed at "sensible" times, my next-door-neighbour works odd hours and he's a good guy, I don't want to interrupt his sleeping time....all in all, I need creative solutions to this have come up with the following options
Practice amplified - using a Micro-Cube that has similar sonic possibilities to my Cube60 - thus working on electric techniques/sounds - when there's no-one about
Practice unamplified - using my Epiphone electro, so I'm audible but not as loud as a full acoustic - when "him next door" is an issue, but not "them upstairs"
Practice "silently" - Yamaha Silent Nylon-string, headphones - when being heard at all is a problem. The good news about this set up is that the Yamaha has an input for my iPod, so I can play along with recordings or Aebersold tracks and not even disturb my wife watching TV at the far end of the room.
No, it's not ideal, but if I don't compromise like this, then some of the time I can't practice at all and I need all of the time on the instrument that I can get. In fact I probably need more than that, but what can you do??
Reply With Quote
Ibanez archtop with 0.010 Thomastik strings and...
Today, 05:27 AM in The Builder's Bench