Satin Doll - Robert Conti's Ticket to Improv

**MarkRhodes** · 02-26-2017, 10:36 PM

Members of the Conti study group working on the "Ticket To Improv" solos from Volume One, this is the thread for the first solo, "Satin Doll."

I think we'll be moving 8 bars at a clip. (If that's too fast for you, go at your own pace. No one will mind. The main thing is to learn something, to share it with your buds here, and live through the agony we all know from playing that perfect rehearsal take and then turning on the camera and playing, um, non-perfect...;o)

This post will be amended when the first deadline is settled on. Stay tuned!

**Doublea A** · 02-26-2017, 10:40 PM

Sounds great. Where do I get the transcriptions?

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**losaltosjoe** · 02-26-2017, 11:16 PM

Re-posting my first pass at Satin Doll bars 1-8. Played it straight (i.e., eighth notes) as written in Conti's transcription that comes with the DVD.

**snailspace** · 02-27-2017, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by Doublea A

Sounds great. Where do I get the transcriptions?

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Hi!

Here's a brief introduction to Robert Conti and an overview of what we hope to accomplish as a study group. The link also includes ordering information for Conti's Ticket To Improv series, and a coupon code for a sweet discount on the DVDs. We're starting with Volume One in the series. Hope you can join us!

Robert Conti's Ticket To Improv

**snailspace** · 02-27-2017, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by losaltosjoe

Re-posting my first pass at Satin Doll bars 1-8. Played it straight (i.e., eighth notes) as written in Conti's transcription that comes with the DVD.

Sounds good, Joe!

**lickerz101** · 02-27-2017, 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by losaltosjoe

Re-posting my first pass at Satin Doll bars 1-8. Played it straight (i.e., eighth notes) as written in Conti's transcription that comes with the DVD.

Well played joe.love the slides

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**MarkRhodes** · 02-27-2017, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Doublea A

Sounds great. Where do I get the transcriptions?

It comes with the DVD. (There's nowhere else to get it.)

**lawson-stone** · 02-27-2017, 11:36 AM

I'd like to suggest the title of this thread be adjusted to put "Satin Doll" at the start, so when the thread titles are chopped in browsers, all the Conti Group study threads don't look alike.

**MikeS** · 02-27-2017, 01:00 PM

I learned this solo a while back and when I heard about this study group, I wanted to participate. It still needs a little work, but I wanted to get something uploaded.

Thanks for starting this study group.

Mike

**MarkRhodes** · 02-27-2017, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I'd like to suggest the title of this thread be adjusted to put "Satin Doll" at the start, so when the thread titles are chopped in browsers, all the Conti Group study threads don't look alike.

Done!

**lawson-stone** · 02-27-2017, 01:42 PM

Like Leo said in The Quick and the Dead: "That was fast!"

**Dennygomez** · 02-27-2017, 01:53 PM

Just speaks to how basic the material is, or the experience of this "snail" dude. Besides, how do we know that's really him? Can you say "ringer" kids?
Seriously, snails, I'm getting that this solo is designed to be used the second time through, since the melody is not there.

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**Dennygomez** · 02-27-2017, 02:01 PM

Oips, that was losaltosjoe's post.

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**Dennygomez** · 02-27-2017, 02:02 PM

Oops, that was losaltosjoe's post.

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**snailspace** · 02-27-2017, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by MikeS

I learned this solo a while back and when I heard about this study group, I wanted to participate. It still needs a little work, but I wanted to get something uploaded.
Mike

Glad you're here, Mike -- nice work!

**snailspace** · 02-27-2017, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Dennygomez

Seriously, snails, I'm getting that this solo is designed to be used the second time through, since the melody is not there.

I don't think it's necessarily intended as a way to build on the melody. It's more of a set of lines that can be used over changes. As you learn the solos for each project, you see a similarity between some of the lines, with the idea that they can be used to cover a variety of situations. In Project 4, you'll use the lines you learned to create a solo (or solos) over a new tune that has no solo.

Probably the most well-known example of this approach to learning improv is the second half of the Mickey Baker book, where he writes out lines and runs to use over various cadences. Jody Fisher has you compose solos in his book Beginning Jazz Guitar, and Garrison Fewell recommended it in his books, too. Mark Stefani calls them "model solos," and encourages students to create their own in his course Swing Blues: the Doorway to Jazz.

**Dennygomez** · 02-27-2017, 08:44 PM

I get it. I was just thinking of what this thing is. I always see it like the part where the plane breaks through the clouds. You climb up there on the melody, enter the cloud layer, and then bust through.

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**MarkRhodes** · 02-27-2017, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by snailspace

Probably the most well-known example of this approach to learning improv is the second half of the Mickey Baker book, where he writes out lines and runs to use over various cadences.

I still use some of those lines! Good, tasty stuff.

**snailspace** · 02-28-2017, 08:09 PM

I think this solo is fun to play, and it gets me doing a lot of things I would not think to do on my own: approach notes, enclosures, double-stops, and especially all of the chromatic stuff. I dig the big move up the neck to the 10th fret for the Gm7-C7 in the "B" section, then what I think of as a "chromatic ladder" back down again. I'm sure I'll figure out the "why" the more I play, but for now, the playing alone is rewarding enough.

**MikeS** · 02-28-2017, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by snailspace

I think this solo is fun to play, and it gets me doing a lot of things I would not think to do on my own: approach notes, enclosures, double-stops, and especially all of the chromatic stuff. I dig the big move up the neck to the 10th fret for the Gm7-C7 in the "B" section, then what I think of as a "chromatic ladder" back down again. I'm sure I'll figure out the "why" the more I play, but for now, the playing alone is rewarding enough.

Good one!! This is what I like about the Conti approach. There is a little bit of everything in these solos.

Mike

**losaltosjoe** · 03-01-2017, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by snailspace

I think this solo is fun to play, and it gets me doing a lot of things I would not think to do on my own: approach notes, enclosures, double-stops, and especially all of the chromatic stuff. I dig the big move up the neck to the 10th fret for the Gm7-C7 in the "B" section, then what I think of as a "chromatic ladder" back down again. I'm sure I'll figure out the "why" the more I play, but for now, the playing alone is rewarding enough.

Nice job Jeff! I agree with your comment that Conti's material "gets me doing a lot of things I would not think to do on my own."

**snailspace** · 03-01-2017, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by losaltosjoe

I agree with your comment that Conti's material "gets me doing a lot of things I would not think to do on my own."

Thanks, Joe! The way I view Conti's teaching style has a lot in common with what I read in Dave Ruggiero's essay. You've probably already seen it, but I thought I'd share it here so those who are new to Conti can read it, if they like:

The Turning Point by Dave Ruggiero | RobertConti.com

**MikeS** · 03-01-2017, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by snailspace

Thanks, Joe! The way I view Conti's teaching style has a lot in common with what I read in Dave Ruggiero's essay. You've probably already seen it, but I thought I'd share it here so those who are new to Conti can read it, if they like:

The Turning Point by Dave Ruggiero | RobertConti.com

Thanks for sharing Dave's essay. I had not read it before. I know Conti always emphasizes that you learn by playing your instrument.

Mike

**MikeS** · 03-01-2017, 01:49 PM

I know Conti emphasizes over and over you learn by playing your instrument. In the Source Code Jazz Lines book he says students are always asking him about what is he thinking when improvising over a IIm7 - V7 - I. In the first portion of his response he said he treats the entire cadence as a "One."

I don't think we need to get into extensive theory here, but has anyone broken down what he teaches over the "Satin Doll" solo and how it relates to his response above?

Mike

**lawson-stone** · 03-01-2017, 03:27 PM

You guys are driving me crazy with the clips... I'm still waiting for my books to arrive so I'm chomping a little at the proverbial bit. Soon as they get here I will be starting in.

Maybe my first clip will be the unboxing...

**MarkRhodes** · 03-01-2017, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Maybe my first clip will be the unboxing...

Lawson, you may have been spending too much time on Facebook! ;o)

Have you received a shipping notice?

**lawson-stone** · 03-01-2017, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Lawson, you may have been spending too much time on Facebook! ;o)

Have you received a shipping notice?

I just checked the tracking notice and it's due to deliver TOMORROW (Thursday).

"Satin Doll" was the first jazz standard I tried to learn, the first one I ever had a kind of "breath through" on and one that I obsess over constantly. How many II-Vs can you fit into one song?

I have also learned that except for 2 spots, you can solo over the entire thing using only the Am Pentatonic scale. You won't make history, but you will make music. In two spots the scale needs to drop back a half step, but otherwise the Am Pentatonic or "blues" scale can cover the whole tune.

**snailspace** · 03-01-2017, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

You guys are driving me crazy with the clips... I'm still waiting for my books to arrive so I'm chomping a little at the proverbial bit. Soon as they get here I will be starting in.

Maybe my first clip will be the unboxing...

You could live-stream it!

**snailspace** · 03-01-2017, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by MikeS

I know Conti emphasizes over and over you learn by playing your instrument. In the Source Code Jazz Lines book he says students are always asking him about what is he thinking when improvising over a IIm7 - V7 - I. In the first portion of his response he said he treats the entire cadence as a "One."

I don't think we need to get into extensive theory here, but has anyone broken down what he teaches over the "Satin Doll" solo and how it relates to his response above?

Mike

I haven't, not really. Other than notice which lines are over major, minor, or dominant chords -- or progressions such as ii-V or turnarounds. Conti explains a few things here and there on the DVD, so I try to understand those things; but for now, I'm just playing the lines -- over and over -- trying to get fluent. I'll think about it a little harder when I get to Project 4 and beyond.

**snailspace** · 03-01-2017, 07:15 PM

In addition to Lawson, who else is waiting for the DVD? Just curious.

**Doublea A** · 03-01-2017, 07:31 PM

I just ordered Volume 1. I hope to post something soon.

**Dennygomez** · 03-01-2017, 07:58 PM

I's wait'n

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**snailspace** · 03-01-2017, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Doublea A

I just ordered Volume 1. I hope to post something soon.

That's great -- glad you're in!

**snailspace** · 03-01-2017, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dennygomez

I's wait'n

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They're pretty quick about getting things sent out. I ordered a Play Pro Chord Melody Today! DVD on Friday, and it arrived on Monday. Hope yours arrives soon.

**Dennygomez** · 03-01-2017, 08:14 PM

It shipped Monday, per the Conti-ites

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**Dennygomez** · 03-01-2017, 10:01 PM

It was in my mailbox today. Can you say "late night printing session"? I knew you could!

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**JazzinNY** · 03-01-2017, 10:45 PM

Quote MikeS:

"I don't think we need to get into extensive theory here, but has anyone broken down what he teaches over the "Satin Doll" solo and how it relates to his response above?"

He is fond of starting with the "4" chord (a general sub for a "tension" chord) inverted with the 7th tucked under.

E.g. Fmaj 7 = F A C E. So he'll play E F A C.

He may have internalized that sub so much that he's thinking of the general tonic.

**snailspace** · 03-01-2017, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Dennygomez

It was in my mailbox today. Can you say "late night printing session"? I knew you could!

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Glad you got it -- have fun!

**MikeS** · 03-02-2017, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by JazzinNY

He is fond of starting with the "4" chord (a general sub for a "tension" chord) inverted with the 7th tucked under.

E.g. Fmaj 7 = F A C E. So he'll play E F A C.

He may have internalized that sub so much that he's thinking of the general tonic.

If I am reading this right, in bar one he is seeing the Dm7, G7 as one and substituting it with an Fmaj7 thereby covering the both the Dm7 and G7 chords with basically one chord.

Mike

**Dennygomez** · 03-02-2017, 02:28 PM

Will Band in a Box import these midi files so I can hear better backing tracks?

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**MarkRhodes** · 03-02-2017, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Dennygomez

Will Band in a Box import these midi files so I can hear better backing tracks?

The tracks (Midi and mp3) that come with Conti's DVD are fine. For those who are new to Conti, you may not know that the transcripts and audio files are on the DVD. Open the DVD on your computer and you'll find the files. You can print the transcriptions and download the audio files.

Jimmy Bruno uses BIAB for the backing tracks he provides students. Here's my take of "Satin Doll" with a Freddie Green style comp. (The tempo is around 140.) This is a good tune (or set of changes) to practice swing comping on.

**Dennygomez** · 03-02-2017, 03:35 PM

"...Here's my take of "Satin Doll" with a Freddie Green style comp. "

I really appreciate how efficient those chords grips are, and the capture everything I'm hearing in the Real Book arrangement.

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**lawson-stone** · 03-02-2017, 05:38 PM

So while awaiting the arrival of my DVDs, I decided to post a clip simply playing the head at a moderate tempo. This is without a backing track, but it's not really a "solo guitar arrangement." First, it's not an arrangement. I've played SD for 25 years and nowadays when i play the "head" I honestly have no idea what's going to come out in terms of voicings. That said, I do understand everything I play in this, and can explain any voicing or grip if anyone is interested.

Also, it's not "solo guitar" in that I don't try to harmonize the whole thing, don't do consistent bass lines, etc. This is more or less how I'd play it if I had a bass and drums in a trio. With a piano in the mix, I'd hold back on the chordal stuff a bit more too.

The guitar is a stock Peerless Monarch 17" and seriously, you wouldn't believe the pickup on this thing. BTW for those signal-chain-geeks out there, I'm playing through a DV Mark Micro 50 head, a 10" speaker, and I'm using the direct line from the amp on one side and a Shure SM 57 to catch the sound from the speaker.

I feel pretty strongly-- but I wouldn't push this on anyone else--that when I learn a pre-written or transcribed solo for a standard, I want to be able to play the head and then play the solo, sort of simulating being a "real jazz guitar player."

Like Frank Sinatra said, "...it'll have to do, until the real thing comes along!"

**Dennygomez** · 03-02-2017, 06:23 PM

I like that, Lawson-stone. That's a nice comp and melodic solo. Cool.

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**snailspace** · 03-02-2017, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I feel pretty strongly-- but I wouldn't push this on anyone else--that when I learn a pre-written or transcribed solo for a standard, I want to be able to play the head and then play the solo, sort of simulating being a "real jazz guitar player."

I agree -- although I've only recently learned the value of it. Going through a tune by playing the head, taking a crack at a solo (even one that's been transcribed, which is all I'm able to do), then comping a verse or two is a good way to practice shifting gears in real time with a particular piece.

Nice playing, by the way -- I liked the way you moved between chords, lines, and bass notes. I'm not there, myself, but now I've got a new goal!

**snailspace** · 03-02-2017, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Here's my take of "Satin Doll" with a Freddie Green style comp. (The tempo is around 140.) This is a good tune (or set of changes) to practice swing comping on.

Good stuff -- something I need to work on, for sure.

**losaltosjoe** · 03-02-2017, 10:24 PM

[QUOTE=lawson-stone;747969]
I feel pretty strongly-- but I wouldn't push this on anyone else--that when I learn a pre-written or transcribed solo for a standard, I want to be able to play the head and then play the solo, sort of simulating being a "real jazz guitar player."

Ditto! When I started with Conti's TTl series I was determined to use it as an opportunity to learn songs (not just solos) and build a repertoire (including chords/comping, melody, and solo). My biggest problem is remembering the song when I move on to the next one... sigh...

I really enjoyed your playing Lawson-Stone! Great motivation for me to get to work on the weekend.

**MarkRhodes** · 03-02-2017, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I feel pretty strongly-- but I wouldn't push this on anyone else--that when I learn a pre-written or transcribed solo for a standard, I want to be able to play the head and then play the solo, sort of simulating being a "real jazz guitar player."

I feel that way too. And if you can comp / sing a chorus, all the better! And if you can take it the next level like Bucky's boy John Pizzarelli does here, look out! (Not "Satin Doll," but another Ellington classic.)

**losaltosjoe** · 03-03-2017, 02:27 AM

**andyb** · 03-03-2017, 01:06 PM

I have decided to join in after all, and I will be working through Satin Doll with you lot.

I have been thinking about how to get this down, so that I can see a chord on a lead sheet, and then have a line that will fit.

So what do you think about this approach?

Firstly, learn the lines as written.

Then see where the line starts per bar or chord, then work out a visual cue on the fretboard that I can use as a reference point.

So for example in bar 1 Dm7/G7. this line starts with a E, so that cue could be find D 5th string root on the fret board then move up 2 frets to start the line on the E.