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  1. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Made this during my morning practice. Not great, not awful, good in spots. Getting better (though not as soon as I'd like.) Using a Crossover Pick lately (this is the Kodiak) and I like it, though some fine-tuning remains to be done.

    That was great Mark !
    What was your tempo ?


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  3. #377

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A
    That was great Mark !
    What was your tempo ?
    Thanks. I was playing along with the CD, so it's 100 bpm. (I find this track, #11, useful to try other rhythm changes lines over too. For example, the first solo from Herb Ellis' book "Rhythm Shapes". I can never play that at Herb's tempo---parts of it, sure, but not the double-time parts----but I can play it at this tempo.)

    This etude is kinda nifty. I didn't like it at first, and I thought that long phrase in the bridge (five measures!) would never get under my fingers but it wasn't as hard to learn as I had feared and it has grown on me. (It helps that the tempo is moderate.)

  4. #378

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    I wonder why more people aren't participating in this study group. Frank's etudes are tasty, varied, and not too difficult. There's a lot to learn from this guy! And the etudes sound good and hang together well----always a plus. ;o)

  5. #379

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I wonder why more people aren't participating in this study group. Frank's etudes are tasty, varied, and not too difficult. There's a lot to learn from this guy! And the etudes sound good and hang together well----always a plus. ;o)
    It might help generate interest to start a new thread every few weeks as one moves from on book or section of a book to the next.

  6. #380

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    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP
    It might help generate interest to start a new thread every few weeks as one moves from on book or section of a book to the next.
    That's a great idea! Thanks.

  7. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP
    It might help generate interest to start a new thread every few weeks as one moves from on book or section of a book to the next.
    That’s a good idea.
    What does everyone else here think about that ?


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  8. #382

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I wonder why more people aren't participating in this study group. Frank's etudes are tasty, varied, and not too difficult. There's a lot to learn from this guy! And the etudes sound good and hang together well----always a plus. ;o)
    I wouldn't know why not more people are participating but I'll tell you why I don't anymore:

    I've been "obsessed" with learning to play over the RC progression twice in my "studies" and have concentrated on them for long periods of time assuming that if I'd be able to play comfortably through them would take me to a place where it would help me playing over changes of jazz standards in a big way. No....

    I started with five solos I found on youtube - learning and memorizing them, changing some of the fingerings where I thought them more suited to my playing style and technique.
    Dropped them for a while until I found Frank's books and took up RC again - again learning and memorizing more than half a dozen of his etudes.
    Actually it didn't do much for my inprovisational skills re: RC.

    Happened upon a short tutorial by FV wehre he claims that he himself can't follow the changes going by so fast (I don't believe you Frank....LOL!) and that a better way of getting a grip on them is playing blues lines over the changes - plus quite a few comments on this forum that the progression is basically still in the key center of let's say Bb and you don't have to follow each chord change made me change and play blues licks over RC changes. Since blues has been my hometurf for more than fourty years it made things a lot easier for me...

    Still following this thread with great interest, though and I appreciate all of your contributions. Who knows - I may learn another one of Frank's etudes in the future...



  9. #383

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO

    Happened upon a short tutorial by FV wehre he claims that he himself can't follow the changes going by so fast (I don't believe you Frank....LOL!) and that a better way of getting a grip on them is playing blues lines over the changes - plus quite a few comments on this forum that the progression is basically still in the key center of let's say Bb and you don't have to follow each chord change made me change and play blues licks over RC changes. Since blues has been my hometurf for more than fourty years it made things a lot easier for me...

    Still following this thread with great interest, though and I appreciate all of your contributions. Who knows - I may learn another one of Frank's etudes in the future...
    I like that Vignola video. (Think I posted it in the "Bruno picking" thread recently, as talk turned to FV for a time.) One thing I like about Frank's approach is that it is often bluesy (-my home turf too) and also thematic. Barney Kessel was a lot like this too: making a simple statement, repeating it, then varying it. (Sonny Rollins also does this a lot, as did Coltrane----curiously, Rollins, Kessel, and Coltrane came up with some great tunes on their own! Could there be a connection???)

    Playing over rhythm changes can be like playing over blues is that you start out learning some phrases you like and how to play them at different parts of the progression, then find various ways to connect the phrases. After awhile, ideally, you're mixing and matching phrases from different solos and you're not sure where this or that phrase came from.

    A lot of players have said what Frank says about not being able to play over the changes by thinking of each change in turn. The tempo is too fast. John Scofield talks about this in a video somewhere. Herb Ellis would play out of one shape for 8 bars. (Or sometimes combine multiple shapes but the whole A section is pretty much Bb, you just have to make the change to the four in the fifth measure, which makes it like a blues, and then there's the turnaround. The whole A-section is pretty much turnarounds!)

  10. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I like that Vignola video. (Think I posted it in the "Bruno picking" thread recently, as talk turned to FV for a time.) One thing I like about Frank's approach is that it is often bluesy (-my home turf too) and also thematic. Barney Kessel was a lot like this too: making a simple statement, repeating it, then varying it. (Sonny Rollins also does this a lot, as did Coltrane----curiously, Rollins, Kessel, and Coltrane came up with some great tunes on their own! Could there be a connection???)

    Playing over rhythm changes can be like playing over blues is that you start out learning some phrases you like and how to play them at different parts of the progression, then find various ways to connect the phrases. After awhile, ideally, you're mixing and matching phrases from different solos and you're not sure where this or that phrase came from.

    A lot of players have said what Frank says about not being able to play over the changes by thinking of each change in turn. The tempo is too fast. John Scofield talks about this in a video somewhere. Herb Ellis would play out of one shape for 8 bars. (Or sometimes combine multiple shapes but the whole A section is pretty much Bb, you just have to make the change to the four in the fifth measure, which makes it like a blues, and then there's the turnaround. The whole A-section is pretty much turnarounds!)
    Great insight Mark.


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  11. #385

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    Hey, guys,
    Wanted to update you on my Private Lesson with Frank Vignola via True Fire.
    First, how the lessons work. You pick a teacher and pay for the lesson. You send (via TF) the teacher some background info (years playing, 3 favorite players, styles of interest, and, as clearly as possible, a description of what you hope to get from the lesson.) Plus a video.
    The video I sent Frank was me playing Etude #9.
    He thought it sounded good and noted that I could hear the lines correctly because I was playing them correctly.
    Then he gave me the first part of my assignment for this lesson:
    Play a C major only on the high E string. Then all on the B string, up and down. (Up an octave plus a couple notes, then down.) Do this on the other four strings. Then do this in all 12 keys.

    He told me it took him a month to learn this and he was already a pro at the time and had played Carnegie Hall. It's not the work of a day, or a week. But it is the key to linking the ear and hand.

    That's just the first part of the assignment.

    Phew!

    Not sure how long that will take me but it will do me good, I know. I'm far enough along to realize that I need to do this and (I hope) I'm actually willing to do it, day in and day out, week in and week out. (It's not an all-day thing but an everyday thing, like learning inversions.)

    So rest assured, I'm working on Frank Vignola material!

    Going over some etudes from "Jamming the Blues" to use in another study group. Trying to focus more on rhythmic phrasing. That's a strength of Frank's. I love those singing, swinging lines. (In this sense, I'm more of a swing guy than a bebop guy, though Charlie Parker was a master at playing phrases with great rhythms.)

    So I haven't dropped out. I hope more people join this parade. I think Frank's etudes are solid and helpful.

  12. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Hey, guys,
    Wanted to update you on my Private Lesson with Frank Vignola via True Fire.
    First, how the lessons work. You pick a teacher and pay for the lesson. You send (via TF) the teacher some background info (years playing, 3 favorite players, styles of interest, and, as clearly as possible, a description of what you hope to get from the lesson.) Plus a video.
    The video I sent Frank was me playing Etude #9.
    He thought it sounded good and noted that I could hear the lines correctly because I was playing them correctly.
    Then he gave me the first part of my assignment for this lesson:
    Play a C major only on the high E string. Then all on the B string, up and down. (Up an octave plus a couple notes, then down.) Do this on the other four strings. Then do this in all 12 keys.

    He told me it took him a month to learn this and he was already a pro at the time and had played Carnegie Hall. It's not the work of a day, or a week. But it is the key to linking the ear and hand.

    That's just the first part of the assignment.

    Phew!

    Not sure how long that will take me but it will do me good, I know. I'm far enough along to realize that I need to do this and (I hope) I'm actually willing to do it, day in and day out, week in and week out. (It's not an all-day thing but an everyday thing, like learning inversions.)

    So rest assured, I'm working on Frank Vignola material!

    Going over some etudes from "Jamming the Blues" to use in another study group. Trying to focus more on rhythmic phrasing. That's a strength of Frank's. I love those singing, swinging lines. (In this sense, I'm more of a swing guy than a bebop guy, though Charlie Parker was a master at playing phrases with great rhythms.)

    So I haven't dropped out. I hope more people join this parade. I think Frank's etudes are solid and helpful.
    I am planning on having a lesson with Frank within the next week or so.

    I will post an update on my lesson.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #387

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    Hey, guys,
    Wanted to update you on my Private Lesson with Frank Vignola via True Fire.

    First, how the lessons work. You pick a teacher and pay for the lesson. You send (via TF) the teacher some background info (years playing, 3 favorite players, styles of interest, and, as clearly as possible, a description of what you hope to get from the lesson.) Plus a video.The video I sent Frank was me playing Etude #9.

    Second, the teacher responds. Frank's response was via video with several attachments.

    Third, I will respond playing the lesson and asking any question I still have.
    Fourth, the teacher will respond and that will technically end the lesson.

    So, I sent etude # 9. (I picked that becuase it was handy but also because I recorded it about a month ago and had no idea he would ever see it. It was 'natural' as such a demo could be.) He thought it sounded good and noted that I could hear the lines correctly because I was playing them correctly.

    Then he gave me the first part of my assignment for this lesson:

    Play a C major only on the high E string. Then all on the B string, up and down. (Up an octave plus a couple notes, then down.) Do this on the other four strings. Then do this in all 12 keys.

    He told me it took him a month to learn this and he was already a pro at the time and had played Carnegie Hall. It's not the work of a day, or a week. But it is the key to linking the ear and hand.

    That's just the first part of the assignment.

    Phew

    Not sure how long that will take me but it will do me good, I know. I'm far enough along to realize that I need to do this and (I hope) I'm actually willing to do it, day in and day out, week in and week out. (It's not an all-day thing but an everyday thing, like learning inversions.)

    So rest assured, I'm working on Frank Vignola material. Going over some etudes from "Jamming the Blues" to use in another study group. Trying to focus more on rhythmic phrasing. That's  a strength of Frank's. I love those singing, swinging lines. (In this sense, I'm more of a swing guy than a bebop guy, though Charlie Parker was a master at playing phrases with great rhythms.)

    So I haven't dropped out. I hope more people join this parade. I think Frank's etudes are solid and helpful.

  14. #388

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Hey, guys,
    Wanted to update you on my Private Lesson with Frank Vignola via True Fire.

    First, how the lessons work. You pick a teacher and pay for the lesson. You send (via TF) the teacher some background info (years playing, 3 favorite players, styles of interest, and, as clearly as possible, a description of what you hope to get from the lesson.) Plus a video.The video I sent Frank was me playing Etude #9.

    Second, the teacher responds. Frank's response was via video with several attachments.

    Third, I will respond playing the lesson and asking any question I still have.
    Fourth, the teacher will respond and that will technically end the lesson.

    So, I sent etude # 9. (I picked that becuase it was handy but also because I recorded it about a month ago and had no idea he would ever see it. It was 'natural' as such a demo could be.) He thought it sounded good and noted that I could hear the lines correctly because I was playing them correctly.

    Then he gave me the first part of my assignment for this lesson:

    Play a C major only on the high E string. Then all on the B string, up and down. (Up an octave plus a couple notes, then down.) Do this on the other four strings. Then do this in all 12 keys.

    He told me it took him a month to learn this and he was already a pro at the time and had played Carnegie Hall. It's not the work of a day, or a week. But it is the key to linking the ear and hand.

    That's just the first part of the assignment.

    Phew

    Not sure how long that will take me but it will do me good, I know. I'm far enough along to realize that I need to do this and (I hope) I'm actually willing to do it, day in and day out, week in and week out. (It's not an all-day thing but an everyday thing, like learning inversions.)

    So rest assured, I'm working on Frank Vignola material. Going over some etudes from "Jamming the Blues" to use in another study group. Trying to focus more on rhythmic phrasing. That's a strength of Frank's. I love those singing, swinging lines. (In this sense, I'm more of a swing guy than a bebop guy, though Charlie Parker was a master at playing phrases with great rhythms.)

    So I haven't dropped out. I hope more people join this parade. I think Frank's etudes are solid and helpful.
    Hi Mark,
    A simple solution for finding a major scale on any string starting on any fret is to use the fingering 124,124,134. This works across any three adjacent strings or on one string consecutively. Note that you start on the 7th degree of the scale. For more information and detail go to universalguitarprogram.com. That URL will open a page on my website where you will find additional material. I have used this method with my students for many years. Extremely successful. Let me know what you think.

    Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

  15. #389

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    Did you try it?
    Quote Originally Posted by rochroch
    Hi Mark,
    A simple solution for finding a major scale on any string starting on any fret is to use the fingering 124,124,134. This works across any three adjacent strings or on one string consecutively. Note that you start on the 7th degree of the scale. For more information and detail go to universalguitarprogram.com. That URL will open a page on my website where you will find additional material. I have used this method with my students for many years. Extremely successful. Let me know what you think.

    Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk
    Hi Mark, Did you try it?

    Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

  16. #390

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    Quote Originally Posted by rochroch
    Did you try it?Hi Mark, Did you try it?

    I looked at that. It all fits with what Jimmy Bruno calls the "five fingerings" and what Joe Pass (and others) call "CAGED." Jimmy even starts on the 7 for the fingering most people call "Ionian".

  17. #391

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Hey, guys,
    Wanted to update you on my Private Lesson with Frank Vignola via True Fire.
    First, how the lessons work. You pick a teacher and pay for the lesson. You send (via TF) the teacher some background info (years playing, 3 favorite players, styles of interest, and, as clearly as possible, a description of what you hope to get from the lesson.) Plus a video.
    The video I sent Frank was me playing Etude #9.
    He thought it sounded good and noted that I could hear the lines correctly because I was playing them correctly.
    Then he gave me the first part of my assignment for this lesson:
    Play a C major only on the high E string. Then all on the B string, up and down. (Up an octave plus a couple notes, then down.) Do this on the other four strings. Then do this in all 12 keys.

    He told me it took him a month to learn this and he was already a pro at the time and had played Carnegie Hall. It's not the work of a day, or a week. But it is the key to linking the ear and hand.

    That's just the first part of the assignment.

    Phew!

    Not sure how long that will take me but it will do me good, I know. I'm far enough along to realize that I need to do this and (I hope) I'm actually willing to do it, day in and day out, week in and week out. (It's not an all-day thing but an everyday thing, like learning inversions.)

    So rest assured, I'm working on Frank Vignola material!

    Going over some etudes from "Jamming the Blues" to use in another study group. Trying to focus more on rhythmic phrasing. That's a strength of Frank's. I love those singing, swinging lines. (In this sense, I'm more of a swing guy than a bebop guy, though Charlie Parker was a master at playing phrases with great rhythms.)

    So I haven't dropped out. I hope more people join this parade. I think Frank's etudes are solid and helpful.
    Interesting that Jimmy's fingerings start on the 7th, too. I saw JB vid years ago. But I recall his starts on the pinky and uses 4 adjacent strings --- mine 3 adjacent strings. Also It's crucial that they're only one octave, other methods go two (or more) octaves. uses a kind of origami approach to duplicate the same fingerings in various octaves. I love how they be the same fingerings on adjacent strings as well as consecutively on one string! That's what caught my eye about your post. Thanks for the feedback.

    Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

  18. #392

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    Quote Originally Posted by rochroch
    Interesting that Jimmy's fingerings start on the 7th, too. I saw JB vid years ago. But I recall his starts on the pinky and uses 4 adjacent strings --- mine 3 adjacent strings. ...
    To clarify, Jimmy teaches 5 fingerings, only one of which starts on the 7th. (That might have been different in his older video, which I've not seen, but this has been his teaching for at least the past 10 years that I've studied with him.)

  19. #393

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasaco
    To clarify, Jimmy teaches 5 fingerings, only one of which starts on the 7th. (That might have been different in his older video, which I've not seen, but this has been his teaching for at least the past 10 years that I've studied with him.)

    Jim, you are right about that. What Rocco is talking about (Universal Guitar Program) is easily seen in this pdf from his site
    http://nebula.wsimg.com/eee66aec4eba...&alloworigin=1

    It's the first octave of the five fingerings Jimmy uses. (And Joe Pass used, and so many others have too.)
    There's nothing wrong with it. I'm already familiar with it. You are too.

  20. #394
    Take 1

    Take 2

    Not sure who is still in the room, but I feel like we are in the home stretch.

  21. #395

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A
    Take 1

    Take 2

    Not sure who is still in the room, but I feel like we are in the home stretch.
    Nice! That's a good etude. I've been working on my technique lately and using some of Frank's daily exercises. I'm still around! ;o)

  22. #396
    Here are a couple of Takes of Frank Vignola's RC#11

    Take 1


    Take 2

    Feel Free to comment

  23. #397

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A
    Here are a couple of Takes of Frank Vignola's RC#11

    Take 1


    Take 2

    Feel Free to comment
    Nice going!
    I'm still in the room, though I haven't been playing many of these etudes lately. Mainly just one, from memory, 18, I think. (It's in G.) I like that one a lot.

  24. #398
    To all that have not left the Room, I present to you RC #12

    Frank Vignola RC#12

    Comments Welcomed !!

  25. #399

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A
    To all that have not left the Room, I present to you RC #12

    Frank Vignola RC#12

    Comments Welcomed !!
    Nice! I don't think I've worked on that one at all. Good lines in there. Frank's stuff holds up well.
    I haven't been working with this material lately but have been meaning to get back into it---at least into the ones I really like and want to master.

    Thanks for keeping things going!

  26. #400

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A
    To all that have not left the Room, I present to you RC #12

    Frank Vignola RC#12

    Comments Welcomed !!
    Good job - guess I should revisit RCs a bit from time to time. Thanks for posting!