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  1. #1

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    helped me to do it as much as anything

    hope its of some interest to some of you

    comments welcome (goes without saying?)


    Last edited by Groyniad; 12-31-2016 at 02:50 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    its the flippin' hat - i knew i shouldn't have worn it...

  4. #3

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    I just started working from Fewell's "melodic approach" book a couple of days ago, so anything related to that is helpful and most welcome. Thank you for posting such a clear and detailed explanation of how you apply his teaching to your playing.

  5. #4

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    I watched your video and realise I do this all the time.

  6. #5

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    what? bring air to your lines by using triads that come from the relative minor etc. etc.?

    or is it that you wear hats from rugged central asia a lot?
    Last edited by Groyniad; 12-15-2016 at 05:26 AM.

  7. #6

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    Love the 'bop' phrasing of the examples and the close scrutiny of the fine grain in the minute from 22:30 to 23:30. Serious commitment and very inspiring to see and hear.

    Although the sounds are familiar, I had to pause and examine the section between 4:00 and 4:50 - because I'm used to thinking of those sounds as extensions. For example, @4:02 I heard an Emi9 sound - but the explanation of the line in terms of triads (built on degrees 1, b3, 5 and b7 of the relative minor, right?) seems a much better idea. A deceptively simple one, too - because the triads combine to make complex lines. 'Small is beautiful' - especially where thinking is concerned.

    Moreover, as we have the advantage of polyphony, this thinking can be applied to playing thirds (and in any style).

    Great stuff - thanks!
    Last edited by destinytot; 12-15-2016 at 08:53 AM. Reason: typo

  8. #7

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    thanks a lot man

    yes - the triads are built on 1 b3 5 and b7 of the minor sound

    and you use these sounds to play over 1 - and they extend that 1 sound for you - so you don' have to think in terms of lots of different extensions at all

    and the little triads are quite easy to turn into little phrases - which you can repeat using one or two of the other triads built on other degrees of the minor sound - and this opens up the sound - generates harmonic structure WITHIN a sound

    and you use the same minor sound (at a different absolute pitch obviously) for your 2 sound

    and that covers your straight 5 sound as well (because you just use all the sounds you've unpacked out of 2 to get the straight dominant sound)

    and then you have a melodic minor sound (on #5 and 4 of the home sound) and you unpack that with triads in the same way - and it gives you an awful lot of altered dominant sounds

    and....

    thanks again man

  9. #8

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    I just think of the triads as being within the scale. So you practice your dominant scales in thirds, triads, seventh chords, ninth chords etc. Triads are handy as they are three notes and easily sweepable as you say.

    1 3 5 2 4 6 3 5 7 etc

    And variations thereon.

    Check out pivot sevenths, for example:

    C E G B becomes C' E G B (the C goes up an octave.)

    You can then use this stuff anyway you want.

  10. #9

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    A bit about stacked triads from Carol Kaye, from whom I learned this stuff.

    >>>>>STACKED TRIADS. You hear all the greats playing these on Jazz records since the creative 1950s. FYI, Joe Pass also mentioned how practicing these triads also changed his playing in the 1960s....when he quickly mentioned them (in 1 of 2 times we talked music while working Jazz concerts together 1971-73)....this is how I was explaining (in 2nd lesson) about these to one Skype student via email today:
    >>>>>>>Say the name of the CHORD (the triad is a CHORD) out-loud as you practice them going across the neck, i.e.:
    G7 stacking the triads is: G Bmb5 Dm (remember, Dm-G7 chords are always paired to use for either), F Am C Em G notice how, after Bmb5 it's minor-major-minor-major etc....
    Coltrane etal. all took notice of this and started their stacking of triads from Dm....and on the upper level, ignored the Bmb5 but made it Bm, then changed Dm to D (major) then it was Fm A Cm etc. essentially adding the A chord on top of the G chord, ...THAT as well as back-cycling the m7ths is what they "modal"....but no-one knows all this, and don't know how to teach it at all......nor how to use it.....don't attempt that until you learn all the jazz patterns and can function chordally...takes a few mos...but it's all easy when you train your ears-fingers to automatically create...and fun. See my free playing Tips Pages here for more on this....it's exciting, understandable, and even fun to practice as you get going...
    but again, don't get ahead of yourself with "intelligent understanding"...that STOPS all training....knowing it by the "mind" is not only wrong but also dangerous stuff....stops everyone from really learning...DO NOT ANALYZE...
    the musicians creating the real Jazz improv in the 1950s never did that at all....they heard it, they played it. But yes, takes some prep studying and practicing (without THINKING) and you are functioning then. I played with them (and the sax players from NYC also) in LA's fine Jazz time of over 100 Jazz clubs in the late 1950s....that's how they did it, and that's how I teach.<<<<<<<

    You can do this from C major (the I chord) or Dm (the ii chord) or any other chord in the key, but it's best to start with the V or ii or I to get the feel / sound of how the triads move/. And they're easy to play: the second two notes of the first triad become the first and second notes of the next one. Lather, rinse, repeat.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  11. #10

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    i don't think of them as within 'the scale' - because its very important to me to distinguish between what i increasingly think of as the 2 basic sounds in 'the key'.

    so i think of triads built off e.g VI min and triads built off e.g II min - and then keeping those two sounds separate i unpack both by building the triads only off the main voices in those two sounds (so 1,3,5 and 7).

    so i'm making two sounds basic - not one scale. and i think that all the sounds in the scale or key can be boiled down into one or other of those two fundamental ones. (and there are diminished or dom sounds used to pass or slip between them too).

    i want to keep them separate so i get to make them interact in interesting ways and to hear better the different functions they can perform.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Groyniad View Post
    i don't think of them as within 'the scale' - because its very important to me to distinguish between what i increasingly think of as the 2 basic sounds in 'the key'.

    so i think of triads built off e.g VI min and triads built off e.g II min - and then keeping those two sounds separate i unpack both by building the triads only off the main voices in those two sounds (so 1,3,5 and 7).

    so i'm making two sounds basic - not one scale. and i think that all the sounds in the scale or key can be boiled down into one or other of those two fundamental ones. (and there are diminished or dom sounds used to pass or slip between them too).

    i want to keep them separate so i get to make them interact in interesting ways and to hear better the different functions they can perform.
    Keep doing what you're doing I say....

    I think it's all the same stuff viewed differently.

  13. #12

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    you're right - that's what it is

    the barry harris stuff and the garrison fewell stuff have come together for me in a productive way i think.

    great fun

  14. #13

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    Ah, what a shame... another potentially great hat video sidetracked by triad talk.

    Seriously though, good stuff. I've been digging into the Fewell stuff for a few months and it seems to be a brilliant way to organise things. I really like this minor conversion stuff -- minor and extensions built on the relative of the major, the ii of the V, the iii of the m7b5, etc.

    I haven't gotten to where he gets into the altered dom sounds yet (I assume he does at some point), so your video is pretty cool. I'm a bit confused about where you're getting these triads, though. I understand that you can get the altered sounds via the iv6 or the m6 built a semitone up from the dominant root (which is the same as a dom9 tritone sub), but how does this fit into Fewell's triad system? Or are you just adding m6 arpeggios to the system? (i.e., swapping the b7 for a 6 in the minor extensions)
    Last edited by Jehu; 12-15-2016 at 08:31 PM.
    Jay

    'boobadoobadoobaooababop!'

  15. #14

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    In his 1999 Hal Leonard instructional DVD, Larry Carlton explains and demonstrates his use of triads. I got it as an early Christmas present to myself, since no one who has me on their list knows what a triad is.

    Amazon.com: Larry Carlton DVD: Larry Carlton: Movies & TV

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by snailspace View Post
    In his 1999 Hal Leonard instructional DVD, Larry Carlton explains and demonstrates his use of triads.
    I had no idea Larry was so flexible.

    triads after garrison fewell-tt1465499-jpg
    Jay

    'boobadoobadoobaooababop!'

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu View Post
    I had no idea Larry was so flexible.

    triads after garrison fewell-tt1465499-jpg
    If you think he's flexible in this, you should take a gander at his yoga video.

  18. #17

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    i'm not sure where i got the triads using the melodic minor sound from - maybe it was my idea - i really don't know. they sound fantastic though - ever since i got into them i can't get away from them. very satisfying sounds (very well named too - they sure are 'melodic'.)

    in a way the biggest thing about it all is that if you're thinking about like one note - a ninth or a sharp five - and you're thinking 'i must use these to bring colour and interest to things' - then you're not in a very good position

    if the ninth and the #5 is 'embedded' in a triad - then you're in great shape because its easy to come up with lots of nice sounds using the triad (add a bit before and after the triad and you've got a real phrase).

    ----------

    what i did not emphasize in this vid. which i might in another one - is that once you've got your nice sounding triad based phrases that unpack your sounds for you - then its all about WHEN you play them - how you PLACE them in the bar. they are VERY flexible - you can put them all over the place - and this generates almost all the interest in your line.

  19. #18

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    here's another triad based idea for the start of ornithology - much shorter this time

    but it illustrates the way the triads work quite nicely i hope.


  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Groyniad View Post
    i'm not sure where i got the triads using the melodic minor sound from - maybe it was my idea - i really don't know. they sound fantastic though - ever since i got into them i can't get away from them. very satisfying sounds (very well named too - they sure are 'melodic'.)
    I guess what I'm wondering is whether you are actually using triads (/stacked triads in the Fewell sense) to access the MM sound -- and if the answer is yes, then what are these triads?

    Or are you just visualising those two m6 arpeggios, based on the E and A strings, and playing around those?

    Anyway, great vids, hope to see more.
    Jay

    'boobadoobadoobaooababop!'

  21. #20

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    i am using triads

    using the notes of the mm sound and starting from 1,3,5 and 7...

    very pretty sounds

  22. #21

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    So close... almost nailed a haiku.

    Thanks, I will play with it.
    Jay

    'boobadoobadoobaooababop!'

  23. #22

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    Any chance of an analysis of some off the shelf bebop material - a head say?

  24. #23

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    that's the best question anyone has asked me for ages...

    i'll get to it

  25. #24

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    just to be going on with - dig these triad triplets et. al.

    if this right hand is not the flippin king of right hands i don't know which right hand is the kind of right hands

    if you know what i mean

    - i hope i get good enough to hear this stuff one day - i love how direct it is. but (bird excepted) - this is as good as it gets i think.

    what is? - bill evans solo on 'you and the night and the music' (in particular what he plays with his right hand)



    Last edited by Groyniad; 12-18-2016 at 02:04 PM.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu View Post
    Ah, what a shame... another potentially great hat video sidetracked by triad talk.

    Seriously though, good stuff. I've been digging into the Fewell stuff for a few months and it seems to be a brilliant way to organise things. I really like this minor conversion stuff -- minor and extensions built on the relative of the major, the ii of the V, the iii of the m7b5, etc.

    I haven't gotten to where he gets into the altered dom sounds yet (I assume he does at some point), so your video is pretty cool. I'm a bit confused about where you're getting these triads, though. I understand that you can get the altered sounds via the iv6 or the m6 built a semitone up from the dominant root (which is the same as a dom9 tritone sub), but how does this fit into Fewell's triad system? Or are you just adding m6 arpeggios to the system? (i.e., swapping the b7 for a 6 in the minor extensions)

    i'm adding a min 6 sound yes - but it swaps the #7 for the b7 (or you could put it like that). and this sound just crops up in two basic places in the home key (on #5 and on 4). and thats where the altered dominant sounds come from (or some of them).

    the other important place the min 6 with #7 turns up is on the fifth of the dom. chord (so on 2 of the home chord) - when it does it gives you the straight dom 7 with a flatted fifth sound (which is an important sound in its own right).

    so three important parts of the home sound that the melodic minor sound lives - three ways to find altered dominant sounds within the key.

    and i just build triads off 1, 3, 5, and 7 of this sound (b3 and #7 if you like). this gives you many many ways to hear the altered sounds

  27. #26

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    and as long as you voice the triads on adjacent strings - there's a vital vital link between all this melodic/harmonic detail and fundamental physical technique on the instrument

    which is nice

  28. #27

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    And the prize for arsey pendantic comment of the day goes to - me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Groyniad View Post
    i'm adding a min 6 sound yes - but it swaps the #7 for the b7 (or you could put it like that). and this sound just crops up in two basic places in the home key (on #5 and on 4). and thats where the altered dominant sounds come from (or some of them).
    I know what you mean, but if we are to be consistent we are either talking about the prevailing key (D harmonic minor in have the note C# or a #7 for example while Eb harmonic minor would an E or a natural 7.) This is a pain in the bum for transposition though.

    So, I use (and I think most people do?) a comparison with the major scale for scale construction, so it's natural 7 and natural 6 for a melodic minor, for instance. Is this the general understanding?

    Just about consistency.

    the other important place the min 6 with #7 turns up is on the fifth of the dom. chord (so on 2 of the home chord) - when it does it gives you the straight dom 7 with a flatted fifth sound (which is an important sound in its own right).
    Raised 11th is not a flat 5th.

    Again, this stuff is important to me. It also true that I have no friends.

    so three important parts of the home sound that the melodic minor sound lives - three ways to find altered dominant sounds within the key.

    and i just build triads off 1, 3, 5, and 7 of this sound (b3 and #7 if you like). this gives you many many ways to hear the altered sounds
    Anyway that's all good shit.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Groyniad View Post
    helped me to do it as much as anything

    hope its of some interest to some of you

    comments welcome (goes without saying?)


    Yeah man... great thread, and GREAT video and playing... sounds awesome! I know about Garrison, but I haven't actually dipped into his thing yet. But is there anything that triads can't do? Good lord I love these little dudes.

    My whole thing these days is super similar to this, but with a few differences. I don't generate the triads in the same fashion you seem to be. For the most part we're stumbling onto the same ones, but I also enjoy exploring dim/aug/sus/b5 triads as well, as they each add their own flair. I tend to prefer major, minor, and sus2/4 triads as they have the most bell like, open, airy (to steal your adjective) quality to them. But when dealing with dom7 chords, I also love throwing in diminished and augmented triads as they add such a great contrast. Do these exist in the Fewell way of thinking? Again, I'm only peripherally aware of his method... so I'm curious if there's an approach to those sounds. Even without them, there's SO many options just with major and minor, it's sort of astounding.

    The other difference is I like to breathe even a little more air into these by letting each one exist as a complete, stand-alone entity. Rather than thinking of them as stacked and referring to them in terms of dimensions (which totally makes sense, and you can hear them getting more and more colorful)... I think of each of them as a complete unit on their own, and I label them with a chord name. So if I look at my triad options over a basic E minor tonality, I might get...

    *E minor triad - Emin (Such a simple sound... I actually actively avoid the 7 and use this mostly as a minor i chord)
    *G Major triad - Emin7
    *B minor triad - Emin9
    *D Major triad - E-11(9)

    The fascinating thing I found by just sitting and exploring what each of these sounds like separately is that each one behaves differently. ((Christian, this is what I was trying to explain in that other thread... maybe I'll be able to express this idea more clearly here))

    What ends up happening is the triad itself becomes (what I refer to as) 'tonicized'. While playing melodically within any of these 4 tonal worlds, the notes of the triad actually starts to behave like 'DO', 'MI' (or 'me), and 'SO'... effectively changing the entire tension and resolution points within the arch of the melody. Set aside the idea of playing changes for a second and just look at the tonal/modal implications of that. That means we can intentionally create 4 different root notes against an E chord, melodically speaking. Just with these triads... not to mention all the other options (Amaj, F#min, F#Maj, Gmin, etc). We can develop melodies that integrate the more colorful notes directly into the most stable resolution points, if we want to. Think about what that would offer us when playing a ballad and needed to say more with fewer notes. It's kind of wild. And we can take the boring old 'E' root note -- that we so often want to learn to get away from -- and make it sound and function like something else entirely... in the 4 options listed above the E note can be made to function like 'Do', 'La', 'Fa', and 'Te'.

    Once I run through all of that, then I would step up to your level groyniad, and start to combine them in different ways, or add chromaticism and runs, or mix and match, or move through changes with them. And I absolutely LOVE your point about shooting the arrow only when it's not already in the target. Not to sound too much like Miles here, but you're right. The notes we avoid playing are just as important as the notes we do play. If we're trying to target a certain sound to move towards, and we give up those notes before we get there, it's sort of like someone telling us how a movie is going to end... spoiler alert. Structuring lines and melodies and playing through changes with this stuff allows us to have way more options for targeting. Not only can we avoid giving away the plot, but we can also 'tonicize' any notes we want within the line to create alternate and unexpected twists and endings in our lines.

    Sounds great man, and love the hat! Looking forward to hearing more

  30. #29

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    fascinating stuff jordan - and i'm delighted you enjoyed the 'sharing' video. thanks.

    i'm very conscious of being at a very early stage with this way of hearing things and setting them out on the guitar. its a joy to explore - i feel like the sounds i've been after for ages are now just right there - and that's great.

    i'm still working on seeing how far a natural minor type sound and a melodic minor type sound can get me - so that's pretty conservative of me really.

    i just can't wait to get shrunk and stretched triads in there too (dim and aug etc.) - but i can hardly play the one's i'm finding. just starting to have the right hand technique that's required to get these things out.

    and the stuff about temporary 'tonicization' is seriously interesting - integrating the more colourful notes into the most stable resolution points....i'll be ready for that one day soon i hope....

    thanks again - i'll do another vid. along similar lines for the thread.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    And the prize for arsey pendantic comment of the day goes to - me.



    I know what you mean, but if we are to be consistent we are either talking about the prevailing key (D harmonic minor in have the note C# or a #7 for example while Eb harmonic minor would an E or a natural 7.) This is a pain in the bum for transposition though.

    So, I use (and I think most people do?) a comparison with the major scale for scale construction, so it's natural 7 and natural 6 for a melodic minor, for instance. Is this the general understanding?

    Just about consistency.



    Raised 11th is not a flat 5th.

    Again, this stuff is important to me. It also true that I have no friends.




    Anyway that's all good shit.

    as an ex-academic i'm actually trying quite hard to come across all casual about all the technical things - i have to positively subvert my natural tendency to go systematic on everything and sort out all important terminological tickles.

    but i totally get what you're saying - and of course - you're right.

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Groyniad View Post
    as an ex-academic i'm actually trying quite hard to come across all casual about all the technical things - i have to positively subvert my natural tendency to go systematic on everything and sort out all important terminological tickles.

    but i totally get what you're saying - and of course - you're right.
    Haha...I get you :-)

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Groyniad View Post
    fascinating stuff jordan - and i'm delighted you enjoyed the 'sharing' video. thanks.

    i'm very conscious of being at a very early stage with this way of hearing things and setting them out on the guitar. its a joy to explore - i feel like the sounds i've been after for ages are now just right there - and that's great.

    i'm still working on seeing how far a natural minor type sound and a melodic minor type sound can get me - so that's pretty conservative of me really.

    i just can't wait to get shrunk and stretched triads in there too (dim and aug etc.) - but i can hardly play the one's i'm finding. just starting to have the right hand technique that's required to get these things out.

    and the stuff about temporary 'tonicization' is seriously interesting - integrating the more colourful notes into the most stable resolution points....i'll be ready for that one day soon i hope....

    thanks again - i'll do another vid. along similar lines for the thread.
    Word, looking forward to checking it out. And perhaps I'll try and film something short to contribute too. The 'tonicization' might sound super complex and advanced, but I find that once the aural application is heard, it's actually very natural and simple. It's just the coming to intellectual terms with how to wield and manipulate all of it that things require some significant attention to detail and pre-planning. But with the goal being to maintain that level of simplicity and naturalness and simply expand it to a more complete picture.

    I suppose I sort of think about it like a painter getting to know their colors more deeply. Like Picasso going through his blue period and just seeing how far he can take something as simple as the color blue. And what gorgeous work he discovered!

  34. #33

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    @Jordan....

    It's funny how we learn to add things to a minor chord, and yet there is nothing that sounds like a minor triad. Everything you add to it changes the mood.

    I suppose that's true of all chords. Respect the triad! ;-)

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    @Jordan....

    It's funny how we learn to add things to a minor chord, and yet there is nothing that sounds like a minor triad. Everything you add to it changes the mood.

    I suppose that's true of all chords. Respect the triad! ;-)
    Yes! Totally!

  36. #35

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    Thanks for the vid, and following discussion. I had never heard of Garrison Fewell, but after a few listenings think I am a believer.

  37. #36

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    Garrison Fewell also had a youtube channel where he discussed these ideas for those interested.

    gflat9&#39;s channel
    - YouTube

  38. #37

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    I have both Garrison's books but never really dug into them that much. I understand the concepts he is using but I don't feel they outline the chords that well. Am I missing something?

    For example, in a I-vi-ii-V-I would you use the same triads build from the relative minor?

    His approach, to me, seems to lend a key centred feel to the playing instead of outlining the actual chords. Of course, if you are outlining the chords with the chord tones of that chord, then doesn't that defeat the purpose of his system?
    Last edited by bingefeller; 12-24-2016 at 06:32 AM.

  39. #38

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    Hi Christian,

    You've got a friend...I'm equally pedantic about the difference between the #11 and b5. I have a classically trained mate who often writes the b5 as a #4 which he refers to as 'augmented fourth' - he was at the Royal Academy - you'd like him

    But Groyniad is doing great work here...

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by bingefeller View Post
    I have both Garrison's books but never really dug into them that much. I understand the concepts he is using but I don't feel they outline the chords that well. Am I missing something?

    For example, in a I-vi-ii-V-I would you use the same triads build from the relative minor?

    His approach, to me, seems to lend a key centred feel to the playing instead of outlining the actual chords. Of course, if you are outlining the chords with the chord tones of that chord, then doesn't that defeat the purpose of his system?

    just back from christmas trip....

    good question - its very important to get clear about this issue

    I and vi are the same sound (I and VI ain't - and that's important - i would get the VI sound by using a melodic minor sound a half step above its root)

    II is the same as V - one of the great great features of this approach is that one can get a whole lot of juice out of a straight V sound (no alterations) by using the II sound - and the best way to do that is to unpack the II sound in the way discussed in the vid. I got further with the beautiful straight dominant sound when i discovered this approach than i had in 20 years of approaching it head-on.

    so in the progression you identify there are two minor-type sounds (with all their triadic extenders) that are in play not one. other colours will be captured by the use of melodic minor sounds (with their triadic extenders) to capture alterations in the VI sound and in the V sound.

    in general the whole point is to unpack harmonic detail WITHIN a sound or chord NOT between them. so its a way of getting more out of the 2 sounds that make up the I vi ii V progression - not a way of reducing the number of sounds involved to 1.

  41. #40

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    here's a follow up video in which i talk a bit and then play a bit. i wanted to show some of the ideas discussed actually being used in some playing. hope this is still useful stuff. really enjoying the 'triad' theme here - though this stuff is very elementary in comparison with other recent threads.



  42. #41

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    Late to game as always, but thanks for the videos. I bought the Fewell books because of your posts and have just started working on the first one. I have tried a number of method books over the years but this is the first time I really feel I can relate to what the author is talking about. His focus on triads and extensions is just more in keeping with with my hearing of tonal relationships. Plus I really like his focus on articulation. I have put in a good amount of time on theory in the last number of years which I think allows me to better understand where he is going. So it may well be an instance of the right approach at the right time. And I hope proper application of effort on my part will better allow me appreciate yours. Again, thanks for the work.

  43. #42

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    Hi.
    Is anybody working on it? Im askinig because this Garrison Fewell approach developed me a lot. And Im looking for people with whom i can share opinion and experience.
    Cheers Tomash

  44. #43

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    Hi and welcome! Garrison Fewell's approch has got me started on jazz guitar. I'M still going back to his books and revisit the material - there's still a lot to discover there.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A long journey starts with the first step...and although I have long forgotten about my destination I'm still enjoying the journey.

  45. #44

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    Yes, exacly. The book offers a lot of option.
    Its perfect for me because this is complete system of organising the fretboard and harmonic stuff.
    I love this kind of alterating that you have e.g. G7 and You can play #G minor triads. Great Sound.
    I also descovered that you can play minor triads start from #4 like tritone substitute.
    But I can understatnd how to unpack melodic minor sound. Or harmonic minor. Groyniad wrote about it but I didnt catch it. Any ideas?

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by freud View Post
    Yes, exacly. The book offers a lot of option.
    Its perfect for me because this is complete system of organising the fretboard and harmonic stuff.
    I love this kind of alterating that you have e.g. G7 and You can play #G minor triads. Great Sound.
    I also descovered that you can play minor triads start from #4 like tritone substitute.
    But I can understatnd how to unpack melodic minor sound. Or harmonic minor. Groyniad wrote about it but I didnt catch it. Any ideas?
    Been doing and teaching a lot of this recently.

    Abm triads are great, also Abm6

    Melodic minor happens when you put the 7 on it. But basically I see that as playing ‘minor lines’ on the Abm.

    Don’t overlook how these things relate to the chord tones of the target chord. Don’t play over chords only - learn to resolve

  47. #46

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    Hi Christianm. Thanks for Your reply.

    So if I understand You properly: If want to play melodic minor over Gm7 chord I should play Abm7 triad?

    And what do You mean?:
    "Don’t overlook how these things relate to the chord tones of the target chord. Don’t play over chords only - learn to resolve."
    Can You develope it?

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by freud View Post
    Hi Christianm. Thanks for Your reply.

    So if I understand You properly: If want to play melodic minor over Gm7 chord I should play Abm7 triad?

    And what do You mean?:
    "Don’t overlook how these things relate to the chord tones of the target chord. Don’t play over chords only - learn to resolve."
    Can You develope it?
    G7 not Gm7
    Abm6 not Abm7 (which is not a triad)

    Practice running Abm6 into C, C7 and Cm6.

  49. #48

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    Yes,of course. I meant G7 dominant.
    I use both Abm6 and Abm7 in the same time. One fingering. Standard + this one note extra. And Im chooseing better in current context.
    How do You deal with chords from Garrisons book?
    I find a lot of shapes. But there are some shortcomings. Do You thing this Garrisons system is good for learning chords? Its challenge for me.
    Cheers!

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by freud View Post
    Yes,of course. I meant G7 dominant.
    I use both Abm6 and Abm7 in the same time. One fingering. Standard + this one note extra. And Im chooseing better in current context.
    How do You deal with chords from Garrisons book?
    I find a lot of shapes. But there are some shortcomings. Do You thing this Garrisons system is good for learning chords? Its challenge for me.
    Cheers!
    I don’t know his work sorry. But he seems to be thinking along similar lines to me so I should check him out... good to have books I can recommend and work through with students

  51. #50

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    Thank You very much Christian for Your advices.
    Anybody have something else to add? Any interesting expierence with this method? Any Influence?