The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #751

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    Wait is this a typo? I thought it was a #4.
    Oh yeah sorry G. Been a long day.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #752

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    I think perhaps Barry is touching on it here. He is talking about the Cmin7 chord near the end of ATTYA, but I think the same principle applies. He is basically saying that the scale of the chord depends on what key it is operating in. Maj7 chords exist in 2 keys. So when it is Dbmaj7 in the key of Ab, you need to adjust the notes you play on it to fit the Ab maj scale (if I understand him correctly).


  4. #753

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    It’s Db with a #4.
    It's getting kind of similar to the Berklee method at this point. May be that's what I'll do. I'll raise my hand in the next Barry Harris workshop and ask "Mr. Harris, Mr. Harris, this is all based on the Berklee method isn't it? Am I right?".
    Then very shortly after the whole class will watch me get beaten up by a 93 year old.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 05-02-2019 at 05:30 PM.

  5. #754

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I think perhaps Barry is touching on it here. He is talking about the Cmin7 chord near the end of ATTYA, but I think the same principle applies. He is basically saying that the scale of the chord depends on what key it is operating in. Maj7 chords exist in 2 keys. So when it is Dbmaj7 in the key of Ab, you need to adjust the notes you play on it to fit the Ab maj scale (if I understand him correctly).

    Yes, sound about right. Though when deciding on chord extensions as in the video, it might be less obvious?
    Those pianists love to put them 9 notes on minor chords. And Barry won’t allow it on the 3 minor.

  6. #755

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    I’m always putting 9ths on minor chords. It doesn’t worry me on that Cm chord as much as it does Barry!

  7. #756

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    iiim isn’t really minor, it’s kind of an inversion of the I chord

  8. #757
    iiim is the "6th on the 5th"

  9. #758

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    It is true that iiim is the "6th on the 5th" and it's sort of an inversion of the I chord. But that's all from the chord tones point of view. The consideration in the video and in the question of what scale to play on IV major of ATTYA for scale exercises is not the chord tones, it's scalar passing tones.
    In the video for example, BH tells the student that Dmin in the key of Bb, when realized as a scale has a b6 in it (Bb) not 6. That's regardless of whether one considers Dmin an inversion of I chord or 6th on the 5th or just the iii chord.

  10. #759
    The scalar passing tones are the same for I as they are for iii, so it's not an irrelevant point.

  11. #760
    Here's an example: Barry's scale outline for a turnaround to ii is Cmaj up and down to the 3rd of A. So you play a measure and a half of Cmaj so you have the min 6th on the iii, otherwise if you play a measure of C then a measure of A6, you will have the major 6th on the iii

  12. #761

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758
    The scalar passing tones are the same for I as they are for iii, so it's not an irrelevant point.
    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758
    Here's an example: Barry's scale outline for a turnaround to ii is Cmaj up and down to the 3rd of A. So you play a measure and a half of Cmaj so you have the min 6th on the iii, otherwise if you play a measure of C then a measure of A6, you will have the major 6th on the iii
    That's true, playing I major scale over iii takes care of the passing notes and fits the function. So seeing it as an inversion of I conceptually works I guess. But I don't see how 6th on the 5th helps. Say in your example in the key of C, iii - VI7 - ii. I don't see how the observation that Emin7 is Gmaj6 resolves whether to play C or C# in the scalar outline of the chord.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 05-02-2019 at 05:23 PM.

  13. #762
    I didn't mean to imply it mattered for lines, it is just a little fun-fact to put what Christian said in BH terms

  14. #763

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758
    I didn't mean to imply it mattered for lines, it is just a little fun-fact to put what Christian said in BH terms
    I see.

  15. #764

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    Ooh that mediant ambiguity

  16. #765

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    I would get a lot out of folks posting chord progressions and outlines for tunes. Anybody else feel this way?

    I did this a while back for Confirmation.

  17. #766

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    All these talks about ATTYA had me listen to a recent live recording of Barry playing this tune. The first couple of bars on the bridge had me scratching my head quite a bit:

    Official Barry Harris Thread-screen-shot-2019-05-04-17-03-22-jpg

    So the first four bars of the bridge is a ii-V-I in G. Barry play a nice melody on the first two bars which sound alright, but looking at the notes, I don't know if I can explain what he's doing exactly. Doesn't sound like he's playing G, but doesn't sound like he's trying to sound "outside" either.
    To me it sound like he's outlining Gm over the Am7, and sound like Cm over the D7. Over the G it doesn't sound like he resolved just yet, and to me it sound like he continue to think D7, and resolve to the third of G only on the 4 beat that bar (the one that marked as 19). Anyone got a better idea? I'm not that convinced on the first two bars.

    The next bars is a ii-V-I in E (marked as 21). Here I can analyze it easily with Barrys approach. He start from the root of B7, then go down and put two half steps. Now he's on the b6 of B (the note G), and that's a common way for Barry to go into the tritone of B7 (i.e. F7). So from the G he goes down the Am7b5 chord which is outlining F7, and then resolve to the third of E.

    Over the C7 going to Fm (bar marked as 24) he plays his Eb7 to the third of C scale, but he lays the rhythm kinda off, with a nice delayed resolution. Love it when he do that.


    You can listen to the solo here (video start right on the bridge):


  18. #767

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    I think in the first two bars he is just playing off of the melody. He is continuing melody based ideas in the following bars as well. I could be wrong I'm just heading out the door so I didn't analyse. I'm just hearing it as he is following the melody.

  19. #768

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    Not smart enough about Barry Harris stuff to know how he thinks about anything.
    That aside, my observation:

    Viewing Am7 D7 as just D dominant, the A-Bb stuff is just 5 and b13 followed by 1 and b9 and a chromatic approach to F# of Gma7.

  20. #769

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    Quote Originally Posted by bako
    Not smart enough about Barry Harris stuff to know how he thinks about anything.
    That aside, my observation:

    Viewing Am7 D7 as just D dominant, the A-Bb stuff is just 5 and b13 followed by 1 and b9 and a chromatic approach to F# of Gma7.
    You are probably right. Just that my ears didn’t hear them as b13 and b9. But I never trusted my ears so why start now

  21. #770

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    Barry demonstrate All The Things You Are in a recent workshop:

    Emmet Cohen - Barry Harris plays and teaches All the... | Facebook

    (The video is public, you don’t need Facebook account to watch)

  22. #771

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    Maestro and me today.

    Such an inspiring man.

    Official Barry Harris Thread-image1-jpeg

  23. #772

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    What would you guys play for BH chord outlines over the first several bars of Old Devil Moon?

    FMaj7 - Cm7 for 6 bars F7sus F7 for 2 bars.


    Here is what I am thinking:
    F major up F7 up for 6 bars
    F7 up and down 2 bars

    Let me know where I am not correct. Thanks!

  24. #773

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    Why does he hate the word Lydian?

  25. #774

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    I thought he taught that scales sound better descending from the 7th rather than ascending from the root and therefore that was the drill.

  26. #775

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    Why does he hate the word Lydian?
    I think the church mode names of scales represents a teaching pedagogy that he disagrees with. He finds it too complex, academic and not the way how the original masters thought about their music.
    That is probably true for bebop, but not so much for more modern jazz. I reckon he dislikes jazz styles that came after bebop and hard bob as well, but I'm not sure.
    This is a bit surprising to me though. I think of jazz as a very progressive type of music where players constantly re-invent themselves, study their music and innovate. Had Charlie Parker lived longer, I doubt he would have still played pure bebop in the 60's and 70's. On the other hand Louis Armstrong thought Charlie Parker and his gang ruined jazz while Barry Harris thinks Miles Davis ruined jazz