Official Barry Harris Thread

[rlrhett]

Thanks Joe. Of course now I see on page 37 of Alan's book where he goes from the sub-dominant dim6 to the dim6- for the dominant sound. I was so focused on the voice leading in that example I missed the underlying harmonic motion. I had painted myself into a corner making assumptions. That's why this is such a great resource!

EDIT: I should add that I LOVE and constantly use the iiø to lead to the I^. Somehow I was missing that was the exact same move Alan was demonstrating.

[don_oz]

Im probably wrong here but hey that hasnt stopped me before

I learned a lot of Charle Parker tunes and solos before I stumbled onto Barry Harris. What he teaches in 5 4 3 2, half step rules, pivoting, etc, is exactly what I saw in Parkers solos. It is a very organized way to practice to get it in your playing and it certainly has worked for me.

Im not the biggest Bud fan, but when I hear him, I hear Birds language.

Bud and bird were different. Sure they spoke the same language, but when you hear sonny Rollins play, or fats Navarro or Dexter do you think they are just playing birds language?

Bud powell wasn't only doing incredible things with his right hand improvisation, but his left hand too and the combination of both.

Bud Powell played similar phrases to bird, but you forget that bud helped push Bebop too, he was one of the piano players that really helped take it to the next level.

If you really check out Bud's discography you'll hear how much of an influence classical music had in his playing too.

I think a lot of times people forget that Charlie Parker wasnt the only musician who was there when Bebop was being innovated.

[rintincop]

scale for
| E-7b5 | A7 |

A Bb C C# D E F G

[christianm77]

I am surveying the Harris books for his descending scale form for
| E-7b5 | A7 | (when ascending play C7 scale up and down but end on C#)

Thus, ascending is with: C D E F G A Bb, then back down with: A G F E D C#

Descending form just turns it upside down, BUT start higher on the D note (7th of E-7b5) so it lands on C# on beat 1.
Thus , descending would be:
D C Bb A G F E D | C# D E F G

Cool that works nicely

Btw have you noticed that if you take the one added note C dominant scale starting on the chord tone and raise the C to a C# you get the D minor sixth dim but starting on the dim tones - I also think of that scale as the Mel minor with an added note

That raised note, C#, also belongs to the F maj 6 dim

[David B]

Has anybody tried the Talk Jazz book by Roni Ben Hur?

Roni's book is excellent (make sure you get the Talk Jazz Guitar version which has suggested fingerings) and is one of the few jazz or guitar books that I've really dug into. I work on material from it in most practice sessions.

Here's the table of contents (there are a couple of sample pages and audio previews at Welcome To Roni Ben-Hur's Website )

Table of Contents


Chapter 1: Half Step Rules for Major and Dominant 7 Scales
• Major Scales With Added Half Steps
• Dominant 7 Scales With Added Half Steps


Chapter 2: The Arpeggios Study
• What Are Arpeggios and Why We Practice Them
• A Guide to Using the Arpeggios
• The Major, Minor, Diminished, Flatted 5 and Augmented Arpeggios Inverted
• In Two Octave


Chapter 3: Surrounding Notes for the Major And Minor Arpeggios
• How to Surround the Major and Minor Arpeggios
• The Major Arpeggios with Surrounding Notes
• The Minor Arpeggios with Surrounding Notes


Chapter 4: The Diminished
• The Diminished Chord and Diminished Runs
• The Diminished Chord with the Maj7
• All the Diminished Chords on Your Instrument


Chapter 5: Surrounding Notes for the Minor and Major 6 Chords
• How We Surround The Minor and Major 6 Chords
• Surrounding the Minor 6 Chord
• Surrounding the Major 6 Chord


Chapter 6: The Minor and Major 6 Diminished Scales
• What are the Minor and Major 6 Diminished Scales
• The Minor 6 Diminished Scale Exercise
• The Major 6 Diminished Scale Exercise


Chapter 7: The Dominant 7 Scale
• The role and character of the Dominant 7 Scale
• The Dominant 7 Scale Exercise


Chapter 8: The Augmented Chord and the Whole Tone Scale
• What is it and How is it Used
• The Whole Tone Scale Exercise


Chapter 9: I6/II7/V7 Turnaround Using Diminished Chords
• A Description of the Turnaround
• The Turnaround in Minor Keys
• The Turnaround in Major Keys


Chapter 10: The Major and Minor Arpeggios and Their Inversions
• The Major Arpeggios
• The Minor Arpeggios

[joe2758]

here’s a great example of how Barry’s harmonic ideas are NOT JUST 6dim scales. there’s so many other things

[don_oz]

Just came to me, and it might have been obvious to you guys already but it was a lightbulb moment for me. Barry emphasises playing with family. What I noticed was with the 6th diminished scales. If we take F, Ab, B and D, which we know are family. They are all connected by the same diminished chord in the scale.

[grahambop]

Yes I think that 'goes with the territory' since the 'family' are all a minor 3rd apart, so their related dim chords are also a min3 apart, hence they are all effectively the same dim chord. In fact this might be one of the given reasons why they are 'family' in the first place, can't exactly remember the details though. Alan's book has a section on all this.

[joe2758]

Osmond, here is a similar concept: the dominant chord shapes in relation to the diminished shape they stem from remain the same, but the actual chord will be different depending on the position.

So, on any dim chord play a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd inversion 7th chord with the same lowest note as the dim chord. Play a root position dom chord a half step below.

So whether I'm on a dim on the 2, 4, b6, or 7 the dominant shapes look the exact same. Then there's two 7 b5 chords possible from the dim, and those shapes are always the same too.

Do it on biii dim, it looks the exact same.

That was a light bulb for me

[rintincop]

for G-7b5 C7b9

[joe2758]

harmonically speaking, you know how it's come up a lot to ignore sub doms and just play dom? Here's a case of not

This is the first “A” section of “Star Eyes”. In measure 4, the melody lends itself well to harmonization with the A flat major 6 diminished scale. In measure 6, I use the C minor 6 diminished scale to harmonize the melody, but this time with a note borrowed from the Bdim7 chord – the B. In measure 8 the melody is voiced with B flat m6 and Adim7, while the bass line walks down the B flat minor 6 diminished scale and resolves to a C7 voiced with a D flat m6. (“Star Eyes,” by Don Raye and Gene DePaul. © 1942. (Renewed) Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Inc. © 1943. (Renewed EMI Feist Catalog Inc. All Rights Reserved. Used by permission)

from a free article you can see here: Evolutionary Voicings, Part 2 – Howard Rees' Jazz Workshops

[wzpgsr]

My There Will Never Be Another You chart: Ab - Db7 - Eb. Melody suggests that’s a Db7#11. My ear finds Ab major scale up, Bb dominant scale b7 down to 3rd of G. Is this what Barry would recommend?

[don_oz]

My There Will Never Be Another You chart: Ab - Db7 - Eb. Melody suggests that’s a Db7#11. My ear finds Ab major scale up, Bb dominant scale b7 down to 3rd of G. Is this what Barry would recommend?

Ab major up, Db7 up, Eb major up

[joe2758]

i bet Db7 down to the 3rd of Bb would sound cool...that's what i would do. small difference.

[rlrhett]

IV-bVII7-I? There must be a video or a section on one of these DVDs. Such a common move. Anyone have a reference?(not that I don’t think don and joe both offer perfectly fine answers.)


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[don_oz]

i bet Db7 down to the 3rd of Bb would sound cool...that's what i would do. small difference.

Then up the diminished from the third of Bb. I bet that would sound pretty!
It would be something like this: run Db7 down from the 7 to the third of Bb7 in 16th notes. You land on beat 3 of the bar. Then go up the dimished from the 5th of Bb7 as an 8th note triplets F, Ab, B and resolve to Bb and play 4. Anyone got a guitar to hand and fancy recording that phrase?

[joe2758]

IV-bVII7-I? There must be a video or a section on one of these DVDs. Such a common move. Anyone have a reference?(not that I don’t think don and joe both offer perfectly fine answers.)


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he talks about going from IV to iv in the workbooks, but not in a scale-outline

[joe2758]

Then up the diminished from the third of Bb. I bet that would sound pretty!
It would be something like this: run Db7 down from the 7 to the third of Bb7 in 16th notes. You land on beat 3 of the bar. Then go up the dimished from the 5th of Bb7 as an 8th note triplets F, Ab, B and resolve to Bb and play 4. Anyone got a guitar to hand and fancy recording that phrase?

c'mon man we wouldn't be here if we had a guitar handy! at least i hope not! if you do, go practice

[don_oz]

c'mon man we wouldn't be here if we had a guitar handy! at least i hope not! if you do, go practice

All I hear is excuses Joe

[joe2758]

i can air guitar it

[christianm77]

Scale outline for the last 8 of Green Dolphin Street, for a forthcoming video:

GDS correct.pdf

[don_oz]

Then up the diminished from the third of Bb. I bet that would sound pretty!
It would be something like this: run Db7 down from the 7 to the third of Bb7 in 16th notes. You land on beat 3 of the bar. Then go up the dimished from the 5th of Bb7 as an 8th note triplets F, Ab, B and resolve to Bb and play 4. Anyone got a guitar to hand and fancy recording that phrase?

Had the chance to play it, and I was wrong about it rhytmically. To make it fit you would have to start the 16th note run on the upbeat of beat 1 for you to land correctly.

[joe2758]

weird, sounded great on my air guitar

[don_oz]

weird, sounded great on my air guitar

I love those guitars for their airy sound

[Petimar]

A question for the Barry Harris players here.


When you improvise, what % of what you play is BH derived and what is other stuff?