-
Hi, I was wondering what Barry's approach to single note soloing is. I've noticed that very few people use the 6th Dim. for single note lines and was confused about what Barry's approach is.
Thanks in advance,
-Max
-
10-22-2018 01:51 PM
-
that's a pretty huge question; i'm not sure if anyone is going to want to take that on. I'd start by reading this thread, the "things I learned from Barry Harris" study group, and Things I learned from Barry Harris on youtube. Then maybe come back here with some specific questions? Who knows though, Christian might write an essay for ya.
Originally Posted by M2AX
-
Well I find it hard to "make the changes" without just playing boring arps. so I guess my question is how would I make the changes like Barry would, as I very much like his solos.
-Max
-
The 6th dim scale is the "bebop scale" 1 2 3 4 5 #5 6 7 ... many people use it melodically these days. I use it melodically at times. It's more balanced than a 7 note scale, melodically it comes out right (the chord tones stay aligned.) Although you will have to look hard to find it played melodically in the bebop era... David Baker based a whole series of books on it. George Shearing harmonized on it. Forgive me if this was discussed already.
-
I agree with joe, that's bit too much to cover in a forum post. You should probably do some research, and get back with specific questions. Here are some buzzwords you should look out for: Originally Posted by M2AX
-Barry Harris half step rules
-Barry's 4 related dominant
-Barry's important arpeggios
-Barry's 5-4-3-2
Your best way would be to get it directly from the source, and the closest to that is the Barry Harris workshop DVDs volume 1 and 2. That would be a dollar well spent.
Another great source as Joe point out, is the youtube channel called "Things I learned from Barry Harris". Those videos are well organised and you should spend the time to go over it, and spend the time practicing it.
There are tons of Barry's videos out there on youtube, though you'll have to do some digging, to find specific stuff you are looking for.
And lastly you can check out this essay I wrote, in an attempt to summarise Barry's devices used in his solos:
Ornithology - Barry Harris Transcription - Overview and Analysis.pdf - Google Drive
Lots of stuff to digest...but in a good way
Cheers.
-
Not tonight Josephine Originally Posted by joe2758
-
How does he make the changes without arpeggios? He target guide tones (chord tones). The video of Barry trying to explain how he solos over Giant Steps is a good one on how he makes the changes rather than doing arpeggios. He can't quite put it into words so he demonstrates a lot by playing over the changes. I noticed he plays mostly descending highly chromatic lines. He points out that he is always playing to the next chord. Meaning he is always sort of thinking two beats ahead. He makes those nice beboppy slippy-slidey descending line shapes to get to the next chord tone (guide tone). The shapes he does are mostly descending with a lot of chromaticism which are a result of lot a of melodic embellishment. In simple terms he plays that descending slippy slidey stuff to link chord tones. It sounds more like scale, it's not arpeggios. He is seeing and hearing shapes, much easier on piano, using his ear and intuition.
The common embellishments he might use are :
Passing Tone (diatonic or chromatic)
Neighbor tone (upper, lower, diatonic or chromatic|)
Leaping tone
Escape tone (leap the opposite way)
The compound embellishments are:
double neighbor (enclosure or surround tone)
triple enclosure ( " " )
quadruple enclosure, etc
-
What he said. Originally Posted by tamirgal
I agree with joe, that's bit too much to cover in a forum post. You should probably do some research, and get back with specific questions. Here are some buzzwords you should look out for:
-Barry Harris half step rules
-Barry's 4 related dominant
-Barry's important arpeggios
-Barry's 5-4-3-2
Your best way would be to get it directly from the source, and the closest to that is the Barry Harris workshop DVDs volume 1 and 2. That would be a dollar well spent.
Another great source as Joe point out, is the youtube channel called "Things I learned from Barry Harris". Those videos are well organised and you should spend the time to go over it, and spend the time practicing it.
There are tons of Barry's videos out there on youtube, though you'll have to do some digging, to find specific stuff you are looking for.
And lastly you can check out this essay I wrote, in an attempt to summarise Barry's devices used in his solos:
Ornithology - Barry Harris Transcription - Overview and Analysis.pdf - Google Drive
Lots of stuff to digest...but in a good way
Cheers.
Expect to devote some time to this. Maybe a few years.
-
Barry is about scales and turning scales into musical lines. The GS stuff is application of the material he outlines in workshop inc the dvds. Originally Posted by rintincop
I mean you can work it your own way, but there’s not much point talking about it here cos we’ll just tell you to get the dvds lol.
-
The Barry Harris half step rules are overly complicated and presented in a confusing way, in my opinion. David Baker's book "How To Play Bebop" covers it the same concept more clearly and simply, imo. Basically, you do what you gotta do to make the chord tones stay on the beat or "come out right". In other words PRACTICE adding a half step along the when needed.
Now one might ask how often did famous bebop players actually use these so called half step "bebop" methods? Go look at the Dizzy Gillespie solos and see how little he did it. Flip open to Hal Galper's book Forward Motion and he will explain that when they land on an upbeat it's "forward motion" ... thus escaping from pedantic downbeats and going upbeats instead... hmm... works both ways?
-
Thanks everyone, I will check this stuff out.
-Max
-
I think you have to work with Barry's materials to get into how they work, and how to apply them to analysis and improvisation. TBH I feel you have at best a surface understanding of BH's methods and teaching, and have an idea that it is something other than what it actually is. Originally Posted by rintincop
(Obviously I don't claim that BH is the only valid way of looking at bop material either, you can often find several different ways to look at the same material.)
It's probably easiest to say - it's a suite of techniques and tools to make simple scales into convincing jazz language. At this it works very well in my experience, both for me and for those I have taught this way.
When I do analyse players I find I can break lines down into these melodic chunks and elements very well. Hank Mobley, Grant Green, all those sorts of guys. And Diz, of course.
The added note stuff shows up in loads of players. Try sax players and piano players in particular.... But even Louis and Django used them...
I like Hal Galper's book, and got a lot out of it BTW. It complements Barry well, I often teach the forward motion concept in combination with Barry.
-
look at that horn line up.
But check who's on the piano!
-
Rubbish! Where’s Kenny G? ;-) Originally Posted by don_oz
-
Apparently shedding coltrane... Originally Posted by christianm77
Kenny G - Just a rapid fire sax sesh with some great licks...[0]=68.ARDQ1r7pG8ZS5GZQrkWjsuFDdfyLtaSFu9hHJZZxT-68D3_lsrT6IKGD14BAufC4y27r0sQYpzjm8RPkYpczLCqwCCwD BcdSd3f285JY202vKZjbiNtsAZJuEpnGeTP9GJQrcKRrb2fib8 umHukpn7qKcPd2WzCqMBFvRqrbapNhFJhhEVXPfZ24fmZiaPK3 qG-4jGnaGZEYoiQ0hw&__tn__=FC-R
-
That’s Kenny G? I thought it’s Scott Henderson Originally Posted by don_oz
-
There have been a couple of great threads lately on two note chords/comping. Usually it is the "guide tones", 3rd & 7th. Using the dim/6 chord scales, what would the two note chords be? How would you move up the chord scale with just two "guide tones"? What about dominants if you are using the min6 on the 5th? Anyone have examples or fingerings to show? I'm sure this is all very obvious, but I'm getting myself all confused and my fingers all twisted up.
-
I think you’d want to start from 3rd and 6th so try using any of the scales in Alan’s book which can give you those 2 notes on either the middle 2 strings, or on strings 4 and 5, then just ignore the other notes in the chord shape, and try playing the whole scale like that. But I haven’t tried it myself, possibly it may not work that well or sound right.
-
For example try playing the chord scales on page 10 of Alan's book, but only play the middle 2 notes of each chord. I tried it and it sounds ok to me.
In fact this is really the same thing as playing 'Freddie Green' chords without the 6th string. Which I believe is similar to how Freddie tended to play them himself (i.e. he did not always 'sound' the 6th string).
-
Major 6th Diminished Harmonized in Dyads:
C D
D E
E F
F G
G Ab
Ab A
A B
B C
C E
D F
E G
F Ab
G A
Ab B
A C
B D
C F
D G
E Ab
F A
G B
Ab C
A D
B E
C G
D Ab
E A
F B
G C
Ab D
A E
B F
C Ab
D A
E B
F C
G D
Ab E
A F
B G
C A
D B
E C
F D
G E
Ab F
A G
B Ab
C B
D C
E D
F E
G F
Ab G
A Ab
B A
-
4th str/3rd str:
d/ab - e/a - f/b - g/c - ab/d -
- a/e - b/f - c/g - d/ab ...
-
So the consensus seems to be a pattern of P4th, P5th, and tirones. That seems to work with the 4/5 string set as well.
I guess I was stuck on trying to imply the C6 in every dyad. I couldn’t figure it out. You guys helped me see that In isolation some of these sound pretty ambiguous, but I think that playing them in context as “movement” it will retain its tonal sense. For example, if you linger on A/E it doesn’t really scream that you are playing a C6. But working the A/E -> B/F -> C/G does.
At least that’s my story, and I’m sticking with it! ;-) I’ll have to shed this a little and mix it in to Tim Lerch’s dyad material to see what my ears tell me.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
-
I am no Barry Harris expert, just a decent interval cruncher.
The dyad columns in my last post that begin with Cma6 chord tones: C E, C G, C A
These alternate between Cma6 and Bo7 similar to playing various drop voicings through the scale.
The columns that begin with C D, C F, C Ab, C B contain a lower note from either Cma6 or Bo7 and
an upper note from the other. A borrowed note.
-
Barry stresses that harmony is horizontal, not vertical. Originally Posted by rlrhett
He put it succinctly during his recent visit to Toronto: "As you mess with the scale you end up with movement."
-
I would also be interested in this two note chord concept as it would be good for fast tempos or phrases.
-Max
Reply With Quote
mid-ranginess?
Today, 05:42 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos