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04-08-2024 05:45 PM
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Yes, it's a very long thread and I looked at it today for the first time, but it looks to me like an old wine bottle with a new label - a different way of describing an old concept.
"In the example (Amin7-D7-Gmaj7) Amin7 (C6) actually comes from a different scale than the tonic Gmaj7."
The IV in a major key is a major chord so that is to be expected.
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The middle 8 of Take the A Train has always been a bit of a conundrum for me. Ie the first for bars of IV. Do you consider it to be a key change (as it's 4 bars) and play over it as if it's a I chord or do you keep to the song's key?
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Sixth on the fifth is using the sixth chord from the fifth of the parent chord, so G6 over C6.
Alan’s book is heavy on applications, so he might cover specific cases that don’t seem to meet your criteria, but he also talks about the subject broadly. I’ve found the little variations on the V-I movement to be pretty handy.
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True but I don't think the point I raised is addressed in the book.
To recap:
Suppose you have a ii V in C:
Dmin7 G7 Cmaj
The typical recipe is to use F6dim over Dmin7 and use Dmin6 or Abmin6 over G7.
But the harmonized scale over Dmin7(F6dim) doesn't have the note B (it's got Bb). Now some treat the 6th (B) in the ii minor chord as an avoid note. I don't want to go so far as to suggest that as the reason for the lack of B in the harmony, lol.
In chord-melody applications, if you are harmonizing a scalar melody (or bass line) over the ii chord using this approach, this is a bit of a problem.
The 6th on the 5th examples I looked at also seem to not use that note.Last edited by Tal_175; 04-11-2024 at 03:55 PM.
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I agree it's not the 6dim from the 6th. It's 6dim from the 5th.
So if you use the G6dim scale (over the Am7 in the II V I in G maj) instead of the C6dim you are alternating the G6 chord with the F#dim chord which can be looked at as alternating Cmaj7/9 (G6 is the upper extensions) with Cdim. That eliminates the F nat note.
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Doesnt it though? The C6 would have the B, bing bang boom.
The scales are straightforwardly combination of the parent chord and the diminished chord. So that’s why there’s no B in the F6. But there is the open possibility of a chord scale that does include it the B by using that 6th on the 5.
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Yes, 6th on the 5th if used as 6dim would bring that note. Did you find a 6th on the 5th application in Alan's book that actually does that though?
The thing is, I can use a variety of approaches to harmonize that note. What I find interesting is, the 6dim applications that I have seen don't do it.
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I've always preferred the B nat. Ofcourse Strayhorn carefully kept to the the notes of the IVmaj7 arpeggio in the melody!!!
I've played bass for many years and I've generally adhered to what I was told as a teenager (in the 70s) which was, with passing notes between chord tones, to keep to notes of the key you are in. Over the last 50 years though I've learned that there are exceptions ofcourse.
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