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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Marshall View Post
    I just think of how the note functions. In E major or E dominant, would you name the note on the 4th fret of an e string g sharp or a flat? G sharp, the major 3rd. You would never call it a flat 4th.

    In E flat major or E flat dominant, you would name the 4th fret of an e string? A flat, the perfect 4th. You would never call it a sharp 3rd.
    But then other notes like the 6th fret of an e string in the key of E major or E dominant can be called A sharp OR B flat as it functions both ways. But in E Lydian it would just be A sharp because the 4th is sharp in that mode. So it depends on the scale, mode and any accidentals or alterations in the tune. In the end, it is just a way to remember and communicate with others.

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  3. #102

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    You get a b4 in the altered scale ;-) But that normally functions as a 3 in practice.

  4. #103

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    Regarding the upbeat into the eighth note Triplet, I mentioned this to a singer I know and she said " oh you mean like (singing ) ' my mama done told me " (from " blues in the night")

    Boom. There you go. You're never going to forget it now

  5. #104

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    I did hear of one school of teaching were notated rhythms in blocks of a half note for eights and quarter note for sixteenths were all associated with spoken phrases. Seems like a good system.

  6. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    Regarding the upbeat into the eighth note Triplet, I mentioned this to a singer I know and she said " oh you mean like (singing ) ' my mama done told me " (from " blues in the night")

    Boom. There you go. You're never going to forget it now
    I was listening to Peggy Lee sing that earlier today. Harold Arlen wrote the tune and Johnny Mercer wrote the lyric. And you're right, I'll never forget that example.



    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  7. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    Hope this thread turns out to be a helpful one for people trying to get a basic idea before purchasing some of the study materials, and a good place to ask questions.
    Even having purchased all the materials listed (except the Anatomy of a Tune), I'm hopeful that this thread will offer up examples of the ideas I haven't managed to apply.

    I haven't fully grasped Barry's 'borrowing' idea, even though it's explained very clearly in Alan's book (and demonstrated in Roni Ben-Hur's Chordability).

    I'm keen to see some cool examples of 'borrowing' on video (saying what is being borrowed and from where).

  8. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    I was listening to Peggy Lee sing that earlier today. Harold Arlen wrote the tune and Johnny Mercer wrote the lyric. And you're right, I'll never forget that example.



    Love Peggy Lee.

    Superlative stuff from Ray Charles:

  9. #108

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    Sinatra did a subdued version me of "Blues in the Night" on his "Sings for Only the Lonely". The guy could really get inside a lyric. (This is relevant to Barry's work, as he devotes a lot of attention to vocalizing, and Sinatra was brilliant at that.)

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  10. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    Sinatra did a subdued version me of "Blues in the Night" on his "Sings for Only the Lonely". The guy could really get inside a lyric. (This is relevant to Barry's work, as he devotes a lot of attention to vocalizing, and Sinatra was brilliant at that.)
    The track Ebb Tide - fabulous control. Some of his Jobim, for me, is definitive. (I'm applying Barry's approach to playing bossa nova - which, for me, is beautiful and dearly beloved.)
    Last edited by destinytot; 10-28-2016 at 09:48 AM. Reason: addition

  11. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post
    .....................

    I haven't fully grasped Barry's 'borrowing' idea, even though it's explained very clearly in Alan's book ..............

    Mike: Thanks again for the kind words.

    Try using borrowing on an important minor into a Dominant.

    Dm7 (F6o) – Try a Borrowed diminished from above in the Alto voice. (a straight F Major Seventh will occur).

    Move it up or down a couple Sixth/Diminishes and when landing on a Sixth with borrowed diminished change to the nearest G7 or Abm6 that you like. Make the rhythm work. Maybe the F6o in triplets.

  12. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Kingstone View Post
    Very pretty!

    Here is a woefully unpracticed attempt at demonstrating the Borrowed From Above in the Alto voice.
    Very kind and helpful - thanks very much, Alan!

  13. #112

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    The one or two note borrowing concept, either from the diminished or to the diminished, or from the sixth to the sixth, is a great way to create tension and release it.

    To be honest, like anything else that is important, it takes a really long time to shed . It's on my bucket list. I feel like I have the sixth chords and the diminished chords more or less down, and that took a long long time to shed.

    The borrowing concept is the next ladder of the Barry Harris system . Some of those sounds really great . Especially incorporating the diminished into the six chord.
    Navdeep Singh.

  14. #113

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    So where is everyone???
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  15. #114

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    My DVDs and workbook just arrived today...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    So where is everyone???
    Still here Mark! I know I'm overdue on uploading some scale playing - will do that on Saturday.

    Barry fans will enjoy renting this documentary, 'Barry Harris: The Spirit of Bebop', from Vimeo.
    Watch Barry Harris: The Spirit of Bebop Online | Vimeo On Demand on Vimeo

    https://player.vimeo.com/video/136663440

    London Jazz Guitar Society:
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  17. #116

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    the 4 note chromatic sequences (Barry Harris) are

    Major (I, IV, V). Using C Major as example C-D-Eb-E (Asc). E-D-Db-C. ( Desc). Each major scale degree follows this pattern. So the ascending pattern is different then the descending pattern.

    Minor (ii, iiii, vi, vii) 4 consecutive semitones Asc. Or Desc (e.g., D, Eb-E-F). Each minor scale degree follows this pattern, which is the same ascending and descending. Incidentally, in the Key of C , if you start on E, go up The Four note minor scale degree pattern, , then start on A and go up the minor scale degree pattern, resulting eight note pattern Goetz you get the famous melody for Thelonious Monk's "blue Monk".

    The trick is to mix and match to taste and by ear. I practice these with wide intervals like tenths and thirteenths, it creates a very nice difference between the chromaticism in the wide intervals.
    Navdeep Singh.

  18. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    the 4 note chromatic sequences (Barry Harris) are

    Major (I, IV, V). Using C Major as example C-D-Eb-E (Asc). E-D-Db-C. ( Desc). Each major scale degree follows this pattern. So the ascending pattern is different then the descending pattern.

    Minor (ii, iiii, vi, vii) 4 consecutive semitones Asc. Or Desc (e.g., D, Eb-E-F). Each minor scale degree follows this pattern, which is the same ascending and descending. Incidentally, in the Key of C , if you start on E, go up The Four note minor scale degree pattern, , then start on A and go up the minor scale degree pattern, resulting eight note pattern Goetz you get the famous melody for Thelonious Monk's "blue Monk".

    The trick is to mix and match to taste and by ear. I practice these with wide intervals like tenths and thirteenths, it creates a very nice difference between the chromaticism in the wide intervals.
    You can also play harmonies this way. With Blue Monk (3-5) you can play (1-3) against it.

  19. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    You can also play harmonies this way. With Blue Monk (3-5) you can play (1-3) against it.
    I'm not clear what you mean by harmonies and the numbers you set forth in the parentheses. What do you mean by 3-5 and 1–3 ? You mean play The 4 note chromatic patterns set forth with the first, second, and third scale degree as a form of linear accompaniment ?
    Last edited by NSJ; 11-04-2016 at 09:49 PM.
    Navdeep Singh.

  20. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    I'm not clear what you mean by harmonies and the numbers you set forth in the parentheses. What do you mean by 3-5 and 1–3 ?
    Those are the chord tones you are joining up with the chromatics

  21. #120

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    On the topic of chromatics, I'm not sure if I've posted this here before (stop me if you've heard this...) but I recently came up with a useful descending chromatic major exercise after watching BH's DVDs. He talks briefly about playing down a chromatic scale and reversing the direction whenever a semitone occurs in the parent major scale.

    For example, in C the semitones occur between C-B and F-E. Therefore, the descending C chromatic major scale in its simplest form would be: C-D-B-Bb-A-Ab-G-Gb-F-G-E-Eb-D-Db-C. The interpolated note in this case is the preceding major scale tone. However, it could be any other tone. The dominant 'bebop lick' is an obvious variation. Working from C major's related dominant, G7 instead of G-Gb-F-G-E-D, we find G-Gb-F-A-E-D. The expected passing Eb is missing to allow the D a rhythmic syncopation.

    My exercise takes this pattern and rolls it out over a ii-V-I progression. The line is a continuous loop, jumping up a couple of octaves with each repeat of the progression to avoid running out of space. Notice how the 7th, 5th, 3rd and 1st (root) degrees of the chords are accentuated with each successive line.

    Official Barry Harris Thread-chromatic-major-scale-jpg

  22. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    the 4 note chromatic sequences (Barry Harris) are

    Major (I, IV, V). Using C Major as example C-D-Eb-E (Asc). E-D-Db-C. ( Desc). Each major scale degree follows this pattern. So the ascending pattern is different then the descending pattern. ...
    I do not understand. What and where would be the application, what's the context?

    Same question for minor?




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  23. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    I'm not clear what you mean by harmonies and the numbers you set forth in the parentheses. What do you mean by 3-5 and 1–3 ? You mean play The 4 note chromatic patterns set forth with the first, second, and third scale degree as a form of linear accompaniment ?
    Guess, he meant, we can play parallel line maj 3rd away?

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  24. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    Guess, he meant, we can play parallel line maj 3rd away?

    VladanMovies BlogSpot
    It's a 3rd, but sometimes major, sometimes minor. So, to give you an idea, Blue Monk in C...

    E F F# G

    A third down:

    E F F# G
    C D D# E

    You hear it all the time, both as a third, and of course as a countryish sixth.

    C D D# E
    E F F# G

    Oh, and the blues turnaround, in reverse. (Doesn't use the descending formula. TBH I rarely use the descending form of the major third. I'm sure it'll come in handy though.)

    C C C C
    G Gb F E
    Bb A Ab G

    Oblique movement (I use this lick too much probably)

    C C C C
    E F F# G

    Relates to C7 F F#o7 C in a blues or rhythm tune, for instance.

    Going down from Bb

    C C C C
    Bb A Ab G

    That's the prog
    C7 F Fm6 C
    basically

    (These are also called the two blues endings)

    Now in earlier forms of Rhythm Changes (such as Basie), we have this, often times (in C)

    C6 C#o7 | Dm7 D#o7 | C6/E Ebo7 | Dm7 G7/D |

    Notice, obviously that we are linking the notes C and E in the bassline rhythmically - we are using a connecting figure of 4 notes in bars 1 and 2 for timing reasons and then using the ascending form of the major third in the bass for the last two bars. I'll leave some other Barry heads around here to discuss the interesting properties of the progression Dm7 D#o7 C/E Ebo7 Dm7, BTW

    I could go on and talk about what I call the Cole Porter turnaround, another example, but I'll leave you to ponder this one:

    F#m7b5 Fm6 C6/E Ebo7 Dm7 G7/D C6

    It's my belief that these chromatic linking phrases and voice leading line cliches are the basis or a way of expressing a lot of the decorating harmony we hear in swing music and consequently, bop.
    Last edited by christianm77; 11-05-2016 at 08:54 AM.

  25. #124

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    Oh here's a good one, contrary motion. When someone told me about this one, I was like mind=blown OMG lol. (Sorry)

    E-F-F#-G
    E-Eb-D-C#

    Which relates to-

    Am6 F7 D7 A7

    i.e. the bonkers bridge to Ain't Misbehaving.

  26. #125

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    I knew there was a reason I thought about putting that "maj" in brackets.
    Thanks for lengthy response, though, looks promissing.

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  27. #126

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    No prob.... Did a lot of thinking about this a while back....

  28. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    No prob.... Did a lot of thinking about this a while back....
    Didn't you do some other Harris-related videos previously? If so, I wonder if you might post them here?

  29. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Didn't you do some other Harris-related videos previously? If so, I wonder if you might post them here?
    I'll have a dig around. I try not to put up videos that are too much verbatim Barry concepts in depth. I feel a little uncomfortable doing that. I try to have my own take on it so I'm not just putting the man's work out there under my name.

  30. #129

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    Already posted, but I'll put it here.

    Oh yeah, here's another one (unlisted for the reason above)



    I also had some pdfs, I don't think I can upload pdfs can I?

  31. #130

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    Reposted from ATTYA thread:

    OK, here's my Barry Harris scale breakdown for this tune. Haven't proofread this so there might be mistakes. The middle eight looks mental with those accidentals, but for non-readers, here's the scale breakdown

    1-7 for 1 bar scales, 1-7-1 for 2 bar scales, 7-1 when running a scale down to the third.

    Fm7 --> Ab major (I) (Fm7=Ab6)
    Bbm7 Eb7 --> Eb dominant (V)
    Abmaj7 --> Ab major (I)
    Dbmaj7 --> Db major (IV)
    Dm7b5 G7b9 --> Bb dominant down to the third of G7 (II7)
    Cmaj7 --> C major (III)

    Then, same thing in Eb major.

    Middle 8 is easy
    Am7 D7 --> D dominant
    Gmaj7 --> G major
    F#m7 B7 --> B dominant
    Emaj7 --> E major
    C7b9 --> Eb dominant down to the third of C7

    Fm7 --> Ab major (Fm7=Ab6)
    Bbm7 Eb7 --> Eb dominant
    Abmaj7 --> Ab major
    Dbmaj7 --> Db major
    Gb7 --> Gb dominant
    Ab/C --> Ab major
    Bo7 --> Bb7 down to the third of G7 (?)
    Bbm7 Eb7 --> Eb dominant
    Abmaj7 --> Ab major

    Run in all positions, octaves etc and you will be in an excellent position to solo on the tune.
    Last edited by christianm77; 11-05-2016 at 04:57 PM.

  32. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Reposted from ATTYA thread:

    OK, here's my Barry Harris scale breakdown for this tune.


    Run in all positions, octaves etc and you will be in an excellent position to solo on the tune.
    Thanks, Christian! I'm still working in the first chapter (Basics) of the Workshop DVDs booklet. I know that Barry goes over the scales for "Indiana" later---and I'm starting to work on that tune but I never played it before, or even heard it much, so I was hoping to find something more familiar to work on. This is just the ticket! (I suppose "Autumn Leaves" would be as well. Not that I'm hinting you might want to do that in a stolen moment or anything...)
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  33. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I also had some pdfs, I don't think I can upload pdfs can I?
    Click "Go Advanced"

    then "manage attachments"

    "add files"

    "Browse" and then, select the file

    "upload"

    Not the most intuitive thing. Good luck. :-)

    (I can't access the attachment in the ATTYA post btw.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 11-05-2016 at 05:20 PM.

  34. #133

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    Waitwait! There's MOAAAR!

    There will be no end to the scales! They will run up and down for EVER and EVER and EVER and EVER

    (thanks Matt)
    Attached Images Attached Images

  35. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Oh here's a good one, contrary motion. When someone told me about this one, I was like mind=blown OMG lol. (Sorry)

    E-F-F#-G
    E-Eb-D-C#

    Which relates to-

    Am6 F7 D7 A7

    i.e. the bonkers bridge to Ain't Misbehaving.
    Guilty, m'lud. This kind of thing is probably more common than we think. I was teaching guide tone movements in All of Me at a jazz singers workshop last week and realised that the first three chords (in C), C, E7, A7 move from the initial triad (ok, it's written C6 but the melody is completely triadic) to outline contrary motion around a stable core: Root: C-B-A, 3rd: E-E-E, 5th: G-G#-A. The descent isn't strictly chromatic but if you decide instead to move from the 6th rather than the root, it simply reverses the ascending sequence to A-G#-G.

  36. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    ha! I don't know what is this cracks me up so much about the spelling on that. :-)

    alright, bro. One more to fix, and you'll earn your certificate! :-)
    What in tarnation?

    Official Barry Harris Thread-all-things-you-barry-harris-style-exercise-jpg

  37. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMB View Post
    Guilty, m'lud. This kind of thing is probably more common than we think. I was teaching guide tone movements in All of Me at a jazz singers workshop last week and realised that the first three chords (in C), C, E7, A7 move from the initial triad (ok, it's written C6 but the melody is completely triadic) to outline contrary motion around a stable core: Root: C-B-A, 3rd: E-E-E, 5th: G-G#-A. The descent isn't strictly chromatic but if you decide instead to move from the 6th rather than the root, it simply reverses the ascending sequence to A-G#-G.
    Yeah, I bet the original is just a C.

    Interesting stuff. I think contrary motion is a thing to work on with those changes - it's very easy to just go downwards on those type of changes.

  38. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMB View Post
    I was teaching guide tone movements in All of Me at a jazz singers workshop last week and realised that the first three chords (in C), C, E7, A7 move from the initial triad (ok, it's written C6 but the melody is completely triadic) to outline contrary motion around a stable core: Root: C-B-A, 3rd: E-E-E, 5th: G-G#-A. The descent isn't strictly chromatic but if you decide instead to move from the 6th rather than the root, it simply reverses the ascending sequence to A-G#-G.

    I trust this was serious teaching and by that I mean teaching accompanied by handouts. God, how I love handouts! (God, how I love handouts.) And do you know why? (No! Why?) Because they first loved me! (Sung to the tune of "O, How I Love Jesus.")

    That's fascinating about "All Of Me." That is one of my very favorite tunes. It hangs together so nicely though I've nearly fully grasped how it hangs together so nicely.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  39. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    What in tarnation?
    I have your certificate printing, but it has to be a pdf, bro....

  40. #139

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    I expect some very fancy lettering and a big red seal for this.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  41. #140
    for cm. Apologies for lack of red seal....
    Attached Images Attached Images Official Barry Harris Thread-certificatemagic_08_49_14_001-jpg 
    Attached Images Attached Images

  42. #141
    Red seal...
    Attached Images Attached Images Official Barry Harris Thread-certificatemagic_09_04_11_001-jpg 
    Attached Images Attached Images

  43. #142

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    My mum is so proud.

  44. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    I trust this was serious teaching and by that I mean teaching accompanied by handouts. God, how I love handouts! (God, how I love handouts.) And do you know why? (No! Why?) Because they first loved me! (Sung to the tune of "O, How I Love Jesus.")

    That's fascinating about "All Of Me." That is one of my very favorite tunes. It hangs together so nicely though I've nearly fully grasped how it hangs together so nicely.
    Mostly serious, bar the odd tipple at half-time to break up the 2-hour session. I run 6-week courses working with a professional singer both accompanying and helping the students (mostly amateurs) get a grip on fundamentals: repertoire, basic harmonic principles, count-offs etc. I've done a number of handouts but only a few of the students are strong readers so it makes more sense to get them around the piano to demonstrate this stuff. After 30 years of teaching(!), I like to be more spontaneous these days and make discoveries together with them in the moment. It's also a great opportunity to play lot of tunes in every conceivable key to suit the singer's ranges!

  45. #144

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    Christian, what is the purpose of the Barry Harris exercise?

    edh
    "Ahhh - those Jazz guys are just makin' that stuff up!" - Homer Simpson

    "Anyone who understands Jazz knows that you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it." - Yogi Berra

  46. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by edh View Post
    Christian, what is the purpose of the Barry Harris exercise?

    edh
    To teach you your scales through the tune.

  47. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Those are the chord tones you are joining up with the chromatics
    When I originally posted this, I had been only thinking about this as strictly melodic (i.e., lines), but you've given me something to think about in terms of lines that make changes (combining the 1 and the 3 without repeating notes, i.e, without repeating the 3)


    C-D-D#-E-F-F#-G (asc)
    G-F#-F-E-D-C#-C (desc)

    As always what makes this come alive will be the accents and the asymmetrical note groupings ( e.g., playing 2 or 4 note groupings as triplets, accenting various ones on the way-i.e., every 2, every 3, every 4, etc).


    Basically, you can just think of the simplest chord form, the triad, and use the formula for the 1 and 3, put them together in combination, as lines moving linearly, and think of interesting rhythmic and accent patterns to play with them, and boom...MUSIC!
    Navdeep Singh.

  48. #147

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    Any thoughts on the tritone lines?

    In a YT video ("Tritone Lines on Embraceable You", if I'm not mistaken) BH plays something like:

    Official Barry Harris Thread-tritones-jpg

    It seems like a pretty straightforward process.
    Any tips on that?


  49. #148

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    Okay, boys and girls, Santa's making a list and checking it twice----are you all practicing like you're supposed to? ;o)

    I'm practicing, but a bit less of this than I had intended. But fear not, I have not jumped ship. (Though I did switch picks again. I have cigar box full of all kinds and am using some I have had around for years but didn't take to when I first got them.)

    I see this month and next as finishing up a pretty good year and setting the stage for a more productive 2017. And learning more tunes. So all is well, just not as bebop-ish as I had thought it would be by this time. Still do some half-step rule playing every day---starting to come more naturally.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  50. #149

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    Just noticed that Jamey Aebersold's "black Friday" sale will have Barry's Workshop DVD on sale for 76 bucks. Volume 2 for 84 bucks, and the Vocal workshop will be 42 dollars. Best prices I've seen.

    Jamey Aebersold Jazz: jazzbooks.com

    (I am unaffiliated with Jamey Aebersold's site. I just buy stuff there and noticed this.)
    Last edited by MarkRhodes; 11-23-2016 at 08:22 PM.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  51. #150

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    A Barry Harris-influenced exercise outlining chromatic fragments from the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th degrees over the five basic seventh chord types:

    Official Barry Harris Thread-chromatic-fragments-jpg