Official Barry Harris Thread

[christianm77]

Interesting. Up and down from the ROOT?What contexts was he talking about for application of it?

Just up, and on IVm in All of Me. From the root.

[rlrhett]

Thank you Joe. That was along my thinking as well. I am dissatisfied with a mindset that banishes the dom7 chord and my leaning was to hear the min6/dim as movement that liked to make a final stop at a dom7 by dropping the 5th a whole step before resolving to the target tonality.

Just to make sure I'm understanding you:

You either like to lead to the I with a biiidim7 OR choose a chord derived from the VIIdim7 chord (the dim of the target's 6/dim scale). Obviously these aren't the same dim7 chords. If the latter you like to blend the min6 with its siblings by dropping the 5th a whole step to dom7 or even walking it down through the dim/dom/domb5.

Is that something you came up with experimenting, or did you get that at a BH seminar?

[christianm77]

The 7b5 - dim scale, people.

Also, try planing a dom7 through the min6-dim scale.

Also triads from brothers and sisters over a b7 shell.... So C and Bb with a Eb, A or F# on - Jordan, are you about?

Things that came up today in class.

[pcsanwald]

You don't go to NYC unless you are serious, but from what I know, you hang on in there, it's the place to be. Tough for sure... but if you are in a badass environment, you will be a badass,

I recently moved back to NYC after living in the bay area for 2 years.

pros:

- can go see great, inspiring music every night. last night I was walking to smalls to watch Jon Irabagon, Rudy Royston, Luis Perdomo and Tim Hagans play a show at 7:30pm on a wednesday, and I walked by the 55 bar where Ben Monder's trio with Tony Malaby was also playing the early set. It truly is a listener's paradise.

- can take lessons with anyone you like. Barry Harris' classes are great. I took a classical bass lesson with a NY philharmonic bassist. it's insane.

- on the gigs you do play, everyone will be very, very good.

- musicians are generally open to getting together just to play and hang out. this is less common in other areas of the US I've been in, where you generally need to have a paying gig to call another good player to play. not true in NYC.

cons:

- extreme imbalance in supply and demand means it's hard to find and keep gigs. with internationally famous jazz musicians playing at dive bars on weeknights, it's just harder to find a gig, and no one's phone is ringing off the hook, except maybe Rudy Royston. but, it's not impossible and even journeyman jazz musicians like myself can play good gigs occasionally.

- basically need to have some kind of day job or be very successful musician to make a living.

I loved my time in the bay area, I played all kinds of cool gigs with all kinds of different bands, and it was the best possible thing I could have done for my playing (started playing upright 4 years ago) to quickly gain experience. That said, I did feel like there was only so far I could take things musically there, in terms of my quartet, and I've never once felt that way living in NYC.

[rlrhett]

The 7b5 - dim scale, people.

Also, try planing a dom7 through the min6-dim scale.

Also triads from brothers and sisters over a b7 shell.... So C and Bb with a Eb, A or F# on - Jordan, are you about?

Things that came up today in class.

Care to elucidate. C'mon, I know you want to... You are just dying to fire up that cam corder, I know it! It's sitting there all lonely calling your name.

Seriously, we've had endless talk of the dom7/dim and dom7b5/dim but few real examples of it being used in context. Can I coax you to show me how BH might teach using them over a medium tempo major Blues or Rhythm Changes? Do they blend in with the min6/dim scales like Joe is doing (that what I think I'm hearing in BH's playing) ? Does the dom7b5/dim work equally well leading to a major or minor chord? Again, in my mind I always associate that dom7b5 sound as going to a minor chord.

Likewise, what do you mean "play a dom7 through a min6-dim scale"? Do you mean play the mixolydian scale over a backing of min6-dim? Do you mean play min6-dim chords over a static dom7 chord? Do you mean play dom7 inversions over its related "important minor" min6?

I know it may seem I am being pedantic, but I am one of those persons that really needs to understand something thoroughly from as many angles as possible before I can assimilate it. I wish I could just "get on with playing", but really understanding these concepts helps me to keep my thinking clear when I am arranging a melody --especially if I am trying to do it on the fly.

[grahambop]

Don’t know if this helps, but I found an old thread about this very question. Alan K. posted a few ideas in it too:

How do you use Barry Harris's Dom. 7th dim and Dom 7th b5 scales?

[christianm77]

Well you can once I've worked how to do it. Sure sounds good when Barry does it.

[christianm77]

Take a G7 and plane through Dm6-dim for instance

[Tal_175]

I recently moved back to NYC after living in the bay area for 2 years.

pros:

- can go see great, inspiring music every night. last night I was walking to smalls to watch Jon Irabagon, Rudy Royston, Luis Perdomo and Tim Hagans play a show at 7:30pm on a wednesday, and I walked by the 55 bar where Ben Monder's trio with Tony Malaby was also playing the early set. It truly is a listener's paradise.

- can take lessons with anyone you like. Barry Harris' classes are great. I took a classical bass lesson with a NY philharmonic bassist. it's insane.

- on the gigs you do play, everyone will be very, very good.

- musicians are generally open to getting together just to play and hang out. this is less common in other areas of the US I've been in, where you generally need to have a paying gig to call another good player to play. not true in NYC.

cons:

- extreme imbalance in supply and demand means it's hard to find and keep gigs. with internationally famous jazz musicians playing at dive bars on weeknights, it's just harder to find a gig, and no one's phone is ringing off the hook, except maybe Rudy Royston. but, it's not impossible and even journeyman jazz musicians like myself can play good gigs occasionally.

- basically need to have some kind of day job or be very successful musician to make a living.

I loved my time in the bay area, I played all kinds of cool gigs with all kinds of different bands, and it was the best possible thing I could have done for my playing (started playing upright 4 years ago) to quickly gain experience. That said, I did feel like there was only so far I could take things musically there, in terms of my quartet, and I've never once felt that way living in NYC.

Are you a bass player? If so we need to multiply the cons by 700 or so. I think that's about the ratio of guitar players to bass players

[grahambop]

Don’t know if this helps, but I found an old thread about this very question. Alan K. posted a few ideas in it too:

How do you use Barry Harris's Dom. 7th dim and Dom 7th b5 scales?

In that thread someone suggests applying the ideas on page 14 of Alan’s book to the dom7/dim and dom7b5/dim scales, could look into that.

[Tal_175]

You started 4 years ago? Say, I can't imagine someone who took up guitar 4 years ago getting gigs in NY (Unless of course they're Wes Montgomery, I think that's about how long it took him to become a legend).
Not to mention upright bass is probably a more difficult instrument to learn than guitar.

[christianm77]

Well I suppose it's a good way to learn.

I mean it took me basically 5 years to learn how to do drop2's in the maj6-dim scale. I doubt things take so long in NYC... They'd run you out of town....

[pcsanwald]

You started 4 years ago? Say, I can't imagine someone who took up guitar 4 years ago getting gigs in NY (Unless of course they're Wes Montgomery, I think that's about how long it took him to become a legend).
Not to mention upright bass is probably a more difficult instrument to learn than guitar.

I did, yeah. but, I have played jazz guitar professionally since I was a teenager; and I was 37 when I started upright, so, that's a huge advantage; I already knew hundreds of tunes and could play things in any key, time signatures, all that stuff. Also, I took to it very naturally, in a way that guitar never came naturally to me despite years and years of work. Also I am not some kind of amazing musician, although, I do think I play upright fairly well in that I have a good sound, can swing really well, know my limitations and can play to my strengths.

[joe2758]

7b5 dim is my favorite scale. In Emily I use it at :45, in Stella I use it at :20 and 1:08

[Tal_175]

I did, yeah. but, I have played jazz guitar professionally since I was a teenager; and I was 37 when I started upright, so, that's a huge advantage; I already knew hundreds of tunes and could play things in any key, time signatures, all that stuff. Also, I took to it very naturally, in a way that guitar never came naturally to me despite years and years of work. Also I am not some kind of amazing musician, although, I do think I play upright fairly well in that I have a good sound, can swing really well, know my limitations and can play to my strengths.

No doubt, you must be a natural on the bass. 4 years is a short time to get to gigging level in NY.
I've been playing for 20 years. I didn't always play seriously. But I agree a lot of time spend on the instrument goes to learning things that are not really specific to the instrument. One learns about music, repertoire, develops ears etc. Most importantly one learns about themselves and how they learn music. I can see how these all can be transfered to any instrument quickly. Technique is really the easy part.

[joe2758]

at 1:55 I was playing dom/dim. specifically E7/dim resolving to C

[rlrhett]

Don’t know if this helps, but I found an old thread about this very question. Alan K. posted a few ideas in it too:

How do you use Barry Harris's Dom. 7th dim and Dom 7th b5 scales?

EXACTLY what I was looking for.

I was going to insert a clip of the movie FROZEN where Olaf says, “I don’t know if this helps, but I found stairs leading exactly to where you want to go.” Unfortunately YouTube search let me down.

Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[tamirgal]

Hey,

I recently downloaded a trial version of guitar pro to experiment with it a bit. Eventually I ended up transcribing a Barry Harris solo on Ornithology.

So I thought I’d share it here. Here’s a video of the transcription synced with the original audio for maximum convenience:

This version is from his recording Complete Live in Tokyo 1976. Love this album.

If anyone is interested in the pdf I can share that as well.

Hope it’s helpful to anyone, I learned allot during this process. Happy to hear any feedback on the results.

Cheers,
Tamir

[WILSON 1]

Yeah, I sure would like to know what process you used to transcribe that!

Thanks for all your work.

[christianm77]

Here's a good process:

Don't let technology do too much heavy lifting...

[christianm77]

Hey,

I recently downloaded a trial version of guitar pro to experiment with it a bit. Eventually I ended up transcribing a Barry Harris solo on Ornithology.

So I thought I’d share it here. Here’s a video of the transcription synced with the original audio for maximum convenience:

This version is from his recording Complete Live in Tokyo 1976. Love this album.

If anyone is interested in the pdf I can share that as well.

Hope it’s helpful to anyone, I learned allot during this process. Happy to hear any feedback on the results.

Cheers,
Tamir

UGH, tab!!!! :-)

Nice job, man... I should focus and do a whole solo again... It's been about a year since my last, but I do bits and pieces every day...

[joe2758]

yeah i will be working on this. still never learned a whole solo, but this would be a good one i think

[christianm77]

BTW talking about transcription, I realised something in the Barry improv class (a lot of which is transcription in tempo at real time, sink or swim :-))

Barry Harris teaches in WORDS and SENTENCES. The idea is not to spend hours puzzling out lines note by note, the aim is to get the word or the common idiom in one go. Once this is done, transcription is no longer necessary. You just listen to the music at tempo and hear what's going on (90% of the time at least.)

These words and usages have flexibility and room for variation built in, but they are basic structures you can hear quickly.

I think we all have that to some extent - for instance, I bet all of us could recognise a descending blues phrase starting on the b5, and we all have phrases that we play that we can hear in other players.

The thing is, that's what 'bebop vocabulary' means - it's quite literally things you can say and have a conversation in real time, and that's the thing about that era of jazz, and why I think people who talk about 'creativity' or 'moving the music forwards' kind of miss the point. It's not about that. I mean, I can say

ghkjdfidqpoguh1g

Doesn't mean it has any value!

And of course, there are other words from other branches of jazz.

But I don't know anyone else who teaches that way. Or at least I haven't had contact with them. A lot of books and courses aim to teach the grammar without teaching the conversational idioms.

[joe2758]

ghkjdfidqpoguh1g

do you have tabs for this???

[christianm77]

do you have tabs for this???

Oh OK then:

-------------------12-17
-----------10-12
------6-8
----9
--7
5