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  1. #701
    It's I-IV-I like in bars 5 and 6 of rhythm changes, or bars 1 and 2 of the blues. 2 beats per chord
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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #702

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    It's I-IV-I like in bars 5 and 6 of rhythm changes, or bars 1 and 2 of the blues. 2 beats per chord
    Ah.. So 2 beats per chord is psrt of the excersise?

    And what's the idea behind it? I mean the turnaround itslef is common...

  4. #703
    So here’s literally how ive been practicing in all voicings and keys. here i am doing drop 3 in G
    1. bass lines
    2. bass lines with chords
    3. I consider subs that have the same bass note (related doms, b5 dom, tritones minor in this case. i also toy with the 5th on the 6th at the end of the 6th-string-bass section.
    4. i move on to the 5th-string-bass and improvise a little melody using borrowed notes. keep bass line intact.
    5. Here i end the video and would have started a new key and or voicing such as drop 2

    again, i didnt prepare anything this is what it looks like as i practice

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  5. #704

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    I appreciate all the comments offered from folks here. Every experienced player has ideas about things and I like to hear them.

    Ive decided I want to move forward with my own way of doing things with a good dose of Barry influence thrown in. Thanks for helping, knowing what to practice is now much easier...
    Pete Martin - just a mandolin guy but loves jazz guitar
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  6. #705

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    So here’s literally how ive been practicing in all voicings and keys. here i am doing drop 3 in G
    1. bass lines
    2. bass lines with chords
    3. I consider subs that have the same bass note (related doms, b5 dom, tritones minor in this case. i also toy with the 5th on the 6th at the end of the 6th-string-bass section.
    4. i move on to the 5th-string-bass and improvise a little melody using borrowed notes. keep bass line intact.
    5. Here i end the video and would have started a new key and or voicing such as drop 2

    again, i didnt prepare anything this is what it looks like as i practice
    so it is just a type of changes with bass movement chosen to excersise?

    I suppose you can basically take any conventional turnaround in any more or less conventionl voicings just for practice.. right?

    I am just trying to figure out if there is something special behind this choice.. some idea I miss to get maybe...
    (yes I think too much as usually, my teacher always told me: just play this excercise, don't think why... I used to say: I can't.. even before I started playing I alread had understood where it would lead to... it seems boring to play now))) )

  7. #706
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    so it is just a type of changes with bass movement chosen to excersise?

    I suppose you can basically take any conventional turnaround in any more or less conventionl voicings just for practice.. right?

    I am just trying to figure out if there is something special behind this choice.. some idea I miss to get maybe...
    (yes I think too much as usually, my teacher always told me: just play this excercise, don't think why... I used to say: I can't.. even before I started playing I alread had understood where it would lead to... it seems boring to play now))) )

    I'm not really comfortable in a teaching role, more just passing things along as I go. It's a true teachers job to decide how much to say directly (what the point of an exercise is for example) and how much to let the student work out.

    I think our goals are different, I'm more of a traditionalist. Sounds like you're looking for new and exciting concepts? Maybe I'm wrong?

    I'm a different type of student than you, I just put faith in my teachers and practice what they tell me. I discover the "why" along the way. That keeps me from the trap of understanding something and then getting the false impression that I can automatically play it. That was my problem in highschool, I thought once I got the concept that's all I needed. Then I figured out I couldn't play any of it in any real context.

    So when Alan told me the simple exercise, I thought "hmm, why is this important? of all the things he could tell me practice every day, why would he pick this one?" The difference here is I didn't ask Allen the reason why, I just got to work.

    Since he was specifying inversions, that was my clue that main point was a bass line. I played the bass line and thought "oh it's that old chestnut I hear everywhere." Then as I played more I thought "oh that movement is why we play IV to iv or IV to #iv dim." Then I thought "what can I do to create with this?"

    Sure, you can play any space age chord anywhere you want, but having guidelines rooted in the tradition of the past keeps us grounded and within a certain style (which is what I like). I have more than enough freedom to create.

    Sorry if this completely danced around your question
    Last edited by joe2758; 12-27-2018 at 11:30 AM.
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  8. #707

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    So here’s literally how ive been practicing in all voicings and keys. here i am doing drop 3 in G
    1. bass lines
    2. bass lines with chords
    3. I consider subs that have the same bass note (related doms, b5 dom, tritones minor in this case. i also toy with the 5th on the 6th at the end of the 6th-string-bass section.
    4. i move on to the 5th-string-bass and improvise a little melody using borrowed notes. keep bass line intact.
    5. Here i end the video and would have started a new key and or voicing such as drop 2

    again, i didnt prepare anything this is what it looks like as i practice

    Thanks Joe for putting this video up. Reminded me I need to practice my Barry's harmony stuff, on my to do list for too long.

    The exercise nicely illustrate the two common ways to go from I to IV and then back to the I. Barry do say you need to practice your ways to get there...

    Here's Barry in his own words about those two ways (go to ~00:09:30):



    And yeah it's also bar 5 and 6 of rhythm changes, but when I listen to old cats like Barry or Bud on rhythm changes, I can hear they play it all the way straight from bar 1 instead of playing I-VI-ii-V, so I assume it is all interchangeable?

    Listen here to Pasquale comp behind his brother here on Wail:



    Listen here to Barry comp behind Lee Konitz on Anthropology:



    So bottom line, you should practice your ways to go to the 4 and back to the 1 (or as Barry put it, ways to go to heaven and then back to earth )

    Cheers.
    T.

  9. #708

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    It's called the "walk up" (by me) works in many situations (last 4 of "St. Thomas" is another well known example). It's a good vamp too.

    Bars 5-8 Rhythm Changes
    | C C7/E | F F#dim | C6/G A7 | D-7 G7 ||

    Bars 1 - 4 blues
    || C7 C7/E | F7 F#dim | C7/G | C7 Gb7 |
    |F7 | F7 | I IV7 | iii7 VI7 |
    | ii7 | V7 | I VI7 | ii7 V7 :||

  10. #709

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    OT: Any critique of the BH type application of a scale drill on a C minor blues ? (bass cleff is piano left hand)


    Minor.Blues.SCALES.pdf
    Studied privately with Mark Levine from 1986-1989 and with Barry Harris 1990-1992.

  11. #710
    great examples, Tamir! I mean i knew they were interchangable in a broad sense since they are both turnarounds to one, just that we have a 1-4-1 as opposed to 1-5-1.

    I certainly hear in those videos what you’re saying, especially Barry Harris playing it starting it beat one of the first solo!
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  12. #711

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    I'm not really comfortable in a teaching role, more just passing things along as I go. It's a true teachers job to decide how much to say directly (what the point of an exercise is for example) and how much to let the student work out.

    I think our goals are different, I'm more of a traditionalist. Sounds like you're looking for new and exciting concepts? Maybe I'm wrong?

    I'm a different type of student than you, I just put faith in my teachers and practice what they tell me. I discover the "why" along the way. That keeps me from the trap of understanding something and then getting the false impression that I can automatically play it. That was my problem in highschool, I thought once I got the concept that's all I needed. Then I figured out I couldn't play any of it in any real context.

    So when Alan told me the simple exercise, I thought "hmm, why is this important? of all the things he could tell me practice every day, why would he pick this one?" The difference here is I didn't ask Allen the reason why, I just got to work.

    Since he was specifying inversions, that was my clue that main point was a bass line. I played the bass line and thought "oh it's that old chestnut I hear everywhere." Then as I played more I thought "oh that movement is why we play IV to iv or IV to #iv dim." Then I thought "what can I do to create with this?"

    Sure, you can play any space age chord anywhere you want, but having guidelines rooted in the tradition of the past keeps us grounded and within a certain style (which is what I like). I have more than enough freedom to create.

    Sorry if this completely danced around your question
    Thank you. It's all vey reasonable and of course with my attitude I had problems that you described too (but I could not help it)

    And this is what I enjoy in Barry Harris study too.. how the things of traditional language begin to come out under your fingers.

    Especially with line excercises it was exciting how bop sound occasionally began to naturally shine in the soloing...

  13. #712

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    Sounds like you're looking for new and exciting concepts? Maybe I'm wrong?
    Not new... just things that lead me somewehre I feel I should be.
    ... I can't play in style, I can do it for fun but I cannot do it seriously like with all the energy that music really deserves.
    But it is my problem of course...

  14. #713

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop View Post
    OT: Any critique of the BH type application of a scale drill on a C minor blues ? (bass cleff is piano left hand)


    Minor.Blues.SCALES.pdf
    Looking good

  15. #714

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    5432 get out of trouble phrases are good. Did he offer any additional ones?

    5432.MINOR.pdf

  16. #715
    Here's the latest video from Chris. looking at 1 chord to relative minor, we would have 3 scales for the outline. However, if we consider it one harmonic movement, we can practice actual chord movements that give us forward motion. Under his video is a phrase I made going from Eb to Cmin.

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  17. #716
    anyone toyed with playing 5432 phrases on other scale degrees?

    on c major play:

    f a c e like you would on a 3 phrase. difference is since you’re starting on f you start on an upbeat.

    so that’s playing phrase 3 on the 2nd scale degree

    i lnow my example is just pivoting a chord... but it works for the other ones too and generated some new ideas for me.

    2 phrase works anywhere and has the effect of changing the same note to an upbeat or downbeat. perfect for “getting out of trouble” you can land on 3 on an upbeat then make it right with the 2 phrase
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  18. #717

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    anyone toyed with playing 5432 phrases on other scale degrees?

    on c major play:

    f a c e like you would on a 3 phrase. difference is since you’re starting on f you start on an upbeat.

    so that’s playing phrase 3 on the 2nd scale degree

    i lnow my example is just pivoting a chord... but it works for the other ones too and generated some new ideas for me.

    2 phrase works anywhere and has the effect of changing the same note to an upbeat or downbeat. perfect for “getting out of trouble” you can land on 3 on an upbeat then make it right with the 2 phrase
    Lost me there joe

  19. #718

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    Lost me too, maybe you need to spell out the notes to be more clear

    For example the standard 3 Phrase in C spelled out:
    Leap down from E (3rd) and ascending G B D (V triad outline)

    (I'm guessing you are applying it to the 2nd mode of C ?).
    Are saying play the phrase a diatonic step higher?
    Leap down from F and ascending A C E ?

  20. #719
    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop View Post
    Lost me too, maybe you need to spell out the notes to be more clear

    For example the standard 3 Phrase in C spelled out:
    Leap down from E (3rd) and ascending G B D (V triad outline)

    (I'm guessing you are applying it to the 2nd mode of C ?).
    Are saying play the phrase a diatonic step higher?
    Leap down from F and ascending A C E ?
    you got it; sorry i wasn't clear

    so take that idea and try each phrase on each scale degree...see what ones work
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  21. #720

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    Well the phrases are all fairly simple no?

    5 = descending fifth followed by ascending fourth decorated by lower neighbour on second note and upper neighbour on 3rd note
    4 = 3 note enclosure/surround
    3 = pivot arpeggio
    2 = chromatic approach thingy

    So they should all work. Might need to change the order of notes in 4. I always think it’s best to use diatonic upper and lower for that and slot the chromatic in where there’s a gap.

  22. #721
    haha ya'll just saying stuff from my post. I use the minor 4 phrase where needed
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  23. #722

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    Different example, but here playing a minor 5-3ish phrase from the ii minor. Played in ii-V context (last four bars of the blues).

    The pivot arpeggio of the 3 phrase in ii minor is the same as the 7th of the dominant, and that’s classic barry.

  24. #723
    Hey, i thought this might be a fun challenge for you guys. Here is a list of chord moves: ( ° is half diminished for this post)
    1. I - im7
    2. V9 - ii° - V alt
    3. I - #iv°
    4. ii° - V alt
    5. iim7 - V9
    6. I - II9 - iim7

    The puzzle is what do all these have in common?
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  25. #724

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    I have no clue! Maybe you can share some insight on this?

  26. #725

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    I haven’t a Scooby

  27. #726

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    The puzzle is what do all these have in common?
    Probably not the answer you are looking for but these are all either dominant or subdominant moves that
    can bring it back to I major.

  28. #727
    They are all minor third movements (here's in C):

    1. C6 to Eb6
    2. Dm6 to Fm6 to Abm6
    3. C6 to Am6
    4. Fmin6 to Ab min6
    5. F6 to Dm6
    6. C6 to Am6 - and then I was wrong on the iim7 I think lol

    but anyway, the point is I've been practicing cycles of minor thirds in closest inversions. The result is I can play these moves easily without thinking in any inversion (well, I'm still working on it but I'm seeing nice results). These are just the ones I've found from looking at how high the moon and Cherokee...I'll keep looking for more as I work on various tunes I think.

    Some things I don't necessarily think of another chord for example F6 to G9 I just lower the 5th etc
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  29. #728

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    You guys seen this?


  30. #729

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    For Confirmation, I have the following outlines. Can Any of you Barry Harris experts let me know if I missed anything?


    First A;
    F major up
    C7 down to third of A
    Dm up
    F7 up
    Bb7 up
    D7 up
    G7 up
    C7 up


    Second and third A;
    F major up
    C7 down to third of A
    Dm up
    F7 up
    Bb7 up
    D7 up
    C7 up
    F major up


    B part
    F7 up and down
    Bb major up and down
    Ab7 up and down
    Db major up
    C7 up
    Pete Martin - just a mandolin guy but loves jazz guitar
    www.PetimarPress.com
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    Pete Plays Wes free download
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  31. #730

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petimar View Post
    For Confirmation, I have the following outlines. Can Any of you Barry Harris experts let me know if I missed anything?


    First A;
    F major up
    C7 down to third of A
    Dm up
    F7 up
    Bb7 up
    D7 up
    G7 up
    C7 up


    Second and third A;
    F major up
    C7 down to third of A
    Dm up
    F7 up
    Bb7 up
    D7 up
    C7 up
    F major up


    B part
    F7 up and down
    Bb major up and down
    Ab7 up and down
    Db major up
    C7 up
    The charts I have show the third bar of the A sections as |Dmin G7|, so I'd use G7 instead of Dmin there.

  32. #731
    I understand needing some confirmation on that. sorry.
    White belt
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  33. #732
    bar 3: G7 up is probably what is standard...Dm is cool too though. rest looks good from what I know
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  34. #733

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petimar View Post
    For Confirmation, I have the following outlines. Can Any of you Barry Harris experts let me know if I missed anything?


    First A;
    F major up
    C7 down to third of A
    Dm up
    F7 up
    Bb7 up
    D7 up
    G7 up
    C7 up


    Second and third A;
    F major up
    C7 down to third of A
    Dm up
    F7 up
    Bb7 up
    D7 up
    C7 up
    F major up


    B part
    F7 up and down
    Bb major up and down
    Ab7 up and down
    Db major up
    C7 up
    Looks good to me.

    You could go F7 down to 3rd D7 on the D7. That’s the option Roni Ben Hur prefers as it’s more in the key, but either is cool.

    You are not going to have enough time to play the scales for G7 C7 on the second A, and I see you just put C7 there, which is fine, but you could play 1-2-3-5 instead.

  35. #734

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    Article in JazzTimes this week: Inside the Barry Harris Method - JazzTimes

    London Jazz Guitar Society:
    www.meetup.com/londonjazzguitarsociety
    LJGS on Twitter: www.twitter.com/LDNJazzGuitar

  36. #735

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    You could go F7 down to 3rd D7 on the D7. That’s the option Roni Ben Hur prefers as it’s more in the key, but either is cool.
    Very cool, don't know why I didn't see that. I like this and will start using this.

    Thanks everyone! Its little nuggets like this that keep me asking.

    By the way, anyone still working through Chris' videos?
    Pete Martin - just a mandolin guy but loves jazz guitar
    www.PetimarPress.com
    Www.Jazz-Mandolin.com
    Pete Plays Wes free download
    www.jazz-mandolin.com/PetePlaysWes.xht

  37. #736
    Quote Originally Posted by Petimar View Post
    Very cool, don't know why I didn't see that. I like this and will start using this.

    Thanks everyone! Its little nuggets like this that keep me asking.

    By the way, anyone still working through Chris' videos?
    Not in the same way I was, but that was SUPER beneficial while it lasted. Right now I have a pretty narrow scope of what I'm working on as I prepare for a Howard Rees intensive workshop in August
    White belt
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  38. #737

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    Not in the same way I was, but that was SUPER beneficial while it lasted. Right now I have a pretty narrow scope of what I'm working on as I prepare for a Howard Rees intensive workshop in August
    Do you know that Barry Harris is actually giving a workshop in Howard Rees's studio in May?

  39. #738
    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    Do you know that Barry Harris is actually giving a workshop in Howard Rees's studio in May?
    Yeah I'm going to try to make it, but I'm not sure if i can. The Auguest one I was able to clear my schedule for. Anyone else going to either?
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  40. #739

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    Yeah I'm going to try to make it, but I'm not sure if i can. The Auguest one I was able to clear my schedule for. Anyone else going to either?
    Not sure yet. I have attended in the past both Barry Harris and Howard Rees workshops in that same location though.

  41. #740

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    Yeah I'm going to try to make it, but I'm not sure if i can. The Auguest one I was able to clear my schedule for. Anyone else going to either?
    I wish I could make any of these. But not in this lifetime

  42. #741
    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    Not sure yet. I have attended in the past both Barry Harris and Howard Rees workshops in that same location though.
    Well shoot me a message if you can go; would be cool to meet you.
    White belt
    My Youtube

  43. #742

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    Yeah I'm going to try to make it, but I'm not sure if i can. The Auguest one I was able to clear my schedule for. Anyone else going to either?
    I’ll be at the Saturday and Sunday harmony classes in May, the only ones that fit my schedule. I haven’t missed a chance to see Barry in Toronto in at least the last ten years.
    Last edited by pcjazz; 04-12-2019 at 04:33 PM. Reason: schedule change

  44. #743

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    Well shoot me a message if you can go; would be cool to meet you.
    Definitely. Likewise.

  45. #744
    Quote Originally Posted by pcjazz View Post
    I’ll be at the Saturday morning harmony class in May, the only one that fits my schedule. I haven’t missed a chance to see Barry in Toronto in at least the last ten years.
    Cool! Yeah anyone going should shoot me a message. I'm coming all the way from Pennsylvania
    White belt
    My Youtube

  46. #745
    Hey, what is the break down of the other classes in May in terms of improv and vocal (or any others)? What is the schedule like?
    White belt
    My Youtube

  47. #746

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    Hey, what is the break down of the other classes in May in terms of improv and vocal (or any others)? What is the schedule like?
    There is also harmony and tap dancing I think.

  48. #747

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    Here is the schedule. You can email Howard for other details.

    WHEN: Friday May 3rd to Sunday May 5th.

    SCHEDULE:
    * Harmony Classes: Fri 5:30 to 7:30pm; Sat & Sun 10:30am to 1pm
    * Improvisation Classes: Sat 2:30 to 5pm, Sun 2:30 to 4:30pm
    * Tap Dancer’s Improvisation Class: Sat 5:45 to 7:45pm
    * Vocal Class: Sunday 4:30 to 6:30pm


    LUNCH BREAK: each day from 1pm to 2:30pm. There is a wide variety of cafes in the immediate area.




  49. #748
    Tap dancing! that does it, i gotta get my ass over there.
    So I just show up right?
    White belt
    My Youtube

  50. #749

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    Tap dancing! that does it, i gotta get my ass over there.
    So I just show up right?
    You have to register first. Today is the early registration deadline. i.e. The fee will go up after today. I'd recommend you email Howard today if you want to get the discount.

  51. #750

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    Tap dancing! that does it, i gotta get my ass over there.
    So I just show up right?
    Bojangles2758