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  1. #651

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    i bet Db7 down to the 3rd of Bb would sound cool...that's what i would do. small difference.
    Then up the diminished from the third of Bb. I bet that would sound pretty!
    It would be something like this: run Db7 down from the 7 to the third of Bb7 in 16th notes. You land on beat 3 of the bar. Then go up the dimished from the 5th of Bb7 as an 8th note triplets F, Ab, B and resolve to Bb and play 4. Anyone got a guitar to hand and fancy recording that phrase?

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #652
    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    IV-bVII7-I? There must be a video or a section on one of these DVDs. Such a common move. Anyone have a reference?(not that I don’t think don and joe both offer perfectly fine answers.)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    he talks about going from IV to iv in the workbooks, but not in a scale-outline
    White belt
    My Youtube

  4. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by don_oz View Post
    Then up the diminished from the third of Bb. I bet that would sound pretty!
    It would be something like this: run Db7 down from the 7 to the third of Bb7 in 16th notes. You land on beat 3 of the bar. Then go up the dimished from the 5th of Bb7 as an 8th note triplets F, Ab, B and resolve to Bb and play 4. Anyone got a guitar to hand and fancy recording that phrase?
    c'mon man we wouldn't be here if we had a guitar handy! at least i hope not! if you do, go practice
    White belt
    My Youtube

  5. #654

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    c'mon man we wouldn't be here if we had a guitar handy! at least i hope not! if you do, go practice
    All I hear is excuses Joe

  6. #655
    i can air guitar it
    White belt
    My Youtube

  7. #656

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    Scale outline for the last 8 of Green Dolphin Street, for a forthcoming video:

    GDS correct.pdf

  8. #657

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_oz View Post
    Then up the diminished from the third of Bb. I bet that would sound pretty!
    It would be something like this: run Db7 down from the 7 to the third of Bb7 in 16th notes. You land on beat 3 of the bar. Then go up the dimished from the 5th of Bb7 as an 8th note triplets F, Ab, B and resolve to Bb and play 4. Anyone got a guitar to hand and fancy recording that phrase?
    Had the chance to play it, and I was wrong about it rhytmically. To make it fit you would have to start the 16th note run on the upbeat of beat 1 for you to land correctly.

  9. #658
    weird, sounded great on my air guitar
    White belt
    My Youtube

  10. #659

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    weird, sounded great on my air guitar
    I love those guitars for their airy sound

  11. #660

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    A question for the Barry Harris players here.


    When you improvise, what % of what you play is BH derived and what is other stuff?

    Pete Martin - just a mandolin guy but loves jazz guitar
    www.PetimarPress.com
    Www.Jazz-Mandolin.com

  12. #661

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petimar View Post
    A question for the Barry Harris players here.


    When you improvise, what % of what you play is BH derived and what is other stuff?


    Crazy question... no matter if it about BH or any other teacher.

    Barry teaches language... teaches idiomatic things.

    You can use his stuff to 'imitate' bop through the tune. It can help you out.

    But it is not music, not improvization... it will show in your plying of course but how would you measure it? It is all you...

  13. #662

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    Crazy question... no matter if it about BH or any other teacher.

    Barry teaches language... teaches idiomatic things.

    You can use his stuff to 'imitate' bop through the tune. It can help you out.

    But it is not music, not improvization... it will show in your plying of course but how would you measure it? It is all you...
    Barry doesn't teach you how to imitate bop he teaches you how to play it. The whole point of what he teaches and how he does it is to show you how to improvise by putting small things together.

    If you have been to any of his workshops you would know that he doesn't teach set things. In his improvisation workshops, the way it works is you transcribe in real time what Barry is singing out to you over a song he decides. He's creating the music in front of you and expects you to play it back to him.

  14. #663

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petimar View Post
    A question for the Barry Harris players here.


    When you improvise, what % of what you play is BH derived and what is other stuff?

    The point is, we take the small things Barry harris talks about on the scales and on the chords and triads, and we work on those things until it's apart of our playing. When I improvise I don't think 'okay on this chord I'm gonna play one of the things Barry said to play on this chord'. It would be impossible otherwise. The point of what Barry teaches is that you take those things and make them your own, and then eventually it will come out in your playing.

    He is teaching one way to improvise he isn't teaching you to play what he would play.

    I think that's where people get lost.

  15. #664

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_oz View Post
    The point is, we take the small things Barry harris talks about on the scales and on the chords and triads, and we work on those things until it's apart of our playing. When I improvise I don't think 'okay on this chord I'm gonna play one of the things Barry said to play on this chord'. It would be impossible otherwise. The point of what Barry teaches is that you take those things and make them your own, and then eventually it will come out in your playing.

    He is teaching one way to improvise he isn't teaching you to play what he would play.

    I think that's where people get lost.
    It is a bit irrelevant to what I said, man.. it looks like you took out one word 'imitating' from my post and focused on it.

    Maybe because I did not express myself clearly. So could be my fault... But honestly it seems that careful reading (and wiritng) what save us from lot of misunderstandin

    My post was an answer to a very strange question above...

    I answered litterally:

    Barry teaches language... teaches idiomatic things.

    You can use his stuff to 'imitate' bop through the tune. It can help you out.

    But it is not music, not improvization... it will show in your plying of course but how would you measure it? It is all you...



    Try to read consequently and you will see that there is nothing that contradicts what you said especially if you put it in context of the previous question about 'percentage of BH in your playing'.

    I did not say 'he teaches to imitate' right? I said 'you can use it to imitate'
    I did not say that what he 'teaches is not music or improvization'... 'I said that when you use it to imitate it is'not music, not improvization'
    and so on....

  16. #665

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    It is a bit irrelevant to what I said, man.. it looks like you took out one word 'imitating' from my post and focused on it.

    Maybe because I did not express myself clearly. So could be my fault... But honestly it seems that careful reading (and wiritng) what save us from lot of misunderstandin

    My post was an answer to a very strange question above...

    I answered litterally:

    Barry teaches language... teaches idiomatic things.

    You can use his stuff to 'imitate' bop through the tune. It can help you out.

    But it is not music, not improvization... it will show in your plying of course but how would you measure it? It is all you...



    Try to read consequently and you will see that there is nothing that contradicts what you said especially if you put it in context of the previous question about 'percentage of BH in your playing'.

    I did not say 'he teaches to imitate' right? I said 'you can use it to imitate'
    I did not say that what he 'teaches is not music or improvization'... 'I said that when you use it to imitate it is'not music, not improvization'
    and so on....
    If what I said is irrelevant then what you said is kind of irrelevant to the question Petimar asked in the first place

  17. #666

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    I don’t recognise Barry’s teaching in the description Jonah gave.

  18. #667
    petimar, not ?a stupid question. I agree woth Donald Osmond in post #668
    White belt
    My Youtube

  19. #668

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    Re: Pettimar.

    Accountancy is a useful skill for tax returns, not the creative process.

  20. #669

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    I have calculated it at 28.73% currently. However this rate is forecast to increase annually in line with the Retail Price Index over the next 5 years.

  21. #670

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_oz View Post
    ... When I improvise I don't think 'okay on this chord I'm gonna play one of the things Barry said to play on this chord'.
    The real question, however would be ...

    When you improvise, freely, in your own way, not thinking about lessons and methods, does it ever occur to you, immediately after you've played something, or later in analysis: "Hey, that thing I played, that was the thing I've learned from BH.", or "If there was not for BH, I would never have played that.", or something on those lines?
    ^ ^ ^
    <<< My BlogSpot Page >>>
    v v v

  22. #671

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    The real question, however would be ...

    When you improvise, freely, in your own way, not thinking about lessons and methods, does it ever occur to you, immediately after you've played something, or later in analysis: "Hey, that thing I played, that was the thing I've learned from BH.", or "If there was not for BH, I would never have played that.", or something on those lines?
    Frequently.

  23. #672

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    I have calculated it at 28.73% currently. However this rate is forecast to increase annually in line with the Retail Price Index over the next 5 years.
    So what you are saying is, a No Deal Brexit may improve your command of Min6-dim applications?

  24. #673

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    The real question, however would be ...

    When you improvise, freely, in your own way, not thinking about lessons and methods, does it ever occur to you, immediately after you've played something, or later in analysis: "Hey, that thing I played, that was the thing I've learned from BH.", or "If there was not for BH, I would never have played that.", or something on those lines?
    Well that's more of the right line of thinking. I practice the small things he talks about. 5432, Pivoting, half step rules on dominants, running the family of dominants into each other, the thirds, arpeggios. When those things eventually come out, then I can say 'oh I just played that Barry harris concept I spent so long practicing'. But to think like that when you're trying to make music is kind of impossible and I wouldn't bother wasting time thinking oh that's something I learnt from Barry. Barry wouldn't want you to do that. He'd want you just to play the hell out of the song.
    Last edited by don_oz; 12-21-2018 at 02:11 PM.

  25. #674

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    My question was aimed at DECIDING how you want to sound and was also aimed at how you PRACTICE to get that sound. Therefore deciding what to spend your time working on.

    For example, do I want to sound 100% BH (Im not saying sound LIKE Barry, but100% using his approach).

    Do I want to sound 20% BH and 80% me?

    The reason I ask is this is actually what Im trying to detrmine right now, and it DOES influence what I practice.

    Just asking for opinions. If you think this is a stupid question, just dont answer.
    Pete Martin - just a mandolin guy but loves jazz guitar
    www.PetimarPress.com
    Www.Jazz-Mandolin.com

  26. #675

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    One thing I have to admit that my post #666 (nice number!) was a result of an idle afternoon in front of a computer.. when I could not play guitar at the moment... and too exhausted to do anything else... more fruitful.

  27. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by Petimar View Post
    My question was aimed at DECIDING how you want to sound and was also aimed at how you PRACTICE to get that sound. Therefore deciding what to spend your time working on.

    For example, do I want to sound 100% BH (Im not saying sound LIKE Barry, but100% using his approach).

    Do I want to sound 20% BH and 80% me?

    The reason I ask is this is actually what Im trying to detrmine right now, and it DOES influence what I practice.

    Just asking for opinions. If you think this is a stupid question, just dont answer.
    Hmm. Aside from tunes, my technical practice has been 100% Barry Harris stuff for the last few years. Everything is pretty much practiced like sequences, but in my playing they don't show up that way...ever really.

    What it has done is made it easy to use chromatics rhythmically correctly, how to navigate through a tune, Hitting chord tones ("turning out right") in the right place without just playing arpeggios, able to just play infinitely within one scale, 7th intervals from pivoting etc... So I practice these things, but they don't come out how I practice them (specific licks, sequences etc). very small snippets of things.

    edit: what I want though is more bebop phrases in my playing, but they don't come too naturally (it's still like "ok, bebop phrase GO!")
    White belt
    My Youtube

  28. #677

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    So what you are saying is, a No Deal Brexit may improve your command of Min6-dim applications?
    As long as there is no danger of a hard bop border.

  29. #678

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petimar View Post
    My question was aimed at DECIDING how you want to sound and was also aimed at how you PRACTICE to get that sound. Therefore deciding what to spend your time working on.

    For example, do I want to sound 100% BH (Im not saying sound LIKE Barry, but100% using his approach).

    Do I want to sound 20% BH and 80% me?

    The reason I ask is this is actually what Im trying to detrmine right now, and it DOES influence what I practice.

    Just asking for opinions. If you think this is a stupid question, just dont answer.
    Actually my somewhat flippant answer of 28.73% was probably not far off the mark, in terms of how much time I spend practising the ‘harmonic’ method, and how much of it creeps into my playing of chords, comping, solo guitar etc.

    As for the improvisation (single-note) method, I’ve only just started investigating that, so not using it much yet.

  30. #679

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    As long as there is no danger of a hard bop border.
    Indeed... We must ensure the free movement of chords.

  31. #680

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petimar View Post
    My question was aimed at DECIDING how you want to sound and was also aimed at how you PRACTICE to get that sound. Therefore deciding what to spend your time working on.

    For example, do I want to sound 100% BH (Im not saying sound LIKE Barry, but100% using his approach).

    Do I want to sound 20% BH and 80% me?

    The reason I ask is this is actually what Im trying to detrmine right now, and it DOES influence what I practice.

    Just asking for opinions. If you think this is a stupid question, just dont answer.
    If you ask 'how much Barry do you practice' I would say that's an easier question to answer.

    So about 1-3 years ago, maybe 80%... Now, a bit less, maybe 25-33%. (There's a big concept I am trying to get into my playing that isn't Barry related, and it is taking properly forever. Also I am practicing melodies and songs a lot, by ear, which is certainly not against the Barry ethos of music, so maybe it counts?)

    When I play a gig, whatever comes out comes out. A fairly large amount of this will be fairly 'canned' material that probably ended up in my playing at one point or another...

    It's my personal suspicion that about 80% of what I play is Barry derived solo wise on a straight-ahead gig, but I have no real easy way of knowing. That material has usurped a lot of the 'older' licks I had.... But that material is not Barry Harris licks - it's material I derived myself from the principles he taught me.

    Took a while to get that way.

    Comping? Less, I would say. I do a lot of 6-dim stuff when playing rhythm in a swing band etc.... Less so when comping in a modern group.

  32. #681

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    I have never been in Barry's masterclass and will hardly ever be (not because I do not want it is just very little chance for me to ever be there in the right place and time).
    Nevertheless I spent already sometime with his soloing conception and harmonic conception using materials available in the internet - thanks to you guys and all those who share... and also to Alan's book... I think having enough musical expreience behind, good ear and decent technique you can actually learn many things from it yourself... I am not only getting familiar with it, I really practice it. And I will keep it up.

    The more I do it the more I admire wit, taste and invention that Barry shows in his approach and how integral it is ..
    more integral than any other jazz approach I came across.

    I also really appreciate that he does not make a book out of it - there is something really true to style in it!
    (actually Barry reminds very much my classical harmony teacher I had as a kid - the same musicality and practical approach to everything (sit at piano and play, try, quote - but this is classical) at the same time absolutely unorthodoxal and personal theiretic too...)

    When I practice his stuff I realy enjoy how it opens up and feels.
    I immidiately see different dimemsions, directions and possibilities and this is very enjoyable thing to explore.
    I fin that I already 'knew' many things but the way he puts them is really musical and beautiful.
    I probably practice it a bit more free than I would if I were in classes.

    But on the other hand...
    the more I am into it the more suspicious I get... why.. what does it all move to actually? Not for myself... but in general... what is this all about?
    But really... there is something behind it (NOT IN IT, but behind it) that seems too comfortable and safe, too universal, too correct.. and this secure feeling is not what I realate to the idea of jazz music...

    Dont' tell me that each one can use it the way he wants and it depends on the student and so on. First it is obvious..
    Second...
    From dozens of his followers I believe only a few have real potential to treat this material with enough indiviuality to overcome it.

    Please, do not shoot at me.. it is not crititcs or negative impression.

    But I think I have the right to throw in some kind of philosophy into it? i mean where this whole thing is going to...

    If you do not care about it it is ok too of course!

    I hope you see what I mean... it is not critique but it is more about what will it make a jazz scene like if it is getting really influential? Just wondering...

    And what is jazz then...

    I mean I mentioned my classical teacher when I was a kid... how Barry reminds me of him.. but it was classical... it was about music that was all written long ago.. it was NOT about writing your own new original music... though it might help... if you.. yes if you stay within this tradition... and have enough talent to be real and alive now within such a long and old tradition...
    Also it is great if you want to become practicing musical historian - as my teacher was... greatest musical historian ever.. practical historian... is it what it is?
    you see what I mean?
    Or am I too discreet in expression of my ideas?

  33. #682

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    Barry Harris’ playing seems “too comfortable and safe, too correct” and “not jazz”?

    Then this is definitely not your thing. No point wasting your time with this. There are lots of other styles. Maybe “free jazz”?

    The point of this thread is that some of us admire Barry’s playing and appreciate the efforts he goes to explaining it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  34. #683

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    Barry Harris’ playing seems “too comfortable and safe, too correct” and “not jazz”?

    Then this is definitely not your thing. No point wasting your time with this. There are lots of other styles. Maybe “free jazz”?

    The point of this thread is that some of us admire Barry’s playing and appreciate the efforts he goes to explaining it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Don't put that crap into my mouth. I did not say anything about Barry Harris's playing.
    And I did not ask your advice.
    I always knew what my thing is and what it not, and never had to ask anyone. And did not ask this time too.

  35. #684

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    Boy you are awfully delicate.

    What was the point of your post? No one asked your opinion, but that didn’t stop you. Maybe read your own post. If it isn’t about Barry Harris’ playing, then what did you think you were talking about? The point of Barry Harris’ teaching is to teach how to play like him. What were you doing?

    Either you don’t think Barry playing style is worth learning, bellyaching that his teaching wasn’t working for you, or trying to tell us that it wasn’t working for us because we lacked your vision. Which was it? because I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the least self absorbed and self reflective meaning.

    You can post on a long thread about Barry Harris that you don’t feel it works for you, fine. No one asked, but no one can stop you. But it is a rough Internet for you if you get all tears and offended at the first response that didn’t praise you glowingly for your thoughts.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  36. #685

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    Boy you are awfully delicate.

    What was the point of your post? No one asked your opinion, but that didn’t stop you. Maybe read your own post. If it isn’t about Barry Harris’ playing, then what did you think you were talking about? The point of Barry Harris’ teaching is to teach how to play like him. What were you doing?

    Either you don’t think Barry playing style is worth learning, bellyaching that his teaching wasn’t working for you, or trying to tell us that it wasn’t working for us because we lacked your vision. Which was it? because I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the least self absorbed and self reflective meaning.

    You can post on a long thread about Barry Harris that you don’t feel it works for you, fine. No one asked, but no one can stop you. But it is a rough Internet for you if you get all tears and offended at the first response that didn’t praise you glowingly for your thoughts.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I am not offended. I am excited!
    I just show you where your real place is and what you really are.
    What I wrote was real thought, what you wrote was mediocre internet cliches that do not deserve dicussion.
    I just take some pleasure in pointing it from time to time.
    Lately I felt I do not like wasting my time and find ignore button extremely helpful.
    You gave me chance to use it once again!

  37. #686

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    If you find the ignore button extremely....try the door!!

    P.S
    I'll give you another chance to use the ignore button.
    "Ahhh - those Jazz guys are just makin' that stuff up!" - Homer Simpson

    "Anyone who understands Jazz knows that you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it." - Yogi Berra

  38. #687

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    Quote Originally Posted by edh View Post
    If you find the ignore button extremely....try the door!!

    P.S
    I'll give you another chance to use the ignore button.
    Thanks for chance! But I choose myself!

    Really my post could be disturbing provocative but it is thoughtful, thought can be tight, and it can make people feel nervous.
    Answering it the way it was treated here 1000 years ago would have meant interdict and bonfire (good golden days!). Today it seems like just thinking itself means immidiate interdiction.

    I never insulted anyone in it, even mentioning Barry Harris was full of respect. But I was immidiately taught and explained what I think and who am I.

    If one reads it carefully he will probably see that it concerns mostly the essential thing about jazz playing an education, about understanding jazz as a style and it is cultural role and place as a living or dead language.

    It is long? Yes, I type faster than I speak. But it is f*** fun.

    If you do not want genral speculations no problem..
    but if you want to teach me.. do not expect I will miss a chance to tear you apart! That's fun for me too! Next to thinking in writing form!

    As for 'ignore button' - this is fantastic advantage of the Internet I love to use!
    With age this kind of thing becomes more and more important.

  39. #688

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    I have never been in Barry's masterclass and will hardly ever be (not because I do not want it is just very little chance for me to ever be there in the right place and time).
    Nevertheless I spent already sometime with his soloing conception and harmonic conception using materials available in the internet - thanks to you guys and all those who share... and also to Alan's book... I think having enough musical expreience behind, good ear and decent technique you can actually learn many things from it yourself... I am not only getting familiar with it, I really practice it. And I will keep it up.

    The more I do it the more I admire wit, taste and invention that Barry shows in his approach and how integral it is ..
    more integral than any other jazz approach I came across.

    I also really appreciate that he does not make a book out of it - there is something really true to style in it!
    (actually Barry reminds very much my classical harmony teacher I had as a kid - the same musicality and practical approach to everything (sit at piano and play, try, quote - but this is classical) at the same time absolutely unorthodoxal and personal theiretic too...)

    When I practice his stuff I realy enjoy how it opens up and feels.
    I immidiately see different dimemsions, directions and possibilities and this is very enjoyable thing to explore.
    I fin that I already 'knew' many things but the way he puts them is really musical and beautiful.
    I probably practice it a bit more free than I would if I were in classes.

    But on the other hand...
    the more I am into it the more suspicious I get... why.. what does it all move to actually? Not for myself... but in general... what is this all about?
    But really... there is something behind it (NOT IN IT, but behind it) that seems too comfortable and safe, too universal, too correct.. and this secure feeling is not what I realate to the idea of jazz music...

    Dont' tell me that each one can use it the way he wants and it depends on the student and so on. First it is obvious..
    Second...
    From dozens of his followers I believe only a few have real potential to treat this material with enough indiviuality to overcome it.

    Please, do not shoot at me.. it is not crititcs or negative impression.

    But I think I have the right to throw in some kind of philosophy into it? i mean where this whole thing is going to...

    If you do not care about it it is ok too of course!

    I hope you see what I mean... it is not critique but it is more about what will it make a jazz scene like if it is getting really influential? Just wondering...

    And what is jazz then...

    I mean I mentioned my classical teacher when I was a kid... how Barry reminds me of him.. but it was classical... it was about music that was all written long ago.. it was NOT about writing your own new original music... though it might help... if you.. yes if you stay within this tradition... and have enough talent to be real and alive now within such a long and old tradition...
    Also it is great if you want to become practicing musical historian - as my teacher was... greatest musical historian ever.. practical historian... is it what it is?
    you see what I mean?
    Or am I too discreet in expression of my ideas?
    I think there is some truth to this. Still working it out .

  40. #689

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    Boy you are awfully delicate.

    What was the point of your post? No one asked your opinion, but that didn’t stop you. Maybe read your own post. If it isn’t about Barry Harris’ playing, then what did you think you were talking about? The point of Barry Harris’ teaching is to teach how to play like him. What were you doing?

    Either you don’t think Barry playing style is worth learning, bellyaching that his teaching wasn’t working for you, or trying to tell us that it wasn’t working for us because we lacked your vision. Which was it? because I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the least self absorbed and self reflective meaning.

    You can post on a long thread about Barry Harris that you don’t feel it works for you, fine. No one asked, but no one can stop you. But it is a rough Internet for you if you get all tears and offended at the first response that didn’t praise you glowingly for your thoughts.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Eh?

    You blatantly put words in Jonah’s mouth. It’s very annoying when I get that down to me, I’m sure you feel the same.

  41. #690
    yo ok anyway, here's something Alan e-mailed me a couple weeks ago that probably could have been a whole other chapter in his book.

    He said "Every time you pickup a guitar play this for 30 seconds."

    I/Root I7/3rd IV #ivdim7 I

    Then descending

    I/Root I7/7th IV/3rd iv/3rd I

    So that's what he told me. in the first progression I've been playing:

    I6 I7/3rd IV7 #ivdim7 I6/5th

    second one I've been doing:

    I6 I7/7th IV6/3rd iv6/3rd I6/5th

    Then, I started subbing while keeping the bass line intact.

    I've been doing this for all drop 2 and drop 3 string sets. Next, I plan on taking that bass line and putting it in each voice (soprano, alto, tenor) and keep it intact. Haven't got there yet.

    So, obviously this is bars 5 & 6 in rhythm changes. By playing this progression 1,594 times I made the minor discovery that it is exactly bars 1 & 2 of the blues.

    There's really cool stuff to be found by keeping that line intact and borrowing/subbing in other voices
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  42. #691

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    yo ok anyway, here's something Alan e-mailed me a couple weeks ago that probably could have been a whole other chapter in his book.

    He said "Every time you pickup a guitar play this for 30 seconds."

    I/Root I7/3rd IV #ivdim7 I

    Then descending

    I/Root I7/7th IV/3rd iv/3rd I

    So that's what he told me. in the first progression I've been playing:

    I6 I7/3rd IV7 #ivdim7 I6/5th

    second one I've been doing:

    I6 I7/7th IV6/3rd iv6/3rd I6/5th

    Then, I started subbing while keeping the bass line intact.

    I've been doing this for all drop 2 and drop 3 string sets. Next, I plan on taking that bass line and putting it in each voice (soprano, alto, tenor) and keep it intact. Haven't got there yet.

    So, obviously this is bars 5 & 6 in rhythm changes. By playing this progression 1,594 times I made the minor discovery that it is exactly bars 1 & 2 of the blues.

    There's really cool stuff to be found by keeping that line intact and borrowing/subbing in other voices
    Right, cos everyone need to know how to get from the I to the IV.
    Any chance you can show us a video of that exercise. Sometimes I can’t fully grasp the full idea just by reading the text...

    Cheets.

  43. #692
    Quote Originally Posted by tamirgal View Post
    Right, cos everyone need to know how to get from the I to the IV.
    Any chance you can show us a video of that exercise. Sometimes I can’t fully grasp the full idea just by reading the text...

    Cheets.
    It's the least I could do after all the info you've offered here. I'll make one next time I have more than a few minutes to practice
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  44. #693

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    It's the least I could do after all the info you've offered here. I'll make one next time I have more than a few minutes to practice
    Cool. Thanks

  45. #694

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    Right, cos everyone need to know how to get from the I to the IV.
    Any chance you can show us a video of that exercise. Sometimes I can’t fully grasp the full idea just by reading the text...
    I do not quite get the idea for joe's description..

    but here to me original changes look more like just playing around I - it's movement on static chord..

    I mean exactly here... if exapnded for several bars it may sound like blues as joe says

    But here it sound just like it is always I - just shifting within it... IV does not happen to have its own world as in teh blues first bars for example

  46. #695
    It's I-IV-I like in bars 5 and 6 of rhythm changes, or bars 1 and 2 of the blues. 2 beats per chord
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  47. #696

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    It's I-IV-I like in bars 5 and 6 of rhythm changes, or bars 1 and 2 of the blues. 2 beats per chord
    Ah.. So 2 beats per chord is psrt of the excersise?

    And what's the idea behind it? I mean the turnaround itslef is common...

  48. #697

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    I appreciate all the comments offered from folks here. Every experienced player has ideas about things and I like to hear them.

    Ive decided I want to move forward with my own way of doing things with a good dose of Barry influence thrown in. Thanks for helping, knowing what to practice is now much easier...
    Pete Martin - just a mandolin guy but loves jazz guitar
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  49. #698

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    So here’s literally how ive been practicing in all voicings and keys. here i am doing drop 3 in G
    1. bass lines
    2. bass lines with chords
    3. I consider subs that have the same bass note (related doms, b5 dom, tritones minor in this case. i also toy with the 5th on the 6th at the end of the 6th-string-bass section.
    4. i move on to the 5th-string-bass and improvise a little melody using borrowed notes. keep bass line intact.
    5. Here i end the video and would have started a new key and or voicing such as drop 2

    again, i didnt prepare anything this is what it looks like as i practice
    so it is just a type of changes with bass movement chosen to excersise?

    I suppose you can basically take any conventional turnaround in any more or less conventionl voicings just for practice.. right?

    I am just trying to figure out if there is something special behind this choice.. some idea I miss to get maybe...
    (yes I think too much as usually, my teacher always told me: just play this excercise, don't think why... I used to say: I can't.. even before I started playing I alread had understood where it would lead to... it seems boring to play now))) )

  50. #699
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    so it is just a type of changes with bass movement chosen to excersise?

    I suppose you can basically take any conventional turnaround in any more or less conventionl voicings just for practice.. right?

    I am just trying to figure out if there is something special behind this choice.. some idea I miss to get maybe...
    (yes I think too much as usually, my teacher always told me: just play this excercise, don't think why... I used to say: I can't.. even before I started playing I alread had understood where it would lead to... it seems boring to play now))) )

    I'm not really comfortable in a teaching role, more just passing things along as I go. It's a true teachers job to decide how much to say directly (what the point of an exercise is for example) and how much to let the student work out.

    I think our goals are different, I'm more of a traditionalist. Sounds like you're looking for new and exciting concepts? Maybe I'm wrong?

    I'm a different type of student than you, I just put faith in my teachers and practice what they tell me. I discover the "why" along the way. That keeps me from the trap of understanding something and then getting the false impression that I can automatically play it. That was my problem in highschool, I thought once I got the concept that's all I needed. Then I figured out I couldn't play any of it in any real context.

    So when Alan told me the simple exercise, I thought "hmm, why is this important? of all the things he could tell me practice every day, why would he pick this one?" The difference here is I didn't ask Allen the reason why, I just got to work.

    Since he was specifying inversions, that was my clue that main point was a bass line. I played the bass line and thought "oh it's that old chestnut I hear everywhere." Then as I played more I thought "oh that movement is why we play IV to iv or IV to #iv dim." Then I thought "what can I do to create with this?"

    Sure, you can play any space age chord anywhere you want, but having guidelines rooted in the tradition of the past keeps us grounded and within a certain style (which is what I like). I have more than enough freedom to create.

    Sorry if this completely danced around your question
    Last edited by joe2758; 12-27-2018 at 11:30 AM.
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  51. #700

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    It's called the "walk up" (by me) works in many situations (last 4 of "St. Thomas" is another well known example). It's a good vamp too.

    Bars 5-8 Rhythm Changes
    | C C7/E | F F#dim | C6/G A7 | D-7 G7 ||

    Bars 1 - 4 blues
    || C7 C7/E | F7 F#dim | C7/G | C7 Gb7 |
    |F7 | F7 | I IV7 | iii7 VI7 |
    | ii7 | V7 | I VI7 | ii7 V7 :||