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  1. #601

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_oz View Post
    look at that horn line up.

    But check who's on the piano!

    Rubbish! Where’s Kenny G? ;-)

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #602

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Rubbish! Where’s Kenny G? ;-)
    Apparently shedding coltrane...

    Kenny G - Just a rapid fire sax sesh with some great licks...[0]=68.ARDQ1r7pG8ZS5GZQrkWjsuFDdfyLtaSFu9hHJZZxT-68D3_lsrT6IKGD14BAufC4y27r0sQYpzjm8RPkYpczLCqwCCwD BcdSd3f285JY202vKZjbiNtsAZJuEpnGeTP9GJQrcKRrb2fib8 umHukpn7qKcPd2WzCqMBFvRqrbapNhFJhhEVXPfZ24fmZiaPK3 qG-4jGnaGZEYoiQ0hw&__tn__=FC-R

  4. #603

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_oz View Post
    Apparently shedding coltrane...

    Kenny G - Just a rapid fire sax sesh with some great licks...[0]=68.ARDQ1r7pG8ZS5GZQrkWjsuFDdfyLtaSFu9hHJZZxT-68D3_lsrT6IKGD14BAufC4y27r0sQYpzjm8RPkYpczLCqwCCwD BcdSd3f285JY202vKZjbiNtsAZJuEpnGeTP9GJQrcKRrb2fib8 umHukpn7qKcPd2WzCqMBFvRqrbapNhFJhhEVXPfZ24fmZiaPK3 qG-4jGnaGZEYoiQ0hw&__tn__=FC-R
    That’s Kenny G? I thought it’s Scott Henderson

  5. #604

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    There have been a couple of great threads lately on two note chords/comping. Usually it is the "guide tones", 3rd & 7th. Using the dim/6 chord scales, what would the two note chords be? How would you move up the chord scale with just two "guide tones"? What about dominants if you are using the min6 on the 5th? Anyone have examples or fingerings to show? I'm sure this is all very obvious, but I'm getting myself all confused and my fingers all twisted up.

  6. #605

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    I think you’d want to start from 3rd and 6th so try using any of the scales in Alan’s book which can give you those 2 notes on either the middle 2 strings, or on strings 4 and 5, then just ignore the other notes in the chord shape, and try playing the whole scale like that. But I haven’t tried it myself, possibly it may not work that well or sound right.

  7. #606

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    For example try playing the chord scales on page 10 of Alan's book, but only play the middle 2 notes of each chord. I tried it and it sounds ok to me.

    In fact this is really the same thing as playing 'Freddie Green' chords without the 6th string. Which I believe is similar to how Freddie tended to play them himself (i.e. he did not always 'sound' the 6th string).

  8. #607

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    Major 6th Diminished Harmonized in Dyads:

    C D
    D E
    E F
    F G
    G Ab
    Ab A
    A B
    B C

    C E
    D F
    E G
    F Ab
    G A
    Ab B
    A C
    B D

    C F
    D G
    E Ab
    F A
    G B
    Ab C
    A D
    B E

    C G
    D Ab
    E A
    F B
    G C
    Ab D
    A E
    B F

    C Ab
    D A
    E B
    F C
    G D
    Ab E
    A F
    B G

    C A
    D B
    E C
    F D
    G E
    Ab F
    A G
    B Ab

    C B
    D C
    E D
    F E
    G F
    Ab G
    A Ab
    B A

  9. #608

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    4th str/3rd str:

    d/ab - e/a - f/b - g/c - ab/d -
    - a/e - b/f - c/g - d/ab ...

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  10. #609

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    So the consensus seems to be a pattern of P4th, P5th, and tirones. That seems to work with the 4/5 string set as well.

    I guess I was stuck on trying to imply the C6 in every dyad. I couldn’t figure it out. You guys helped me see that In isolation some of these sound pretty ambiguous, but I think that playing them in context as “movement” it will retain its tonal sense. For example, if you linger on A/E it doesn’t really scream that you are playing a C6. But working the A/E -> B/F -> C/G does.

    At least that’s my story, and I’m sticking with it! ;-) I’ll have to shed this a little and mix it in to Tim Lerch’s dyad material to see what my ears tell me.


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  11. #610

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    I am no Barry Harris expert, just a decent interval cruncher.

    The dyad columns in my last post that begin with Cma6 chord tones: C E, C G, C A
    These alternate between Cma6 and Bo7 similar to playing various drop voicings through the scale.
    The columns that begin with C D, C F, C Ab, C B contain a lower note from either Cma6 or Bo7 and
    an upper note from the other. A borrowed note.

  12. #611

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    In isolation some of these sound pretty ambiguous, but I think that playing them in context as “movement” it will retain its tonal sense. For example, if you linger on A/E it doesn’t really scream that you are playing a C6. But working the A/E -> B/F -> C/G does.
    Barry stresses that harmony is horizontal, not vertical.

    He put it succinctly during his recent visit to Toronto: "As you mess with the scale you end up with movement."

  13. #612

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    I would also be interested in this two note chord concept as it would be good for fast tempos or phrases.

    -Max

  14. #613

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    Quote Originally Posted by bako View Post
    I am no Barry Harris expert, just a decent interval cruncher.

    The dyad columns in my last post that begin with Cma6 chord tones: C E, C G, C A
    These alternate between Cma6 and Bo7 similar to playing various drop voicings through the scale.
    The columns that begin with C D, C F, C Ab, C B contain a lower note from either Cma6 or Bo7 and
    an upper note from the other. A borrowed note.
    It is an interesting idea. I’ll definitely shed some of these. I don’t know how well some of those work for comping another player, and playing a 2nd or 7th on adjacent strings may not be practical. But there might be some gems to mine from mechanically exploring every interval and working it through the scale.


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  15. #614

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  16. #615

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Christian, after working a few years ago on many different approaches to dealing with those chromatic ascents - the one you canvas here of playing continuous 'long' scales and using two different fingerings from neighbouring positions - a friend of mine, an incredible pianist/organist, musical theorist and, as it happens, extremely knowledgeable about all things BH, shared a brilliant discovery he'd made.

    If you take out the common notes from each of the two ascending parent major scales at the opening of Moment's Notice ('D' & 'G' from Dmajor and Ebmajor), you're left with two DESCENDING major pentatonics: A major and Ab major! Of course, this can work in reverse with the more commonly occurring descending forms. Quite an ear opener!

  17. #616

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    There have been a couple of great threads lately on two note chords/comping. Usually it is the "guide tones", 3rd & 7th. Using the dim/6 chord scales, what would the two note chords be? How would you move up the chord scale with just two "guide tones"? What about dominants if you are using the min6 on the 5th? Anyone have examples or fingerings to show? I'm sure this is all very obvious, but I'm getting myself all confused and my fingers all twisted up.

    Moving 3rds is how we would on piano
    Studied privately with Mark Levine from 1986-1989 and with Barry Harris 1990-1992.

  18. #617

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMB View Post

    If you take out the common notes from each of the two ascending parent major scales at the opening of Moment's Notice ('D' & 'G' from Dmajor and Ebmajor), you're left with two DESCENDING major pentatonics: A major and Ab major! Of course, this can work in reverse with the more commonly occurring descending forms. Quite an ear opener!
    that's good stuff. i do similar things in stablemates. G to Ab.

    a lot of fun with this stuff can be had on GS. Bmaj Cmaj /Gmaj Abmaj/ etc.

    another funny one: Bmaj pent Cmaj pent, Bm pent Cm pent (then maybe even Dm pent for the Ebj)

  19. #618

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMB View Post
    Christian, after working a few years ago on many different approaches to dealing with those chromatic ascents - the one you canvas here of playing continuous 'long' scales and using two different fingerings from neighbouring positions - a friend of mine, an incredible pianist/organist, musical theorist and, as it happens, extremely knowledgeable about all things BH, shared a brilliant discovery he'd made.

    If you take out the common notes from each of the two ascending parent major scales at the opening of Moment's Notice ('D' & 'G' from Dmajor and Ebmajor), you're left with two DESCENDING major pentatonics: A major and Ab major! Of course, this can work in reverse with the more commonly occurring descending forms. Quite an ear opener!
    I’ll give it a go - try to remember next time I can pick up a guitar.

  20. #619

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    Quote Originally Posted by djg View Post
    that's good stuff. i do similar things in stablemates. G to Ab.

    a lot of fun with this stuff can be had on GS. Bmaj Cmaj /Gmaj Abmaj/ etc.

    another funny one: Bmaj pent Cmaj pent, Bm pent Cm pent (then maybe even Dm pent for the Ebj)

    Along Came Betty is another Golson tune that opens with ascending chromatic ii-vs. They weren't originally in Stablemates but BG heard a performance where they were used and he liked the sound enough to add them soon after.

  21. #620

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMB View Post
    Along Came Betty is another Golson tune that opens with ascending chromatic ii-vs. They weren't originally in Stablemates but BG heard a performance where they were used and he liked the sound enough to add them soon after.
    yes, i think Bb7+ is the original change?

  22. #621

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    Maybe, either that or simply Eb-7 Ab7 over two bars.

  23. #622

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    There have been a couple of great threads lately on two note chords/comping. Usually it is the "guide tones", 3rd & 7th. Using the dim/6 chord scales, what would the two note chords be? How would you move up the chord scale with just two "guide tones"? What about dominants if you are using the min6 on the 5th? Anyone have examples or fingerings to show? I'm sure this is all very obvious, but I'm getting myself all confused and my fingers all twisted up.

    3rds
    Studied privately with Mark Levine from 1986-1989 and with Barry Harris 1990-1992.

  24. #623

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMB View Post
    Maybe, either that or simply Eb-7 Ab7 over two bars.
    Yeah that works too. But if you do the sideslip thing a BIT, people will think you do it all the time.

    I see the changes thing as being able to dial the levels of detail up and down according to the needs of the soloist.

  25. #624

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    ... Barry Harris ... his influence - and Bud Powell ...
    Can anyone please explain to me the connection of Barry Harris' method to developing oneself specifically as a Bebop player?

    Oh, that's just a catch phrase, sorry. Of course Barry Harris is often associated with BeBop style and his methos is also most of the time presented as a '(sure?) way to BeBop land'.

    However I wonder about the following. Chris mentioned that he hears Barry Harris' "influences" in Bud Powell's lines. Or is it the other way round? That is Barry Harris was directly influenced by Bud Powell? Or, maybe they were hanging around in 1940-s and teaching each other BeBop that was invented by Charlie Parker?

    What I can't understand is what Barry Harris' method is in relation to BeBop. Does it depict the very essence of the style or does it go any further than the original BeBop style?
    If it's the first than there is obvious contradiction between the level of complexity of BeBop itself (which is not that complicated) and a sophisticated approach of Barry Harris that is supposed to open doors to the style. It looks like the approach is more sophisticated than the style itself.

    I mean people on this forum are often puzzled by Barry Harris' harmonic structures and even can't agree on whether all that 6th stuff has its place in single line playing or is it only for "harmony"?
    If BeBop was originally so complicated and the way to its understanding was paved through such a sophisticated method it wouldn't probably evolve at all. It would be stuck half-way between its conception and implementation.

    Oh, I'm not against Barry Harris' method and he's definitely an influential and great musician in all respects. I also see a big picture of his harmonic approach aimed at developing smoothness of voice leading while retaining the tension/resolution relationship between harmonies in a subtle and understated way.
    No question his method is great and useful in it's own right.

  26. #625

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    I always assumed Bud Powell came first, he was 5 years older than Barry and made his first recording in 1947 when Barry was only 18.

    I think if you watch all of the 'Things I learned from Barry Harris' videos posted by Chris on youtube they should answer most of these questions. Certainly they helped me see how the scales etc. can be developed into bebop lines. Bear in mind Barry tried to codify rules and scales to help people play bebop, it's going to be more formal and complicated than just doing it by ear (which is essentially what I've been doing all these years!). I can play lines similar to the ones Chris plays, but maybe I would have got there much quicker if I'd used Barry's method. Having said that, I do think you need to absorb the language from the records as well though, at least that's my opinion.

    Yes the sixth/dim stuff also has application to single note lines, I think that is demonstrated in one of Chris' videos.

  27. #626

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    Quote Originally Posted by VKat View Post
    Can anyone please explain to me the connection of Barry Harris' method to developing oneself specifically as a Bebop player?
    Can't be arsed, sorry.

    Do it or don't do it. See if it works for you.

  28. #627

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Can't be arsed, sorry.

    Do it or don't do it. See if it works for you.
    lol that's the short answer.

  29. #628

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    Quote Originally Posted by VKat View Post
    Can anyone please explain to me the connection of Barry Harris' method to developing oneself specifically as a Bebop player?

    Oh, that's just a catch phrase, sorry. Of course Barry Harris is often associated with BeBop style and his methos is also most of the time presented as a '(sure?) way to BeBop land'.

    However I wonder about the following. Chris mentioned that he hears Barry Harris' "influences" in Bud Powell's lines. Or is it the other way round? That is Barry Harris was directly influenced by Bud Powell? Or, maybe they were hanging around in 1940-s and teaching each other BeBop that was invented by Charlie Parker?

    What I can't understand is what Barry Harris' method is in relation to BeBop. Does it depict the very essence of the style or does it go any further than the original BeBop style?
    If it's the first than there is obvious contradiction between the level of complexity of BeBop itself (which is not that complicated) and a sophisticated approach of Barry Harris that is supposed to open doors to the style. It looks like the approach is more sophisticated than the style itself.

    I mean people on this forum are often puzzled by Barry Harris' harmonic structures and even can't agree on whether all that 6th stuff has its place in single line playing or is it only for "harmony"?
    If BeBop was originally so complicated and the way to its understanding was paved through such a sophisticated method it wouldn't probably evolve at all. It would be stuck half-way between its conception and implementation.

    Oh, I'm not against Barry Harris' method and he's definitely an influential and great musician in all respects. I also see a big picture of his harmonic approach aimed at developing smoothness of voice leading while retaining the tension/resolution relationship between harmonies in a subtle and understated way.
    No question his method is great and useful in it's own right.
    You can clearly tell Bud influenced Barry. Barry's method of teaching improvisation and harmony is just a way to cleanly deliver some of the things the greats were playing. Bud and Barry were good friends as was Barry and monk too. Barry just became good at teaching, every player you can think ofz he probably taught. Over time he developed a succinct and accessible way to showing people how to play Bebop and how to use chords and harmony to create movements and play chords/comp.

    Some of the shit Barry has you play in his workshops are other worldly. He makes you play notes you didn't know exist. The best thing to do is go all in, go to his workshops, watch all the YouTube videos he has of his workshops and you'll reap the rewards
    Last edited by don_oz; 11-10-2018 at 07:13 PM.

  30. #629
    osmond, where did you hear he was good friends with Bud? That's really cool, i had never heard that. Bud is all over the place in Barry's playing, and Barry sites Bud all the time ("Bud used to say this" etc)
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  31. #630

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    Im probably wrong here but hey that hasnt stopped me before

    I learned a lot of Charle Parker tunes and solos before I stumbled onto Barry Harris. What he teaches in 5 4 3 2, half step rules, pivoting, etc, is exactly what I saw in Parkers solos. It is a very organized way to practice to get it in your playing and it certainly has worked for me.

    Im not the biggest Bud fan, but when I hear him, I hear Birds language.
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  32. #631

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    osmond, where did you hear he was good friends with Bud? That's really cool, i had never heard that. Bud is all over the place in Barry's playing, and Barry sites Bud all the time ("Bud used to say this" etc)

    Howard Rees told me Bud took Barry under his wing. Of course Barry lived with Monk for about 10 years at Nica's house (where Barry still lives).

    I heard Barry say he'd be practicing at Nica's and if he played something interesting Monk who kept to his room would just stick his head out the door and look at Barry.

    An interesting photo book by Nica is available called Three Wishes. Some great off the job shots of the masters.

  33. #632

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    I’ve read a lot about Barry over the years and also about Bud. As far as I know although Bud was his biggest influence, Barry never met Bud.
    He did learn to play bebop as a teenager from listening to Bud and and Bird’s records, but when Barry moved to new york (~1960) Bud already moved to Paris.
    Barry went to see Bud play at the Birdland gigs in 1964 after he got back from Paris, but I don’t think Bud knew who Barry was. After that, Bud was in pretty bad shape and died in 1966.

    As Alan said, Barry was very close with Monk (in his later period), and they lived together for 10 years.

    I have Nica’s three wishes book, and that’s indeed a wonderful book. Looks like Barry and Nica were close as well.

  34. #633

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    I’ve never heard Barry mention personal contact with Bud. He did play with Bird once back in Detroit though?

  35. #634

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    Quote Originally Posted by tamirgal View Post
    I’ve read a lot about Barry over the years and also about Bud. As far as I know although Bud was his biggest influence, Barry never met Bud.
    He did. If you've read Francis Paudras' book, it describes his accompanying Powell back to New York after a long period in France. Barry was there in a group of top musicians waiting to welcome Powell on his arrival at Birdland.

    It's also described by Paudras in the liner notes to Return to Birdland '64.

    “There were two rows of men, face to face, on each side of the door. I recognized immediately many familiar faces. To the right in the front line, his face shining with joy, there was Bobby Timmons; next to him, Wynton Kelly, then Barry Harris, Kenny Dorham, Walter Davis, Walter Bishop, McCoy Tyner, Charles McPherson, Erroll Garner, Sam Jones, John Hicks, Billy Higgins, Lonnie Hillyer…there were others, but my memory fails me. Bud stopped short, and at that moment, we could hear discreet applause. Then he started walking toward the stairway, and at that precise instant, Bobby Timmons took his hand and kissed it discreetly. He was at once imitated by his neighbor and all the others with a kind of frenzied devotion… We went down the stairs escorted by this wonderful guard.”

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  36. #635
    wow!!! thanks for that fantastic quote
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  37. #636

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    Quote Originally Posted by David B View Post
    He did. If you've read Francis Paudras' book, it describes his accompanying Powell back to New York after a long period in France. Barry was there in a group of top musicians waiting to welcome Powell on his arrival at Birdland.

    It's also described by Paudras in the liner notes to Return to Birdland '64.

    “There were two rows of men, face to face, on each side of the door. I recognized immediately many familiar faces. To the right in the front line, his face shining with joy, there was Bobby Timmons; next to him, Wynton Kelly, then Barry Harris, Kenny Dorham, Walter Davis, Walter Bishop, McCoy Tyner, Charles McPherson, Erroll Garner, Sam Jones, John Hicks, Billy Higgins, Lonnie Hillyer…there were others, but my memory fails me. Bud stopped short, and at that moment, we could hear discreet applause. Then he started walking toward the stairway, and at that precise instant, Bobby Timmons took his hand and kissed it discreetly. He was at once imitated by his neighbor and all the others with a kind of frenzied devotion… We went down the stairs escorted by this wonderful guard.”
    Right. I believe that I mentioned that he was there at Birdland in 1964. But he was in the audience, I don’t believe Bud knew him.

  38. #637

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I’ve never heard Barry mention personal contact with Bud. He did play with Bird once back in Detroit though?
    Yes, he “sat in” with Bird as Barry puts it.

  39. #638

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    I’ve confused myself again, and need you fellows’ help sorting something out. I’m trying to relate BH harmony and the dim6 scale with what I believe is called “tonal” harmony (I’m 100% self taught, so I’m not always sure of the nomenclature, apologies in advance).

    I know BH says, “music isn’t 2-5’s”. But to my ear harmony seem still best described as tonic/rest -> sub-dominant/elevated -> dominant/tension -> tonic/resolution.

    I can see how the dim6 of the tonic creates interest and motion while providing a tonic wrapper (for lack of a better word). The dim6 a P4 above does a similar job to the sub-dominant. Adds a little tension. Something has move, something has changes. But it doesn’t NEED resolution. It can resolve to the tonic or go to an even higher sense of urgency.

    But here is where using dim6 my ear says, “nope. That ain’t it.” Is when I’m looking for that dominant tension from the last remaining dim6 scale. If things are moving fast, a single measure or two of the iio or biiio does the trick. They creat the tension that needs to be resolved home. But what if I want to extend the dominant tension for a measure or even more?

    What does BH do? Is that where the dom/dim or domb5/dim is used? Does BH venture into the min6/dim here? To keep it straight, let’s assume a major tonality.

    As usual, your help is always appreciated.


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  40. #639
    [QUOTE=rlrhett;910506

    But what if I want to extend the dominant tension for a measure or even more?

    What does BH do? Is that where the dom/dim or domb5/dim is used? Does BH venture into the min6/dim here? To keep it straight, let’s assume a major tonality.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro[/QUOTE]

    yeah, sounds like you already know the answer. You have two 7b5 dim scales for the ii dim, and two for the biii dim. you have 4 dom dim scales for the ii dim and 4 dom dim scales for the biii dim. You have the min 6 a half step above any of the doms mentioned previously. you have the min 6th dim a 5th above any of the dominants. You have a maj6 dim a whole step below the tonic of the scale for a dom 11 sound. You have the monk moves.

    these won't all work in every situation, but if something sounds great in every situation it is usually also the most boring choice.
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  41. #640

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    Thanks Joe. Of course now I see on page 37 of Alan's book where he goes from the sub-dominant dim6 to the dim6- for the dominant sound. I was so focused on the voice leading in that example I missed the underlying harmonic motion. I had painted myself into a corner making assumptions. That's why this is such a great resource!

    EDIT: I should add that I LOVE and constantly use the iiø to lead to the I^. Somehow I was missing that was the exact same move Alan was demonstrating.

  42. #641

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petimar View Post
    Im probably wrong here but hey that hasnt stopped me before

    I learned a lot of Charle Parker tunes and solos before I stumbled onto Barry Harris. What he teaches in 5 4 3 2, half step rules, pivoting, etc, is exactly what I saw in Parkers solos. It is a very organized way to practice to get it in your playing and it certainly has worked for me.

    Im not the biggest Bud fan, but when I hear him, I hear Birds language.
    Bud and bird were different. Sure they spoke the same language, but when you hear sonny Rollins play, or fats Navarro or Dexter do you think they are just playing birds language?

    Bud powell wasn't only doing incredible things with his right hand improvisation, but his left hand too and the combination of both.

    Bud Powell played similar phrases to bird, but you forget that bud helped push Bebop too, he was one of the piano players that really helped take it to the next level.

    If you really check out Bud's discography you'll hear how much of an influence classical music had in his playing too.

    I think a lot of times people forget that Charlie Parker wasnt the only musician who was there when Bebop was being innovated.

  43. #642

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    scale for
    | E-7b5 | A7 |

    A Bb C C# D E F G
    Last edited by rintincop; 11-22-2018 at 03:57 PM.

  44. #643

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop View Post
    I am surveying the Harris books for his descending scale form for
    | E-7b5 | A7 | (when ascending play C7 scale up and down but end on C#)

    Thus, ascending is with: C D E F G A Bb, then back down with: A G F E D C#

    Descending form just turns it upside down, BUT start higher on the D note (7th of E-7b5) so it lands on C# on beat 1.
    Thus , descending would be:
    D C Bb A G F E D | C# D E F G
    Cool that works nicely

    Btw have you noticed that if you take the one added note C dominant scale starting on the chord tone and raise the C to a C# you get the D minor sixth dim but starting on the dim tones - I also think of that scale as the Mel minor with an added note

    That raised note, C#, also belongs to the F maj 6 dim

  45. #644

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    Has anybody tried the Talk Jazz book by Roni Ben Hur?

    I saw an old thread, here: Anyone purchase Talk Jazz Guitar by Ron Ben Hur

    Where somebody just described it as a book of scales and that the description was totally different from the content. Is this true?

    Based on the description it looks similar to some of the stuff that's been shared in the "Things I've Learned from Barry Harris" videos, but in book form. Or like it'd be the perfect companion for Alan Kingston's book.

    Thanks!

  46. #645

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioxic View Post
    Has anybody tried the Talk Jazz book by Roni Ben Hur?
    Roni's book is excellent (make sure you get the Talk Jazz Guitar version which has suggested fingerings) and is one of the few jazz or guitar books that I've really dug into. I work on material from it in most practice sessions.

    Here's the table of contents (there are a couple of sample pages and audio previews at Welcome To Roni Ben-Hur's Website )

    Table of Contents


    Chapter 1: Half Step Rules for Major and Dominant 7 Scales
    • Major Scales With Added Half Steps
    • Dominant 7 Scales With Added Half Steps


    Chapter 2: The Arpeggios Study
    • What Are Arpeggios and Why We Practice Them
    • A Guide to Using the Arpeggios
    • The Major, Minor, Diminished, Flatted 5 and Augmented Arpeggios Inverted
    • In Two Octave


    Chapter 3: Surrounding Notes for the Major And Minor Arpeggios
    • How to Surround the Major and Minor Arpeggios
    • The Major Arpeggios with Surrounding Notes
    • The Minor Arpeggios with Surrounding Notes


    Chapter 4: The Diminished
    • The Diminished Chord and Diminished Runs
    • The Diminished Chord with the Maj7
    • All the Diminished Chords on Your Instrument


    Chapter 5: Surrounding Notes for the Minor and Major 6 Chords
    • How We Surround The Minor and Major 6 Chords
    • Surrounding the Minor 6 Chord
    • Surrounding the Major 6 Chord


    Chapter 6: The Minor and Major 6 Diminished Scales
    • What are the Minor and Major 6 Diminished Scales
    • The Minor 6 Diminished Scale Exercise
    • The Major 6 Diminished Scale Exercise


    Chapter 7: The Dominant 7 Scale
    • The role and character of the Dominant 7 Scale
    • The Dominant 7 Scale Exercise


    Chapter 8: The Augmented Chord and the Whole Tone Scale
    • What is it and How is it Used
    • The Whole Tone Scale Exercise


    Chapter 9: I6/II7/V7 Turnaround Using Diminished Chords
    • A Description of the Turnaround
    • The Turnaround in Minor Keys
    • The Turnaround in Major Keys


    Chapter 10: The Major and Minor Arpeggios and Their Inversions
    • The Major Arpeggios
    • The Minor Arpeggios

    London Jazz Guitar Society:
    www.meetup.com/londonjazzguitarsociety
    LJGS on Twitter: www.twitter.com/LDNJazzGuitar

  47. #646
    here’s a great example of how Barry’s harmonic ideas are NOT JUST 6dim scales. there’s so many other things

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    My Youtube

  48. #647

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    Just came to me, and it might have been obvious to you guys already but it was a lightbulb moment for me. Barry emphasises playing with family. What I noticed was with the 6th diminished scales. If we take F, Ab, B and D, which we know are family. They are all connected by the same diminished chord in the scale.

  49. #648

    User Info Menu

    Yes I think that 'goes with the territory' since the 'family' are all a minor 3rd apart, so their related dim chords are also a min3 apart, hence they are all effectively the same dim chord. In fact this might be one of the given reasons why they are 'family' in the first place, can't exactly remember the details though. Alan's book has a section on all this.

  50. #649
    Osmond, here is a similar concept: the dominant chord shapes in relation to the diminished shape they stem from remain the same, but the actual chord will be different depending on the position.

    So, on any dim chord play a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd inversion 7th chord with the same lowest note as the dim chord. Play a root position dom chord a half step below.

    So whether I'm on a dim on the 2, 4, b6, or 7 the dominant shapes look the exact same. Then there's two 7 b5 chords possible from the dim, and those shapes are always the same too.

    Do it on biii dim, it looks the exact same.

    That was a light bulb for me
    White belt
    My Youtube

  51. #650

    User Info Menu

    for G-7b5 C7b9
    Last edited by rintincop; 12-14-2018 at 01:38 PM.